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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: shandobe on Tuesday 20 December 11 06:05 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for information of my gg-grandfather JAMES BARKER born in about 1830 in Baslow. I have a birth cert of my g-grandfather with his parents as James and Maria Woolhouse in Feb 1855. Then stepping back through census returns I have
1871 in Ecclesall Bierrlow, James birth is listed as Baslow.
1861 in Sheffield, the return is for James C Barker born in Baslow. The initial C appears only in this census
1851 cannot find a James But there is Caleb Barker born in Baslow about 1831. Is Caleb the name the the initial in 1861 refers to?
1841 in Bakewell, Caleb Barker is living with his mother Sarah.
The twist to this is that I haven't found a marriage cert for James and Maria, but there is one for Caleb and Maria in Sheffield.
So can anyone tell me if the was a birth in about 1830 for a Caleb, a James, or a Caleb James Barker. Or are there two Barkers born in Baslow at that time. How do I find out from the parish records?
Don
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Hullo and welcome to rootschat :)
Have you tried searching for the parish records of familysearch online? It's free to search.I'd start there
[ Both Baslow and Bakewell are in a beautifu lpart of England ;D ]
charlotte
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https://www.familysearch.org/
this is the url for the family search site.
cgarlotte
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I am searching for information of my gg-grandfather JAMES BARKER born in about 1830 in Baslow.
I have a birth cert of my g-grandfather with his parents
James and Maria Woolhouse in Feb 1855.
1851 cannot find a James But there is Caleb Barker born in Baslow about 1831. Is Caleb the name the the initial in 1861 refers to?
1841 in Bakewell, Caleb Barker is living with his mother Sarah.
The twist to this is that I haven't found a marriage cert for James and Maria, but there is one for Caleb and Maria in Sheffield.
I can’t see any Caleb Barker on later censuses
1841 HO107; Piece 183; Book: 7; Civil Parish: Bakewell ED: 5a; Folio: 3; Page: 4; Line: 10
Sarah Barker 45, Albert 25 Weaver, William 20 Weaver , Edward 25 Gardener, Septimus 14, CALEB 11, Frederic 8
family search
Caleb Barker ch 7/3/1830 Baslow Derby
Parents George Barker & Sarah
There are also these christenings Baslow
parents named as George & Sarah
Albert 14/5/1809
Edward 24/4/1814
George 5/7/1820
Charles 22/6/1823
William 13/11/1826
Peter 7/7/1826
Septimus 28/5/1826
1851 HO107; Piece: 2340; Folio: 280; Page: 62 - sheffield
Caleb Barker Baslow 20 apprentice to Thomas Harrison knife forger & Grocer
The marriage you mention looks likely
Jun qtr. 1854 Sheffield
Names on same page
Maria Woolhouse
Caleb Barker
1861 RG9; Piece: 3493; Folio: 80; Page: 63
Jas C Barker born Baslow Derby occ Blade Striker
Son Fredk born 1855 sheffield
1871 RG10; Piece: 4672; Folio: 39; Page: 32
James Barker born Baslow occ. Table (Knife) Blade Forger
1881
James Barker born Barlow occ Table Knife Striker
Everything seems to tie together birth place etc to Caleb being James/Jas C Barker
- to confirm think you would need to purchase marriage certificate of Maria Woolhouse this would give you Caleb's occupation & his father's name
Welcome to Rootchat :)
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Brother SEPTIMUS may have died in Australia;
Death Reg;
Septimus BARKER, 1915, Victoria, Age 89, Birth c 1826
Father GEO Barker
Mother Sarah DOWKES
1851 Census Sarah Barker is born c 1789, Sheffield, Yorkshire.
Albert/William/Frederic are still at home with her.
Trish :)
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Sorry about delay in reply, lets blame Christmas.
I have received the marriage certificate of Caleb and Maria, dated 21 May 1854; his father is George [a gardener] and his occupation is Table blade forger, which marries in with the various census returns for "James C" and "James".
Can you tell me how best to access to parish register for Baslow so I can verify if the birth in 1830 had two christen names? (This enquiry is being posted from Australia)
Caleb dies in Melbourne Australia in 1891 and Maria dies 30th June 1923 in Victoria Australia
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marriage certificate of Caleb and Maria, dated 21 May 1854; his occupation is Table blade forger father George [a gardener]
Can you tell me how best to access to parish register for Baslow so I can verify if the birth in 1830 had two christen names?
(enquiry is being posted from Australia)
Caleb dies in Melbourne Australia in 1891 and Maria dies 30th June 1923 in Victoria Australia
Firstly check the Rootschat Derbyshire board under the heading of Derbyshire Resources & Offers
Derbyderek was offering free lookups for a very large number of Derbyshire Parish Records, you could send him a message to see if he's still doing lookups
I can't see anything on IGI batch numbers Barlow for a baptism of James or Caleb Barker ???
Here’s a link for some extracts of Barlow Parish Records – but there’s only 7 baptism for surname Barker - no James/Caleb Barker
if you click on ‘about this information’ takes you to another page there is an e-mail address towards the bottom of the page – perhaps they could help with your query
http://web.archive.org/web/20100808184546/http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/Baslow/Records.html
Under ‘church records’ there is a CD containing transcriptions The Parish of St. Anne’s Church but this needs to be purchased
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DBY/Baslow/index.html
Not sure if this will help here’s a list of Baslow records on microfilm
http://www.londonfhc.org/content/catalogue?p=England,England,Derbyshire,Baslow&f=1
Hopefully someone on here may have records for the Parish Baslow on CD :)
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Thankyou to those who provided helpful suggestions. I'm still not sure how Caleb was sometimes 'james' or 'jas c' in the census returns.
I did trace Caleb to Australia, migrating into Mortens Bay [Brisbane] in 1883 and sometime later he and family are in Melbourne living near his brother Septimus at Hampton. Caleb died in Feb 1891 and his wife Maria died in June 1923
I wont persue this further
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James Caleb Barker is my great uncle, brother of my grandmother Mary Stones nee Barker born 1864 died 1919. My mother was Gladys Mary Sanderson nee Stones, born 1/6/1905 died 18/7/1979. Just started this search but I have had a lot of help from someone at my local library.
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I would like to talk more with you on this person.
The James I am researching was born about 1830 in Baslow, Derbyshire. If your G-mother was born in 1864, there seems to be a generation between these two. And my problem is I'm unsure if my James was named James Caleb.
Don
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Hi Don.,
Sorry, my mistake, I am quite new to this. Caleb was my maternal grandmother, Mary Stones' (nee Barker) father. I've had help from a librarian at my local library who's also a genealogist. I've got info. back to George and Sarah Barker's children, Caleb (James) was next to the youngest born 7.3.1830 in Baslow . The 1841 census when Caleb was 11 they were living in Bubnell which is part of Baslow.
We do have 2 very old photo's. of relatives in Australia, but I have to find out which member of my family has them. Caleb and Septimus were known as Barker Brothers, Herbalists 263 Victoria Street Melbourne. Septimus died whilst visiting his son 25 April 1915 @ 9 Carson Street Kew Melbourne. I still have to collate all the info. I have. My friend did say it was quite difficult researching Caleb because of being known as James as well. He emigrated from Glasgow to Brisbane in 1883 and moved to Melbourne to be with Septimus later ( don't know when though). Hope you have a little bit more info. from this. Veronica Element nee Sanderson.
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Postscript to my original message re. Caleb. The 1841 census region Bakewell, both Baslow and Bubnell would come under this region. I only live 6 miles from Baslow.
Veronica.
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Hello Don..I think you should know that. according to the Baslow parish records..there is NO JAMES BARKER baptised 1830.....the only person of that name was baptised 1819..........
CALEB BARKER was baptised at Baslow 07.03.1830 son of George and Sarah...no indication that he was ever called james............could be a middle name i suppose.......
Derek.
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Hi Veronica
This man has been somewhat of a puzzle for a while concerning the christen names. For me, when I follow back from my g-grandfather Frederick Barker, his birth certificate lists his parents as James Barker and Maria Woolhouse. But I can only find a marriage for Caleb and Maria. So I am not sure if Caleb adopted the name James or if he was christened with it as a second name. You can read through my original postings about following the man on census forms.
I already have a long list of information about Septimus; from his migration through to his residences as recorded on census rolls. The Melbourne suburb for the Barker Brothers herbalist shop was Richmond.
Caleb died 18 Feb 1891 in Melbourne Gaol from alcoholic pneumonia, as it is listed on his death certificate. I have photos of his wife Maria, but don't know if any existed of Caleb. My grandmother had Maria's photo is her collection with a note on the back of it saying Maria was her grandmother. Maria stayed in Melbourne with her son Albert Edward. She passed away 30 Jun 1923.
Don
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Hi Don,
Quite shocked at Caleb's demise!. I had got quite attached to him. The reason for my search started with finding out that my mum. had 9 siblings. We were only aware of 3, she had no contact with these 3 after the war, but they seemed to be really close before and during the war. Mum. had to leave her house in Sheffield with my 2 sisters because of bomb damage, my dad was in North Africa in the army. My paternal grandparents lived in Chesterfield to where my mum. went. None of my family can understand why my mother never talked about her other brothers and sisters. What we all surmised is that maybe some of them went to Australia. I will leave Caleb alone now, and concentrate on what happened to the rest of the brothers and sisters. But your James Caleb Barker is definitely your g.g. grandfather. Are you in Australia?. Veronica.
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Hi Veronica
Yesterday I tried to attach the death certificate for Caleb to that posting, but it is too large, exceeding the 500kb limit for attachments. I think the site administrator will allow us to communicate through other email addresses, so if you like, contact me on *
Caleb and Sep had I think two other brothers in Australia, all living in the same general area. I can also send you the family group information that I have collected over the years.
Yes I am in Australia; I got excited when I finally found a contact in the UK because of the hope of discovering more about that branch of the family.
regards
Don
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HI Don.,
My husband Peter and I went to Baslow Church yesterday. After searching the graveyard I went into the church. The Womens Institute have listed all the graves with date of death, death age, and where the graves are. I did hope to find Calebs mother and father but they were not on the list. I did find quite a few Barkers though.
I will send you the names etc. to see if they match anything you have. Be quite exciting if there is. Regards Veronica.
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Good morning Veronica...re your visit to Baslow Church.....we are also local and visit most of the villages and Churches around Bakewell...My family originate from Ashford in the water from 1757.......I have seen the record to which you refer, and I have also got the Baslow PR's............I'm pretty sure that George and Sarah are buried there somewhere.....I think that book is for existing MI's.....and in those days most people could not afford Gravestones...........My whole family up to 1840 is buried at Ashford..but only John Gilchrist 1807-1808 has a gravestone.......which has beautiful italic script..and I'm sure it was put up later by his brother William, my GGGrandfather..a Stone Mason....
Any derbyshire research you're doing..just ask me!!
(Since i posted this..i have posted again..proving the burials of both George and Sarah at Baslow..see below)
Derek
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Hi Veronica
The record for George Baker's death is
1840, Bakewell, Derbyshire, Vol 19, page 324, age 57
and for Sarah
Jun quarter, 1875, Bakewell, Derbyshire, 86 years old Vol 7b page 428
How would you describe Bubnell as it was back in their time? Is it now a suburb of Bakewell?
Don
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Veronica and Don.....Back then the parish was Baslow with Bubnell...and The death is registered at the Civil Registration district of Bakewell.which cover virtually half the County..It does not mean he was buried at Bakewell.There is a burial for a George Barker (of Bubnell) at Baslow 21.01.1840 aged 58........which would have been registered at Bakewell...All burials had to have a Civil registration.......its the same George..and with Sarah same thing..buried 18.05.1875 (of Bubnell) aged 87..woud have been registered at Bakewell the following month............................so as i said earlier they are both buried at Baslow.
Derek.
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Hi Derbysderek,
Will the church be able to help me locate the grave. I did think there would be no headstone yesterday when we were looking. Thanks Veronica.
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Veronica....I'm afraid not..in my experience (at Ashford and other villages) there is no trace left. There are often a lot of defaced or broken, or simply worn gravestones scattered against walls....and its not much fun searching them...which means they have been moved from their original..long forgotten...grave, which has often been re-used. Sad I know, but like me, at least you know they ARE buried somewhere in that Churchyard..
I'm sure your WI ladies will tell you exactly the same thing..............
Strange though, because they are both relatively recent burials..which means they probably never had Headstones..again just like my family......but you must ask......
Derek.
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Hi Veronica and Derek
From an Australian experience, maybe we expect that they would have done what we now think is a normal thing to do, erect a headstone. It could have been simply that they did not have the money for headstones.
Veronica, your contact details came through on your last posting, so I will arrange to copy a few things through to you.
regards
Don
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Should you get back to the Barker's of Bakewell around the middle of the 18th century then the following may be of interest:
The Metropolitan Archives library:
Document 1 (Ms 29744A) – Loose leaf
William Barker, son of Thomas & Sarah Barker of Bakewell in Derbyshire, born 31th Jan 1739, was married in Smyrna to Thora Robin daughter of Giovanni Batista & Katerina Robin (French subjects) born in Smyrna August 1739, by the Lutheran minister Christophoro Guighilma Ludecke, according to the rites of the church of England, the 16th Oct 1763.
Children: Sarah / Thomas (x) / William / Gratia / John / Robert / George, 1764-1774
Some christened by Dutch minister B. Keun
Some christened by English minister B. Clendon
Flora the wife of William Barker died 16 Dec 1775
1776 remarried Dutch subject Elizabeth Mary Schnell who was born in Smyrna 1760, married by B.Keun.
Children: Arthur Francis (x) / Richard / Marianna / James (x) / Mary / Edward / Peter (x) / Francis (x) / Frederick / Louisa / Samuel / Henry Richards / Benjamin, 1777-1797
Sworn to the truth of above, signed before me 1806
Also signed by André Slaars (resident 50 years), Robert Wilkinson (resident 34 years).
Done due to the ‘Consularian house fire’ 1797.
What I find quite amazing is that when I got married in Izmir in Jan 1957 the Consul who married us was a Richard Wilkinson. Sounds like the British Consulate was a long time occupation for the Wilkinsons for nearly 200 years!!!
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Thankyou for that Malcom33.
I am still trying to determine the births and marriage of George and Sarah before stepping back earlier into the 18th century.
regards
Don
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I'm sorry..I sort of lost track of this thread..so I'm not sure what you've found out..........but I do have the Baslow Parish records..from which I offer you the following baptism:-
CALEB BARKER bapt. 07.03.1830 son of George and Sarah.........I have to say that \i an find no evidence that he was ever called James........particularly as he appears to have been married as Caleb..and a word of warning..the Baslow registers show George and Sarah producing children right through from 1804 to 1830.............I find that difficult to believe and suggest that any children "older" than Peter 07.07.1816..or George 07.07.1820..might be children of another George and Sarah..........
Derek.
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Hi Derek
From the Baslow records that you do have, can you shed any light on the dates of the marriage of George and Sarak Barker. We know from purchased certificates that George died in 1840 aged 57 as a weaver; so his birth is about 1783. Sarah died 1875 aged 86; so her birth was about 1789.
If George married at about 20 y.o. that means Sarah was about 14 y.o. Is this plausable or are one of the dates or ages on the certificates wrong.
A question if I may about George's death cert', the informant is William Barker, possibly his son. But this son;s position is given as "Inmate Bubnell", can you enlighten me on this description?
regards
Don
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Hello Don....I did check this out before I wrote to you..and there is no marriage for George Barker in Baslow to a Sarah............although if they were both born late 1780's there is no reason I suppose that they marrried before 1814, and were responsible for all births that I said previously were unlikely.......I then looked on IGI..and there is no George Barker marriage to a Sarah in the whole of Derbyshire that fits........according to IGI..which are not infallible.
However there is a marriage of George Barker to a Sarah Dowkes or Doakes in Sheffield that does fit.......I have yet to find that marriage..but it existes somewhere!!
I'll check out "Inmate Bubnell" for you..sounds like the Workhouse!
Derek.
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Hi,
I’ve just come across your message thread re (James)Caleb Barker. I have recently started researching my family from my late mother’s notes and he was her great grandfather. I don’t know if this is a really old thread now, but if not I’d love to hear from you.
Best wishes,
Susie
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Hi Susie..nope I'm here..a fixture!! Fire away..how can i elp you?? Derek
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I've just realised, for all you folks looking for the marriage of George and Sarah ...that they didn't marry n Derbyshire at all!! They actually married in Sheffield. ie the bride's own Parish..in 1806 and George took her back to his gaff in Bubnell (baslow) to have his wicked way with her..probably on horsebac.Hey Tonto!!..so the 1807 and 1816 Baptisms of hannah and Peter respectively are ok..thus a productivity span of 24 years...no wonder George died n 1840..and how Sarah managed to last till 1875...wow!!
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Hi Don & Derek,
As a novice ancestry researcher, I've found your thread really interesting, both in confirming some details and shedding light on more complex areas. I've been trying to find info on Caleb's parents so would be grateful for any more details you might be able to give me. Thanks for all the info re Caleb Barker and his parents. He was the father of my great grandmother, Annie Maria Barker (always pronounced Mar eye uh by my mother). I struggled to "find" her in the records, but eventually succeeded as fortunately my mother had noted her exact dob & place of birth. She is registered on her birth certificate as Maria, presumably as it was the same name as her mother, she was distinguished in the family by the addition of Annie! On her birth certificate her mother is Maria, formerly Woolhouse, her father Caleb, of Cemetery Road, Ecclesall, a table blade forger. So she was the sister of Mary (Veronica's g grandmother, and Frederick (1855-1925) I think your great grandfather, Don? My mother would often tell stories about her family, some of which I actually listened to and remembered! Interestingly, she never mentioned how and where exactly her great grandfather Caleb died! A shocking and terribly sad end. I have found the listings of his, his wife and son's arrival in Brisbane, as bounty immigrants on the Kincardineshire in 1883 after 3 months at sea. He did send his son back to Sheffield to try to persuade Annie Maria to join them when her husband died but, at the last minute she was a unable to leave "all her graves behind". I think that the prospect of the 3 months journey by sea must have been terrifying, given the fate of her uncle's family on board the Wallace. I've just started looking at the other Barker relatives who emigrated to Australia in 1800s, using Ancestry.co.uk.
My mother said that the family set up a business making circular saws in Australia, presumably using their blade forging skills - do you have any info about that? Also someone on the thread said they had some old photos - was that you?
Looking forward to hearing from you soon,
Susie
PS you've probably seen this, but I've just found this page online about the Barkers of Bubnell
http://places.wishful-thinking.org.uk/DBY/Baslow/BarkersandWeavers.html