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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: Essnell on Tuesday 13 December 11 13:15 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
Hoping to place this family in the Keighley area - probably in Cullingworth. between 1883 -1886
Mother known as Fanny Craggs - 5 children Joseph , Annie, Ellen, William, James. No fFather with them.
also known as Fanny Kelly.
Was known to family in Bingley Mr J. Crabtree.
any thoughts appreciated
Essnell
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Have you got them on 1881 census (free to search) ?
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Hi Lizdb,
Yes I have. This is where I started from. They were in Abbeystead Huts no 5 in Over Wyresdale. which is in Lancashire.
They must have moved into the Keighley area after that because the Mother Fanny Craggs or Kelly died in 1886 in Cullingworth. the younger two boys would have still been school aged, Ellen was 13. I have acquired the death Cert.
Apparently Fanny's maiden name is Massey.
I was hoping to find just where in Cullingworth they were. I had thought of electoral rolls but those would have only had men at that time.
Thanks
Essnell
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OK - so you are looking for where they were living specifically in between those specific dates 1883-1886.
Unless anything happened in the family that warranted a written record being made (e.g a birth or death, entry in a trade directory, Will) and then that record surviving, then there wont be any way to find out where they were.
What sort of people were they? Manual workers tended to leave few records other than B, M and D's, Tradespeople might have entries in Directories, Gentry tend to leave more records!
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I don't know what sort of people they were.
Possibly workers.
The "father" who seems to have died according to Ellen's accounts of being an orphan at 13 yrs was a stone mason but also worked for the railways. No very little about this person.
Mother ran a lodging house when in Lancashire,1881. The Mother died on 10 Dec 1886. The record says at Cullingworth. There is a possible marriage in 1883 - unconfirmed.
Essnell
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THere are definitely Craggs around Keighley - I see in 1881 there is another Fanny Craggs there!
Looking at 'your' Fanny in 1881, living in Lancashire, I see she states she is married - any idea where her husband was?
When she dies in 1886 (I did wonder if this death was the other Fanny Craggs, but not so likely as she is 20 years younger) who is the informant?
How is she described - does it say anything helpful like 'wife of....' or 'widow of....'. And what address is given, is it just 'Cullingworth' or any more detail?
You mention a 1883 marriage - who is this for?
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no idea where he was. I've tried to locate him but nothing seems to fit.
didn't know about the second Fanny Craggs - there are quite a lot.
Original informant was 16yr old son - Joseph
Cert altered later by stat dec from both joseph and Jabez Crabtree. I have not seen this stat dec only it is mentioned on the death cert. there are two identical records - one for Fanny Craggs and the other for Fanny Kelly. originally given as 'wife of' then changed to 'housekeeper to'.
The 1883 marriage is for Fanny Craggs at Richmond York. Nothing on John Craggs the ? . have not found who she married. there a several possibilities to this.
I am totally mystified - Essnell
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Sounds as if Fanny Kelly never did marry Mr Craggs, and for some reason these Crabtree people wanted that made clear on the death cert. That is a bit of a mystery as to why and would be interesting to pursue.
I would imagine the Fanny Craggs marriage in 1883 is the 22 yr old Fanny Craggs on 1881, who was in Keighley then, (I think, relying on memory, havent looked it up again today)
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Hi Lizdb,
For some time what you say has been in my thoughts - however I don't know how to go about this.
what interestes me is why would this person know more about"Mr & Mrs Craggs" than the family.
and why John Craggs cannot be positively located.
What evidence did mr Crabtree give to the registrar. and whose kids are this lot in reality. After Fanny died Ellen was taken in by the Crabtrees as a servant. and is with them in 1891 and the place of birth is different to that stated on the 1881 census, but is exactly as on her[Ellen's ] birth Cert. How would he have known these details.
I was told that the two young boys also went there{crabtrees] but this I haven't seen evidence of.
As you say this is a mystery that would be interesting to follow up but I have no idea where to start.
I am in Australia so getting into actual records is impossible and online searching can be doubtful.
Since Ellen is a direct relative I have a number of boxes of stuff to go through also not well organised by other now deceased family members. There might be some clues in that lot.
Ellen came to Aust. in 1900 and returned in 1912 coming back to family in 1914.
One other diversion in the plot is that Ellen said many times that an older child Sarah-ann Kelly didn't want her mother to marry. How much older she was I do not know and have never traced her.
She may have gone to USA.
Essnell.
:-\ :(
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Hi Lizdb and others,
I have just remembered and think this is correct. That Sarah-Ann Kelly had married a doctor and that they did go to the USA. I also remember being told that Sarah-anne wanted to take Ellen and her two younger brothers to USA after their mother died.
I know Ellen stayed in England but the other two who would have been 12 and 11 yrs could easily have goen to the USA.
I have not done anything on this line as yet.
Essnell
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HI Everyone,
A big "Thank-you" to anyone who has looked into this thread. It is now 2017 and the search has not progressed in any way. I have had multiple personal issues since last posting - back to it again now.......... Question.....
Is it possible to find out what the Stat. Dec attached to the Death certificate for Fanny Craggs otherwise Kelly and "housekeeper" not wife at the GRO.
If so How?
Many Thanks
Essnell