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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kilkenny => Topic started by: genesearch1 on Monday 21 November 11 20:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi there,
I am researching my family lineage.
I found a birth cert of John Rainsford in 1736 in St Mary's Church Kilkenny. This is a Church of Ireland record.
His father was Edward Rainsford Esq.
Any information regarding him would be appreciated.
I also found a Marriage Cert of Isabella Rainsford married John Moffitt of Rathkealey Kilkenny in 1750
Isabella Rainsford is from Three Castles Kilkenny, about 2 miles NW of Freshford and Durrow North Kilkenny.
I believe this Isabella Rainsford is probably John Rainsford's older sister, as Johh would have been 14 in 1750.
Any information regarding Edward Rainsford born I guess (1700 - 1710 ) making him 26 - 36 years old in 1736 when his son John Rainsford was born
OR
Isabella Rainsford i'm guessing born ( 1728 - 1730 ) making her 20 or 22 years old when she married in 1750 , would be appreciated.
Kind Regards
Genesearch1.
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Notes and queries: Volumes 158-159; Volumes 158-159
books.google.ie
William White, William White - 1930 - Snippet view unfortunately, you'll have to go to a library.
Will of Edward Rainsford, dated 1743, mentions his wife Margaret, his son Edward, his youngest son Robert, his eldest daughter Isabella and youngest daughter Martka. His Executors were John Ball Esquire of Three Castles, Kilkenny.......
There are abstracts of various Rainsford wills in this book.
see also:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0hen/
The Rainsford family by Emily A. Buckland
also snipett view.
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Hi Pastmagic,
WOW that was quick !!
It seems to be him ok.
As on Johns birth cert on 1736, it had his mother also down and it is Margaret.
Also Isabella was living in Three Castles, Kilkenny. This is about 2 miles NW of Castlecomer.
So it all seems to be linked up !!
Thank you soo much for that !!
You truly live up to you name - Magic !!
Thank you again.
Genesearch1
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John BALL (1702-1764) of Three Castles, Co. Kilkenny was a son of John BALL and Elizabeth COOTE. SOURCE: Rev. William Ball Wright, Ball Family Records: Genealogical Memoirs of some Ball Families of Great Britain, Ireland and America, Yorkshire Printing Co., Ltd. 1908......
In 1737 John Ball was High Sheriff of the Co. Kilkenny and Capt. in the Militia. He married, secondly, on 7th May, 1760, Mrs. Margaret Rainsford, widow, of St. Ann's Parish, Dublin. He died Sept., 1764, at South. Frederick Str., Dublin, aged 62; his will was proved by his daughter, Dorothea Margaret, wife of Richard Shenton.
From:
http://www.thesilverbowl.com/documents/1730Feb23-BALL-JACKSON.html
Think from what i can extract from the snippet views of the two books above, it leads to Edward R ESQ being brother of the Dublin Lord Mayor of the time.
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Hi PastMagic,
As ever you have been astounding !!
The Lord Mayor at the time of 1701 is Sir Mark Rainsford and its in Dublin this time !!
So this Edward Rainsford must be his son, and somehow moved to Kilkenny as the marriage shows links down there.
Thanks again, amazed as always.
Genesearch1
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According to Buckland, Edward Rainford d. 1743, is the son of Mark and brother of Sir Marcus.
I think you will have to work this out generation by generation. It would probably be worth trying to get hold of this book, because it may help you do that.
The other executor apart from Ball, appears to be his own son Edward Rainsford of Dublin.
Its odd that there is no John in the list of children?
PM
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Hi Pastmagic,
I will get a copy of that book you mentioned Emily Buckland.
It is VERY odd there is no mention of John , despite I finding a baptism from 1733 with Edward Rainsford Esq on it.
I will go have to do a bit more research on this !!
Either way it all seems to add up, the location in North Kilkenny etc leads to the right areas.
On that baptism it does mention both Margaret his wife, and the ESQ bit, and also John Ball !!
So it must be correct on this one !!
Still I will do my bit to find out more !!
Thanks again, you have been incredibly helpful the BEST Ever !!
Kind Regards
Genesearch1
Moderator Note : Image removed - please transcribe any details.
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There is something odd about that, a transcription error maybe? It might be worth giving them a ring, or tracking down the original register. - I expect the sponsor was John Ball, not the child? It needs checking out! I have had a couple of mistranscriptions from rootsireland myself. Also there may be a second sponsor they have left out, if there is an error.
Or possibly the child is John Ball Rainsford.
PM
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Hi Pastmagic
Absolutely, it is a typed error.
The Sponsor has got to be John Ball
The Father is down as Esq, however it does specify Father.
Its the only way it can be !! Remember it is 1736 so they usually mispell it etc
I've had a few errors from them also.
I will go to Registry of Deeds or National Archives to sort out the Wills of Edward Rainsford Esq
to try and find out why John was not on this deed.
I will have to find out if he is on other ones to further prove a connection.
Thanks again you have been absolutely SUPERB !!!
Thank you
Genesearch1
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National Library has a copy of the book, it has a Chapter called the Rainfords of Ireland. - this is where I found Edwards will, and the Ball connection. Might be worth trying that first.
The Rainsford family /
with sidelights on Shakespeare, Southampton, Hall and Hart, embracing 1000 years of the Rainsford family and their successive partakings in the main lines of national life.
Main Author: Buckland, Emily A.
Published: Worcester : Philips & Probert, ltd., The Caxton press, [1932].
Physical description: 9-337 p : ill., ports., facsims. ; 22 cm.
I'm sure you will enjoy all 400 pages :)
PM
Call Number View in Collection
7A 1209 Main Reading Room Books
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Hi Pastmagic
Will do and find out more from it !
Again thank you sooo much. You have been astounding help !!
Kind Regards
Genesearch1
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Hi Pastmagic,
I went to National library in Kildare St and got a copy of the Emily Buckland book.
The Will of Edward Rainsford Esq 1743 did not mention a son John. Just what you sent yesterday.
However I did get a picture of Sir Mark Rainsford the Mayor of Dublin and Francis Rainsford the daughter of Edward from this book.
I also photocopied out a few pages from 'The Rainsford's in Ireland'.
Somehow I have to find a link to John Rainsford born 1736 to Jonathan or John Rainsford in Clashduff Kilkenny.
This is proving difficult. Any suggestions ??
Kind Regards
Genesearch1
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Hi Pastmagic,
just an update on the John Ransford Record.
As you see from below not much has changed, and the record does seem to be damaged.
Dear Mr. Rainsford. The St. Mary Kilkenny record for that period is very fragile and is not usable . However because you had a specific date the Archivist has looked at the records and we did find an entry on that date for a baptism of a John Ransford son of Edward Ransford Esq. and his wife Margaret.
The Odagh records baptism 1825-1878, marriages 1827-1869 and burials 1824-1869 were all destroyed in the fire in 1922 and we don’t have anything for the dates you are looking for Regards
RCB Library
Breamor Park
Churchtown
Dublin 14
However today in the Registry of Deeds I found a Joseph Michael Rainsford in 1791 and 1792.
The Deed says on 30 - Aug - 1791 a Joseph Michael Rainsford City of Dublin GENT and one ' Broderick' City of Dublin sold lands in Kilkenny. Deed says "All the Land lying and being in the County of Kilkenny.
Plantation Acres are -- Sandfordscourt - 271 Plantation Acres
Carigeen - 380
Coolbricken - 7 Acres
Tullaroan - 38 Acres
A google maps search shows Sandfordscourt, Carigeen and Coolbricken approx 5 miles NE of Kilkenny City.
Tullaroan is approx 4 miles East of Kilkenny City.
Other Names on Deed are -
On First Part - Joseph Michael Rainsford Gent City of Dublin
- Rev John Broderick
- Rev Lawrence Brook ..( I thinks says Doctor ) - very hard to read.
I have ordered a copy of the Deed but will not have it until next week.
On 2nd part - James Archdeacon of City of Kilkenny Esquire.
On 3rd Part = this details the Acres and location 4 miles East and West of Kilkenny City.
What does it all mean ?
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I'm thinking this Joseph Michael Rainsford sells off the Kilkenny Plantation Acres.
However my lineage stays in Castlecomer, and I presume both George and Jonathan ( John ) are born Catholics. So they can not own land.
So by the time they marry in 1814 etc they have just 3 Acres of Land and a House as they are Catholics.
Any help would be appreciated.
Kind Regards
Genesearch1
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This may be significant to your research. My ancestor, John Ransford (sometimes recorded as Rainsford), married a woman from Athy, Co. Kildare in 1761 (Catholic Church). As there are no other Rainsfords in the Athy church records at that time, I assume he arrived in Athy, married this lady and continued to live there. His children were: Mary Ransford, John Ransford, Edward Ransford, James Ransford, James Ransford? and Michael Ransford. I am directly descended from John and I live in Athy. I have been looking for information on the original John for many years, without success.
PS I have a digital copy of the Buckland book, if you are interested.
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Hi there,
I have not found anything more for you, so hope this new contribution proves fruitful!
PM
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Hi Drofsniar,
That is amazing you have found it back to 1760 and to Athy Kildare !
The John Ransford I found on the Baptism for Edward Rainsford Esq and Margaret in St Mary's Kilkenny, I think may have been transcribed wrong.
Today I got an email from the RCB in Braemore Park , Dublin 14.
I asked them to clarify this John Ransford.
An Archivist and the Assistant Librarian checked it ONLY because I had a Date - 17 - Oct - 1736.
They confirmed more or less that the CHILD was given as a John Ball.
However this John Ball is also the Sponsor. He happened to be the Sherrif of Kilkenny at the time.
So the Name was not recorded at all !!
The Irishroots.ie website transcribed it as John Ransford ! I emailed them and they assumed the John Ball was meant to be John Ransford.
So this leaves me without a Name for Edward Ransford Esq and Margaret.
I got the email from the RCB Representative Church Body today !
Dear Mr. Rainsford. The St. Mary Kilkenny record for that period is very fragile and is not usable . However because you had a specific date the Archivist has looked at the records and we did find an entry on that date for a baptism of a John Ball son of Edward Ransford Esq. and his wife Margaret.
The Odagh records baptism 1825-1878, marriages 1827-1869 and burials 1824-1869 were all destroyed in the fire in 1922 and we don’t have anything for the dates you are looking for Regards
RCB Library
Breamor Park
Churchtown
Dublin 14
As you see not much to go on, to determine if it really is John Ransford.
I will be trying to find out more about the Athy Kildare Rainsford's. I am VERY interested in the Catholic Rainsford's especially from 1760 onwards.
I 'm not sure when my ancestors became Catholic, however I do have a Marriage from 8 Feb 1814, my GG Gfather married Elizabeth Price in Muckalee Castlecomer then.
His brother John Ransford baptised his daughter Mary Ransford a year before in Clashduff Kilkenny on 20 Feb 1813.
Linking this up has proven difficult and more twists and turns than I ever imagined.
I'm sure that I will find the answer somehow.
Is there any way you can send me a brief history of your ancestral links in Athy Kildare from 1760 to 1814 ??
I could look at the births and use google maps to try and find various nearby locations that might give me further clues to my links !!
Kind Regards
Genesearch1
PS - Yes I am interested in a digital copy of the Buckland Book.
I had a look at it briefly in the National Archives in Kildare St, in the Reading Room last week.
If you could send it on I would greatly appreciate that.
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Happy New Year, All! It is still 2011 here in the U.S.
I have read the posts on this thread with great interest as my great-grandmother was Bridget Rainsford born 1828 in Castlecomer, Kilkenny, according to UK censuses and family records.
She married Joseph Thompson (born Shrewsbury, Shropshire) in Ireland. Their first child, Mary Elizabeth Thompson, was baptized 5 Sept. 1850 in Dublin. They were Catholic.
I have searched through LDS microfilm and elsewhere for some time and have not found any birth record for Bridget.
Unfortunately, I will not be able to research in Ireland anytime soon.
I would appreciate any help you can give me to find Bridget in Castlecomer. Thank you.
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Hi there,
try 'rootsireland.ie' - its an Irish online site that shows BMD's ( Birth Marriages and Deaths ).
This was superb for me when tracing my roots.
Have u tried using familysearch.org ? This is a site made by the LDS and it is extremely good also.
What I have found !!
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My advice is to use these sites, there are quiet a few Bridget Rainsford.
Regards my line, I would have to be a Bridget Rainsford daughter born of George Rainsford and Elizabeth Price.
My research has taken me all over the place, so this would have to be the one for you to find also.
I will do a look around for you, but you will have to give me a few days or a few weeks.
Hope what I have sent you will help you along.
Kind Regards
Genesearch1.
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What a wonderful surprise that you would take the time on a holiday to start off my new year with such a boon. Thank you firstly for your kindness and secondly for the suggestions. Yes, there are a number of Bridget Rainsfords and a variety of spellings of the last name. What I appear to need is a "missing link," either a person or an event that will reveal her origins. You are right that I need to widen my horizons to other areas. I may have been looking for Bridget in all the wrong places.
I will continue seeking a birth and marriage record for her and return to some places I have searched before as well as trying new places you have suggested.
I was wondering where you found the list that you included in the post, please.
Thank you, again, for your thoughtfulness. I hope to hear of anything else you may find as the new year progresses. In turn, I hope you may find the connections that you are seeking.
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That list looks like it's a summary of results for Bridget Rainsford baptisms from the RootsIreland website between about 1820 and 1850.
Shane
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Thank you very much, Shane. And particular thanks for answering on a holiday. As a newcomer to this website, I am indeed impressed by the helpfulness of the members and forum leaders here.
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Hi Everyone,
I've done some work on the Joseph Michael Rainsford and those Plantation Acres In Kilkenny.
UPDATE
It turns out these Plantations were from an earlier Plantation from Ulster.
Namely Presbyterians from Scotland.
Joseph Michael Rainsford Descent
***************************
This Joseph Michael Rainsford is descended from a Michael Rainsford from Blessington Co. Wicklow.
Michael Rainsford was a GUNSMITH and some various businesses in Dublin City circa 1750's.
OUTCOME
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I think I have finally cracked the lineage to this Michael Rainsford.
However there were MANY Rainsford's coming and going from Kiltegan Wicklow, Hacketstown in Wicklow
and from Carlow.
These were constantly moving back and forth from Kilkenny and Queen's County now Co. Laois and Athy Kildare.
I suspect my lineage comes from Wicklow and more specifically the Kiltegan Rainsford's.
Thank you to all for your support.
There were many red herrings and badly Transcribed BMD's from various websites.
I got a lot of help from Archivists in Dublin City over the last 3 months.
Take Care all.
Genesearch1
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Congratulations on finding out more about your Rainsford ancestor! You have also given me some other places to look for my ancestor, Bridget Rainsford. On an England/Wales census, she said she was born in 1828 in Castlecomer, Kilkenny, but perhaps she was mistaken or misremembered....or was deliberately misleading the census taker!
So I will look for her in the other places that you mentioned that you found Rainsfords. She left Ireland before the beginning of civil registration, so I'm somewhat limited. But hope springs eternal.
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I found this query from 2005 - i was wondering if it has any relevance to your Bridget Rainsford.
Classification: Query
Edited: 24 Nov 2005 4:35PM
Surnames: Rainsford, Thompson, Stone, Allcock, Spiers
Bridget Rainsford born Dublin or Castlecomer in 1831 or 1828.
She married Joseph Thompson, had a baby in Dublin in 1852, and moved to England by 1856.
Surnames that marry into the Thompson family are Stone, Allcock and Spiers.
Has anyone run across Bridget and her kin?
Thank you.
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Can u tell me any information on far you have got with any brothers and sisters she may have had around 1850's etc. She would have been 22 then right??
Here's how u can do this:
Go to rootsireland.ie
You can conduct searches for these years say 1850 and press +or - 20 years.
A whole list will display.
Then unfortunately you have to pay, via visa card to view the records.
NOTE - I just checked their website and they have upgrade it just TODAY of all days.
I have found 3 marriages from Castlecomer :
1 Marriage : 29-OCT-1848 Elizabeth "Betty" Rainsford to John Brennan.
2 Marriage: 6-FEB-1841 Catherine Rainsford to Thomas Purcell.
3 Marriage : 3 -FEB -1860 Mary Rainsford to Brian Doyle.
The reason I asked do you know if Bridget had any brothers and sisters because you could find out
if any of the above are related to her.
Then use that to see if the siblings can lead you to a Father or Mother.
Hope this helps u along the way !!
Genesearch1
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Yes, that is my post! I don't remember where, perhaps RootsWeb. Bridget is the "mystery woman" on my family tree so far. Her first child was born in Dublin, the rest in England.
I do not know any of her siblings, if any. I have gone through LDS microfilm and the recommended census replacement sources to no avail. I have not found her marriage to Joseph Thompson. I did find a baptism for Mary Elizabeth Thompson with the father as Joseph Thompson in 1850 in Dublin, which may be Joseph and Bridget's first child as the name is correct and the date possible.
There is also the possibility that Bridget was born in Dublin as on one England/Wales census in later years she states that she was born there in 1831. However, she was in her 60s at the time and I think the earlier data would have been the more accurate. Also, a child may have given the later data.
I understand there were Rainsfords in the fishing tackle business in Dublin and wonder if Bridget could have been one of them as she worked for Allcock's Fishing Tackle Company, tying fishing flies at home in Redditch around 1871-1881.
As for the Irish websites, I can understand that organizations that provide Irish records need to charge for their services. But I have so little background information that, for me, it could get beyond my funds very quickly.
I'll surely keep the information on the marriages that you so kindly looked up and provided. Perhaps it's possible I will find her with one of the Rainsford women you shared. If you are out any funds in looking up the three marriages, I'd very much like to reimburse you.
Thank you for your kindness.
Regards,
Bobbi L
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Hi Bobbi,
First don't worry about reinburshing me for anything !!
I'm sure there is a way of finding it out.
The rootsireland.ie website uploads these records as they find them.
Regards the Baptism of Bridget Rainsford in 1829
It is an ongoing thing, so it really depends on when they find it and upload it. !
The Baptism will have the Fathers name on it.
2 - Also you can email the Kilkenny Genealogy Society.
I will send u the email in a private message.
Conclusion
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I think your closer to finding the answer !!
The reason being that I found one on their webiste from 1750 only last dec so it's only a matter of time.
genesearch
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Thank you for your graciousness regarding your search on the website. I appreciate your time and effort and any cost you incurred.
Just an fyi, Bridget's birth year according to the census was 1828.
I have searched LDS microfilm of a church in Castlecomer, I forget which one, and it had records way back. Unfortunately, the records for 1928 were partially destroyed and missing from the photos on the microfilm. Either water damage or general deterioration had destroyed part of the records for the year 1928. I did look through the whole film, just in case something might be there. Just my luck that the year I wanted was badly damaged. However, there may be other church records than that one, and I shall make the suggested contacts.
Many thanks for your suggestions and your encouragement. Those Rainsfords sure do like to hide.
Bobbi L
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Hey :) there!
I am guessing this is Ransfords Gelnmagoo Firoda, I may have missing piece for your jigsaw? house in corner of big field, I know exactly where you are asking about? Feel free to [email] me to * We will chat a bit and see where this leads you. I would love to sort this ongoing saga for you.
Kind regards
Bet
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to protect against spamming and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Edward appears to have married Margaret Shaw in about 1719. After his death Margaret and John Ball are named as guardians of his eldest son Edward, a minor - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ4-9W2T?i=16&cat=185720.