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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: JenClark on Sunday 25 December 11 11:51 GMT (UK)
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Hello All,
I have just come across a Swedish connection in my family, and really don't know the first place to start :-\
I have the following couple that were married on 29 Oct 1816 in London.
Mary Lancefield & John William Busch
In a newspaper article about the marriage John William Busch is described as 'from Gottenburg'.
They appear to have had the following children:
John William Busch 1817 London (I have his baptism)
Fanny Carolina Busch abt 1820 Gothenburg, Sweden
Ellen Augusta Busch abt 1824 Gothenburg, Sweden
Alida Elisabet Busch abt 1826 Gothenburg, Sweden
Ada Amelia Busch abt 1829 Gothenburg, Sweden
James Laurence Busch abt 1831 Gothenburg, Sweden
Emilie Ingeborg Busch abt 1833 Gothenburg, Sweden
Does anyone know how I can find the baptism records for these children (or there may indeed be more) or is able to do a look up?
I found a tree posted on a website which indicates that Fanny Carolina Busch married Johan Fredrik Lundström but I have no date or place for this, and that Alida Elisabet Busch married Adolf Leopold Ölisch (also no date or place), and lastly that James Laurence Busch married Elizabeth Hearsey (this happened in 1855 in London and I already have a record of it and their 6 children).
Any info or a point in the right direction would be great :)
Jenny
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Hi!
I have Arkivdigital, but Gothenburg/Gøteborg is an awful lot of parishes!
Have you got any more info? Tried Familysearch?
Jan
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"I have the following couple that were married on 29 Oct 1816 in London.
Mary Lancefield & John William Busch
In a newspaper article about the marriage John William Busch is described as 'from Gottenburg'.
They appear to have had the following children:
John William Busch 1817 London (I have his baptism)
Fanny Carolina Busch abt 1820 Gothenburg, Sweden (4th December)
Ellen Augusta Busch abt 1824 Gothenburg, Sweden
Alida Elisabet Busch abt 1826 Gothenburg, Sweden (7th September)
Ada Amelia Busch abt 1829 Gothenburg, Sweden
James Laurence Busch abt 1831 Gothenburg, Sweden (Repeated in the English census records)
Emilie Ingeborg Busch abt 1833 Gothenburg, Sweden (24th March)
Does anyone know how I can find the baptism records for these children (or there may indeed be more) or is able to do a look up?
I found a tree posted on a website which indicates that Fanny Carolina Busch married Johan Fredrik Lundström but I have no date or place for this, and that Alida Elisabet Busch married Adolf Leopold Ölisch (also no date or place), and lastly that James Laurence Busch married Elizabeth Hearsey (this happened in 1855 in London and I already have a record of it and their 6 children). Where are you getting the 6 children from??
Any info or a point in the right direction would be great :)"
Jenny, I have had a look at Ancestry world wide including the Swedish records, and the above dates in red is all I found. Also, I have only seen 5 children in the census records for James and Elizabeth. Are you sure that you have the correct names for the undated individuals?
Regards
Malky
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Hello Jan & Malky,
Thanks for the hints, I see that the Swedish records on Ancestry (births from the death records) have the following:
Name: Fanny Carolina Lundström [Fanny Carolina Busch]
Birth Date: 4 dec 1820
Birth Place: Göteborgs Domkyrkoförs, Göteborg Och Bohus (Västra Götaland), Sverige (Sweden)
Name: Alida Elisabet Ölisch [Alida Elisabet Buseh]
Birth Date: 7 sep 1826
Birth Place: Göteborg (Gothenburg), Göteborg Och Bohus (Västra Götaland), Sverige (Sweden)
Name: Emelia Ingeborg Busch
Birth Date: 24 mar 1833
No birthplace given
Does this help with parishes Jan? I have no idea of the name of the names of the parishes in Gothenburg unfortunately. I have information that Ada Amelia Busch was buried in Örgryte Churchyard , Gothenburg, if that helps. And apparently: "According to “The Swedish population 1890”, Fanny Carolina Busch, was born 1820 in Göteborg, the Cathedral parish, lives together with her husband Johan Fredrik Lundström, former tradesman, born 1817, in Kungälv."
I also have reason to belive that there may be a 8th child to John William Busch and Mary Lancefield - possibly a Bertha Wilhelmine Busch born around 1835. I am not sure where though.
Malky, I have the 6 children of James Laurence Busch from the census as below:
1861 census - 3 Victoria Terrace, Rotherhithe, Southwark, Surrey
James L Busch Head M 30yrs Ship Broker b. Sweden
Elizabeth Busch Wife M 29yrs Tobacconist & newsvendor b. Maidstone, Kent
Rose A Busch Dau 4yrs b. Greenwich, Kent
George L Busch Son 3yrs b. Greenwich, Kent
Carl V Busch Son 1yr b. Rotherhithe, Surrey
Ann Hearsey Mother-in-law 65yrs Widow b. Woolwich, Kent
1871 census - Newcomer Terrace, East Coatham, Kirkleatham, Yorkshire
James L Busch Head M 40yrs Clerk in Iron, Coal & Coke Office b. Sweden
Elizabeth Busch Wife M 45yrs Clerk's wife b. Maidstone, Kent
George L Busch Son 13yrs Scholar b. Greenwich, Kent
Carl V Busch Son 11yrs Scholar b. Rotherhithe, Surrey
Clara I Busch Dau 9yrs Scholar b. Rotherhithe, Surrey
Laura A Busch Dau 7yrs Scholar b. Middlesbro, Yorkshire
Arthur L Busch Son 5yrs Scholar b. Middlesbro, Yorkshire
Ann Hearsey Mother-in-law W 77yrs Formerly grocer's wife b. Woolwich, Kent
+ 1 servant
1881 census - 96 Corporation Road, Middlesbrough, Yorkshire
James L Busch Head M 50yrs Ship Broker b. Sweden (British Subject)
Elizabeth Busch Wife M 55yrs b. Maidstone, Kent
George L Busch Son U 23yrs Clerk b. Greenwich, Kent
Laura Amelia Busch Dau U 17yrs Music Teacher b. Middlesbro, Yorkshire
Arthur L Busch Son U 15yrs Scholar b. Middlesbro, Yorkshire
1891 census - 108 Grange Road West, Middlesbrough, Yorkshire
Laurence Busch Head M 60yrs Ship broker b. Sweden (British Subject)
Elizabeth Busch Wife M 66yrs b. Maidstone, Kent
George Busch Son U 33yrs Ship broker's Assistant b. Greenwich, Kent
1901 census - 3 Queen's Terrace, Middlesbrough, Yorkshire
James L Busch Head M 70yrs Ship broker agent b. Sweden (British Subject)
Elizabeth Busch Wife M 76yrs b. Maidstone, Kent
Fanny Eneroth Niece S 35yrs b. Sweden (British Subject)
Several of James Laurence Busch's children returned to Sweden, indeed Rose, Clara and Laura are buried there, Arthur ended up in America, I am not sure about George & Carl. Though some of George's children appear to have ended up in New Zealand. Quite the mobile family ;)
Thanks so much for your help!
Jenny
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My apologies, I missed the overlap of the '61 and the '71 for the birth of "Rose". It was late and I'm feeling old. That's my excuse.
Regards
Malky
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No worries Malky, it happens to us all ;)
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You're on the right track, because I've found Fanny Carolina's baptism here:
Lovely handwriting & some English names there,
-J
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Thank you Jan!!! That is brilliant ;D
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Jenny, as per your "Arthur ended up in America, I am not sure about George & Carl."
There is the death of a George L Busch, September 1925 in Stockton.
Carl is in both the 1861 and 1871 census. Then gone.
A Carl Busch sailed from Liverpool, arrived New York, on the ship, City of Chester, 12 February 1887, his birth circa 1860
Regards
Malky
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Thanks Malky, I'll check out those leads ;)
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Jan,
I have just heard from a Swedish researcher that all John Wilhelm Busch & Mary Lancefield's children were born in Gothenburg, Cathedral Parish except James Laurence Busch (1831) who was born in Östergötland, though we are not sure which parish.
An extra birth date, in addition to Fanny Carolina, Alida Elisabet, and Emilie Ingeborg below is Ada Amelia Busch 18 Oct 1829.
There is also an eighth child:
Bertha Wilhelmina Busch - born 22 July 1835
Wow, it really is starting to come together :)
Jenny
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Jan, please do not worry about looking up the other Busch children's baptisms.....I have just figured out how to find them in the Sweden, Church Records, 1500-1937 on Ancestry!!!
They are all in Göteborg och Bohus, Göteborgs Gustavi (Domkyrkoförsamlingen i Göteborg), Födde (Births)
Thanks so much for all your help :)
Jenny
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Happy New Year everybody!
Found Alida Elisabeth's birth Sep 7, 1826 on picture 180 in births Domkyrkoförsamlingen Göteborg (1816-1827)...
- J -
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Hi Jan,
Happy New Year to you too ;)
I have spent a bit of time trolling though the records on Ancestry....now that I have figured out the parish....and have come across 14 births to this couple!! Including twins :)
So have made heaps of progress from the initial 7!!
I LOVE the way Swedish records are kept, with all the detail and the god parents etc....makes it much easier to find families, especially compared with English records of the same time frame.
Thanks again for helping point me in the right direction
Jenny
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Jenny
I am also looking for a swedish ancestor from the 1800's. Do u have a web address for the records you have been looking at? They may be of help to me.
Thank you
Amie
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Hi Amie,
I have been primarily using the Swedish records on Ancestry (world delux membership), the early records are not indexed so you have to scroll through each parish.....and there are a lot!! Ancestry has Swedish Church Records 1500-1937 (not indexed), Indexed Swedish birth records 1880-1920, and Swedish Births from Swedish death index 1901-2006 & 1947-2006.
Otherwise a Swedish friend told me about these free websites - they are not complete but you may luck out:
One baptism/marriage/burial record is http://www.slaktdata.org, but it is far from complete. Try “Sökning” (Search), then fill out “Efternamn” (Surname)
also www.gravar.se – fill out “Efternamn” (surname)
Good luck :)
Jenny
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Thank you Jenny.
Will try my luck with the free ones first although I doubt I will get far. The family name is Larsson which I imagine to be quite common!
Amie
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yes Larsson is quite common, but if you have a name and vague dates I can try and look it up for you :)
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That would be a great help but I'm afraid the information I have is very vague as it is off a UK census.
His name was Lars Larsson and he was born in 1835. Unfortunatly the census only gives his birth place as Sweden
Amie
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Do you have the census info and I can see what pops up on Ancestry?
e.g wife, children, job, census place etc
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There are 3 records for a Lars Larsson, born Brantavick/Branterick born c 1835, census 1871 + 1881 + 1911, wife, Susan, living in at 31 South Wm Street, Cardiff, St Mary, Glamorgan, Wales, 6 children plus others.
Regards
Malky
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Is this your family Aime?
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Yes this is them. He married Susan Haskell from Usk in 1863 in Cardiff.
They also lived in Dudley St and Stuart st I believe
Amie
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do you have the 1871, 1881 and 1911 census that Malky was referring to? If not I can transcribe them for you...let me know and I'll have a look about on Ancestry ;)
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I only have the transcript for the 1881 census.
Amie
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I'll do the others for you then, just give me a minute
Brantevick appears to be in Östra Nöbbelöf, Kristianstads so I will try and look in the parish records too :)
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Sounds very confusing! I've only just started looking at my family tree so I'm still a bit of a novice!
Amie
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1871 UK census - 5 Dudley Place, St Mary, Cardiff, Wales
Lars Larsson Head M 35yrs Mariner with pilot b. Brantevick, Sweden
Susan Larsson Wife M 29yrs b. Monmouthshire, Wales
Nelly Matilde Larsson Dau 7yrs Scholar b. Cardiff, Glamorgan
Elgeuna Larsson Dau 3yrs b. Cardiff, Glamorgan
Anne Elizabeth Larsson Dau 4mths b. Cardiff, Glamorgan
1911 UK census - 25 Stuart Street, Cardiff, Wales
Lars Larsson Head M 76yrs Retired Waterman b. Brantevick, Sweden (Swedish)
Susan Larsson Wife M 70yrs (48yrs married, 8 children, 5 living, 3 deceased) b. Monmouthshire
Annie Larsson Dau 40yrs Single Charwoman b. Cardiff, Glamorgan
William Larsson Son 36yrs Single Waterman b. Cardiff, Glamorgan
Leslie England Grandson 13yrs At School b. Cardiff, Glamorgan
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Sounds very confusing! I've only just started looking at my family tree so I'm still a bit of a novice!
Amie
ha ha, Sweden is confusing and I have been doing this for years ;)
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Well I checked the parish registers for Östra Nöbbelöf, Kristianstads 1834-1836, and one did come up:
There was a baptism for twins Marten & Lars Larsson on 19th or 20th October 1834 to Nils Larsson and Elsa (or Ella) Martensdotter
I can send you the baptism if you send me a PM with your e-mail address, it is in Swedish and I do not read Swedish so afraid I don't know what the other bits say (there are usually several godparents mentioned etc)
Jenny
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I found him in 1891 and 1901 as well (Larson & Larssen transcribed)
I can send them to you as well, will save me transcribing :)
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https://www.familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/%C3%96stra_N%C3%B6bbel%C3%B6v_parish,_Sweden
Shows how Brantevik fits into the Östra Nöbbelöv parish, in Kristianstads, Skåne
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Thank you Jenny
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No worries, night mate ;)
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Good Job!
The parish is the breakthrough!
J
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Aime,
Do you have the marriage record for Lars Larsson and Susannah Haskell? It would likely have his father on it and it may help confirm if the baptism I found is correct. It shows on Free BMD as June Q, 1863, Cardiff Vol 11a, p 394.
Jenny
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I don't I'm afraid. I know that is the correct marriage and have those details for it but don't have the actual certificate
Amie
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Well I checked the parish registers for Östra Nöbbelöf, Kristianstads 1834-1836, and one did come up:
There was a baptism for twins Marten & Lars Larsson on 19th or 20th October 1834 to Nils Larsson and Elsa (or Ella) Martensdotter
I can send you the baptism if you send me a PM with your e-mail address, it is in Swedish and I do not read Swedish so afraid I don't know what the other bits say (there are usually several godparents mentioned etc)
Jenny
Hi Jenny!
You are 95% there, I will post the original baptism record in the other topic shortly!
Jan
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In that case Aime, I would recommend you order the marriage certificate from the GRO as it will hopefully save you chasing the wrong family. Hopefully it confirms Nils Larsson as his father.
Thanks Jan, I am sure that Aime will appreciate the other details ;)
Jenny
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Well I checked the parish registers for Östra Nöbbelöf, Kristianstads 1834-1836, and one did come up:
There was a baptism for twins Marten & Lars Larsson on 19th or 20th October 1834 to Nils Larsson and Elsa (or Ella) Martensdotter
I can send you the baptism if you send me a PM with your e-mail address, it is in Swedish and I do not read Swedish so afraid I don't know what the other bits say (there are usually several godparents mentioned etc)
Jenny
Hi
I have lots of ancestors from Östra Nöbbelöv and Brantevik.
Two remarks:
1. Brantevik is divided by two parishes, Östra Nöbbelöv AND Simris.
2. In those days they used patronymicon = the child was given the last name after the father's first name.
That means that Lars Larsson's father should have been called Lars.
In this actual case, the one you are looking for was born in Brantevik, Ö.Nöbbelöv 11th November 1834.
Parents: Fisherman Lars Jönsson, born 1802-08-20 in Löderup and Nilla Hansdotter (=daughter of Hans) born 1801-07-20 in Brantevik, Ö.Nöbbelöv.
Greetings / Patrik
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And the earlier generation:
Grandparents of Lars Larsson:
Farmer Jöns Svensson, born 1770-10-06 in Löderup
Wife Bengta Andersdotter, born 1785-03-30 in Ullstorp
Fisherman Hans Nilsson, born 1767-06-09 in Viarp, Simris
Wife Boel Ingvarsdotter, born 1766-08-29 in Brantevik, Ö.Nöbbelöv
*Hans Nilsson drowned 1814-09-03 in a terrible tragedy at sea, where 11 people from Brantevik died on open sea just near the german island Rügen. Hans and three others' bodies were found and buried in the church in Altenkirchen of Rügen.
(I myself have got ancestral connections to both Jöns Svensson and Boel Ingvarsdotter, back on the 17th century)
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Hi all!
You've probably seen this?
http://www.arkivdigital.net/news-item/ArkivDigital_for_free_17-18_march_2012
Jan in Norway
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Thanks Jan, I wasn't aware of this....so will definitely check it out ;)
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Yes, if you use the Arkiv Digital service you can paste this link Östra Nöbbelöv AI:10 (1872-1880) Bild 200 / sid 206 (AID: v105031.b200.s206, NAD: SE/LLA/13525) and find that Lars Larsson was mentioned as a seaman together with his brother Jöns Larsson (born 1839-12-17) and that Lars Larsson was an officer (befäl) in Cardiff in England(!)
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Hi Patrik,
That's amazing! But would that make him an officer in a British regimental system or an officer by Swedish Standards? Do you happen to know what his occupation is listed as in your records as over in Sweden or is he only listed as a dock man (as he is in Cardiff records), which could be a variety of occupations relating to the docks.
I have been told by family that at the time, Cardiff docks was the biggest in the world (a fact that now I see my roots I am very proud of!).
I can provide records of Lars' movements once he arrived in Cardiff if you are interested
Amie
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It only says "befäl" and was the note that the parish vicar wrote down, so he could have been some kind of boss, in command of anything I guess :-) It is interesting that his brother Jöns also seems to have been in company with him.
Did he also settle in the Cardiff area?
One of Lars Larssons' siblings stayed in Sweden, Nils Larsson Wikström (1824-1908) and some of his descendents lived in Helsingborg in southern Sweden.
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I don't know about Jons but I can have a look when I get up tomorrow.
I have all the census records for after Lars arrives in Wales. He marries a monmouth girl called Susannah Haskell and has my great great grandmother, Gertrude Larsson. It all seems a lot more real as I remember their son, Richard Perkins who was my great grandfather.
Amie
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Wow, that's amazing that we have found this connection all those years later. The sons of Nils Larsson Wikström; Lars Henrik (born 1860), Christian (b. 1868) and Johan (b. 1872) as well as the stepson Magnus Månsson (married to Nilla Wikström b. 1864) all were ship owners in Brantevik by the late 19th century.
In fact, Brantevik had one of the biggest merchant navy fleet of Sweden in those days.
Attached is the pedigree tree of Lars Larsson.
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I have to make a correction.
It says "bosatt" and not "befäl".
"Bosatt i Cardiff" just means "Living in Cardiff"
Sorry about the mistake!