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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: ABoyd on Saturday 03 December 11 18:46 GMT (UK)
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Hello, looking for any help or advice in tracking down an Irishman who emigrated to the US, have little idea of best way to go.
Thomas Boyd was born somewhere between 1879 and 1890 , one of nine or possibly ten children of John Boyd and Eleanor Cardin of Ballysakerry near Ballina co. Mayo Ireland. It is not known when he went to the USA, and while Civil registrations and a marrige cert have been found for most of the siblings, none has been found for Thomas. He does not appear with the family in the 1901 or 1911 Irish census.
In family papers have been found a letter from Thomas dated October 19th 1939, from New York. It refers to a Charlie Boyd, a Mr Cline being 90, a Dorothy, says the children are all well, and is addressed to his brother Alexander Boyd, who is known to have been in new York from 1928 to 1932. (dates taken from an old bank book in his name). He - Alex - returned to Ireland and died there in the 1940's.
An address of 430 E.80 st New York City was on the letter. Brother Alex is believed - not certain to have worked for a firm called Shipley Brothers Wall st, and to have been a successful boxer.
Tom stayed in USA. A memorial card for Thomas Boyd was found in Alex's effects giving a date of death: 5th Octoiber 1943. New York.
I would appreciate any info to help trace what Thomas's life was like in the USA, if he married, where he is buried - and if he had any descendants.
There is an address for a Charlie Boyd at 151 West St NYC with the numbers 228 L3373 beside it, not sure what that means?
Any help appreciated tracing the elusive Thomas would be much appreciated.
ABoyd
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Did he have a brother named Patrick? I see an 1899 passenger list with an 18 yr. old Thomas Boyd of Ballina going to join his brother Patrick of 343 E. 41 (I think) St., New York.
The address on this WWII Draft Registration card is very close to the address on your letter:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12043-124285-17?cc=1861144
His death does not appear to be on the New York City death index at www.italiangen.org, so seems likely that he died outside of New York City.
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Hi, and thank you for your quick reply!
Yes, he did have a brother Patrick, born 15th August 1887 (Civil registration Cert), Ballina district, Patrick was in Ireland in 1901 aged 14 on the census.
Interesting about the address- it was a large family -so maybe a relative rather than a brother, unless the ages fit?
ABoyd
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You're welcome.
If Thomas had a brother born Aug. 1887, I suppose he couldn't have been born Nov. 1887. However, in my experience, it does seem to be fairly common among people of this time (particularly the Irish) to have fluctuating birth dates/years in various records throughout their lives.
Might the Dorothy mentioned in the letter have been Thomas' daughter? There is a Thomas Boyd in New York in the 1930 Census with a daughter named Dorothy (among other children): https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X428-S31
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Yes, I do agree - irish dates can be very tricky at times.
I looked at the letter again and it says " Dorothy is a big girl now, 1/2 foot taller than her mother". It does not say who she is. So if Dorothy was 5 in 1930, she would have been 14 in 1939 when he wrote the letter, which would fit nicely. Would there be any way of finding a birth cert for her?
How would I buy a copy of this record, and would it give more info? Are there any other census available to look up?
Re the military card, which looks promising - does it mean he would have served in the army, or was it just a record of eligeble men for service?
Thank you so very much for all this helpful info.
ABoyd
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Ellis island site has some Boyd emigration records:
1908 Charles to brother Patrick 436 West 38th St NY mother Mrs Boyd Carrowkelly Ballina
1911 Charles to brother Alex 415 West 17th St NY mother Mrs M Boyd, Carrowkelly, Ballina
1930 census on Family Search looks to have a couple of Thomas Boyds b Ireland.
One with daughter Dorothy and one single.
Irish census has a Charles with mother Maria and father William.
Is Eleanor the Ellenor in Rosserk, Ballysakeery in 1901?
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All men of a certain age were required to register for the draft. Most among the ones from WWII currently available to the public did not serve, as they were older men.
I think your death date may have been off by one year. The death index at www.italiangen.org has the death of Thomas Boyd, age 56, died 5 Oct. 1942 in Manhattan. The certificate # is 19811. There is information about ordering the certificate here:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/html/vitalrecords/death.shtml
On www.fultonhistory.com, a site with old newspapers, there is a death notice in the New York Evening Post for Thomas Boyd who died Oct. 5. If you go there and do a boolean search with the words "thomas w/2 boyd and 1942", it should be the first result. Unfortunately, the scan is a bit fuzzy, so I'm not entirely sure what the date of the paper was. Thomas was listed as the beloved husband of Mary, which is a possible match for the census record I found above. It says he was "reposing at Walter B. Cooke Funeral Home, 1451 First Ave., New York City until Friday, 9:30 AM. Requiem mass St. Monica's Church, 10 A.M. Internment Calvary Cemetery."
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1913 - Alexander, William and Ann from Carrowkeely go to their brother Charles, 209 West 33 St
Are there two Alexanders?
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Alick Boyd arrives 1922 -relative Henry Boyd, brother Carrowkeely and is going to his brother Charles.
All these siblings seem to be the children of William and Maria.
I am posting because in the first post, you say that Thomas writes a letter to his brother Alex. :-\
Thomas 17 yrs is with John and Ellenor in 1901 , Rosserk, Ballysakeery.
They too have an Alexander 12 yrs in 1901.
1901 Boyd (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Ballysakeery/Rosserk/1572304/)
The brothers, Thomas, Alexander and Patrick are still in Ireland in 1911
1911 Boyd (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Ballysakeery/Ballysakeery/700148/)
Apologies, if I have the wrong family - I am a bit puzzled.
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Thank you everybody! :)
Heywood - There is no question that Alexander and Thomas are the children of Eleanor Carden and John Boyd who were married in Ballysakereery in 1878. Her granddaughter is still living and is the niece of Thomas, daughter of Alexander, who died when she was a young child. I will have to investigate this other family you have found and see if there is a connection.
The rest of the info I have comes from a commisioned report from Mayo Family History in 1998, which has been passed on to me, and already I have found several errors, plus a few family items. The memorial card for Thomas was actually the back page of Alexander's, printed in Dublin, - an unusual thing to do,, so it is quite possible there is a error - ether by printing, or by me taking down the date incorrectly - I will check back with the person who has it
I don't have a record of more than one Alexander - other than the one born 26th December 1888. I will check out the 1901 and 1911 again, and post here, as I can't remember offhand.
Shellyesq - I will check out all those items you mention, and check back with comments, thank you for the useful info about Army. A family member did say they thought he was buried in Calvary Cemetery. I will order the death cert. Is there any way of getting a tombstone inscription or pic ? Just off to read that obit, Thank you :)
Sorry to be bombarding with requests, this is such a good response! :)
ABoyd
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Ballina_Urban/Bridge_Street/699586/
Heywood, there is certainly something odd going on in the census - this is the right set of names for the father, aunts and uncles of Alexander's daughter, who is still alive - I will check with her to reconfirm. Not all the sons seem to be still in Ireland, which means Thomas left post 1911, so the info on when he might have gone to the states, is wrong - must have been post 1911.
The 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Ballysakeery/Rosserk/1572304/
Seems to fit in, but John has himself down as an Ag lab, which does not fit with info handed down.
I have now looked at an Irish Obit for Eleanor 1930 which says that Alexander is working for Brown and Shipley Bankers Wall St NY, mentions that Patrick and Alex won many athletic championships, but NO mention of Thomas!
::)
ABoyd
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In 1911, perhaps the 3 sons are working some land in Ballysakeery. The landowner is John Boyd.
Presumably, it is not the land in Rosserk from 1901 as it is a different townland.
Meanwhile the family have moved to Ballina and the sons have also been entered on the census for Bridge Street.
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Thank you Heywood, I did not think of that possibility! I have just looked up the original civil cert for Alexander 25 Dec 1888, Ballysokerry Co mayo, father John Boyd Farmer Ballysokerry. In 1930, when Eleanor dies, her address is "Moyville" Ballysokerry Ballina. The names of the chief mourners - children - correspond with the 1911 census, so I think your theory is correct. Thomas and Alexander not there, which makes sense.
Going on the 1911 therefore, Thomas was born c. 1884, so I am looking for a man of that age resident in New York called Thomas Boyd who left Ireland after 1911. Died most likely 5th OCT 42 NY - thanks Shelleyesq!
To cut a long story short, the obit for his mother says 10 children, now all accounted for, so Charles Boyd mentioned in the 1939 letter home is a different person.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X428-S31 - the 1930 census Shellyesq found is a little out on dates, he is 40 in 1930 when he ought to be 44/45, but I wait in hope that he was fibbing and the parents are correct.
Wondering where I go from here in the meantime?
ABoyd
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That one does fit quite nicely though - born 1890 :-\
(His wife is 10 years younger if he is 40 as he says - perhaps he fibs about his age because of that)
emigrates 1911 - we know it must be 1911 at the earliest
Dorothy is his daughter - he mentions Dorothy
Perhaps William Boyd and John Boyd are brothers and (as often happens) use family names for their children.
Hence you already have relatives in NY before Thomas goes.
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Just wondering what the on-line birth index situation is for NY, to follow up your suggestion, Heywood, and look for the four NY census children.
I have now got that death notice, thank you Shellyesq, it does look right.
Just in case any of the missing Boyd family come this way, Alexander B In the 1930 letter Thomas says "Tommy Cosgrove of the Express got married to a girl from Glensiland (Sp) in mayo, and Henry Carroll to a timekeeper."
Alexander Boyd took a few photos in NY. The names on the back are: Mr P McNamara, Charles Stewart, Dan Stewart, Joe McIlvane, Marie McIlvane.
Also one of an Elizabeth Miller - in a group of nurses, Then there is the note that says Mr Charles Boyd, 151 West St NYC, the most likely relative. but any of the others could be too - here's hoping a name rings a bell!
Thanks again ABoyd
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Yes, I fear we have strayed from the original request (It's just that I have a liking for that area of Mayo ;)).
It would be good to follow up now from NY side.
I know when I did something similar, we did find emigrants from same area in Mayo, settled together in same area in USA and we gained some information that way.
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Heywood, I am most interested in the Mayo side, do you think I should start a Mayo thread for the O'Donnell Carden Humbert connection?
Thanks to a kind person on this board who sent me details of the 1930 census, Thomas Boyd occupation seems to be Chauffer for American Express in 1930, born Irish Free State, arrived America what looks like 1917, but it is slightly possible 1911 as the number has been inked over.
Given the wife/children in 1930 a possible marriage is:
Murray Mary Aug 2 1920 Manhattan 28211 M600
Boyd Thomas S Aug 2 1920 Manhattan 28211 B300
From the Italian site Shelleyesq posted earlier.
Is there a way of getting a look up on this marriage, and the one below, and/or purchasing the certs, please?
Re the various entries on the Irish Census you mentioned I think I have a fix on Charles Boyd arriving in US post 1901 - Mother Mary Boyd Carrowkelly and a possible marriage in:
Boyd Charles J Nov 27 1912 Manhattan 28310 B300
Fogarty Maureen J Nov 27 1912 Manhattan 28310 F263
Turns out that Ballysakeery
Co. Mayo is
2.7 k from
Carrowkelly, according to Google maps, so although the Mayo report does not give a suitable brother for John Boyd to be Charles father, I will have to do a search - at any rate the two households were near enough for this potentially to be the right Charles mentioned in the letter. Thanks for your help on this, its getting clearer! :) :)
A Boyd
Update - Kindly person has sent me details of how to order the marriage certs. :)
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Yes, if you want to pursue the Mayo connection, create a new thread and after explaining what you are searching (how successful you will be is a different matter) and cross reference this thread by clicking the address above and posting it.
You will probably get me but hopefully there are some 1798 students also.
Ballasakeery is the civil parish and various townlands which have been mentioned are within this parish.
Townlands -Ballasakeery (http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlmayo2/ballysakeery_townlands.html)
Where are you based?
heywood
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Thank you Heywood,
I will do that when I have finished up the line of enquiry here. Have just had it confirmed that the two families in 1901 and 1911 are related, by means of a land document. All good progress. I am based in Dublin. Also that your hunch about the three brothers working on land owned by John in 1911 is correct.
Still can't find a birth for Thomas in Ireland in 1884 - maybe he just was not registered!
Thanks again, AB
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There is this which may be worth following up:
Ballina district Vol 4 pg 3 Jan/March 1906
'Thomas 1883 Boyd'
We had something similar a while ago on here and it does look as though for some reason, the person was either re-registered or registered late.
There is also a Patt 1884 and a John 1886 registered at the same time.
The odd thing is that Royal Irish Constabulary records (no other details) have these names and years for enlistment in 1906 :-\ (am now not so sure)
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Thank you! looks promising, as there is a suitable gap between John born 1882 and Eleanor b. 1885.
Ab
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Hi ABoyd,
There is a US Naturalization record for Thomas Boyd, born 16 November 1887 Ballysokeery. Ireland and aged 37 years. Spouse's Name: Mary
Children: Thomas, Dorothy, John, Agnes
Naturalization Date: 26 May 1925 New York District Court - Eastern District, New York.
Resided 534 49 Ave - Long Island City. New York. Occupation:- Expressman.
States the name of his wife is Mary and they were married 21 st August 1920 New York. Mary was born Castelbar, Co Mayo. Ireland on December 18th 1898 and entered the US November 6 th 1916. Thomas has 4 children who reside with him at the above address. It gives the names of the children with the birth dates but I need to check to see if they are still living before posting any more details.
I emigrated from Liverpool to Phildelphia PA on October 15th 1911 on the Dominion. I have lived uninteruptedly in Queens since 15 th October 1911 until September 15th 1931.
Affidavits of Witnesses were John James Burke and Thomas William Lowe.
Oath of Allegiance sworn in court 30 August 1932.
Cert No:- 3496526
Sandra
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The first born child was Thomas Boyd born 10 May 1923
This is the SSDI record whch shows his death
Thomas S. Boyd
Born 10 th May 1923 and died 15 November 1996
Last Residence: 10036 New York, New York
SSN was issued in New York (Before 1951)
Sandra
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Sandra, you are a gem, this is wonderful! :)
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Your very welcome, pleased to help.
Sandra 8)
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Got your PM Sandra, many thanks! :)
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Wondering if this might be a possibility for Charles Boyd in 1930 Manhattan, New York, New York (East 66 th Street)
Charles Boyd 48 Born Ireland. Married at 30 years. Immigrated 1908. NA.
Marven (Looks more like Maurenn) Boyd 39 Born Scotland. Married at 21 years. Immigrated 1911 NA
Mary Boyd 16 Born New York.
Sandra
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Sandra, that is him! I have found him on the 1930 census, would it be a huge ask to see if he has Nat Papers and if any of the children are deceased? If so, just say, I am very grateful to yo for all you have done already. :) :)
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Would you happen to know if there is a sister in law with the name Anna ?
Same family 1920 East 66 th Street. Manhattan Assembly District 14, New York, New York
Charles Boyd 37 Immigrated 1909. PA. Occupion RR. Subway
Maureen Boyd 31 Immigrated 1911. AL.
Mary Ellen Boyd 6 years 3 months.
Anna Boyd 34 Born Ireland. Immigrated 1911. NA. saleslady - Department Store.
Sandra
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Yes there was an Anna in the 1920 census. Someone here kindly sent me the detail from the 1930 census, and she was not there. AB :)
Boyd Annie 26 Female Daughter R Catholic from the Irish 1911 census, she is a sister of the Charles I am looking for as she has the right parents.
:) AB
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It looks as if the naturalization is between 1920 and 1930.
PA on the 1920 census means applied for and NA on the 1930 naturalized but can't see anything at the moment. Still looking.
Sandra
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Additional thread on Charles, so people can see what was found previously: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,569749.0.html
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Thank you Shelley, I will do this in future - its a good idea. :)
AB
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Thomas of Ballina. Ireland was on the Philadelphia Passenger List for 15 October 1911. Going to an aunt Mrs J Kane. Unfortunately can't read the address.The manifest is over written with NA details - 16 Nov 1931 - 92265 - 2/195887
He was a farm labourer and parents lived at Bridge Street. Ballina.
Sandra
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Anna Boyd. Born October 20th 1895, Ballina. Ireland. Petition for naturalization in the Southern District New York - Record No 105934
Resides 328 E 66th Street. Occupation:- Typist.
Emigrated from Queenstown 6 th June 1913 and arrived in New York 13 th June 1913 on the Adriatic.
Affidavits of Petitioner and Witnesses included the names of Charles Boyd and Maureen. Occupation of Charles was Guard - residing at 328 E 66th Street.
Stated the petetitioner had resided in US continuously since 1 st April 1922.
Sworn 6th April 1927
Oath of Allegiance - 8th September 1927
Sandra
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1913 - Alexander, William and Ann from Carrowkeely go to their brother Charles, 209 West 33 St
Are there two Alexanders?
The same William Boyd. Born Carrowkelly. Ireland in 1878 and aged 42 years also travels Liverpool to New York on the Baltic arriving 27 August 1920. Single. Occupation:- Guard.
Going to brother Charles Boyd. 328 E 66th Street. New York. Had been in the USA previously for 1 year in New York. Intends to stay in the USA for 4 years.
Mother Mrs Boyd. Carrowkelly. Co Mayo. Ireland.
Sandra
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Sandra, that is terriffic :) :) :) :) :) Now I know that both familes were so intertwined, the chances of finding out a bit more in due course have increased. The story is one that was not unsusual in Ireland, Thomas corresponded with brother Alexander back in Ireland, but Alexander dies in 1943, Thomas in 1942, the war intervenes, and the widows presumably did not keep up the correspondence. When Alexander dies, the back page of his Morturay card is dedicated to Thomas, and until now, the trail ended there.
Alexander fled to the states after the irish War of Independence/Civil war. and he was being persued by the British Secret service. he returned to Ireland and married and had children. His daughter tells me that he went into the states through Canada. She is hoping that one day, Thomas and Charles' family might make contact.
I have looked for your earlier refernce:"I emigrated from Liverpool to Phildelphia PA on October 15th 1911 on the Dominion. " Although I can find info on the ship and the route, i can't find a ships list, am wondering if anyone stateside could help?
Everyone here has been so helpful, Thank you! :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Your very welcome. Passenger list should be with you now. Hope someone can decipher the address - :(
Sandra
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Thank you! I don't know why it seems fitting that this has arrived now, exactly 100 years after Thomas set sail to start a new life, but it does. The address of Bridge St clinches it - that is where Thomas, siblings and family were in April 1911! I see you had posted the details above, and I must have missed the post. Even without the marriage cert, this pretty well makes it 90% certain we have the right men! Hope the cert comes soon - they say 4/5 weeks...
The Mrs Kane could be on his mother's - Eleanor Carden side - I have a thread going on another mystery there - but Kane does not ring a bell...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,569642.10.html
To Everyone, thanks again, any more ideas to follow welcome - I have tracked down the Express Archive in NY and have emailed them to see if anything survives on Thomas as an Expressman, now wondering where to look for Charles as a railway guard. - This in the hope of further sightings of their spouses and children.
Many Thanks :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
AB
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I am really pleased for you - this is great work by Sandra.
Philadelphia explains why we couldn't find his emigration.
I'm not sure if I am a bit lost here now- is Charles the cousin from Carrowkelly - there isn't another one is there? (I know there are two of other names).
Can Mrs Kane be found in censuses? You also have Mrs Mountain who is a sister to Mr Boyd (presumably) in 1911 and also those two young children called Bush -niece and nephew in the extended family.
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Not sure if this will work but here goes.
This is the address for Mrs Kane - can anyone help decipher please ?
Sandra
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Sandra, it is hard to read - I will take it into photo shop and see if I can lighten it a bit. I sent you a PM earlier.
Heywood,
When I started, the only ref to a Charles was in the letter - he is now def a cousin, through a document about land in the earlier generation.
There is only one Charles on the scene, he had a brother Alexander, as did Thomas. His (Charles) brother came through USA, as found out by Sandra. Off in search of Kane, Mountain and Brush now.
The other people mentioned in the letter were: A Mr. Cline being nearly 90, Tommy Cosgrove of the Express, and Henry Carrol. In his brother Alexander's photos taken in NY, a few people are named on the back - in the 1920's- are Mr. P McNamara, Joe McIlvane, Dan Stewart and Charles Stewart -and a Nurse Eillen Miller. It occurs to me that there may be another relative in there somewhere!
:) :) :) :) :) :)
AB
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Hi
Yes, thank you received your message and have carried out your request.
Really hoping someone may be able to decipher ::)
Sandra
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Me too, can't get it any better than you did, and many thanks for the PM and email. As I said earlier, I am off in search of the people mentioned by Heywood. But it has been proven that this site has a lot of ace detectives!
AB :) :) :) :) :)
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Hi AB and Sandra: I had a look, but can't decipher it. Except that the second line has P.O. (for Post Office) in it.
Sandra: I'll send you a PM.
John :o :o :o
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Thanks John - PO is all I can decipher at the moment unfortunately.
Sandra
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Canada Oceans Arrivals shows Alexander Boyd. Born 1889 Ballysoheens. (that is how it is written) Ballina and aged 32 years. Travelling Ballina to Halifax. Nova Scotia arriving 19 August 1921 on the SS Saturnia
Occupation:- Farmer. Roman Catholic. Object in going to Canada was to make a home. Alexander intended to stay permanently in Canada. Had never lived in Canada before. Destined to Charles Brennan. 981 Tupper Street. Montreal.
Nearest relative in country from whence came was Mother - Eleanor Boyd. Moyville. Ballysoheen. Ballina.
The booking agent was Patrick Chambers of Ballina.
Sandra
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Brilliant! That is Alexander - his mother was Eleanor Carden nee Boyd. Sandra, I am running out of ways to say thanks! Johhnyboy, welcome to the fray, it does look like P.O. to me too.
AB
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Brilliant! That is Alexander - his mother was Eleanor Carden nee Boyd. Sandra, I am running out of ways to say thanks! Johhnyboy, welcome to the fray, it does look like P.O. to me too.
AB
Boyd nee Carden ;) (No wonder - the information is flying in :))
Many people from Ballina went to Scranton area but I can see this doesn't say that!
Best I can see is Penc...r PO then ...... park PA (perhaps).
I'd like to thank Sandra too - I am really enjoying this.
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Me too - I do hope one of Charles or Thomas descendants are too - soon... :) :) :)
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Hi AB & Heywood,
You haven't seen anything yet- just wait until Johnnyboy gets to grips with this. Have forwarded the passenger list to the gentleman, who is the Pennsylvania expert - unfortunately he has a meeting for the next 4 hours or so but he will get back to you on this one.
Sandra
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Agnes Cavaliere. Born 20 September 1929 and died 20 June 2009
Last Residence: 11801 Hicksville, Nassau, New York
SSN was issued in New York (Before 1951)
Wonder if the above could be Agnes Boyd (if she stayed in New York, the date of birth is correct for her according to the Naturalization Document for Thomas.
Perhaps Shelly may have access to an obituary which may or may not confirm if the above is correct ?
OR an Obituary for Thomas S. Boyd
Born 10 th May 1923 and died 15 November 1996
Last Residence: 10036 New York, New York
SSN was issued in New York (Before 1951)
Sandra
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That really looks a possible, Sandra, given the birth date - should I be getting a cert at this time?
I got your Pm and think this is the best bet!
AB
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Didn't think Hicksville was a real place.... :) :) :) :) :)
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Hi ABoyd,
There is a US Naturalization record for Thomas Boyd, born 16 November 1887 Ballysokeery. Ireland and aged 37 years. Spouse's Name: Mary
Children: Thomas, Dorothy, John, Agnes
Naturalization Date: 26 May 1925 New York District Court - Eastern District, New York.
Resided 534 49 Ave - Long Island City. New York. Occupation:- Expressman.
States the name of his wife is Mary and they were married 21 st August 1920 New York. Mary was born Castelbar, Co Mayo. Ireland on December 18th 1898 and entered the US November 6 th 1916. Thomas has 4 children who reside with him at the above address. It gives the names of the children with the birth dates but I need to check to see if they are still living before posting any more details.
I emigrated from Liverpool to Phildelphia PA on October 15th 1911 on the Dominion. I have lived uninteruptedly in Queens since 15 th October 1911 until September 15th 1931.
Affidavits of Witnesses were John James Burke and Thomas William Lowe.
Oath of Allegiance sworn in court 30 August 1932.
Cert No:- 3496526
Sandra
I was able to read the first page of the manifest with Thomas Boyd's arrival in Philadelphia in 1911. It says that his destination in the U.S. was Philadelphia, though the second page, which I have not read, may have a different destination. If the above naturalization is for the same Thomas, then the date on above his last name on the manifest (Nov. 16, 1931) may be the date on which his certificate of arrival was sent to the court where he was filing his declaration of intention to naturalize.
If I can get to the library, I'll look at the second page of the manifest.
Hicksville is a real place. On Long Island. Exit 35 of the Long Island Expressway. Full of suburban types, rather than hicks. Billy Joel was raised there.
John :o :o :o
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Not sure if this will be any further help.
Line 2 on the same passenger list has a John Kane. Labourer. Aged 21 years. Parents from Clifton Co Galway. The address is difficult but could it be Soleil. Pittsburg withMcKeesport. PA written alongside it - to a sister Deliah ??? Kane.
May not be connected of course ???
Sandra
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Can see a John and Delia Kane in Philadelphia Ward 36, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania but thats about 5 hours away from Pittsburg and Mckeesports.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MGZG-JN2
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra,
I will see if the name Kane means anything to the family, It does not appear in anything I have. I will ask today if it rings any bells with others. I appreciate johnnyboys offer to seek out the original. :) :) :)
Sandra, thanks for the PM's sent so far, a wonderful trove!
AB
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Perhaps Shelly may have access to an obituary which may or may not confirm if the above is correct ?
I tried looking, but no luck. There were a few Agneses on the Social Sec. Death Index with that birthdate, but that one you mentioned did seem like a good possibility if she stayed in the area.
And, yes, Hicksville is a real place and not all that hickish. :) I have friends who used to live there, and they did say their out-of-town friends were amused by the name.
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Thanks for looking, Shelley - Hicksville is a great address! :) :) :) :)
AB
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Recall that it was mentioned somewhere a little earlier that Alexander Boyd worked for a bank. There is a 1930 census entry for an Alexander Boyd (the age is a little off - but that is not uncommon) Manhattan, New York, New York. Listed as a roomer West 84th Street. Immigrated 1925 PA. Occupation:- Guard at bank. ::)
Sandra
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Post deleted
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Trying for further help on this link
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,570233.0.html
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra for all of this help! I am in the middle of spreading all the info out and putting it together, and hoping than when the wedding certs turn up that it will be 100% - but I do think we are at 99% sure that we have the right families. Been checking out the various Agnes you came up with, but so far no joy! I will ok at the new link and see what people are suggesting. Thanks again.
Latest Alexander looks interesting too!
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X4K5-51Y
Is this th Alexander who is a guard at the bank? Could he have been fibbing about PA as he came in through Canada ::) ::) ::) ::)
AB
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Hi AB,
Yes, that is Alexander on the 1930. Alexander could have applied for naturalization, usually people had to wait 5 years from the time they entered the USA.
Would Patrick also have had the middle name John - came across a WW2 draft for a John P Boyd born 3 rd June 1885 (slightly different to a date than you gave earlier but we all know dates sometimes were incorrect ???) Born Ballina.
Resides 59 W 73 NY.
Person who will always know him was Charles Boyd of 524 W 151 st Street. NY
Employers Name :- US Army Ordinance. 200 Elmora Avenue. Elizabeth. NJ.
Perhaps you will end up with a one name study of every Boyd in New York from Ballina ;)
Sandra
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Hi again Sandra! As far as I can see from the births I have, they did not go in for a middle name, but being catholics, they would get one at Confirmation - if that is how they did it back then.! A one name study of all the Boyds in Ballina would mean I would still be at this in 2050! Think they are all related anyway, and all have the same first names. Thomas called daughter Agnes after his younger sister Agnes, I would think....Dorothy must come from the mothers side -! I will look and see if Charles had a brother John......Alexander and Thomas did have, but he died before they went to US. Thomas, as we now know, left before the war of Independance, but Alexander was on the run from the British, and may have used aliases.... :) :) :) :) :)
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Ballysakeery/Carrowkelly/1572203/
Yes Charles had a brother John P, born 1886/7! :) :)
And the address 151 West St NYC was amongst Alexanders papers with the Name Charles Boyd!
With two other numbers which mean nothing to me: 228 L3373 - a :) :) :) :)s far as I recall it was just a scrap of paper!
AB
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Looks like John P Boyd in Manhattan in 1920. Immigrated 1919. Roomer. Single. Alien. Labourer. Contractor.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MJBJ-K21
Interestingly there is a Thomas Boyd listed above John. Aged 40 years. Immigrated 1898. PA. Waiter in club.
Sandra
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The 1919 arrival - John Peter Boyd. Born 1885 Ballina. Ireland. and aged 34 years and 5 months. Single. Waiter.
Arrival Date: 25 Nov 1919
Southampton, England to New York arriving 25 November 1919 on the Mauretania
Mother Mrs M Boyd. Carrow Relly. (thats how it was written) Ballina. Mayo
Going to brother Charles Boyd. 328 E 66th Street. New York.
Sandra
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That's it then, its beginning to look as if almost all the brothers in both houses ended up in the states,
though Alexander came back! Nice to match up the address on the scrap of paper! It means there is another who might have had a family who would know Thomas' family.....another possible branch. :) :) :) :) :) :)
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Quite possibly John P Boyd. born 1885 and aged 63 years used transcontinental and Western Air Inc to travel from Shannon to New York 30 October 1948. Residing 59 West 73 rd Street. New York. No furher details but you never know that may coincide with a family event ???
Sandra
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John Boyd, Born 3 rd June 1885 and died 1969
Last Residence: 755 (U.S. Consulate - Not Claims Taking) Barcelona, Spain
SSN was issued in New York (Before 1951)
Interesting ;)
Sandra
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Very! I will ask - Sandra you deserve a special thanks for all this! I do hope he married and had lots of Children.
How long does an NYC cert take to arrive - says 4/5 weeks on the site....?
Heywood, if you are looking in, I am in search of the Mountain and Bush element, who are living with John and Eleanor, Thomas and Alexander in Bridge St in the 1911.
:) :) :) :) :) :)
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Hi to you both- yes I am looking in and finding it so very interesting!
A few years ago, together with a lady in USA, I did something similar to this collecting Goldens who emigrated from North Mayo to Scranton and area. Then it became addictive and extended to others from that particular area (north of Killala). There was always someone from the area going to another local family.
Back to yours- it is fascinating - thank you!
I looked for the Mountains and the Brushes but they are hiding. According to 1901 Irish census, Mr Mountain is Swedish.
No Brush names in Mayo in 1901 and no-one called Brush born Mayo in 1911 except the children. As you mention family names, Eleanor Brush is perhaps on the Carden side.
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Hi Sandra and Heywood,
That sound very interesting, Heywood, and I have found the same pattern here too - there seem to be a lot of Boyd's in the US at this time. I am also wondering how Mr. George Mountain, Sweedish tailor ended up married in Ballina to Thomas' aunt! Sandra, is there any way of working out when the Dominion arrived in America in 1911. I can see from the Manifest it appears to have left Liverpool on 4th October? It is too faint to read. AB :) :) :) :) :)
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Sorry, Sandra I see you have posted arrival date of 15h Oct on the other thread! :) :) :) :)
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Not sure where you're getting the image posted in Reply 40? For Mrs Kane's address?
The "PO" may actually be PQ....Province of Quebec....especially as there seems to be a Montreal connection.
Cheers,
China
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Its a Philadelphia Passenger List for a Thomas Boyd. Born 1884 Ballina. Ireland sailing on the Dominion arriving 15th October 1911 Philadelphia.
Sandra
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All I can see is an image that says Parents Bridge St Balina :P
Got a link?
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Go to the 2 nd page. Its was anc - which requires subscription.
Sandra
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Okay....didn't see there was a second page.
But I can't think of, or find, a Quebec place name that looks anything like what's written. So a red herring, probably.
But I also can't find any Charles Brennan in the Montreal directory for 1910, 1911, 1912, or 1913. Also, the resident at 981 Tupper is a J Swan.
Could have a boarder, I suppose.
Cheers,
China
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Canada Oceans Arrivals shows Alexander Boyd. Born 1889 Ballysoheens. (that is how it is written) Ballina and aged 32 years. Travelling Ballina to Halifax. Nova Scotia arriving 19 August 1921 on the SS Saturnia
Occupation:- Farmer. Roman Catholic. Object in going to Canada was to make a home. Alexander intended to stay permanently in Canada. Had never lived in Canada before. Destined to Charles Brennan. 981 Tupper Street. Montreal.
Nearest relative in country from whence came was Mother - Eleanor Boyd. Moyville. Ballysoheen. Ballina.
The booking agent was Patrick Chambers of Ballina.
Sandra
Thomas Boyd was never in Canada as far as we can tell at the moment,
Brother Alexander Boyd went via Canada 19 August 1921. How about Montreal Directory for 1921 ???
Sandra
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Hi AB,
We touched on John Peter Boyd about reply 64 and his arrival in reply 68.
John Peter Boyd. born June 3 rd 1885 Carrow. Ireland. Declared his intention to become a citizen of the USA 14 th May 1929. Southern District Court. New York.
Naturalization Record Number: 202729.
States the name of his wife is Elizabeth married 14 th May 1929 (same date as naturalization)
Elizabeth was born June 14th 1898 Goch. Germany. Entered the United states in November 1924. Resides at 44 W 76 Street. New York. NY.
John has no children. John's last foreign residence was Manchester. England. John entered the USA November 25th 1919 on the SS Mauretania. John has continously resided in the USA since that date.
Affidavit and Witnesses - Louis Rossano. 332 W 49 th Street. New York. Occupation:- Valet.
and Arthur P Frazee. 275 Linden Boulevard. Brooklyn. New York. Occupation:- Insurance Broker. Had been acquainted with John since 1 st October 1927
Sworn 26 th October 1932.
Sandra
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Cannot see a SSDI entry for Elizabeth Boyd born 14th June 1898 so this could indicate she died before 1962 when Social Security Death Index was fully up and running. Elizabeth wasn't named on the WW2 Draft for John either so perhaps they split up or she died before 1942 ???
Sandra
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This is the date of the marriaage given on the Naturalization 14 May 1929
http://italiangen.org/NYCBridesRes2.asp
Elizabeth Viefener May 14 1929 Manhattan 12186
John P Boyd May 14 1929 Manhattan 12186
Sandra
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A New York Passenger List shows - Elsiabeth Viefener. Born about 1902 Goch, Germany and aged 23 years. Single. Domestic.
Port of Departure: Hamburg, Germany to New york, arriving 9 November 1925 on the SS Andania
Father Gerhard Viefnner.
Rheindalen. Brock. LO5 Going to Uncle Theodore Symanns. 113 Richmond Street. Dorchester. Massachusetts.
Sandra
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There is also a passenger list for Dorothea Viefener, age 30, from Hamburg to New York, arriving 28 Apr. 1933. She was going to join sister E. Boyd, 52 W. 76th St., New York, and Dorothea was previously in New York from 1928-1932.
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Hi all,
And that is brilliant - all these people that Thomas was related to, I will sit down and figure it all out this evening. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Much gratitude!
But I can't think of, or find, a Quebec place name that looks anything like what's written. So a red herring, probably.
But I also can't find any Charles Brennan in the Montreal directory for 1910, 1911, 1912, or 1913. Also, the resident at 981 Tupper is a J Swan.
Could have a boarder, I suppose.
China
China, I believe Alexander was on the run from British Intelegence Agents, because of his involvement in the Irish War of Independence, which is why he may have been covering his tracks, and may have given false info. He goes to New York as soon as he enters Canada, according to family papers. But it might be worth a look at the 1921 census, if you had the time,
Shelley and Sandra, thanks again for your efforts - the details on Elizabeth are very interesting, and all new info! :) :) :) :) :) :)
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But it might be worth a look at the 1921 census, if you had the time,
There ain't one for Canada :P
The 1920 US shows an Alexander J Boyd Jr, age 28/29 (birth year 1892) in Erie, NY. Immigrated 1912. Married to Eliza. Born Ireland, father Irish, mother English.
Cheers,
China
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Hi AB,
The one China posted above, as per 1920 US census - was born in Belfast - April 3 rd 1892. Don't think he belongs to your clan though.
Sandra
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Hi Everyone,
Got a bit distracted today with life outside family history, but manged to put some of this together to create a tree with all this new info. I am now concentrating on Mr Tom Clines, who is 90 in 1939 and shaky, according to the letter. But can't find him in 1930?
Followed lead on other thread and have written to St Monica's Parish
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,569951.msg4221888.html#msg4221888
major thanks, jb
Seems they have a research facility so fingers crossed.
and thanks to Heywood for PM re Manchester.
AB
Ps have now got photo of ship bearing Thomas to USA - SS Dominion
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Not sure if this will work but here goes.
This is the address for Mrs Kane - can anyone help decipher please ?
Sandra
Hi Aboyd, Sandra, and other helpers here: Sandra was singing my praises last week in relation to an alleged ability on my part to perhaps decipher the writing on Thomas Boyd's passenger manifest from 1911, when he arrived in Philadelphia on the SS Dominion. Sorry it took so long for me to get around to this. I was only able today to get to the library to look at the second page of the manifest online. Your thread has grown a lot in a week.
I think I may have inadvertently risen to Sandra's high praise. The passenger list was indecipherable, so before I go any further I have to blame my success on--and share it with--the Bing search engine, Wikipedia, and the magnifier on Windows Photo Viewer.
At any rate, I think Thomas Boyd was going to Pencoyd, Pennsylvania, which is on the west bank of the Schuylkill River, straddling the border between Philadelphia (at City Avenue) and Montgomery County to the north. Pencoyd was at one time spelled Pencoed, which is what seems to be on the manifest. There is a check mark through the word, which is what makes the reading difficult.
I was able to make out "Penc _ _ d." And after that "P.O." Then there is a long word ending in a "k." Sandra mentioned the ending as "park." But I don't recall any town in Pennsylvania of one word ending in "-park.
I first thought that the second word might be "Manayunk," which is only long town name in Pennsylvania ending in "k" that I know. Manayunk is on the east side of the Schuylkill River, a little northwest of Philadelphia's Center City neighborhood, the heart of the city.
I also thought that "Penc _ _ d" might be near Philadelphia. A number of the towns that border on Philadelphia are named for Welsh villages and towns. So after various searches, I ended up with Pencoyd, near Manayunk. I hope I'm right!
You can see Pencoyd for yourself here: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0iev/. If you zoom in four times, you'll see the word Pencoyd appear on the map.
Hope this helps.
John :o :o :o
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As for the Thomas Boyd-Kane family connection: There are a few Kanes in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania in the 1910 U.S. census. No idea if they are related.
Go here to see them: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0iew/. If you click on the name, you'll get the entire family.
I checked the towns mentioned. They are several miles either north or northeast of Pencoyd.
John :o :o :o
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Hi John,
Virtually an impossible task to decipher the passenger list, well done for coming up with Pencoyd. Manayunk. Many thanks for all the time you have spent on this, sorry I couldn't increase the size of the image that I sent and appreciate you taking the time to make that special trip to the library. You are still a star. ;)
Take care
Sandra ;D ;D
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Many people from Ballina went to Scranton area but I can see this doesn't say that!
Best I can see is Penc...r PO then ...... park PA (perhaps).
I'd like to thank Sandra too - I am really enjoying this.
Hi Sandra: Thanks for you too, too kind words. Heywood, as you can see, also deserves credit for deciphering the destination. I followed his/her lead.
John :o :o :o
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Hi John,
Yes, you are so right - seem to have been trying to decipher the passenger list for so long - had forgotten Heywood had also spent time deciphering as well ::)
Just feel there is more to come to light yet, previous generations of Boyds who may also travelled to the USA. Mrs J Kane may have given us a lead to that generation but I haven't discovered anything so far which is a shame.
Sandra
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This is for Sandra who responded here:
Your reference included Patrick Chambers, the booking agent from Ballina for the journey discussed in this thread.
Can you tell me how to locate this record or any other records booked by Patrick Chambers of Ballina during this time period?
Thank you in advance: Merry Christmas!
/Peekaboo
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Hi Peekaboo,
The information on Patrick Chambers, the booking agent of Ballina was on the bottom of the Canada Ocean arrivals (Form 30 a) for Alexander Boyd.
Not sure where else you would find the information on Patrick Chambers unless that would be back in Ballina. Ireland - library perhaps ??
Sorry, not very helpful.
Sandra
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Thank you Sandra. I'd like to have a look at the record to see if I can ferret any more information on our Mr Chambers. Can you direct me to the source; I am not familiar with the source as you describe it.
Thank you.
/peekaboo
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From June 1, 1921 to December 31, 1924, the Department of Immigration and Colonization required that individual manifests (Form 30A, RG 76 C1j) be completed and submitted to the immigration officers at the ports of arrival, instead of the large sheet passenger list manifests previously in use. A form had to be submitted for each passenger, including children, except those in transit to the United States. The use of Form 30A was discontinued as of January 1, 1925. From that date, the use of large sheet manifests was reinstated.
Each Form 30A usually included the following details:
name of ship;- date of sailing;- port and date of arrival;
name; - age;- occupation;-birthplace;- race;
citizenship;- religion;-destination; and name of the nearest relative in the country from which the immigrant came
The information was on a subscription site to which I cannot give a link to unpaid members - unfortunately it gives no further information on Patrick Chambers
Sandra
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I have a Patrick Boyle from Co Donegal arriving Canada on 'Saturnia' 24 May 1924 going to his friend Charles Brennan 981 Tupper St Montreal.
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Incase it helps further - This Patrick Boyle crossed the border from Canada to the USA (Port of Malone) 1 st August 1924.
Patrick born Falmore. Ireland. 20 th June 1898 - Father Michael Boyle. Crohay. (Cronay ?) Dungloe. Donegal. Ireland. Had landed at Quebec on the Saturnia 1 st May 1924.
Patrick had a sister Annie Boyle in Bayonne. New Jersey.
Suspension of deportation - Alien entered without inspection on 1 st August 1924, was arrested, released on bond - disappeared, bond forfeited. Following registration under AR act. he applied for suspension of deportation under section 19c of the 1917 act and his application granted 30th July 1948
Index to Petitions for naturalization filed in New York shows the same Patrick Boyle. Born 20 th June 1898 residing 940 Edison Avenue. Bronx. New York.
Date of order of admission - 29 th February 1960.
US District Court New York - Pet No 714038
Alien Redg No - 5 678 414
Booking Agent difficult to read but could be Patrick Brennan - Dungloe ???
Sandra
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SSDI shows the same - Patrick Boyle. Born 20 th June 1898 and died January 1970
Last Residence: 10465 Bronx, Bronx, New York.
SSN was issued in New York (Before 1951)
Sandra
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That is the same Patrick Boyle. There is also a Phill Boyle on the same manifest who is also going to Charles Brennan. I have found no relationship between the Boyles and this Charles Brennan - perhaps he was some sort of immigration fixer?
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Could be that Charles Brennan was related to the Booking Agent Patrick Brennan of Dungloe.
Sandra
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I haven't found any relationship between the two. I can't see how Alexander Boyd in Mayo would make a connection to someone in Donegal.