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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: zylar22 on Wednesday 14 December 11 01:42 GMT (UK)

Title: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Wednesday 14 December 11 01:42 GMT (UK)
Hello, seeking information on George Robertson. His parents according to his marriage certificate were George Robertson and Elizabeth Rose. He was born approximately 1875 in either Birmingham or Scotland (Marriage and Death certificates each have a different location of birth listed). He married Helen Dixon in 1901 in Hamilton New Zealand. His death certificate said that he spent 69 years in New Zealand and he died when he was 71 (on 15th July 1946) He was a farmer and spent most of his life in Maramarua, Waikato, New Zealand and that is where he is buried.

His children were: Olive, Daisy, Bill, Gladys, Ralph, John, Hazel, Cassy and Kathleen. He also had another daughter who died aged 7 months.

I am trying to find out if George had any other siblings. I am also trying to find out any further information about his parents as I cannot find a marriage certificate for them in the UK or any information about them arriving in New Zealand. The marriage certificate listed his father as a general labourer and the death certificate listed him as a bricklayer.

Thank you.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: rotosis on Wednesday 14 December 11 03:41 GMT (UK)
 :)

Hi.  If Georges parents married in Scotland you may need someone with Scotlands People to help do a look up for you, you can post of the Scotland forum for that.

I presume that Georges parents came to NZ with him, since it looks like he was only 2yrs old, if so have you found his parents burial? and or deaths.  It would usually say on the death certs how many kids George and Elizabeth had.   I can only find one birth that may be possible sibling, named Elizabeth Logan Robertson b. 1879. to Goerge and Elizabeth Robertson.  to find area you need to look at the fiche  at your local library, presuming your in NZ.

Another idea is to check out the Electoral Rolls on Ancestry to see if when their children (if more than George) lived with them once they had voting rights.

Happy to help if you still stuck, still looking for the ship of arrival.


Rotosis   :)
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Wednesday 14 December 11 21:08 GMT (UK)
Hi, thank you for your help.  I have been unable to located his parents burial or deaths as there are so many Elizabeth's and George's in the BDM list.  Do you know if it is typical to note whether or not the parents are deceased on the Marriage Certificate in New Zealand like they do on the ones from the UK as this may narrow down my search area as neither of his parents were listed as deceased on his marriage certificate.
I do live in New Zealand so I will try and locate where Elizabeth Logan Robertson was born as that could definitely help. I have had a look through the electoral rolls but have been unable so far to locate the family living together.
Is there a particular website that you use to find passenger lists of people arriving in New Zealand? 
Also do you know what types of things are noted in a probate record?  I have found Georges' and it is in Auckland I just wonder if there is any point in going to view it?
Thanks again.

Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Wednesday 14 December 11 21:47 GMT (UK)
Quote
Elizabeth Logan Robertson
ALTERED!!! I thought this was mother now I reread post one and see it was a sister!!
 ::)
Bye
althea
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Thamesite2017 on Wednesday 14 December 11 21:49 GMT (UK)
Marriage 1900
Name
ROBERTSON Elizabeth Logan
to REID

ADDED
Sincere apologies now I see that was a sister, she is buried Waikumete Cemetery died 1957
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 15 December 11 03:36 GMT (UK)

† Do you know if it is typical to note whether or not the parents are deceased on the Marriage Certificate in New Zealand like they do on the ones from the UK ....


Hi zylar

The question of "whether a parent was deceased" was not one that was asked in relation to NZ marriages.

[Sometimes a bride or groom might volunteer that information and at the discretion of the registrar or minister marrying them, it may have been included on the marriage record.]

† ~† Lu
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 15 December 11 04:07 GMT (UK)

 Is there a particular website that you use to find passenger lists of people arriving in New Zealand?†


Hi

The "familysearch" site has NZ Passenger Lists (with images of the original manifests also available).

But do browse the Resources Section of this board where you'll find links and other helpful information.

[Click on "New Zealand" next to green leaf - top left of this page.   That will take you to the NZ board hompage where you'll find the Resources and Offers seaction.]

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 15 December 11 04:16 GMT (UK)

Also do you know what types of things are noted in a probate record?† I have found Georges' and it is in Auckland I just wonder if there is any point in going to view it?
Thanks again.


Hi zylar

The following link will take you to the Archives New Zealand Research Guides section, where you'll find anwers to your questions re: Probate.

http://archives.govt.nz/research/guides

Click on >>† †the Personal Identity guide


† † ~ Lu
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Monday 19 December 11 01:08 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone for your help.  Most appreciated.  I will post if I work anything further out.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Friday 22 March 19 22:02 GMT (UK)
Ive come across the same issue as he is my great great grandfather
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Friday 29 March 19 05:54 GMT (UK)
I have a copy of sons death cert but tells me nothing  :'(
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Friday 29 March 19 21:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Helen, great to hear from you.  I am still no further ahead re information on George.  My partner is the one descended from him via John Dixon Robertson.  We are off to a family reunion of sorts of Robertsonís and I will ask around for further info then. I find it very confusing the marriage and death certificates listed two different birth locations.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: spades on Saturday 30 March 19 03:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Zylar22,

How about I move this topic back to the main board to see if anyone can offer advice to help you both?

Spades
Moderator
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 30 March 19 04:03 GMT (UK)
Has it been established whether Elizabeth Logan Robertson IS his sister?  (By someone buying the birth cert)

If she is, her father was George Martin Robertson of Otahuhu

He died 1883 age 30. And his wife remarried Frank Swain in 1888

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19000421.2.2.2?query=elizabeth%20logan%20Robertson%20&snippet=true

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18830818.2.9?query=george%20Martin%20Robertson%20&snippet=true


Added, sadly it looks as though George Martin Robertson married Bessie Watson in 1878

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH18780401.2.53.2?query=George%20Martin%20robertson&phrase=2&snippet=true
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 30 March 19 05:32 GMT (UK)
Not sure if this has been covered but I suggest you obtain a printout for the birth registration of at least one of the children born to George & Helen. Birthplace of the parents is one of the questions asked.

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 30 March 19 05:42 GMT (UK)
The probated will for George Robertson is available for searching on line.........

https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=9376246


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 30 March 19 06:20 GMT (UK)
You have a marriage document for George ROBERTSON, 1901.

All the information on this document is useful. Can you please list all the information.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Janette on Saturday 30 March 19 20:22 GMT (UK)
The headstone reads:. In Loving Memory of George Robertson Loved husband of Helen died 15th July 1946 aged 71 years at rest also Daphne Larah beloved infant daughter of above died July 1909 aged 7 months. Of such is the kingdom of heaven. And his beloved wife Helen died 18th Dec 1964 aged 85 yrs Loved parents of Olive, Daisy, Bill, Gladys, Ralph, John, Hazel, Cassy and Kathleen.

https://www.waikatodistrict.govt.nz/services-facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries-database/allotment/12776

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Janette on Sunday 31 March 19 00:30 GMT (UK)
Not sure if this has been covered but I suggest you obtain a printout for the birth registration of at least one of the children born to George & Helen. Birthplace of the parents is one of the questions asked.

Minniehaha.

These are available to be purchaed online Printout rather than certificate

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search?Path=%2FbirthSelect.m%3Fsort%3Dffirst#matches

1901/9853           Robertson   Olive Clara           Helen    George   
1902/12994   Robertson   Daisy Alexandra   Helen          George   
1904/4104     Robertson   William George   Helen    George
1906/4183           Robertson   Gladys Helen   Helen    George   
1909/2334           Robertson   Daphne Sarah   Helen    George   
1910/25519   Robertson   Ralph Ernest   Helen    George   
1912/23815   Robertson   John Dixon           Helen    George
1915/1873           Robertson   Hazel Muriel   Helen           George
1916/19316   Robertson   Cassy Sarah   Helen          George

I don't see a birth for Kathleen she may have been born after the 100 yr cut off

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 31 March 19 02:59 BST (UK)
A name added since birth registration?

1909/4499   Robertson   Daphne Sarah Fern   6M

1909/2334   Robertson   Daphne Sarah   Helen   George


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 31 March 19 07:30 BST (UK)
Part of a family tree for the aforementioned Elizabeth Logan Robertson.....

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Robertson-6485

Added:

1883/3527   Robertson   George Martin   29Y

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS18830818.2.9?query=george%20martin%20robertson&start_date=01-01-1839&end_date=31-12-1925&snippet=true&title=KWE,NZ,NZH,PWT,ROTWKG,TO,ACNZC,AKTIM,NZHAG,ALG,AS,DSC


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Thursday 18 April 19 04:40 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone, thank you for your help.  I will order a copy of the birth certificate of one of his children and see what it says. 

I have been unable to attach a copy of the marriage certificate due to size issues, but I have the details below:

Marriage - 13th February 1901
At the home of Mr John Dixon in Hamilton East

George was 25, a Farm labourer, Bachelor from Birmingham, England.  His usual and present residence was Hautapu NZ.  His parents were George Robertson (Labourer) and Elizabeth Robertson nee Rose.

He married Helen Dixon age 21, spinster from Hamilton.  Her parents were John Dixon (Settler) and Clara Dixon nee Bradley.

The witnesses were Sarah Morris and Ernest Morris (Carpenter).

Am still seeking info on any siblings and how and when he arrived in NZ and any info on his parents.

Thanks. 
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Janette on Thursday 18 April 19 05:53 BST (UK)
Hello Everyone, thank you for your help.  I will order a copy of the birth certificate of one of his children and see what it says. 

a printout is the preferred option it is a copy of the register entry where as a certificate is a legal document and is transcibed from the register

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Tuesday 28 January 20 01:07 GMT (UK)
Hello
Just following up on this post again. I finally got a printout of one of Georgeís children birth record as suggested earlier in this thread. Please see attached.
It confirms he was born in Birmingham around 1876.
I still have got no further with finding records of him in Birmingham etc.
So still stuck, so any help would be appreciated.
Most of the information I know about him is in my first post on this thread.
Thanks
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 28 January 20 01:37 GMT (UK)
You could try putting a request re his birth on the England board......

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/warwickshire/


By the way, I am not able to open the birth document. I receive the message "failed to load"....... ???


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: spades on Tuesday 28 January 20 02:21 GMT (UK)
It did open for me, at least.

Spades
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: spades on Tuesday 28 January 20 02:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Zylar,

I apologise if you have already tried any or all of these ideas, but just in case...

I would suggest contacting Birmingham Archives to see what resources they have on the family.
https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/archives

Provide as much information as you can, names, dates, occupation.

Also check the UK census. Probably find George on the 1881 Census (probably aged about 5) and then look for the family in the 1871 Census.

Also search Ancestry for his parents marriage.

It wasn't clear from my quick scroll down the topic, but did his parents also emigrate to New Zealand?

Spades

Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Tuesday 28 January 20 03:17 GMT (UK)
It did open for me, at least.

Spades


And it is now opening for me too.... ???   ::)


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 28 January 20 06:18 GMT (UK)
Did anyone ever buy the Elizabeth Logan Robertson birth?
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Tuesday 28 January 20 06:57 GMT (UK)
Quote from: spades

It wasn't clear from my quick scroll down the topic, but did his parents also emigrate to New Zealand?

Spades
[/quote

I am only assuming that his parents emigrated as his death certificate (if correct) indicates he arrived in NZ when he was around 2 years old.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Tuesday 28 January 20 06:59 GMT (UK)
Quote from: spades
ďIt wasn't clear from my quick scroll down the topic, but did his parents also emigrate to New Zealand?Ē

Spades
[/quote]


I am only assuming that his parents emigrated as his death certificate (if correct) indicates he arrived in NZ when he was around 2 years old.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Saturday 20 June 20 02:05 BST (UK)
I have spent days searching +/- 5 years for Emigration records, nothing. I have searched for anything on George Born in Birmingham, even the GRO, nothing. Copy of Marriage Licence attached. Nothing I can find on his father George or his mother. I even took a punt at the Convict records for Tasmania, nothing. Its like he is a dead end with no past.
Blimmin great great grandfather too, my grandfather was his son Ralph Robertson. Im at a total loss now, I've hunted all I can and I do genealogy, I've exhausted all my avenues. Has anyone had any updates???
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Saturday 20 June 20 08:32 BST (UK)
Hi

I am the one who started this post, and I have continued to try and find out additional information over the years as well but have go nowhere.  George is my partners great great grandfather.  His grandfather was John Dixon.  I have recently been trying to look at records related to Hautapu near Cambridge NZ, as I had noted on the marriage certificate that that is where he was living.  Other family members are buried in the area (Olive Clara nee Robertson, who was Foote and then Hartman after her first husband died).  I did find references in papers past to a young George Robertson at Cambridge District School on 2 December 1884 and a boy called George Robertson breaking windows on 26 January 1884. Hard to know if it is actually him given the common name though. 

Georgesí Will said nothing of interest and I have asked all the family members that I am in contact with if they know anything and have reached a dead end as well. 

The closest I have come to a potential marriage is a George Robertson marrying an Elizabeth Groves (sounds similar to Rose??) in June 1874 in St. George Hanover Square on the freebdm.org.uk site.

Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Saturday 20 June 20 22:21 BST (UK)
Thank you so much. I cant even locate his father, but will look into Elizabeth Groves.
I do have a photograph, it used to hang on my grandfathers wall, he told me it was his grand parents, and when I first started genealogy back years ago when I was 16 I found George and Elizabeth but that's all he wanted to know and didn't want any further, just wanted the names of those hanging on his wall. I will clean it up as it was in storage at my cousins and post a photo of it on here. I have all his wife Thelma Robertson nee Otto's information and tree, its huge! Happy to share all I have as I only so far have back to John Dixon from my great grandmother Helen Dixon, as I haven't started that branch as yet, as I have been doing many branches of many families.
We were always told we were related to the Arundel castle Robertson's but I very much doubt it, as he was English ha ha.
I really appreciate all your posts and information, maybe one day we might find the blasted mans information, hes a ghost!
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 20 June 20 22:29 BST (UK)
Quote
The closest I have come to a potential marriage is a George Robertson marrying an Elizabeth Groves (sounds similar to Rose??) in June 1874 in St. George Hanover Square on the freebdm.org.uk site.

ROBERTSON, EDWARD  GEORGE     ROSE 
GRO Reference: 1878  J Quarter in ST GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE  Volume 01A  Page 382

ROBERTSON, THOMAS  LAMOUNT     ROSE 
GRO Reference: 1876  M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE  Volume 01A  Page 378

Are both accounted for in  London in 1902.

 
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 20 June 20 23:06 BST (UK)
I found those births too, but felt the area was so far removed from Birmingham. In more ways than one.  :)


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 21 June 20 00:20 BST (UK)
Yes, I only posted them to positively rule them out.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 21 June 20 01:34 BST (UK)
BDM New Zealand births  (parents for all George / Helen)

1901/9853   ROBERTSON   Olive Clara   
1902/12994   ROBERTSON   Daisy Alexandra   
1904/4104   ROBERTSON   William George   
1906/4183   ROBERTSON   Gladys Helen   
1909/2334   ROBERTSON   Daphne Sarah   
1910/25519   ROBERTSON   Ralph Ernest      
1912/23815   ROBERTSON   John Dixon   
1913/15657   ROBERTSON   Sarah Dickson      
1915/22317   ROBERTSON   Joseph Dinwoodie  (b. 3 May 1915)   
1915/1873   ROBERTSON   Hazel Muriel   
1916/19316   ROBERTSON   Cassy Sarah         
1917/17454   ROBERTSON   Mary Love   

Death
1909/4499   ROBERTSON   Daphne Sarah Fern   6M
Where  does the name Fern come from?

Reply #10  death record attachment, George ROBERTSON, died 1946
issue - Males 41y (William George)   36y (Ralph Ernest)  34y (John Dixon)
        - Females 45y (Olive Clara)   44y (Daisy Alexandra)  40y (Gladys Helen)
                       31y (Hazel Muriel)  30y (Cassy Sarah)     25y (??)

Is Sarah Dickson the 25 year old daughter?

What happened to Mary Love ROBERTSON, b. 1917?

On this same death certificate, George ROBERTSON, 1946....4th column from the right, and what I suspect is details of marriage.......(1) Hamilton....(2)  25.....(3) Helen DIXON.....(4)  64

What doe 64 refer to?  Who is the informant for this death record? Recording children of the deceased...does it ask for living children only......or are deceased children to be recorded also?

Birth 1915, Joseph Dinwoodie ROBERTSON is not likely to be born to George and Helen but I do not see another ROBERTSON George / Helen combination. I include Joseph for interest only.

George ROBERTSON, with mother Elizabeth Rose, and having several daughters, each with two given names, does not name one of them Elizabeth after his mother?
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 21 June 20 01:47 BST (UK)
SEE REPLY # 18 for births.

Added:and reply #17 for names of children.

Data collected:

Deceased

When and where died
Name and surname
Rank or profession or occupation
Sex and Age
Detail of Death

Cause of death
Duration of last illness
Medical attendant who certified the cause of death and when they last saw the deceased
Parents

Name and Surname of father
Name and if known maiden surname of mother
Rank or profession or occupation of father
Burial Details

When and where buried
Name and Religion of Minister or name of witness of burial
Birth Details

Where born
How long in New Zealand
Marriage Details

Where married
At what age married
Children
If living issue, the number, age and sex
To whom married
Informant

Signature, description and residence of informant
If the entry is a correction of a former entry signature of witnesses
Who witnessed the correction.
Registrar

Signature of registrar
Date of registration

Added:Informant was Twentyman, undertaker. [Usual procedure for registration.]

Added: "4" refers to 'age of widow if living'.

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 21 June 20 02:02 BST (UK)

"1915/22317   ROBERTSON   Joseph Dinwoodie  (b. 3 May 1915)


1915/1873   ROBERTSON   Hazel Muriel  [date of birth:14.1.1915]


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Janette on Sunday 21 June 20 02:11 BST (UK)

Added:Informant was Twentyman, undertaker. [Usual procedure for registration.]

Minniehaha.

Twentyman's have been in business since 1867 and have great records.
Their email is at the bottom right of this link :

https://www.twentymans.co.nz

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: minniehaha on Sunday 21 June 20 04:13 BST (UK)
From reply #37...

There is every indication that these children do not belong to the family being researched:


1917/17454   ROBERTSON   Mary Love   
1913/15657   ROBERTSON   Sarah Dickson   
1915/22317   ROBERTSON   Joseph Dinwoodie

Minniehaha.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Sunday 21 June 20 21:44 BST (UK)
I agree Minniehaha.
Its great to have this forum to work with, I thought I was going insane as I couldn't find him.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Sunday 21 June 20 21:51 BST (UK)

I do have a photograph, it used to hang on my grandfathers wall, he told me it was his grand parents, and when I first started genealogy back years ago when I was 16 I found George and Elizabeth but that's all he wanted to know and didn't want any further, just wanted the names of those hanging on his wall. I will clean it up as it was in storage at my cousins and post a photo of it on here.

My partner and I would love to see a photo! Thank you
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Sunday 21 June 20 22:03 BST (UK)
Ralph Ernest Robertson Born 17 June 1910 Hamilton, New Zealand
Married Thelma Zena Grace Otto 24 Sept 1938 Methodist Church, Tuakau, New Zealand
Died 3 Feb 1994 in Auckland, New Zealand
Buried Maramarua Cemetery, New Zealand Row 1. Plot 64

Children: 
Trevor Ralph Robertson (my father) Born 11 Oct 1939, Thames, New Zealand
Married Edna May Dean 25 Mar 1961, Methodist Church, Waihi, New Zealand
Divorced 11 June 1986, Auckland District Court
Died 19 Nov 2014, Thames, New Zealand
Ashes not interred

Lynette Grace Costello Born 16 June 1942 Thames, New Zealand
Ex husband still living
Died 11 Feb 2009, Thames, New Zealand
Ashes Buried Maramarua Cemetery Berm 2. Plot 4

Cheryl Zena Burton Born 24 Mar 1946, Thames, New Zealand
Married Collin Williams (still loading information)
Married twice
Died 24 July 2008
Buried Maramarua Cemetery Berm 2. Plot 6

One more living daughter

This is my branch of the Robertson Family.
https://www.myheritage.com/site-family-tree-608098651/fisher-family?rootIndivudalID=1500421&familyTreeID=1


Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Sunday 21 June 20 22:03 BST (UK)
I will get that photo sorted today :)
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Sunday 21 June 20 22:08 BST (UK)
From reply #37...

There is every indication that these children do not belong to the family be researched:


1917/17454   ROBERTSON   Mary Love   
1913/15657   ROBERTSON   Sarah Dickson   
1915/22317   ROBERTSON   Joseph Dinwoodie

Minniehaha.


I agree
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Sunday 21 June 20 23:01 BST (UK)
Photo Attached.
My grandfather Ralph had this hanging in his lounge, always told us it was his grand parents George and Elizabeth, one of the few things he had. I will take it out of frame but for now this is what I have  :D
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Janette on Monday 22 June 20 03:17 BST (UK)
Ralph Ernest Robertson Maramarua cemetery

https://www.waikatodistrict.govt.nz/services-facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries-database/allotment/12777

Daughter Lynette

https://www.waikatodistrict.govt.nz/services-facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries-database/allotment/17784

Cheryl

https://www.waikatodistrict.govt.nz/services-facilities/cemeteries/cemeteries-database/allotment/17786

Cheers Janette
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Monday 22 June 20 03:59 BST (UK)
Photo Attached.
My grandfather Ralph had this hanging in his lounge, always told us it was his grand parents George and Elizabeth, one of the few things he had. I will take it out of frame but for now this is what I have  :D

Thank you!!  Is it OK if I share it on Facebook so decedents of John Dixon can see it?  I know that two of his children donít know what their grandparents looked like.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Monday 22 June 20 06:36 BST (UK)
Photo Attached.
My grandfather Ralph had this hanging in his lounge, always told us it was his grand parents George and Elizabeth, one of the few things he had. I will take it out of frame but for now this is what I have  :D

Thank you!!  Is it OK if I share it on Facebook so decedents of John Dixon can see it?  I know that two of his children donít know what their grandparents looked like.


Yes thats fine, I still haven't taken it out of frame, and going by my grand fathers story, Im really really hoping this is them!!!
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Monday 22 June 20 07:40 BST (UK)
Taken out of frame, sadly no names on back. But easier to see without reflection.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Monday 22 June 20 08:10 BST (UK)
Taken out of frame, sadly no names on back. But easier to see without reflection.

Thank you!! It is nice to see what they look like. I never thought I would ever get a photo.

I always assumed they are buried in NZ somewhere. So I will just have to keep searching.

I wonder if this was taken anywhere near Maramarua?  Would love to know where they lived but it seems we might never know.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Monday 22 June 20 22:29 BST (UK)
Judging by the tree I would say England somehow. At this stage we just do not know, so frustrating!!!!
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 23 June 20 02:02 BST (UK)
From the opening post

Quote
His death certificate said that he spent 69 years in New Zealand and he died when he was 71 (on 15th July 1946)

Which would suggest his parents were with him.
Assuming of course that that information is correct.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Tuesday 23 June 20 10:52 BST (UK)
Taken out of frame, sadly no names on back. But easier to see without reflection.

Hi Helen
Does it look like it is snowing in the photo or is it just the age of the photo?? Looking for clues!  If they are in NZ, it is most likely South Island but if the photo is taken in UK who knows!!
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Monday 22 November 21 02:24 GMT (UK)
Hello

I was hoping someone may be able to help me with looking into a potential marriage for George's parents.

I found a record for a George Richardson marrying an Eliza Rose on FreeBMD for December 1873 in Bingham Vol 7b pg 757. This of course would mean that Richardson became Robertson at some stage when he moved to New Zealand.

In the 1891 census I found a George Richardson (b Oxton) and Eliza Rose (b Kinoulton) and a son George Richardson b Oxton in 1875 (He was 16 on the census).  I can't find the George born in 1875 after this census and am wondering if this if the George I am looking for as this is right for his estimated year or birth?

I am unsure as to whether I may possibly be on the right track.... so I would appreciate any other information that could be provided on this family and George.

Thank you
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Monday 22 November 21 06:03 GMT (UK)
zylar22 that is very interesting............I may just have to hunt this line of enquiry ha ha
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Monday 22 November 21 06:51 GMT (UK)
Zylar22, I cant find that.
From records George Robertson (we will call him 2nd) was born 1875-1876 in "Birmingham" according to marriage record and discounting year of marriage and age 25 it works out to 1876 (if he was telling truth of age), mother Elizabeth Rose, Father George 1st, marriage to wife Helen Dixon 13 Feb 1901 (father George 1st was still alive as listed as laborer and parents if deceased was noted on certs.
I've looked up dates, immigration records to NZ, still cant find the sod (George 2nd)!!! Im not sure about the Richardson, or the Eliza, as this could be shortened but usually full names were used in official documents.
On your post it was in Bingham, do you mean Birmingham??? This has been a mystery..............and unless some miracle Im not sure we will find an answer
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 22 November 21 07:02 GMT (UK)
George RICHARDSON (The father) died 1900. Farmer of Southwell, Notts.
Administration to Eliza. So getting his will will not be helpful 

Possibly that is George RICHARDSON the son, a Butler in 1901,  at the Mansion House, Oxton Hall.

Piece:   3192
Folio:   124
Page Number:   6
Household Schedule Number:   41
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Monday 22 November 21 09:32 GMT (UK)
On your post it was in Bingham, do you mean Birmingham??? This has been a mystery..............and unless some miracle Im not sure we will find an answer

Hi Helen
It was Bingham rather than Birmingham. I will try and attach a copy. It was the potential confusion between Bingham and Birmingham which also caught my eye.

I hadnít thought about the fact that the marriage certificate would say deceased if the parent was deceased. That is a very good point.

George 2nd is such a mystery. I have recently contacted two other descendants and they have no information on him either.

Will keep searchingÖ..
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Lucy2 on Tuesday 23 November 21 22:55 GMT (UK)
Hello
Just following up on this post again. I finally got a printout of one of Georgeís children birth record as suggested earlier in this thread.    *Please see attached. [*Refer to link at Reply # 23 ]
It confirms he was born in Birmingham around 1876.

Hello zylar

Sorry, not able to help much at this stage. 

I note that the NZ birth printout you received, was for his firstborn who arrived a matter of months after the marriage (also) in 1901.

Haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but do you (or the other researcher Helen) have the birth printouts (or certs) for Ralph Ernest - born 1910 and John Dixon - born 1912 and if so, do they also show "Birmingham" as George ROBERTSON's place of birth ??

    ~  Lu

[* When I selected above quote, it didn't automatically bring up the link for the attachment you mentioned.    It can though be found at Reply # 23.  ]
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Wednesday 24 November 21 00:23 GMT (UK)
George RICHARDSON (The father) died 1900. Farmer of Southwell, Notts.
Administration to Eliza. So getting his will will not be helpful 

Possibly that is George RICHARDSON the son, a Butler in 1901,  at the Mansion House, Oxton Hall.

Piece:   3192
Folio:   124
Page Number:   6
Household Schedule Number:   41

Thank you very much for finding and posting this record.  I will follow it up.
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Wednesday 24 November 21 00:25 GMT (UK)
Hello
Just following up on this post again. I finally got a printout of one of Georgeís children birth record as suggested earlier in this thread.    *Please see attached. [*Refer to link at Reply # 23 ]
It confirms he was born in Birmingham around 1876.

Hello zylar

Sorry, not able to help much at this stage. 

I note that the NZ birth printout you received, was for his firstborn who arrived a matter of months after the marriage (also) in 1901.

Haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but do you (or the other researcher Helen) have the birth printouts (or certs) for Ralph Ernest - born 1910 and John Dixon - born 1912 and if so, do they also show "Birmingham" as George ROBERTSON's place of birth ??

    ~  Lu

[* When I selected above quote, it didn't automatically bring up the link for the attachment you mentioned.    It can though be found at Reply # 23.  ]

Thank you for the suggestion.  I don't have the printouts for Ralph or John.  I will see if Helen replies as to whether she has them otherwise I might order them.

 
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Wednesday 24 November 21 00:26 GMT (UK)
Hello
Just following up on this post again. I finally got a printout of one of Georgeís children birth record as suggested earlier in this thread.    *Please see attached. [*Refer to link at Reply # 23 ]
It confirms he was born in Birmingham around 1876.

Hello zylar

Sorry, not able to help much at this stage. 

I note that the NZ birth printout you received, was for his firstborn who arrived a matter of months after the marriage (also) in 1901.

Haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but do you (or the other researcher Helen) have the birth printouts (or certs) for Ralph Ernest - born 1910 and John Dixon - born 1912 and if so, do they also show "Birmingham" as George ROBERTSON's place of birth ??

    ~  Lu

[* When I selected above quote, it didn't automatically bring up the link for the attachment you mentioned.    It can though be found at Reply # 23.  ]
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 24 November 21 01:07 GMT (UK)
Hi zylar

My thinking with the birth printouts for Ralph and John Dixon, was that these boys were born 10/11 years after their sister Olive Clara (1901),  and so it's worth checking on what was on their birth registrations all those years later, regarding father's birthplace.    It may be too that the father George was the person registering these births ??  ... in which case you'd have another ("reliable") source if  "Birmingham" were to show up.  ;)

Like you, I'm puzzled that George's death printout gives "Scotland" as place of birth.   
[As with many NZ Death records, the Undertaker's name is usually stated as the informant to the death.]   
But, George had many children (and a widow) when he died.   

*  Did any of them live close by ?   
*  Can you think of an immediate family member who might have supplied info to the funeral director/undertaker.     

    ~  Lu

Edit :   sp. correction

 
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Wednesday 24 November 21 08:20 GMT (UK)
Hi All,
No I don't have poppas birth certificate (Ralph), was going to order them at some stage in the future as it costs and I am limited on funds at the moment. I am Ralph's son - Trevor Robertson's daughter (just to explain how I am related, my maiden name was Robertson).
I am thinking at the time George 2nd died it was Scotland was place of birth but all other docs so far say Birmingham of what I have, but then I don't have many due to cost. Not even Poppas death certificate, Robertson family didn't keep those things dammit!!!!
I'm not sure who may have supplied the information of his death, I've been doing genealogy on and off for many years.  In most cases the father registered the child when born, so Birmingham may have been what he said too. At time of death there were the ages of all children listed, I have the original from the death register book from Thames. And his parents listed were just surnames Robertson, which is interesting! And says he had been in NZ for 69 years, which means he was aged two when immigrating, but I am yet to find records of emigration! Cause surely his family would have at that age, still hunting. I admit I have even checked convict records just incase. Its a real mystery, but Im not giving up!!!
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: Lucy2 on Wednesday 24 November 21 09:34 GMT (UK)
Hello

Yes, I fully understand cost being a factor in not purchasing records ... and I wasn't suggesting birth records actually be purchased.    ;)
Wondered if either you or zylar had been in contact with others researching the family and whether they might have info from birth registrations they could share with you ?

*   Death record for George ROBERTSON  (1946) has already been added to this thread ... at Reply # ... 10

It has to be remembered too, that death certificates are never a totally reliable source of information.

     ~  Lu
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Wednesday 24 November 21 22:25 GMT (UK)
Lucy2
On my side I am the only one researching and wanting to find information, and to give to give my aunt some information as she knew nothing, she is the only surviving daughter of Ralph. Last night I spent an hour or two going through immigration records, nothing that matches parents George and Elizabeth or George 2nd. SIGH I also tried other spellings. I'm hoping it just hits on something in the future.........if I hunt hard enough.
On George 2nd daughters Olive Clara's Birth she was registered by Agent J A? Storey " Agent authorised in writing by Clara Dixon person present at birth" (Helens sister) and in name of child Olive Clara "not present", she was registered 2 months later 17th August 1901 in Thames, but born 23rd June 1901, that's interesting why it took so long to register her, father listed as born Birmingham England
I wish I had a time machine!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Thursday 25 November 21 22:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Helen

I hope you donít mind but I put the photo of George and Elizabeth that you posted onto the photo dating section of rootschat. See link below. It seems it is Edwardian (mid decade so around 1905) so that means they were definitely still alive in 1901 as you had confirmed in one of your posts.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=855724.new#new
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Thursday 25 November 21 22:31 GMT (UK)
More than happy with you sharing  :)
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: zylar22 on Friday 26 November 21 22:10 GMT (UK)
Hi again Helen,

I asked the forum if they could hazard a guess about whether the photo of George and Elizabeth is likely taken in the UK or NZ. A response asked if there is a photographers stamp or mark on the back? Or some identifying mark. I remember you said it had no names on the back though.

Thank you
Title: Re: George Robertson
Post by: HelenAttwood on Tuesday 30 November 21 08:33 GMT (UK)
HI Zylar22
Nope nothing on the back at all, it was in a frame I must restore that was timber but no identifying marks or anything at all.
Im still hunting, still not finding anything on George 1st at all :( Or much on 2nd apart from what we have.