RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Rutha1636 on Saturday 26 November 11 01:17 GMT (UK)
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Morning all
I have a relative Robert Spencer b 1807 in Huntingdonshire UK. His Brother Arthur William Spencer b 1827 Norfolk UK
Parents Robert Spencer and Ann Kent (both died UK).
Arthur came to Tasmania I believe 1853 - Married Austinette Addis in Melbourne 1954 and then returned to Tasmania where the first three children were born.
Edwin Addis Culloden spencer 1855
Sydney Charles spencer 1858
William Francis spencer 1857
I believe Arthur came to Tasmania to join his eldest brother after Arthur got in to a spot of bother with the Law in Yorkshire and his father died.
I am trying to work out whether the Robert Spencer who died oatlands Tasmania 1866 is my Robert Spencer born 1807 in Huntindonshire.
Record of death states he was 59 years old,(so birth would be correct) a Brewer, and informant was a friend Emma Ellen.
Record of marriage 1843 to Esther Carroll names him a "Collecting Clerk" of full Age (if my robert he would be 36 yo)
I cannot determine whether the Robert who married Esther is the same Robert who died at oatlands and don't know if either of them are the Robert born Huntingdonshire UK. I cannot determine how Robert came to Tasmania. He is not listed with his family in the 1841 census in England. There is a Robert who came out to Tasmania as a convict on the ship Isabella - convicted for forging, but pardoned after getting to Tasmania.
Does anyone have any ideas on how I might try to connect these Roberts and determine if they are mine?
Regards Ruth
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Hi Ruth,
A few more bits to add to the confusion:
The convict was a brewer
Tried in London
His description list has the notation "Chester" which is usually their native place
He was married to Elizabeth at Brisley, Norfolk and had one child
The entry from the Tombstones and Memorials Index of Tasmania states that the Robert who died in 1866 was born at Yarmouth, Norfolk. This may be on his headstone, but sometimes it is info from other sources.
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-40,262,38,L,80
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON18-1-9,115,41,L,80
Debra :)
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Robert SPENCER was tried at the Old Bailey in Feb 1833 and there is a full account here:
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/forms/formMain.jsp
It confirms the details on his conduct record of previously being a school master and then a brewer.
Debra :)
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Hmmm!
I have Robert Spencer marrying Elizabeth Secker in Oct 1825 in Bisley Norfolk. The rest of Roberts family was in norfolk at that time.
This Robert and Elizabeth had a daughter Frances Ann Spencer at Bisley, Norfolk in 1828, but i can find no futher evidence of her.
I have Elizabeth in 1841 Census as a Publican - so probably the right connection. (Does not give marital status). No Robert or Frances with her at that time. Ann (middle name of Frances) was my Robert's name - Ann Kent. - long stretch and certainly no proof.
In 1851 Cenus Elizabeth is listed as a housekeeper and a widow.
So I feel confident that the Robert who died Oatlands in 1866 is the same Robert as above - and was transported on the Isabella for forging. Interestly my Robert's father was an Excise man - so I expect that Robert would have been able to read and write - and hence acted as school teacher in Tasmania.
So if I have established the Oatland's connection - I think the marriage - Esther Carroll - I think that family had some connection to Oatlands. Off to check now.
Ruth
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The first child of Robert Spencer and Esther Carroll was born in Oatlands Tasmania. Her name Adeline Spencer married William Gerrand in Oatlands and brought up their family there.
I knew there was a connection! :o
So now - I am fairly confident in:
Robert Spencer married Elizabeth Secker in Norfolk 1825 and was transported on the isabella to Tasmania in 1833. He remarried Esther Carroll in Tasmania and settled in Oatlands raising a family. He died in 1866 at Oatlands. Was both a School teacher and a Brewer.
Dates fit - death and 26 years old at transportation - gives DOB of 1807.
If i could just find out his parent's names - I could be confident that this Robert is my Robert
"Ruth
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Hello Dundee
Thank you so much for your help and links. I ddn't know you could get the old bailey on line.
I have accepted this Robert spencer convict as my dearly beloved Great x2 grand uncle! Ah well - as they say if you haven't got a convict in your background you can adopt ones.
Regards ruth
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Hi Ruth,
Here is a link to an obituary of Robert Spencers daughter Esther.It gives you a bit of information on him.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/29203588?
Johngirl
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Hi Ruth, I have just begun to research both my mother's family and my father's family. At present I am just constructing my tree and have just registered with rootschat.com and have come across you there and although I have not yet become a paid member of ancestry.com I have seen some of your entries there.
I think we are related as we share some relatives!
Robert Spencer is also related to me.
My name is
Annette Laskowski nee Annette Spencer,
daughter of Reginald,
Grand daughter of Frank,
Gr. Grand daughter of Edwin A C Spencer,
G, G, Granddaughter of Arthur William and Austinette Addis.
I am not sure of your tree as I can't see it on ancestry until I become a paid member, so I am not sure how we are related.
Just thought you might like to know and I may be able to give you some info too. But I am not sure how we can communicate if you want to.
Annette
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Hi Annette
You are my third cousin - welcome to the family and to the ancestry family as well! It was lovely to hear from you - I don't think we can post an email here, but when you get onto ancestry you will be able to see my tree. I don't even think you need to be a paid member to put up a tree.
Arthur William Spencer and Austinette Addis are my 2xG Grandparents as well.
G-grandparents - Arthur Alexander Spencer and Margaret Armstrong
Grandparents - Gertrude Spencer and Joseph Tovey
Parents - Ida Tovey and Adrian Anderson
Robert Spencer is eldest brother of Arthur William. Robert was transported to Tasmania in 1833 for uttering a forged cheque. He left a wife in Norfolk (England) and remarried in Tas. Many of his descendents still live in Tasmania.
If you google Arthur William Spencer you will find a website on genetracer.net. This is set up by another descendent - but through Eleanor spencer line. You may get some contact details there again.
Regards Ruth
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Hi Ruth!
Thanks for your reply...this is so exciting as a "beginner researcher" to see that my ancestors are "living on" via so many other people/relatives already honouring their memory on the internet!!! What a time we live in to enable us to relatively easily access our roots! Having said that I am finding it overwhelming to see what is available for me to delve into once I find enough time to dedicate to this, my newest project. Maybe I am approaching it the wrong way and would like your advice please. I thought I would track down as many names as possible for the tree following both my parents roots before paying for ancestry membership to access and print off specific records. Having said that, I need to be able to find the time to dedicate to the research whilst baby sitting even more members of the family tree :)
At first I thought ' try a month membership ' but now I think it might be better to get an annual membership so I don't feel so much pressure...leading to addiction :) . I might be able to flit in and out with less pressure. How did you approach your research as I see you originally posted your initial query about Robert Spencer 4 years ago!
Thankyou for the genetracer.net site. I will look into that asap. Thanks for the welcome to the family at my age of 63 ;) but particularly to the ancestry family! Your contact has now brought the process more alive and has encouraged me and made me feel more secure in joining ancestry. It seems to be a great site and worth it.
3 x Cousin Annette!
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Photo of Robert Spencer's headstone, St Peter's Anglican church at Oatlands -
http://www.gravesoftas.com.au/municipalities/Oatlands/St%20Peters%20Oatlands/Spencer%20Robert.JPG
Cheers,
Peter
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Thank you Peter. Are you also a relative of Robert Spencer? Annette
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Not a descendant but my direct line family would have been resident in Oatlands at the same time as Robert Spencer.
Some members of my family are buried in St Peter's Anglican graveyard as well. Just thought it would be of interest of see Robert's headstone...
Cheers,
Peter
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Yes it is interesting to see and hopefully I can make a trip sometime to see it in person! Thanks again! Annette
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Hi all
I'm descended from Robert's brother Henry through his 1st wife Mary Hempstock. There was a TV programme on last night (UK) and it told the story of 3 siblings (girls) who were part of a criminal gang. 2 of the sisters were transported, 1 to Australia and the other to Tasmania - the one who went to Tasmania made good and among her descendants were judges and the Premier (I assume that's like a President or Prime Minister???) so I was really interested to see that Robert also made good and was some sort of legal person - cant find that reference now.
Happy to share info via this site or personal e-mail.
Ferret1
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Hello Ferret
I am descended from the youngest child of the family, Arthur William Spencer. He went from Yorkshire to Tasmania in 1853 - not transported. I do not believe Robert was in any way a legal person. He was a teacher in England and was transported for uttering a forged cheque. He had a wife alive, and daughter dead at the time of transportation. He remarried in Australia while his wife in England was still alive. Wife is listed in 1841 census as brewer/publican. Robert was joined by brother Arthur and they also operated a brewing company in Tasmania but that was insolvent in 1855. Arthur had married in 1854 had 3 sons in Tasmania, but then moved to Bendigo in Victoria. Bendigo at that time was a gold rush area. He was insolvent again in 1879, and in 1887 at the age of 60 he was in court for beating his wife. I believe his wife left him around that time as in 1894 his wife is not present with him. His wife moved to Cue/Day Dawn in the Murchison area of Western Australia to join another son Arthur Alexander Spencer (my great grandfather) and his family in the WA goldfields. She died there in 1909 and her husband died in Bendigo the following year - buried in pauper's grave.
Do you know what became of the 2 sisters Harriot and Louisa?
If you have an ancestry profile, I would be happy to give you access to my tree which has a fair amount of information about the Australian side of this family. BTW the Premier is not Prime Minister or President. Australia has a Prime Minister who covers the whole of Aus as does your PM, the Premier is the top politician in each State. so Tasmania, Victoria, Western Australia etc all have a Premier. Regards Ruth
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Hi Ruth
I was sure that I read somewhere Robert did something in the legal trade - do you think one of his children was linked to the legal trade in some way? I will keep searching!
When you say Louisa and Harriot do you mean Robert's sisters? If so then I think Louisa died in Retford, Nottinghamshire in 1882, Harriot; I'm not sure.
Thanks for the info about the Premier; a bit like some of our counties that have Mayors maybe?
I do have a profile on Ancestry (gillcarney) and have a lot more info on the Spencer family going back to Thomas Spencer b. c. 1690 in Liverpool. I'm more than happy to give you access if you request it.
Good to make contact, Gill
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Ruth. Are you still searching for info on Robert Spencer.
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Wow I only found this site by accident while looking for info on Robert and Ann (Kent)Spencer. They were my g g g grand parents. It's been an eye opener. I have maybe some information ppl don't have about Arthur william and austinette addis his wife. I'm new to this, so be gentle.
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Arthur william spencer and austinette addis were my great great grandparents too. Their son sydney Charles was my great grandfather. Austinette left Arthur to follow her son middle name cullodin to day Dawn in cue WA. Hence my middle name is Dawn. I'm new to this so any help would be good.
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Hi Jan
Nice to hear from you. I haven't been on Roots Chat for years, but did get your message in my email.
Firstly it was my Great Grandfather Arthur Alexander Spencer who went to Day Dawn/Cue. His daughter Gertrude was my grandmother. The child that has Cullodin as middle name was Edwin Addis Cullodin Spencer 1855-1938. He remained farming in north west Victoria. Sydney Charles did go to Day Dawn/Cue. I am not sure if both brothers went together or if one followed the other.
I would love to have photos of Austinette and Arthur William. Do you have any?
Austinette was not living with her husband in Victoria for a number of years before she left for WA. If you search for her in Ancestry.com.au, you should find my tree which has some newspaper cuttings regarding domestic violence.
I am going to Tasmania in Dec and meeting up with Robert Spencer's descendants.
If you have any further information/photos about the family I would be really interested. And if you have a tree on Ancestry let me know. If I can be of any help - happy to.
Regards Ruth Anderson
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Ruth
Thankyou for your reply. I will look into what I found and try to find a photo for you. From what I have seen of the male Spencer's, they all look like my grandfather, Clifford Stanley Spencer. I can certainly see the family resemblance. We will have to keep in touch. I seem to have more relations than I thought.
Janette
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Ruth
Just remembered. Years ago I found Arthur william was given 10 yrs transportation to Tasmania for stealing 3 bottles of wine. I stumbled onto it, but was too busy with work to Cary it on.
Janette
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re Arthur William - I cant find any evidence of this do you remember where you saw it?
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Ruth
I'm sure I saw it on a U.K. Criminal site. I did see this year that he was charged with larceny when he was 16, but only given 3 months in U.K for it. I will continue to look for things. I'm fascinated with it all.
Janette
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This Robert and Elizabeth had a daughter Frances Ann Spencer at Bisley, Norfolk in 1828, but i can find no futher evidence of her.
Sadly, perhaps this is her?
Burial, Parish of Brisley, Norfolk
25 July, 1828. Frances Ann SPENCER, 10 wks, abode: Brisley.
Edit to add:
Baptism:
Brisley, 7 May, 1828
Frances Ann SPENCER, d/o Robert (schoolmaster) and Elizabeth Spencer
Abode: Brisley
Judith
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Hi I,m Don, Son of Neville, Grand Son of Sydney , Great Grand son of Arthur and I live in Melbourne too, see there a few of us left Don Spencer