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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: martytriple on Wednesday 23 November 11 17:11 GMT (UK)
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My Grandfather Reginald Elliot was in the Strood Poor Law Union around 1902-1904 and attended St Nicholas School.
I kindly received some information from Medway Archives but did not answer my dilemma.
He was born abt 1897, I can find him in the 1911 census in the Farningham Home for Little boys in South Darenth. He was there 1904- 1914, but cannot find him in 1901 assumiing he would be with his brother Herbert.
His brother Herbert b abt 1894 was in the home with him for some time but is in Wales in the 1911 census. This from Reginalds WW1 records.
Reginalds father is stated as Frederick William Elliot on his marriage cert and is a Rancher. I have found him in the 1901 census and censuses in Alberta Canada and have traced his ancestors and a ton of other information no problem BUT I cannot find Reginalds birth records or any other link to Frederick William. Maybe he was born abroad, his supposed father travelled back and forth from Canada a few times.
Does anyone have any experience of searching the Poor Law Union records for Strood around this period ?
I do not want to make a journey from Yorkshire to do the search if the information available is sketchy.
Any other suggestions will be welcome I have been on this for several years now with only the Farningham home and PLU coming to light in the last year or so, but alas I am at a dead end again.
PS I have full access to Ancestry but have come up with no more as yet.
Marty
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hi marty
have a look in www.workhouses.org.uk on home page click onworkhouse locations then click poor law union maps click south east and look for strood it,s just below gravesend from there you can see pics of the workhouse and apparently what records exist are with medway archives and local studies there is a link so you can get in touch with them from there .
regards
trevor
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ps
forget my other post i must have gotten over excited seeing as i,ve told you what you already know .
have you any idea when frederick went to canada or even if either of the boys went as well .
regards
trevor
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
http://www.ancestorsonboard.com/HomePageController.action
The above website has an entry for a Reginald Elliott b 1897 leaving Glasgow for Montreal in 1922 and another entry b 1897 leaving Southampton for Montreal in 1936
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I hope you don't mind me asking but where is Frederick in 1901?
Regards,
Daisy
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Hi Daisy
Initial post says Alberta Canada for 1901
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CarolW
Reginald stayed in England, I have found no evidence of him going abroad, although he may have come from abroad.
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Daisypetal
Frederick was in Portsea as a visitor to his cousin in 1901
He is also found in the 1901 Alberta census. They are definitely the same person, too long a list to write down the providence.
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Frederick was in Portsea as a visitor to his cousin in 1901
Aged 25 born Notts occ wheelsmith and shown as married - do you know who to
Assuming he was also Herberts father - that makes him about 18 when Herbert was born
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I wonder if ...........
Marriages June qtr 1894
Frederick William Elliott Strood 2a 817
Florence Annie Hartup
Births March qtr 1872
Florence Annie Hartup North Aylesford 2a 435
Just found the above couple on the 1901 census - no sons Herbert & Reginald
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I think the 1901 in Portsmouth shows Frederick as a Whitesmith.
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Thanks to everyone for their help.
Daisy, Frederick is in Portswood in 1901 as a Rancher visiting Claude Le Quesne.
I have plenty of info on him and his ancestors, I'm just looking for Reginalds birth cert etc as proof.
Also back to my original question I wanted to know if anyone had any experience of searching the Medway archives for Strood Poor Law Union around 1904 - 1911
I may put a post on the Kent Section of the forum
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Oh, Portswood not Portsea, very different places to one who comes from Hampshire area :)
In both the 1901 censuses Frederick says he is single, so do you think Herbert and Reginald were born out of wedlock? If so they could be registered under their mother's name, she could have married by 1901 and they could be under the new husbands name.
Just out of curiousity, is 'your' Frederick the one married to Pauline Beatrice HOLZMAN in 1904? If so do you have their marriage cert. to see if it shows Frederick as a widower or bachelor.
If this is the right couple it seem strange that they have a son called Reginald aged:5 in 1911.
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Daisypetal
Yes I put the wrong place initially !!. Apologies
Looks like you have gone down a number of the avenues (cul de sacs) I have.
Yes Frederick did marry Pauline Holzman and they went back to Canada in 1904. I havn't got his marriage cert.
The main problem is on my Grandfathers marriage cert he states that his father was Frederick William and was a rancher which fits in with the 1901 census. The marriage cert also says Frederick is deceased when I know he died later than this (1919)
I've also been in touch with the Wellington College where Frederick studied and they know of no marriage prior to Pauline Holtxman but have confirmed a number of ancestors.
This is why I'm reluctant to make any assumptions.
Oh one thing I've been a bit slack with Reginalds full name was Reginald Patrick Tarleton Elliot, on his marriage cert, Reginald Patrick on his WW1 record and just Reginald on the Farningham Homes record.
So really that's why I need to know how good the Strood PLU records are for 1904-1911.
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Did Herbert have any middle names?
I'm sure you've already looked at Cityark for Herbert and Reginald's christenings, but just in case :)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bl/
It might be quite a trawl as they could have a different surname.
If you haven't used Cityark before be aware that there are two pages of christening on each link (horizontal). I didn't notice this when I first searched for someone there :-[ it was hours before I realised my mistake ::) :)
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Don't know of any middle names for Herbert.
I've spent hours on City Ark trawling through parish records. I knew there were two pages on each view.
Perhaps they were not from Kent at all, but my Grandfather had a Kentish accent according to my father.
Found Frederick's marriage to Pauline in West Yorkshire and he was down as a batchelor.
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Marty,
Cousin P here. I have news of the Strood Union Workhouse from Medway Records. Alas it is little help. Grand-Father was placed here by a Mrs Elliot (not Frederick William). Not sure if Herbert was admitted at the same time.
I have posted the Boy's Home in St Peters, Westminster to see if I can obtain a copy of Reginald's entry into here. Seems he checked in and out of Farningham Little Boys Home in Sept 14 but was re-admitted in Nov 14, then was placed with an American Repair Co in Edgeware Rd (you probably have this info, nonetheless, it may assist.
Regards
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Thanks for contacting me, I have PM'd you
Cheers
Martyn
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Hi
Indeed you are correct Pete here. Just had a reply from Westminster Achieves. Alas, the address of the Westminster Boys Home of 26 Gr St Peter St was inaccurate as 26 relates to the CofE Church. A friend of mine is in Kew today and she is hoping to obtain a copy from Grandfather's WW1 release/discharge papers from mircofiche as opposed to the on-line version available. From memory there is more on the mircofiche record.
Seems Herbert joined the Army at age 17.
Again cannot find Birth Records for either Herbert of Reginald in Canada..
I did find a Herbert Elliot from the London Regt on the memorial wall at Tyne-Cot cemetery in Ypres. Not sure if this is a runner that i have yet to progress.
Looks like you are right with your Canadian hunch.
Suspect you have already established that Paul Hotzman's parents were immigrant's from Germany 1860's think 1862. Looks like they were German Jews.
Not sure how far you have managed with Canadian archives.
Before Mum was overcome by memory loss, she did allude to the fact that Reginald's Mother's maiden first name was Carmeletta. Surname unknown.
I've often felt I was just one piece of information from actually nailing this part of the family history. Yet at every turn I have been foiled.
Keep in touch.
Pete
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I keep looking at this .......... wanting to try and help :-\
So, we are looking for a Reginald Patrick Tarleton ELLIOTT died in the Bath district 1957 age 59 so born between Oct 1897 and Oct 1898 if the age is correct. He married in the Bath district 1919 so I agree that the WW1 service record for Reginald Patrick ELLIOTT is most likely his as it gives addresses in Bath on discharge. 27 Mar 1917 Reginald Patrick ELLIOTT gives his age as 19 years thus born between March 1897 and March 1898.
May I ask just what information you had on Reginald Patrick before you started researching? Is the sole source of Reginald Patrick's father being Frederick William ELLIOTT, a rancher, from his marriage certificate? If so, could this be a total red herring? If Reginald had been "in care" from a very young age there is every possibility that he may not have exactly known the correct details about his father?
Was there any word of Reginald having any siblings before mention of brother Herbert ELLIOTT was found on his WW1 record?
Have you had any luck with the records for the Farningham Home for Little Boys? How did you know he was in the Strood Union?
Sorry so many questions but just trying to get a clearer picture and to separate the known facts from the many possibles.
Casalguidi :)
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Casalguidi
Thanks for showing so much interest.
Most of what you have said is correct.
The only mention of Frederick William Elliot Rancher is on the marriage certificate therefore that is why I am so reluctant to take this as granted as you say could be a complete red herring. I have researched F W Elliot and have found no other connections in reverse so to speak. I have a lot of info on him and his family.
The Farningham home records I have show him as coming from the Strood Union Workhouse, there are no other details of parents etc. Yes Herbert was only mentioned in his WW1 records as next of kin, but the Farningham Home records do show a Herbert Elliot being admitted on the same day, so again this is a reasonable assumption that they are brothers.
One other assumption I have made based on the WW1 record and knowing what RPT Elliot did was that this is him in the Farningham Home. He was a shoemaker ( the home record shows he worked in shoe making twice duing his stay). He was a very accomplished band instrument player and was the band master later in life for the Boys Brigade in Bath. He was also an accomplished artist. All of these attributes are typical of boys who were in the Home.
So that's where we are at the moment, no birth certificate and nothing found in the 1901 census so far.
Martyn
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Sorry one other piece of useful info is that both Reginald and Herbert were in St Nicholas School (Herbert for for 2 years 3 mths and Reginald 2 years) whilst in the Strood Workhouse.
They were admitted to Farningham Home on 27th July 1904, so they would probably not be on the 1901 census in the Strood Workhouse.
Herbert left the home on 21 June 1909 to a farm in West Wales, I have confirmed this on the 1911 census, but not traced him beyond that.
Martyn
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Ok, so I might be throwing a spanner in the works here or it may be completely a different family but I've found a family with a Reginald and Bertie (Herbert?) of the right age in the right area and I can't elimate them.
1901 High Street, Upnor, Frindsbury
Frederick BANKS head mar 34 cement lab b.Notting Hill London
Catherine wife 20 b.Rochester Kent
Frederick son 10 b.Strood
Bertie son 8 b.Strood
Minnie dau 6 b.Greenwich
Reginald son 3 b.Greenwich
John son 3m b.Upnor
RG13/719 folio 106 page 5
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Frederick senior appears to be in Rushenden/Sheerness, Minster, Sheppey for the 1911 census with children John (as above) and two further children ............ Walter and Felix. Frederick age 41 b.Enston (sic)? London, Walter 6 b.Frindsbury, Felix 2 b.Frindsbury, John 10. See the free indexes at http://www.familysearch.org and http://www.1911census.co.uk/
It appears to be quite a fractured family with a number of possible wives/mother:
1) Frederick Valentine BANKS baptised bp 14 Jul 1892 Strood son of Frederick Valentine and Eliza. He appears to die 1973 Liverpool (birth date given as 2 Jul 1892) and birth registered as Frederick Valentine BANKS.
2) Bertie ............. possible birth registration Herbert William BANKS June quarter 1894 Strood?
3) Minnie .............. possible birth registration Minnie Fay BANKS June quarter 1895 Greenwich?
4) Reginald Alfred BANKS baptised Christ Church, East Greenwich 31 March 1898 son of Frederick Valentine BANKS and Minnie.
5) John ............ possible birth registration John Henry V BANKS March quarter 1901 Strood? Possibly marries Elizabeth G TUCKER 1924 Wiltshire and died 1988 Somerset (birth given as 16 Dec 1900).
6) Walter ............ possible birth registration Walter George R BANKS December quarter 1905 Strood. Married Edna P BRITTENDEN 1928 Sheppey and possibly died 1947 Battle registration district.
7) Felix .............. possible birth registration Felix Alexander BANKS September quarter 1908 Strood. Married Nellie BARBER 1934 Medway and died 2002 Medway (birth given as 6 Jul 1908)
A Frederick V BANKS dies on Sheppey 1912 age 43 but I couldn't see him in the transcript of the Half Way Cemetery http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~penney/cemetary/cemetary.htm
He Looks to have married Catherine UPTON in the December quarter 1901 Medway district but I couldn't immediately see a marriage in the registers for Chatham/Gillingham/Rochester etc. on Medway Cityark.
Like I said, it may be nothing but I would maybe like to eliminate this family as the children Bertie (Herbert?) and Reginald aren't readily identifiable after the 1901 census ....... and it's the nearest I can find at present :-\
Casalguidi :-\
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Thanks again.
I need to absorb all this but I did contact Medway Archives about the Strood Workhouse some time ago and received this which may put further light on things with another pair of eyes. Hopefully.
Quote
1902 March 6th Bertie Elliott age 9 born 1893 from Strood Intra
1902 March 6th Minnie Elliott age 6 born 1896 from Strood Intra
I'm assuming Bertie and Minnie are related as their names are together in the register, but there are no parents names with them or any other information in the admission register to give further information regarding their situation. This is the only Elliott with a name close to Herbert that I could find, in fact during the time span you are interested in I could only find 3 individuals with the surname Elliott, of course Bertie may not be the person you are looking for, he may not have been sent to the workhouse. I did however find an individual called Reginald, so I assume this is the person you are researching;
1902 Aug 11 Reginald Elliott age 4 born 1898 from Strood Intra.
The three names were listed at the end of the register with everyone else still resident in the workhouse one year later. I went to the end of the register and did not find evidence of them being discharged, I hope this helps you with your research,
Unquote
Martyn
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Hmmmm ............. very interesting! So the three BANKS children that I can't follow forward are "Bertie", Minnie and Reginald. Three children with the same forenames and ages are admitted to the Strood Union in 1902 with the surname ELLIOTT. It would be very coincidental that there are three siblings with these correct forenames and ages in the same area at the same time wouldn't it ???
Casalguidi :)
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Yes , my thoughts at the moment are that they had possibly been living with an Elliot family prior to going to the Workhouse as my cousin stated in an earlier post that they were placed there by a Mrs Elliot so it could have been assumed they were Elliots also !!
Martyn
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It doesn't look like they were left on a temporary basis with so little information given does it? Bertie, at 9, would have been old enough to know his surname I would have thought though? I wonder where Frederick Valentine b1892 was at that time then ......... interesting that he kept his own surname too. Lots of mystery!
I think the BANKS' are definitely worth investigating further for the minute then. This looks like it could be Frederick senior in 1891:
1891 5 Ruby's Place, Rochester St Nicholas, Kent
Frederick BANKS head mar 23 cement lab b.Dalston London
Eliza wife 22 b.Chatham Kent
RG12/656 folio 42 page 16.
I did note that Felix lived to a grand old age ............... wouldn't it be wonderful if his family could shed some light on his older siblings if, of course, he was actually aware of their existance?
Just hope I'm not sending you down a blind alley ;D
Casalguidi :)
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No further clues but Herbert William BANKS bp Strood St Nicholas 8 Apr 1894 son of Frederick and Minnie of 2 Lloyds Yard, High Street - labourer http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lde/
Casalguidi :)
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Casalguidi
I will look at the Banks family, I have experience of the Medway on line achives bit labourious but worth taking your advice to see what pops up. Could take a while.
Martyn
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All,
Interesting: an Eliza Collins (nee Elliot) deposited both Minnie & Burtie into the Strood, ie Union Poor House. Eliza had a sister, also named Millie Elliot!
Both Frederick Banks and George Collins (Eliza'a spouse) were cement workers. This might explain Reginald's appearance in the Workhouse, later than Minnie & Burtie, deposited by a Mrs Elliot (sub-defuge perhaps)?
My friend who is helping me with my end of the search thinks that maybe a copy of Reginald Alfred Banks Birth Certificate might illuminate further?
Regards
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Peter
Do you have any info on where the Collins / Elliots lived etc as I can't track anything through on the censuses with any conviction.
I also can't find anything on the BMD's which is convincing.
Martyn
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I did see this Minnie ELLIOTT but couldn't see anything to connect her. However, if it is definitely Eliza Matilda COLLINS nee ELLIOTT who took Bertie and Minnie to the Union then ..........
Martyn, search for Minnie ELLIOTT age 6 born Ireland in the 1881 census of Higham (she is a visitor in Strood born Limerick 1891) - parents William John ELLIOTT and Elizabeth Theodosia HALL - her baptism can be found on the IGI. RG11/880 folio 51 page 10 for 1881.
Minnie would be the sister to Eliza M(atilda) ELLIOTT m George A COLLINS ........... Eliza M COLLINS age 30 born Scotland in Strood 1901 census RG13/720 folio 77 page 12
It would certainly make sense if Reginald's mother was Minnie ELLIOTT and explain why the children were deposited with the name ELLIOTT if their parents weren't actually married and perhaps the only three belonging to Minnie ???
Casalguidi :)
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Marty,
Looking back at my information, I have made a note that they were in Dartford in the 1901 census.
Regards
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Hi, Pete's friend here. This is the info that Medway Archives sent me, which is where we got Eliza Collins from:
"The creed register (ref: WIc/, microfilm 167) shows that Reginald Elliott was admitted from Strood Intra on 11 August 1902, and discharged on 27 July 1904. The name of the informant is given as Mrs Elliott. The same page of the creed register shows the admission of two other Elliotts, Bertie and Minnie, who were admitted on 6 March 1902 from Strood Intra and also discharged on 27 July 1904. . The name of the informant is given as 'aunt'. The name of the pauper's nearest relative or friend is given as 'Eliza Collins, 5 Pearson Street, Station Road, Strood.'
The admission and discharge register for 1902 (ref: WIa/2, microfilm 161) confirms this information. P. 41 shows the admission of Bertie and Minnie Elliott. Bertie was aged 9 and born in 1893, and Minnie aged 6 and born in 1896. They were brought in by their aunt Eliza Collins of the address mentioned above. P. 65 records the admission of Reginald Elliottt, aged 4 who was born on 1898. No extra notes accompany his admission."
I feel that it would be worth getting the birth certificate for Reginald Banks (and/or Herbert or Minnie) as it would establish whether the mother was Eliza, who Frederick appeared to be married to, although I haven't yet found a marriage cert, or Minnie, as stated on the baptism.
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Hi
Thanks for this I have been in touch with Pete by eMail as well, he said it appeared that Herbert (Bertie) and Minnie went back to Dartford in 1911 census, but the Farningham Home record shows Herbrt going to West Wales 21 June 1909 and this is confirmed on the 1911 census.
I have sent Pete copies of the Farningham Home records for both Reginald and Herbert and the admission date is exactly the same as their discharge date from the Poor Union Workhouse.
Thanks for any help you can/have given as you know myself and Pete have been on this for years with very slow progress.
Martyn
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The same page of the creed register shows the admission of two other Elliotts, Bertie and Minnie, who were admitted on 6 March 1902 from Strood Intra and also discharged on 27 July 1904. . The name of the informant is given as 'aunt'. The name of the pauper's nearest relative or friend is given as 'Eliza Collins, 5 Pearson Street, Station Road, Strood.'
Excellent!! That would be Eliza COLLINS nee ELLIOTT with a sister Minnie b1875 Limerick, Ireland as mentioned above ............... the address confirms as that's where she was living at the time of the 1901 census :)
To me, the most likely scenario at present looks to be that Frederick Valentine BANKS married Eliza (surname unknown at present) and had Frederick junior 1892 but by 1893 was with Minnie (probably ELLIOTT and sister to Eliza COLLINS nee ELLIOTT).
Of course, it's quite likely that the birth certificate of Reginald BANKS won't reveal anything already deduced by the above. Is there enough there to convince you that Reginald Patrick Tarleton ELLIOTT is actually Reginald Alfred BANKS?
Have you exhausted every possible avenue to try and establish a date of birth for Reginald Patrick ................ obituary/gravestone/work records/club records which you could compare with that given on a birth certificate? There are the Sep 1939 National registration records but it is very expensive and very much taking the chance that he was at home on that night as you need a definite address and, of course, that he actually knew his exact date of birth.
Casalguidi :)
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The Bertie and Minnie ELLIOTT that I found in the 1911 census in Dartford are potentially different children. They are named ELLIOTT and are with their parents - Josiah and Minnie ELLIOTT . Bertie is slightly the wrong age for our Herbert - being 13 in 1911. I initially tried to find a link between this ELLIOTT family and Eliza COLLINS' ELLIOTTS , in case she was the 'aunt' to this Minnie and Bertie. No link found so far.
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Yes, this family were at Sutton at Hone in 1901 census, and Herberts age is not right that's why I discarded them although Sutton at Hone is in the Dartford registration district.
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The creed register (ref: WIc/, microfilm 167) shows that Reginald Elliott was admitted from Strood Intra on 11 August 1902, and discharged on 27 July 1904. The name of the informant is given as Mrs Elliott. The same page of the creed register shows the admission of two other Elliotts, Bertie and Minnie, who were admitted on 6 March 1902 from Strood Intra and also discharged on 27 July 1904
Has anybody actuallly checked the discharge register for 27 Jul 1904 to see if there is a note of where the children were discharged to? I'm thinking Minnie here as the above implies that Bertie and Minnie were discharged on the same day.
Casalguidi :)
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I am led to believe that the archives unfortunately do not have the admission and discharge register covering 1904.
The discharge date came from the creed register.
Martyn
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Yes, I read that the information was from the creed register ............ such a shame that the discharge register for that period doesn't appear to survive then :(
Casalguidi :)
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I have received the birth cert for Reginald Alfred Banks, anyone like to comment
Registry was 1898 Greenwich East
Martyn
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Seems to me that Minnie Elliot was the mother of Bertie, Minnie and Reginald which is why they became Elliot when they were placed in the workhouse. Can we now be certain that the boy Reginald Elliot in the Workhouse/Farningham Home became Reginald Patrick Elliot who was called up for the Army in 1917?
Personally I think there's a lot going for it - i.e.
1. Army record says Birthplace - Strood, although Reginald Banks was born in Greenwich, the family appeared to be back in Strood fairly soon after that.
2. Army record states - enlisted 26 March 1917 - states age on enlistment 19 years, (dash) months, if he was born on 9 March, he would have been 19 years and a couple of weeks. Of course he may not have known his birthday and just knew he was about 19.
3. Army record states he was a bootmaker's assistant. The Farningham record of Reginald's release has him leaving in 1914 to go to the American Repairing Company at 393 Edgware Rd. The Post Office directory of 1914 has a bootmaker, L Radenti operating at 393 Edgware Rd. (couldn't find anything on the American Repairing Co). Reg then goes back to Farningham and leaves again to go to Messrs Pocock Bros, 235 Southwark Bridge Rd. Pocock Bros were Boot Manufacturers with a factory at 235 Southwark Bridge Rd in 1914 (Post Office Directory).
4. Army record lists Herbert as Brother - next of kin.
So it would seem that Frederick Banks had the first child Frederick with 'Eliza', the next 3 with Minnie, then the next 3 with Catherine, who he married in 1901. Interestingly, Catherine is with another partner, Edward Terry in 1911, with another child, while her own children are with Frederick. Catherine married Edward Terry in 1913 after Frederick dies in 1912.
It would be interesting to find out if Frederick Banks the first child was also placed in the Workhouse in 1902 with the other children (it seems his mother died in 1899). When we enquired we were only looking for Elliots, and perhaps he would have gone in as a Banks (or even under his mother's maiden name if she wasn't married to Fred Banks, which we don't know).
I'd like to know what happened to Minnie Elliot - in 1901 there is a Minnie Elliot working in a Workhouse in Coventry, born Ireland and the right age that I can't track backwards to eliminate her.
Any comments?????
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I have sent for Birth Certs of Frederick, Herbert and Minnie which may help further. these should be wih me in a few days.
There does not seem to be much on any marriages apart from Fredericks marriage to Catherine Upton in 1901.
Martyn
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Excellent. Frederick's b cert should give us Eliza's maiden name and may help to find a marriage, if there is one. Is the marriage between Frederick and Catherine Upton on CityArk? Would be interesting to see if he's a widower or a batchelor.
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Here are the birth details of Frederick Valentine and Herbert William.
Minnie Fay and Reginal Alfred on next post.
Eliza is Eliza Butler, possible death in Strood Jun 1893, possible birth Medway Dec 1866.
Note there is a different address for each birth so looks like they moved around a lot.
Still can't find any Marriages for Eliza or Minnie to Frederick Banks.
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Minnie Fay and Reginald Alfred birth certd
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Frederick Valentine Banks marriage to Catherine Upton, note he was a widower but I still have not found any previous marriages.
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Has anybody made any progress? I keep coming back to this but without anything to add. I haven't been able to identify Frederick Valentine BANKS with any certainty in any census prior to 1891 nor his marriage to Eliza. Neither can I yet establish what became of Minnie (born 1895).
Searching for a Minnie ELLIOTT again today I came across the following which may or may not be of any significance:
Marriage at Fort Frances, Rainy River, Ontario, Canada 27 Apr 1927
Doris Marjorie WELLS of Fort Frances, Rainy River, Erno, Ontario born England age 16 parents George Wm WELLS and Minnie ELLIOTT
Frederick Lionel Green born England age 22 parents F L GREEN and Katherine POWELL
Passenger list for the "Metagama" arriving St John, New Brunswick, Canada 24 Mar 1919 - family destined for Sidney NS:
George William WELLS 34 railway worker
Minnie 39 wife
Ernest A Edward 13
Doris Marjorie 8
If you search the free 1911 census index at http://www.familysearch.org and http://www.1911census.co.uk for a Minnie WELLS born Limerick up pops one age 31 in Swindon! The age is a bit out but searching http://www.1911census.co.uk again for WELLS in Swindon with other member of the household a Minnie WELLS confirms it's the same family as in the passenger list.
The free 1911 index at http://www.familysearch.org shows George William WELLS 25 b.Grefton Oxford, Minnie 31 b.Limerick, Ernest 5 b.Silvertown and Doris b.Rotherhithe.
There's a couple of things that stood out here ............... Minnie born Limerick although the age is out a bit, they were living in Swindon 1911 (not that far from Bath) and they emigrated to Canada which could be why Reginald says his father (actually step father WELLS) is a (albeit deceased) rancher on his marriage.
Obviously I don't want to be sending anybody down some false path ............ any thoughts?
Casalguidi :)
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Not much progress has been made here since birth certs etc were obtained.
Will look at this but it seems unlikely, only reason Reginald was in Bath was because he was sent to hospital during the WW1 and presumably met my Grandmother and got married.
Have been in touch with someone who is a relative of one of his half brothers and they have the same problem with the Banks family being rather illusive.
Thanks for rturning to this now and then.
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Thankyou for the information about Reginald's reason for being in Bath - we needn't centre too much on that then but I've just realised that the given birthplace of Ernest A Edward "WELLS" bc1905/6 in the 1911 cesus free index was Silvertown ............. Silvertown is where "your" Minnie's parents (William John and Elizabeth Theodosia ELLIOTT) were living at the time of the 1911 census isn't it? Again, possibly of significance or pure coincidence? Incidentally, I couldn't immediately see a likely marriage for George William WELLS and Minnie ELLIOTT ::)
I came across this little snippet giving a date of birth for Doris Marjorie http://www.ancestraltrails.ca/walker%20for%20web-o/p985.htm#i24565 but no source given for cross checking unfortunately.
Casalguidi :)
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I happened to be doing some research in Essex and this looks like it could be E A E (WELLS') baptism just in case in happens to be relevant at some point.
Ernest Arthur Edward son of Albert Edward and Minnie WINGROVE baptised St Mark, Victoria Docks, Essex 21 Feb 1906 (born 29 Jan 1906) of 25 Tate Road, labourer.
Casalguidi :)
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Hi, Iam just starting a search on behalf of Bert Elliott who was in the Framingham Boys home for his granddaughter......can someone get in touch?
thanks
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Hi all,
Can't believe I'm only seeing this thread now!. My line are the Elliotts, Minnie Grace Elliott (mother of Bert, Reginald and Minnie) being my 1st cousin 3x removed).
As far as I can see Minnie Grace and Frederick Valentine never married, at least I cant find a record for it anyway. Frederick was fond of the women - he had a son by an Eliza Butler (Frederick Valentine), cant find a marriage record there either.
He then had Bert, Reginald and MInnie with Minnie Grace Elliott, she's disappeared on me after Reggies birth. He then married Catherine Upton and had another few children after that. I'm doing to head off now to check out the WELLS connection - thanks for the heads up on that.
Minnie's three kids are with him (and Catherine Upton Banks) in the 1901 census but then they seem to have been put into the Homes over the next few years. Minnie's sister Eliza Collins (nee Elliott) is mentioned as is a Mrs Elliott in various transcripts.
The last sighting I have of Minnie junior is a record dated 12 May 1909 when she was discharged from the workhouse to a Convalescent Home in Sandgate. Can find neither a 1911 census or death record for her :-\
Bert or Herbert - I have him in 1911 in Wales working on a farm but dont have anything for him after that. Would love to hear from the previous poster if you read this.
Reggie / Reginald - bit of an enigma for me tbh. He was christened as Reggie Alfred Banks. Once the three kids went into the Homes their names went back to Elliott. However somewhere along the way Reggie Alfred Banks became Reginald Patrick T(have seen Tarleton mentioned) Elliott. I was very sceptical that this was "my" Reggie until I noticed in this military files that this next of kin was brother Herbert and that he was born in Strood, Kent in 1898.
That's the long and short of it for me - all this is documented on my Ancestry tree here www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/4411541/person/-523491530/facts (http://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/4411541/person/-523491530/facts) The tree is public so please feel free to take a look - I'm very open to being told that I'm wrong ;D
Best wishes
Denise