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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: M S Harmer on Wednesday 14 December 11 10:50 GMT (UK)
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My grandmother left a lot of names but no dates, places, ect;
Looking for info on a James Wallace who possibly married a Catherine Tulloch 1st marriage mid to late 1800's
children are possibly ;
? daughter married a ? Sutherland
Meg
Mart or Martha
Donald
William
Jessie
2nd Marriage to a Rebecca Micalmore ?
1 child that we know of, Robert
There is even mention of a James Wallace married to a Agnes Tweadle ?
Any help would be greatful
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Hi,
There is a tree on the ancestry site that has James Wallace born 1836 Ireland, parents James Wallace and Rebecca McLemoyle, married to Catherine Tulloch, the same tree has Catherine Tulloch born 1838 in Argyll parents David Tulloch and Margaret Fleming.
Regards
Lyne
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Hi
James WALLACE married Catherine TULLOCH 17th Sept 1860, Calton Reg Dist, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
They had the following children
James WALLACE 15th Oct 1860, Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
Rebecca WALLACE 25th Nov 1861 Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
Mary WALLACE 15th May 1865 Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
David Tulloch WALLACE 18th Feb 1867 Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
Rebecca WALLACE 5th Nov 1869 Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
Mary WALLACE 17th May 1872 Bonhill Reg Dist, Dunbarton
Catherine Tulloch WALLACE 15th Sept 1874 Bonhill Reg Dist, Dunbarton
The above are sourced from the Familysearch IGI which has indexed Scottish births and marriages 1855 to 1875 from the Statutory Registers. You can download register images of the above from Scotlandspeople, and also check for events after 1875.
Andy
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Hi M S Harmer,
On http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk , there is a death for a Catherine Wallace nee Tulloch who was 46 in 1892 in Hutchesontown, Glasgow. This maybe the correct one, but with the births that andycand supplied, first child would be born when she would have only been 14. Possible but will need more evidence to confirm.
Tom
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Hi Everyone
I have previously posted on other current threads of M S Harmer, including suggestions to try to contact RChatter Martin Harmer who has several current threads searching for surnames common to MS Harmer
May I suggest that some of the Sutherland children may be born in Australia and possibly their forebears Tulloch or Wallace may be Australian migrants ...
I think some Aussie BDM certificates would give details to help with years born/married/died to allow MS Harmer give more clues to help advance this thread
MS, when did your Grandmother die and was she Grace Harmer with M.S. of Sutherland who you may have as visiting Scotland in the 1930s .. was she already an adult at that time I ask this to help RChatters gain a sense of the decades to help look for Tulloch and/or Wllace for you.
Cheers JM
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Just adding the link to previous post for background www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,554403.0.html
Monica :)
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Thanks to all for info , looks to be on the right track.
I wander if the info on the Tulloch branch could be expanded.
This weekend I will also look at the sites mentioned.
The more info I recieve the better , even if it means sorting out those which do not connect.
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The more info I recieve the better , even if it means sorting out those which do not connect.
It is hard for people to be able to help in this way to be honest :-\ People trying to help need some confirmation of fact to then be able to focus any research on what has been found to date, otherwise the research (and people's time) can turn out to be meaningless.
Picking up on some info from the other post linked above:
Gladys Ethel Sutherland was born 1911 in Sth Australia,
her father was William Alexander Sutherland born 1882 in Sth Australia, all his siblings died either in Australia and New Zealand.
So, Gladys born in 1911 in Australia. Her father was William Sutherland. What was her mother's name? It is this name that then helps in some way to link back to Scotland and hopefully some of the info being found.
I can see a marriage 24 October 1936 (confirmed that is indexed as 1936) in South Australia for Urlwin Kempson Harmer and Gladys Ethel Sutherland.
Do you have a copy of that marriage registration?
Have you been able to confirm this info? At least, confirmation of mother's name would help, as mentioned.
Monica
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Hi
James WALLACE married Catherine TULLOCH 17th Sept 1860, Calton Reg Dist, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
They had the following children
James WALLACE 15th Oct 1860, Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
Rebecca WALLACE 25th Nov 1861 Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
Mary WALLACE 15th May 1865 Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
David Tulloch WALLACE 18th Feb 1867 Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
Rebecca WALLACE 5th Nov 1869 Hutchestown Reg Dist, Glasgow
Mary WALLACE 17th May 1872 Bonhill Reg Dist, Dunbarton
Catherine Tulloch WALLACE 15th Sept 1874 Bonhill Reg Dist, Dunbarton
The above are sourced from the Familysearch IGI which has indexed Scottish births and marriages 1855 to 1875 from the Statutory Registers. You can download register images of the above from Scotlandspeople, and also check for events after 1875.
Andy
This could be the family on 1871 census
James Wallace 35 born Ireland Occupation: Cabinetmaker
Catherine Wallace 30 born: Lochgilphead, Argyleshire
David Wallace 4 born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Rebecca Wallace 1 born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Address: Glens Bridge St Bonhill
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Hi MS
Please let us know what BDM certificates you currently have
Cheers JM
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Hi MS,
Do you have the Sth Australian birth certificate for your Gran, Gladys Sutherland, born 1911?
Do you have the Sth Australian birth certificate for your Gran's father, William Alexander Sutherland, born 1882?
Do you have the death certificate for the father of William Alexander Sutherland?
Cheers, JM
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Hello,
My Great Grandfather was James Tulloch Wallace Married to Agnes Tweeddale sometimes spelt Tweadle (of Tweedale) family name Hay. Both born Glasgow. They had a business in or near Manchester. Their children were William Hay, Eva an Kenneth James.
I think Eva married a french man and her son or sons died during the 2nd world war.
Kenneth married Mary Campbell Sinclair 19/7/1930 at Kersal Salford they had no issue. His address at the time was Prestwich and by then his father James was deceased.
My grandparents William Hay Wallace and Hilda Hoey. They arrived at Fremantle Western Australia about 1927 with their three children William Hoey dec., John Hoey dec. and Kathleen Hoey. Born Lincoln Eng.
William married and moved to Mt Gambia South Australia and his decendants are in SA, VIC, NSW.
Kathleens family are all in WA.
My father John (known as Jack) decendents are all in and around Perth WA except for one in QLD.
I think we may be searching the same tree.
Hope this helps.
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Hi Nola,
Welcome to RootsChat, it is just the bestest place for helping with family history researchings.
If you make two more posts, you will have full access to all of RChat, and that means you would be able to contact MS Harmer, via the PM (Private/Personal Messages) system, and so perhaps validate your research by swapping copies of certificates or other official documents.
Just reply twice more on this thread :) even if to write "Hi" each time.
Cheers, JM (not a relative, just an RChatter based in NSW )
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Hi Nola Wallace,
it's been a while since I've looked at the Sutherland tree.
In regards to the name Tweedle the only references I have to that name come from an old birthday book that belonged to my grandmother, they are as follows;
Mr Tweedle was Mayor of Brighton, Adelaide abt 1924
Mr or mrs Tweedle died 22nd Dec. 1941
They were passengers on board the ship The Oaklands
Arrived Port Adelaide 9 Sep. 1877
The book also mentions that he or she returned to Scotland but died at sea in 1928.
Other names mentioned in the book are ;
Mrs Corrigan
Mrs McDonald
Mrs Robertson
Mrs McPhie
Mrs Driscoll
If any of this is of any help could you let me know as I have nothing on them and had no idea that there was a connection to the Wallace branch. I'd also like to know if any of it is correct.
I have part of there tree, James Wallace and Catherine Tulloch and there 7 children.
I'd love to see what you have and maybe add to what I have.
Regards
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Hello MS Harmer,
James Tulloch Wallace could be the eldest son. I read James Wallace Snr died overseas and Catherine returned to Lanarkshire to live out her life. I have found Families of Mcilmoyle, Wallace and Tulloch in Londonderry Northern Island and have been researching there lately. I will visit my Aunt Kathleen in the next few days and ask her if she knows any of the names on your list. Aunty has told me there was a connection to Ireland on the Wallace side. By the way, where do you live?
Nola
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Hi MS Harmer, Sorry have not been doing this for a while. Aunty didn't know the names as her father died when she was very young and the only person they were in contact with after that was Eva. My grandfather fell out with his father and that is when they came out to Australia. James and James's father both used the nick name Jas and they were both salters.(miners) - James Wallace & Co. Mines at Kilsyth, Boghead, Neilson partner in William Baird & Co and Eglington Iron. Found Jas Wallace on the passenger lists around 1900 twice on his own and once with his wife. They stopped at Fremantle, Albany and Adelaide. My James Tulloch Wallace had a sister Catherine Tulloch Wallace married to Sutherland and is listed on Scotland records in a divorce along with her brothers and a Thomas Tulloch. When I opened the site the page was blank. Your Martha Tulloch must have been Catherine's younger sister.
The spelling of Mcelmoyle keeps changing throughout the same family. The modern spelling is Mcilmoyle. I found Rev James Wallace and John Mcelmoyle in the same town near Antrim Ireland. John Mcelmoyle left Ireland as a 35 yr old single man around 1796 (flight of the loyalists) and went to America. Then because of American Independence and being on the side of the English he moved to Canada. There he married Mary Dysart. They had Rebecca and Thomas (British Secret Service).
Found William Wallace with sons William & James of Stradreagh near Londonderry (flax growers & harvested salt on their farm) on the passenger records from Londonderry to Nova Scotia around 1803. One of these Williams married Shaw and they continued with salt harvesting in Canada. They were loyalists. Found marriage record for James Wallace -m- Rebecca Mcelmoyle in Canada they had one son only James Wallace -m- Catherine Tulloch in Glasgow. Rebecca Died Glasgow 1863 just after their son was married. Her husband went to America, remarried and had more children. He is listed as a descendant of the Wallace's from Elderslie. Their eldest son was James Tulloch Wallace -m- Agnes Tweeddale born Agnes Morgan Hay. This was her second marriage 1st was to Maxwell she is on the peerage list. Her brother and sister married into the Baird family. These two were visiting Australia.
The Flemming and Tulloch families also went to Canada. This is probably enough for now. Have a lovey Xmas Nola Wallace
Posted on behalf of Nola who had replied directly to RootsChat :)
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Suspect that there's been quite a bit of a mix-up here regarding James Wallace marrying Agnes Tweeddale who was also Agnes Morgan Hay :-\
There was an Agnes Morgan Hay (listed in Peerage site, etc.) who married (1865 India) General Edward Herbert Maxwell but 1926 probate record lists her as Agnes Moyan Hay or Maxwell died Edinburgh, Scotland (it's very common in Scotland for woman to continue using their maiden name after marriage).
Christening: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTTY-H79
http://www.thepeerage.com/p45983.htm
According to what's already been posted, James Wallace married (1860 Glasgow) Catherine Tulloch and their eldest son was also called James (born 1860 Glasgow).
It certainly looks like some Australian, and then Scottish, certificates do need to be checked to untangle this.
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My Great Grandfather was James Tulloch Wallace Married to Agnes Tweeddale sometimes spelt Tweadle (of Tweedale) family name Hay. Both born Glasgow. They had a business in or near Manchester. Their children were William Hay, Eva an Kenneth James.
I think Eva married a french man and her son or sons died during the 2nd world war.
Kenneth married Mary Campbell Sinclair 19/7/1930 at Kersal Salford they had no issue. His address at the time was Prestwich and by then his father James was deceased.
Eva Kathleen Rebeccca Wallace married 30 July 1914 Prestwich to Harold Ernest Ray Thomas, engineer. Father James Tulloch Wallace, paint manufacturer
Agnes Tweeddale Wallace born c1862 Gorbals, Glasgow died 4 Jan.1921 in England. Certainly not the Agnes Morgan Hay Maxwell who died in 1926 in Edinburgh, Scotland.
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And finally...
My grandparents William Hay Wallace and Hilda Hoey. They arrived at Fremantle Western Australia about 1927 with their three children William Hoey dec., John Hoey dec. and Kathleen Hoey. Born Lincoln Eng.
"Ballarat" departed London, England 25 Nov.1926 for Fremantle, Australia
William Wallace, age 46, motor eng.
wife Mrs Hilda Wallace, age 27, and children William (3), John (2), Athleen (1)
Address- 46 Newland? St. W. Lincoln
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Hi M S Harmer,
From memory I found David Tulloch and Margaret Flemming on a census in Canada and they did have a child Martha older sister Catherine.
Rebecca and James married Canada around 1820 James Tulloch Wallace born 1860 to Catherine. Rachael was grandmother too old for children and I read they only had one son James who married Catherine Tulloch, My James was born about 7 months after Catherine and James married. I will go through my files and get dates for you when I have time but James Tulloch Wallace also had a sister Rachael Tulloch Wallace and I read her tree and Catherine was mother, Rachael was Grandmother same as I have found. I know James Tulloch Wallace died in Conetecuit USA and Catherine returned to Lanark Scotland to live out her life. A lot of information comes from The Book of Wallace Vol 1. It's confusing as there is 3 generations of James Wallace and was a descended from the family of Elderslie. To find the exact line I am going to order a book on the history of Kintyre as a the names of the wives seem to lead to there. Ive been reseaching the Wallace family for about 10 years on and off now and I feel like a time traveler - its been fascinating. Regards Nola
Posted on behalf of Nola
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As I mentioned earlier, some Scottish and Austrlaian certificates are likely needed to sort out this family as so much mis-information has been posted.
Several online trees gives David Wallace & Mary Menson or Malcolm as the parents of James Tulloch Wallace who married Agnes Tweeddale- with James T. Wallace death 1927 (some trees give Scotland and others do not list a place).
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Hi Sarah / Nola
You mentioned sometime ago more info on Mcilmoyle as well as Tulloch Fleming and Wallace. I would be very interested in anything that may help fill in some gaps.
Regards
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Hi Martin,
Have you obtained any BDM certificates to help advance the quest and untangle the confusions ? Hi MS,
Do you have the Sth Australian birth certificate for your Gran, Gladys Sutherland, born 1911?
Do you have the Sth Australian birth certificate for your Gran's father, William Alexander Sutherland, born 1882?
Do you have the death certificate for the father of William Alexander Sutherland?
Cheers, JM
and
Suspect that there's been quite a bit of a mix-up here regarding James Wallace marrying Agnes Tweeddale who was also Agnes Morgan Hay :-\
There was an Agnes Morgan Hay (listed in Peerage site, etc.) who married (1865 India) General Edward Herbert Maxwell but 1926 probate record lists her as Agnes Moyan Hay or Maxwell died Edinburgh, Scotland (it's very common in Scotland for woman to continue using their maiden name after marriage).
Christening: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTTY-H79
http://www.thepeerage.com/p45983.htm
According to what's already been posted, James Wallace married (1860 Glasgow) Catherine Tulloch and their eldest son was also called James (born 1860 Glasgow).
It certainly looks like some Australian, and then Scottish, certificates do need to be checked to untangle this.
JM
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I have birth. Death, and marriage certs for William Alexander Sutherland.
Williams parents are deffinately James Sutherland and Martha Tulloch.
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Martha and Catherine were sisters and they had a brother Thomas. Parents were David Tulloch and Margaret Flemming. 🤗
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Rebecca Mcilmoyle 1820 Rothesay minor m in Canada James Wallace 21 born Fife. Discharged merchant marine ill health. Family moved to Bann valley Ireland were James was born 1836. Rebecca's mimes listed as Mullan there (Irish way of spelling). Then moved to Glasgow. Rebecca's parents were Thomas Mcilmoyle & Mary Ann Barbour. She died on voyage to Canada. Son James married Catherine Tulloch. Parents of James Tulloch Wallace partner in WW Hill son & Wallace m Agnes Tweeddale. She is of the Hay family but used Tweeddale name. My g grand parents. 🕵🏾