RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: BobbiL on Sunday 01 January 12 23:17 GMT (UK)
-
Allcock Family arrived in Ontario 1881 from Worcestershire (Hubert, wife Mary Elizabeth, children Joseph, Ralph Leo, Hubert, John, Beatrice V.) Joseph married into the Ware family, Ralph Leo married into the Bowie family, Beatrice Valentine married into the Wilbur family. Beatrice and Ralph and their families moved to the U.S.
Stone Family arrived in Ontario 1910 from Worcestershire (Beatrice and children Harold, Louisa, Albert, Arthur Hubert). Harold stayed in Toronto and married into the Charlton family. One of his sons married into the Sykes family. Louisa married into the Hamlet family. The remainder of the family went to the U.S.
Does anyone share these ancestors?
-
hi bobbil,
What info are you after? Are you tracing this family forward?
JDC
-
Thank you for replying, JDC. I have tracked these families via censuses in the UK, Canada and the US. I am directly related to them and would value any information from the current time and into the past. I have some family photos and information and would like very much to connect with someone who shares these ancestors.
Bobbi L.
-
Hi Bobbil,
There are a couple of ways I would approach locating the info you are searching for. The first is to look for trees and tree owners on Ancestry.ca/.com for those matching your ancestors. I took a quick look in Ancestry.ca and there appears to be a couple that do match. When you find matches I would contact the owners to see if they are willing to share/exchange family info with you. If you don't have your own access to Ancestry, many local public as well as LDS family history libraries do have access that you can use.
The other way would be to contact the local public libraries in the areas you have traced them to and then ask the librians to do phone directories lookups to find the residences where these people lived. The TOronto public library has a genealogy department. You can do a lookup yourself on www.canada411.ca afterward to see if you can determine current addresses and phone numbers for your relatives from the directory info.
Hope this helps,
JDC
-
Hi BobbiL,
Did Beatrice and Harold Stone move to Buffalo NY? I found a John Harold Stone's from Toronto, son of Beatrice Stone who lived in Buffalo, CEF attestion document on the National Archive of Canada web site. Wondering if heis part of your family?
JDC
-
HI BobbiL,
DO you have a famly tree on Ancestry?
JDC
-
Hi,
You can check the Toronto Star pages of the past site for birth, marriage and death records of the families who remained in Toronto. If you know full names, that will be helpful. It might be a good idea to double check any dates given on online trees...
http://pagesofthepast.ca/
It is a paid site, but not very expensive.
I found a very sparse tree online
http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Hubert_Allcock_(1)
It said that Hubert Allcock jr died in August, 1915. I did a quick check in the Star and found his obituary in the Aug 27 1915 edition at page 15. It says he was the second son of the late Herbert Allcock (I think they meant to say Hubert) and Mary E. Allcock. His full name was Hubert Augustus Allcock and he died Aug 26. He is buried in Mount Hope cemetery Toronto.
Perhaps more members of this family would be buried at Mount Hope cemetery? You could contact them and see.
http://catholic-cemeteries.com/cemeteries/mount-hope-cemetery/
I also see from a birth announcement for Beatrice Valentine Allcock that her father Hubert was a fishing tackle maker in Toronto.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~births/Aa_An_Surnames.htm
In 1894 when Beatrice was born, the family lived at 184 King Street.
RK
-
Hi,
Looks like this might be the family business
http://www.lib.uwo.ca/programs/companyinformationcanada/ccc-allcock.htm
Allcock, Laight and Westwood Limited - fishing tackle etc.
RK
-
Thank you, RunKitty, for replying. I had not seen that particular Allcock reference and didn't realize the company had expanded to Canada. My ancestors worked at the Samuel Allcock company in Worcester. On the UK censuses, the men made fishing tackle and the women and young girls did the delicate work of tying fishing flies (the women probably working at home in a cottage industry). Hubert Sr. (often listed as Herbert just to make things interesting) died in 1900.
I am wondering if Hubert A. was killed in World War I. I did not have the date, only that he died young.
Regarding the Toronto Star, is there a search function by name or date? That would make it worth paying for, for sure.
Thanks for the time you spent finding all you did. It is a big help and I will follow up. I appreciate it so much.
Bobbi L.
-
Hello JDC, thank you for your helpful comments. No, I do not have anything on Ancestry. I want to have all my ducks in a row before I put anything on there. I will take a look at what you found on Ancestry. It's been a while since I checked there. The main problem with Ancestry is that the links to the poster are often outdated. But hope springs eternal!
Yes, John Harold is a relative, and the Stone family did live in Buffalo for a period of time. I did not have that reference, however. Is there a link to what you found that you could give me, please? I believe that John Harold was in the Canadian Expeditionary Forces.
I will try all your good suggestions, including the Canada411. I am in the U.S., and while I'd love to come to the Toronto Library, a visit to Canada is not in my foreseeable future. I have been there as a youngster, and it is beautiful.
Please continue to share your helpful suggestions. I think I am the only one doing any kind of genealogy work on these families, and it helps so much to get ideas from those in the area. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.
-
Hi,
You can check for WW1 records at the Library and Archives Canada site. You will see the Attestation Papers, front and back. Then, there will be a link that explains how to order a complete military file.. if you wish.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php
The War Diaries are also on this site.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/archivianet/020152_e.html
The Toronto Star pages of the past site is a great resource. It is searchable by both name and date. Its search capabilities are not 100 percent though, and sometimes a name search won't turn up what you seek. For example, I couldn't find Hubert A.'s death via a name search. I found him via a date search... having found the date on a family tree online. Sometimes a name search yields way too many "hits" that are NOT what you want and you have to search by exact phrase - hoping that the obit is written in the paper as "last name, first name". Once you get the hang of it, you will be fine. You can download, print and save right from the site...
As for JDC's suggestion about the Toronto Public Library and Directories.. I don't think JDC meant that you had to go in person :) :). The Toronto Public Library has an "Ask a Librarian" feature on their site. If you would like a librarian to check a couple of years for you in the directories, they will. You can make your request by e-mail.
http://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/ask-a-librarian/
RK
-
Thank you, Run Kitty. I'll look up the CEF papers and see what I can find. The leads from you and JDC are a great help and will keep me busy for a while. I'll continue to check here and touch base with you both and will report my findings. I'm hopeful there will be "findings."
Bobbi L.
-
Howdi again bobbiL,
Kitty has given you the link to the National Archive. There is a wealth of info on that site. Here is the link for John's CEF attestation doc:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=254779&interval=20&&PHPSESSID=vnrpklqpnh19ufjqla9i6su367.
JDC
-
Thanks, JDC, for the link to the papers. That helps a lot. I've gone to the site and found navigating it rather intimidating. I appreciate being able to get right to the documents. And I appreciate your kindness and that of RunKitty to a new person like myself. Your help has encouraged me to persevere in finding more on my Canadian relatives.
Bobbi
-
Hi BobbiL,
I am glad to hear that Kitty & I have encouraged you to further trace your family in Canada. It will take a bit of perserverance at times, but well worth it :-)
JDC
-
Hi JDC and RunKitty,
I went to the CEF site and did indeed find John Harold Stone. I looked for his brothers but they were not there, nor was Hubert A. Allcock who died in 1915. I thought Hubert A. might have been killed in the war. The other Allcock brothers were not there either. However, not finding something is as good in a different way as finding something. At least I know where they're not.
Bobbi
-
Hi bobbiL,
If you think another Allcock died in the war, here is another site to check...and you thought it was done...lol.
http://www.cwgc.org/
JDC
-
Hubert died in Toronto at 289 Roncesvalles Ave 26 Aug 1915. Age 37 and single, occupation Broker. Father Hubert Allcock and mother Mary Thompson. Informant Jessie E Allcock of 72 Fermanagh Ave. If you would like the cause of death let me know and I will PM it ... I personally do not put this info on the public forum.
If your local library subscribes to Ancestry Library Edition you would have access to the original image of this record.
PB
-
Here's one to contact to whom you'll be a big help if he still can b econtacted through the older email. Not sure if he is actually related or not, though...
http://genforum.genealogy.com/allcock/messages/235.html
Thread on Beatrice Valentine Allcock -awe she was born Valentine's day! ( altho marriage info has wrong mother without correction, you may be able to aid this bunch as well) :
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CAN-ONT-YORK/2006-01/1136287888
I take it Ethelbert J. from the censuses later used his middle name John? Noted that the site R.K. found had Beatrice as Patrice... ( We need to mention these other versions of the names so as to be found when searching...)
Now see that he was born John so will include his birth information under a different middle name John Polycarp Allcock...Perhaps he had four names...another may added at a religious ceremony...
and not to worry, all this online information will bring many descendants over time.... :) J.J.
-
Hi bobbiL,
If you think another Allcock died in the war, here is another site to check...and you thought it was done...lol.
http://www.cwgc.org/
JDC
Hi to thee, JDC
I did try the csgc link above but so far have not found any Allcocks. I can try other surnames and will.
Genealogy is like housework and gardening. It's never done.
-
Thank you so much replying and passing along that info, Polar Bear. I would like to know the cause of death, please. I appreciate your discretion.
I believe, the Jessie Allcock who reported the death was Hubert's sister-in-law, Jessie Ware Allcock, married to his brother, Joseph.
Thanks to the folks who are replying to this thread, more and more of the puzzle pieces are being found.
Thank you for the cause of death, Polar Bear.
-
J. J., I appreciate your reply.
I would be delighted to be able to help someone with what I know about Hubert and the family. I sent an email to the poster and hope to hear. The problem with this kind of thing is that so often the email gets changed and not updated. Fingers crossed that I'll hear. I'll let you know the outcome here.
Beatrice Valentine Allcock born on Valentine's Day. I wonder how she felt about her name. I think she moved to the U.S., Michigan to be specific. However, I haven't found her death. She and her husband, James Frederick Wilbur, had four children in the 1920's. I found her on a border-crossing record with some of her children.
I don't know what happened regarding the name Adair on the marriage announcement, unless (horrors!) it's a transcription error. It happens to the best of us. Although my Allcocks are not related to Rev. Rose, it appears that the poster is related to the Wilbur family and I replied to her, again with my fingers crossed.
Beatrice's brother John.....what a mess. I'm wondering if one of his brothers answered the census taker and had a little fun with John's name. Ethelbert or Polycarp. Neither is a name I'd have chosen. Apologies to all you Ethelberts and Polycarps out there. I guess I'll try to find another document or source for best two out of three. Just kidding, of course.
-
PM sent.
Allcock seems to be a relatively uncommon name in Toronto. I think there are only 8 in the white pages at this link that jdc gave you earlier. Just put in Allcock and Toronto. Contact info is provided. Perhaps a letter or 3 might turn up a rellie?
http://www.canada411.ca/
PB
-
John may have been named after an ancestor or an important relative....A few Polycarp Allcock on the FHS site and FreeBmd
-
I believe, the Jessie Allcock who reported the death was Hubert's sister-in-law, Jessie Ware Allcock, married to his brother, Joseph.
Jessie Ware Allcock died March 8, 1944 at St. Joseph's hospital. She was the wife of Joseph R. Allcock of 72 Fermanagh Ave. No children or other relatives are named. She was to be buried at Prospect cemetery. You can see the obit at the Toronto Star pagesofthepast site (link posted previously), March 10th 1944 edition, page 24. Her full name here is Jessie Elizabeth Ware Allcock. Joseph survived her.
http://www.mountpleasantgroup.com/pre-planning/cemeteries/properties/p
RK :)
-
Hi,
In your initial post, you said that Ralph Leo Allcock and his family moved to the US... I don't think that they all did. His wife's obit in the Toronto Star, Jan 7 1965, page 38. She died on Jan 4th. It says she had lived in Port Credit, Ontario. Her husband predeceased her. She is buried in St. Mary's cemetery - the funeral was at St. Mary's Church in Port Credit, so I assume this is the attached cemetery. There are some children listed in the obit - so more relatives to find. Only one lived in the US, the rest were in Canada. You can see them in the obit on the pagesofthepast site.
RK :)
-
Hi J.J.
I have received an answer from the link you provided and discovered not a relative but someone who is interested in the fly-fishing industry and the Allcocks. He has info on Hubert and we will be comparing notes. Thanks for the link to him. I think it will be mutually beneficial, which is always nice.
It appears that Polycarp was the name of the father of Samuel Allcock who was the head of Allcock's Fishing Tackle company in Redditch, Worcestershire. It may be that John was named afther him. My new fishing-tackle contact gave me that info. He thinks Hubert was the great-nephew of Samuel.
Hubert's father was John Allcock per Hubert's marriage license, but I don't have a father for John.
I will check out the Polycarps you mentioned and see if any list Samuel as a child and also who else is mentioned. This might be where the often-seen Allcock name of Hubert comes into play.
So the link you provided looks promising. Thanks again.
"Noted that the site R.K. found had Beatrice as Patrice" I believe that was a misinterpretation by the census taker and then transcribed that way...her real name was Beatrice.
Bobbi
-
Hi PolarBear,
Eight Allcocks in Toronto. I might just have to spring for a few phone calls. But they would be well worth the money. Thanks for letting me know.
Bobbi
-
Hi RunKitty,
Thanks for the information on Jessie's death. She and Joseph had at least one child, Dorothy Mary, born in 1904 who married Clarence Alexander Riddell in 1925. Joseph died in 1962.
So much has happened since that inital post, RunKitty. It's like this surname's time has come to be discovered. At that time, the last I'd heard of Ralph Leo and Orian was that they were living in Brooklyn on the 1910 census. I'm glad to know about most of their children being in Canada as well as the one in the U.S.
Thanks again for all your detective work.
Bobbi
-
Hi BobbiL,
Have you checked to see if the company ever did a company history book? Some do, the company where my dad worked did one about 20 years ago. Just a thought.
JDC
-
They were still in the U.S. 1930 Grosse Pointe, Wayne, Michigan with 4 children https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X7SB-QD7 The werelate site called her Orian Bonnie Unknown, so they may have gotten mixed up with the spelling of Bowie...
Glad the information is coming together on the families...Before you know it you'll have descendants contacting you!
;) J.J.
-
Thanks so much, J.J.
Relatives contacting me? I should get so lucky. And if I do, it will be in a huge part thanks to you and the folks here who have been sending information and leads to me and encouraging me on.
Interesting that Ralph Leo. and Orian are shown as being born in New York.
Bobbi
-
Hi again,
Ralph Leo's obit is also in the Star. You can see it in the May 24, 1960 edition at page 32. Ralph died on May 22 1960 at the South Peel Hospital. He is buried at St. Mary's Port Credit, Ontario. There are 7 children listed - the same as in his wife Orian Beatrice's obit.
RK :)
-
Thank you so much for this, RunKitty.
-
Hmmm, never noticed...likely a lazy census taker who just ran the same information down the line, as it also says all parents born New York as well ...altho I can't see the image to know it is written that way...Nevermind they got it right in the 1921 Erie census, both born Canada & parents as well https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MJ2T-XB3
-
Not quite, J.J., as Ralph Leo. was born in Worcestershire, England in 1879. The Allcocks immigrated to Ontario in the late 1800s. The census got Orian Beatrice right, though, as she was born in Montreal. But her father, George Bowie, was born in Scotland.
-
Hello All,
After a day at the nearest Family History Centre, I'm still unable to find the relationship between Polycarp, Sylvester, Samuel, and John Allcock with some kind of proof. I found an elderly Polycarp living with Sylvester but still looking to see how Sylvester, Samuel and John connect.
I have bits and pieces of things with the Allcocks in Canada, the UK and the US and hope to be able to put them together. Conflicting information also has to be resolved.
I'll be working with the cemeteries in Ontario also.
As I prove or learn anything, I'll let all you helpful people know what's happened. I could never have reached such a point of having information and leads without you. What a boost to my searches you have been! Thank you so much.
Not saying "goodbye" so if you do find anything else, please let me know. I'll continue to check here.
Gratefully, Bobbi L
-
Hi again,
Possibly helpful - if you don't already have this:
http://www.inthenetuk.com/pages/VintageRods_AllcocksTheCompany.asp
Looks like Polycarp married 3 times. His son Samuel had daughters, so no more Allcocks there. Perhaps the other Allcocks you are looking for a Polycarp's sons by other wives?
This is interesting about Samuel, son of Polycarp:
http://www.archive.org/stream/shortbiographies00brow#page/n17/mode/2up/search/allcock
RK
-
You might want to check out this thread - perhaps some people to contact re: Allcock family:
http://genforum.genealogy.com/allcock/messages/171.html
RK
-
Thanks so much, RunKitty! That is an incredible website, chock full of the progression of fly-fishing equipment. It would be very interesting even if I weren't distantly related to Samuel. As a child, my grandpa took me fishing at Lake Erie before all the predator fish took over and also in inland streams. I had to bait the hook myself or I couldn't go.
It appears that Polycarp had quite a complex marital history. I'm not sure where the father of John Allcock fits in. John may be the son of Sylvester who was a brother of Samuel but I have no proof of that yet. It would seem that Sylvester would have been older than Samuel, since Samuel was was the youngest child of the third marriage. It boggles the mind, but maybe Polycarp married more than three time?
There are a ton of John Allcocks in Redditch through the years.
-
Hi BobbiL,
Hope you get them all together. I'm sure you'll tackle this well and get them all fly tied in no time :-)
JDC
-
Thanks for the encouragement, JDC. Fly-tied indeed. I'd settle for hog-tied. Then I could get them set where they belong.
What a long, strange trip it's been. I think I'll be forced to create a spreadsheet to keep them sorted.
No complaints. I'm delighted to have material to work with. I certainly have been busy. And as my Dad would say when he gave me a chore to do "This will keep you (meaning me) out of the pool hall." Since I didn't play pool, I never figured out why he said that. It might be that was something he heard as a youngster.
"tackle this well and get them all fly tied in no time" loved the pun :-)
-
Thank you for the link, RunKitty. I've tried emailing those I could. Some disconnects and some have not replied. Fingers crossed once again.
I have found a lead. A John Allcock on the 1871 census has a son Hubert b. 1849. John's wife was Jane Harris. I know this because her mother, Ann Harris, appeared with them on the census.
I went to FreeBMD and found each of them listed separately as being married in March 1847, two years before Hubert's birth, with the marriage registration in Bromsgrove in Worcestershire. If I can find the marriage record, it may show John's father.
I have Allcocks on the brain and am sorting them out as I fall asleep at night.
-
Hi bobbiL,
Yw, thought u might enjoy the comment :-) Depending on the number of people you are tracing, spreadsheets can be hard to work with. You may want to consider a free family free software to start such as Legacy or PAF for windows. If your into Linux, GRAMPS is software is a good one that has been developed for that OS. There is one for the Mac, but I don't remember its name at the moment. Who knows you may become a genealogy addict, if not already...hehe.
Cheers, JDC
-
Hi JDC,
I do have a software program that I use. It is RootsMagic, and I like it a lot. Each program seems to have features that I'd like to have. Most of the differences seem to be in the Reports functions and what they do or do not produce.
I was thinking of spreadsheets for comparing data on people with the same name who are in the same area and close in age.
I haven't gotten around to it, yet, though.
I am definitely addicted to genealogy. There just doesn't seem enough time to explore all the surnames and resources that I'd like to.
-
I have done a bit of research on Hubert and his family, and his business in Toronto, making fishing tackle. I will send this to anyone who needs it. If anyone has any photos, could they send me some for my files. Thanks. (By the way, he is related to Sam Allcock, who created Allcock, Laight & Westwood Co. Ltd. but the Allcock in the company name stands for 'Samuel' and not 'Hubert', although I believe he did work at alw for awhile.