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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: jmg1893 on Wednesday 14 December 11 21:11 GMT (UK)
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One of my ancestors James Gordon was born on 8th Nov 1850 in Peterhead. His Father was James Gordon bn 1830 and his mother Margaret Queen bn 1831. In the 1861 census the family were living at 8 Ellis Street Peterhead when James was 10.
By the time of the 1871 census when James would have been 21 years old, the family had moved to Dundee. The census shows that James was no longer with the family nor was his younger sister Margaret bn 1852.
I presume that James either:
a. Stayed in Aberdeenshire when the family moved down to Dundee, or
b. May have moved to Dundee but had now moved out of the family home.
A search of the 1871 census in Aberdeenshire reveals 11 possibles none in Peterhead.
A search for the 1871 census in Dundee reveals No possibles.
I have then looked at marriages in Aberdeenshire between 1867 and 1871. This has thrown up 6 possibles again none in Peterhead.
Using the same search criteria in Dundee revealed one possible which was a marriage to Ann Crichton, but that turned out not to be my ancestor.
Other than throwing loads of credits at it on ScotlandsPeople is there anything I can do to narrow the focus and increase my chances of finding out where he went.
Another possibility is of course none of the above and that he went somewhere else.
Your thoughts would be welcome.
Jim
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I checked the 1881 census CD-ROMs. They list no James Gordons anywhere in Britain born in Peterhead within 5 years of 1850.
There is a death of a 19-year-old James Gordon in 1868 on the SP index, though it wasn't in either Angus or Aberdeenshire, and his age is at least a year out. Have you checked this to see if this was your one who died?
If not, then it looks as if he might have emigrated.
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"One of my ancestors James Gordon was born on 8th Nov 1850 in Peterhead. His Father was James Gordon bn 1830 and his mother Margaret Queen bn 1831"
"Scotlands people" has a different date for James, baptised 14th January 1851, at Peterhead to the above parents.
Added :- His birth in IGI is noted as above, "8th Nov 1850 in Peterhead", and Christened as SP record.
Added II, from Ancestry (not sourced) :- Have you looked at the marriage of James Gordon to Jemima Keith Findlay, 28/11/1873 at Broughty Ferry. That James Gordon has an Aberdeenshire birth, and a death date of 1st Feb 1927, aged 77 at Dundee.
Regards
Malky
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Have you looked at the marriage of James Gordon to Jemima Keith Findlay, 28/11/1873 at Broughty Ferry.
The 1881 census gives his birthplace as Aberdeen, not Peterhead.
There's nothing inconsistent about the difference between the IGI and SP. If in doubt, SP is a primary source, IGI is merely an index.
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I've viewed the marriage certificate in SP, unfortunately I don't think that it's my ancestor. It has his father as James but mother as Ann Gordon nee Ward. :(
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I checked the 1881 census CD-ROMs. They list no James Gordons anywhere in Britain born in Peterhead within 5 years of 1850.
There is a death of a 19-year-old James Gordon in 1868 on the SP index, though it wasn't in either Angus or Aberdeenshire, and his age is at least a year out. Have you checked this to see if this was your one who died?
Don't think that's him. Father down as Donald.
If not, then it looks as if he might have emigrated.
How would I be able to check to see whether he did indeed emigrate. His brother William, whom I'm directly descended from had two sister in law's who moved out to South Africa.
Thanks for looking anyway. Appreciate you taking the time.
Jim
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How would I be able to check to see whether he did indeed emigrate.
Easy enough if he went to Canada or the USA, because there are surviving censuses and in some places death certificates which include the deceased person's parents. Not so easy if he went to Australia or New Zealand, because there are no available censuses and certificates are expensive, and I gather it's even more difficult if it's Africa, though I have no direct experience of trying to find people there.
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Have had a search request re the son Peter Ward Gordon born Monifieth / Broughty Ferry 31st July 1897 in Dundas St to James Gordon fisherman and Jemima Findlay.
Peter died in WW1 on 18 / 8 /1916 and was in the 2nd Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. you can find him on the CWGC website on the Thiepval memorial. His sister is recorded as Mrs Mary Ferguson, presumably next of kin.
The person searching believes he was a professional golfer and was looking for confirmation.
Perhaps we could share info?
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Have had a search request re the son Peter Ward Gordon born Monifieth / Broughty Ferry 31st July 1897 in Dundas St to James Gordon fisherman and Jemima Findlay.
Peter died in WW1 on 18 / 8 /1916 and was in the 2nd Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. you can find him on the CWGC website on the Thiepval memorial. His sister is recorded as Mrs Mary Ferguson, presumably next of kin.
The person searching believes he was a professional golfer and was looking for confirmation.
Perhaps we could share info?
I don't think that's the same James Gordon as my family were farm labourers not fishermen
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I think I may have been the person who requested the information about Peter Ward Gordon. The Professional Golfers' Association are researching all golf professionals and their assistants who were killed in WW1, with the intention of having a memorial at their Headquarters. They have been sent info which seems to indicate that Peter Ward Gordon may have been a golf pro or, more likely an assistant. I know he served in 2nd Bn., Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (service number S/10217) and died on 18 August 1916; his effects were sent to his sister Mrs Ferguson. So far, I have been unable to find his occupation immediately prior to WW1. I would be really grateful if anyone could give me any help - obviously the PGA are anxious not to omit anyone from the memorial!
Thanks in anticipation.
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I can confirm that Peter Ward Gordon was an Assistant Golf Professional prior to enlisting in the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. Born in Broughty Ferry, Dundee on the 13th August 1897 by the time of the 1911 census he was showed as living with his sister Isabell and brother-in-law Melville Brown at 102, Shore Street, St Andrews. In 1911 Melville Brown took up the post of Golf Professional at Malone Golf Club, Belfast and took on Peter Ward Gordon as his assistant.At the tender age of just 19 and 5 days after his birthday he fell in action in the battle of the Somme. Peter Ward Gordon is commemorated at Thiepval Memorial to the Missing.
Whizzjoy
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Thank you Whizzjoy. Do you have any documents you could share with me please, so that I can send some evidence to the PGA? Everything you have found tallies with what we thought but we haven't been able to find any proof. I would be very grateful for any details you could share. I'm afraid I don't have access to the 1911 census. Thanks in anticipation.
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I'm afraid I don't have access to the 1911 census.
You have exactly the same access as everyone else. The original 1911 census is available only on the Scotland's People web site.
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GORDON PETER WARD
1911
13
453/ 8/ 16
St Andrews and St Leonards
Fife
Annie
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I'm afraid I don't have access to the 1911 census.
You have exactly the same access as everyone else. The original 1911 census is available only on the Scotland's People web site.
Thank you Forfarian. I realise that I could take out a a subscription to Scotland's People. I had hoped that that would not be necessary to trace just one person who is not in any way related to me; I was merely trying to help ensure that he wasn't missed on the PGA memorial. That's why I thought maybe others might be prepared to help. However, if needs be, I would rather pay for the subscription myself than allow a soldier to be forgotten. Thank you again.
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Thank you Forfarian. I realise that I could take out a a subscription to Scotland's People. I had hoped that that would not be necessary to trace just one person who is not in any way related to me; I was merely trying to help ensure that he wasn't missed on the PGA memorial. That's why I thought maybe others might be prepared to help. However, if needs be, I would rather pay for the subscription myself than allow a soldier to be forgotten. Thank you again.
It's not a subscription site, unfortunately; it's pay-per-view. The only way to get that information without shelling out £1.50 worth of credits would be if someone is going to the SP centre and would be willing to transcribe it. I would happily do so, but I have no idea when I will next be able to get to the SPC.
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In reply to the post of Bagibird yesterday....... no I do not have any documents to prove Peter Ward Gordon was an assistant golf professional, as yet. I have a colleague in Ireland who is undertaking further research as I write this message.
Most of the evidence gathered so far is circumstantial. I know from the 1911 census as I mentioned that he was living with his sister and brother-in-law in St Andrews. When Melville Brown secured the post of Golf Professional at Malone, Belfast may I suggest it is fair to assume Peter Ward Gordon went with them. Jacksons Register of The British Professional Golfers 1887-1930 has an entry for Melville Brown stating that he was at Malone Golf Club 1911-1922. Should more substantial evidence emerge I'll be sure to post it.
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In reply to the post of Bagibird yesterday....... no I do not have any documents to prove Peter Ward Gordon was an assistant golf professional, as yet. I have a colleague in Ireland who is undertaking further research as I write this message.
Most of the evidence gathered so far is circumstantial. I know from the 1911 census as I mentioned that he was living with his sister and brother-in-law in St Andrews. When Melville Brown secured the post of Golf Professional at Malone, Belfast may I suggest it is fair to assume Peter Ward Gordon went with them. Jacksons Register of The British Professional Golfers 1887-1930 has an entry for Melville Brown stating that he was at Malone Golf Club 1911-1922. Should more substantial evidence emerge I'll be sure to post it.
Thank you Whizzjoy. I'll keep watching and hoping! We had seen the entry in Alan Jackson's register for Melville Brown - not sure how much proof the PGA are seeking, but I'll certainly pass on your message. I don't think the 1911 census will take me any further, although I'm more than happy to pay to access Scottish People - (didn't realise it was pay per view; I thought it was subscription).
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Hello Bagibird. I agree the 1911 census entry for Peter Ward Gordon will take you no further than what's already been posted. I'm pretty comfortable that Ward Gordon was with Melville Brown probably as a club maker in which case he would under the Bye-Laws and Constitution of the Professional Golfers' Association at that time have been eligible for membership. If his enlistment papers into the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were available for viewing then they would either way confirm his profession. Whizzjoy
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Hello Bagibird. I agree the 1911 census entry for Peter Ward Gordon will take you no further than what's already been posted. I'm pretty comfortable that Ward Gordon was with Melville Brown probably as a club maker in which case he would under the Bye-Laws and Constitution of the Professional Golfers' Association at that time have been eligible for membership. If his enlistment papers into the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders were available for viewing then they would either way confirm his profession. Whizzjoy
I haven't been able to find his enlistment papers yet, but will keep trying. They would certainly be the "silver bullet"!
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Hello Bagibird. I agree the 1911 census entry for Peter Ward Gordon will take you no further than what's already been posted. I'm pretty comfortable that Ward Gordon was with Melville Brown probably as a club maker
If he was born in 1897, he would have been just 13 in 1911, which is rather young to be working as a club maker?
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Is the reason for this post re "Peter Ward Gordon" to verify the comments made here:-
http://www.antiquegolfscotland.com/antiquegolf/history.php3?itemid=87
and
http://www.antiquegolfscotland.com/antiquegolf/maker.php3?makerid=270
Regards
Malky
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Is the reason for this post re "Peter Ward Gordon" to verify the comments made here:-
http://www.antiquegolfscotland.com/antiquegolf/history.php3?itemid=87
and
http://www.antiquegolfscotland.com/antiquegolf/maker.php3?makerid=270
Regards
Malky
Malky, the owner of that website is one of the people who is working on the PGA project. It may be that we find a reference in a newspaper article, but sadly, they're not always reliable! My husband and I also have a golf history website, concentrating on defunct clubs, but we get a lot of enquiries from genealogists too
www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk