RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: shimminallen on Monday 02 January 12 20:57 GMT (UK)
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Two of my great uncles immigrated to Victoria separately around 100 years ago. I don't know when my great uncle Walter Robinson (born c1881, father William Evans Robinson, mother Annie Jackson) came to Australia nor whom he married but he had at least one child, Edna. I understand she married Jim Keenes and lived in Frankston, but died in 1982.
Walter's half-brother Frank (born 1899) came out with his mother Elizabeth and sister Ida Muriel in about 1910. Muriel married Ted Marsh in Cheltenham but then returned to the UK. Her mother followed later, but Frank stayed and had at least one son, John, who married Helen, and lived in Belinda Avenue, Research.
I haven't been able to find any appropriate entries in the passenger lists either arriving in Victoria or departing the UK for Australia.
Although there are 9 Robinsons in the Melbourne white pages and 66 for the area, unsurprisingly none show an obvious connection to mine. There appear to be no Victorian newspaper obits that match my relatives. I haven't paid for any bdm certificates yet as I'm hoping to find someone who actually knows a relative first.
Any help gratefully received!
Des
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There are the following possibilities for Edna and Jim KEENES.
Springvale Botanical Cemetery
KEENES James Henry George Cremated 28/04/1989
KEENES Edna Mary Cremated 2/07/1982
http://deceasedsearch.com/index.php
Leanne
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Thanks very much for this. I will see where this leads me.
Des
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Do you have any second names for any of your family?
Electoral rolls show:
James Henry George KEENES and Edna May KEENES at the following addresses - Googlemap will often show a street view of the houses. Edna's occupation is consistently listed as 'home duties' so I have only recorded James's.
1931, litho-printer, 20 Maxwell St, Camberwell
1936, 1949, 1963, 1968 printer, 73 Daley St, Bentleigh
1972, 1977 no occupation shown, 91 Flinders St, McCrae
1980 no occupation, 6 Towerhill Rd, Frankston
1980 is the extent of the online rolls.
No help in furthering your search though! :(
Judith
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Death
ROBINSON Walter
Father Evan William Mother Annie JACKSON
At Caulfield 73 years 1954 Reg#7891
Cando
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Many thanks, Judith. I checked out Leanne's info and found Jim Keenes was 81 in 1989 when he died so he probably retired from printing about 1972. The Towerhill Rd address is the one I have.
I searched the cemeteries for John Robinson and there are 74, with 10 for Helen. As I don't know their age or indeed if they have died yet, it is not a great help.
Many thanks to Cando, too. That will be my great uncle. His parents were Edward Robinson and Ann Evans, so he was William Evans Robinson. Searching for that term drew a blank though, so it is interesting to see it became Evan William.
Des
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Marriage
ROBINSON Walter
ABRAM Winifred
1917 Reg#4053
Australian Electoral Roll
1924
ROBINSON Walter Mawdesley, Annot Street, Caulfield Bricklayer
ROBINSON Winifred Mawdesley, Anott Street, Caulfied HD
1931
ROBINSON Walter Mawdesley, Hollaway Street, Caulfield East Builder
ROBINSON Winifred Mawdesley Hollaway Street, Caulfied East HD
Cando
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I don't know when my great uncle Walter Robinson (born c1881, father William Evans Robinson, mother Annie Jackson) came to Australia nor whom he married but he had at least one child, Edna. I understand she married Jim Keenes and lived in Frankston, but died in 1982.
Death
ROBINSON Walter
Father Evan William Mother Annie JACKSON
At Caulfield 73 years 1954 Reg#7891
Many thanks to Cando, too. That will be my great uncle. His parents were Edward Robinson and Ann Evans, so he was William Evans Robinson. Searching for that term drew a blank though, so it is interesting to see it became Evan William.
Bit confused now :) The information is now a little different on the above quote from your original request.
Cando
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Death
ROBINSON Winifred
Father William Abram Mother Ann DOBSON
At Ormond 76 years 1961 Reg#17289
Either Winifred or Walter's death certificate would detail the names of their children. You can purchase certificates online [AUD$17.50] and immediately download
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage
Information on Victorian Certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html
Cando
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Many thanks again, Cando. It is now past my bedtime here in London. I omitted to state that I was referring to his father William not my great uncle Walter. Your info
ROBINSON Walter
Father Evan William Mother Annie JACKSON
Evan William/William Evans Robinson was the son of Edward Robinson and Ann Evans. Edward was a successful builder in Southport, Lancs until I understand he fell off a ladder. His son William was not successful in running the family business, but it is interesting to see that Walter continued with the trade in Melbourne.
Thanks, too for Winifred's details.
Des
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KEENES Edna Mary
Father Robinson Walte
Mother Evelyn
Death Place FRAN
Age 74
Year 1982
Reg Number 14663
Sue
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www.naa.gov.au
has a digitised ww1 service record,available for viewing online, for an Ernest ABRAM, born Ormskirk,occupation builders labourer.
N.O.K Winifred ABRAM
Contains marriage info for Ernest,page 27 of 28,, married at:
"Thorn House"
Mawdesley
Leanne
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Is it possible that Walter was married previously?
If the information on this death reg is accurate, Edna was born c1912 before Walter's marriage to Winifred.
KEENES Edna Mary
Father Robinson Walte
Mother Evelyn
Death Place FRAN
Age 74
Year 1982
Reg Number 14663
Cheers
Cando
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Oops I mean c1908..
Cando
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Long shot...but could this be her birth
Births Jun 1908
ROBINSON Edna Mary Ormskirk 8b/926
Certs need to be sighted here.
Cando
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There is a much earlier marriage in England , age is way out though for an 1881 birth, as follows:
Marriages Jun 1891
ROBINSON Walter Ormskirk 8b 1046
BATES Evelyn Gertrude Ormskirk 8b 1046
so may not be connected.
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Leanne
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I can't find a marriage for a Walter to an Evelyn in Aus however however there is this one in Ormskirk the same registration district as the speculative birth for Edna Mary.
Marriages Mar 1904
ROBINSON Walter Ormskirk 8/1026
WARE Mary Eveline Ormskirk 8b/1026
The marriage cert in 1917 should note Walter's status. I'll see if I can find them on the 1911 census.
Cando
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Yes same occupation and wife's name is Mary Eveline and they are both the same age. Three kids and Edna is the middle one.
Cando
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Death
ROBINSON Mary Eveline
Father Ware Samson Mother Jane Ingham
At Ivanhoe 1915 34 years Reg#9613
Cando
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Australian Electoral Roll
1914
ROBINSON Mary Eveline Park Street Ivanhoe HD
ROBINSON Walter Park Street Ivanhoe Bricklayer
Cando
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Marriage Mar 1878:
Possibility:
WARE Sampson Truro 5c 203
INGHAM Jane Truro 5c 203
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Leanne
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Would appear to be the WARE family on the 1881 U.K Census:
Piece: RG11/2311
Place: St Clements -Cornwall
Enumeration District: 13
Civil Parish: Truro St. Mary
Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 27 Page: 8 Schedule: 34
Address: S. Nicholas St
WARE Mary E. Dau - F 4m Cornwall - Truro
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Leanne
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Going back to Jim and Edna KEENES,
both are listed on the Probate Register for Victoria
http://scvprobate.com.au/probate/Search/ApplicationIndex.aspx
Leanne
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Marriage
ROBINSON Walter
ABRAM Winifred
1917 Reg#4053
CANDO #6
Death of a sister of enlistee ERNEST ??
ROBINSON Peggy Elaine
Father Walter
Mother Winifred ABRAM
Death Place MELB
Age 54
Year 1977
Reg Number 28396
Sue
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Marriage
ROBINSON Walter
ABRAM Winifred
1917 Reg#4053
CANDO #6
Death of a sister of enlistee ERNEST ??
ROBINSON Peggy Elaine
Father Walter
Mother Winifred ABRAM
Death Place MELB
Age 54
Year 1977
Reg Number 28396
Sue
Sue I would suggest that Ernest ABRAM is Winifred's brother. He was 28 year 10 months of age in 1916.
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=3018645&S=1&T=R
Births Jun 1887
ABRAM Ernest Chorley 8e/546
According to Winifred's death reg she was born c1885
Births Dec 1884
ABRAM Winifred Chorley 8e/522a
Cando
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http://210.8.122.120/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=23
Arriving on the WILCANNIA 1911 Port B Fiche827 Page 001
ABRAM Mrs Annie 58 years
ABRAM Ernest 23 years
ABRAM Frank 29 years
ABRAM John 27 years
ABRAM William 63 years
ABRAM Winifrd 26 years
Cando
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On the 1914 electoral roll Ernest, Frank, John and Winifred are living at Ivanhoe. Parents Wm and Ann both died in 1912.
Cando
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Sue I would suggest that Ernest ABRAM is Winifred's brother. He was 28 year 10 months of age in 1916. CANDO
Yes, :D
{There are moments when it would be a good idea for me to either tune in or tune out ;)}
Have had a look around for WALTER's half brother FRANK in Victoria, but do not see his death in Victoria to 1985.
Do you know his wife's name Des? [if she is deceased it is permitted to publish it]
Sue
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Another child of the WALTER ROBINSON/MARY EVELINE marriage.
Death
ROBINSON William Alfred
Father Walter
Mother Mary WARE
Death Place MENT
Age 63
Year 1969
Reg Number 24013
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.asp?ServiceID=A&VeteranID=495098
ww2 summary for WILLIAM ALFRED
Sue
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TROVE has
a silver wedding notice 1940 for a Frank ABRAM m someone with surname WRIGHT in 1915
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11304423
birth notice 1920 for a son to 'Mr and Mrs E ABRAM, nee HODSON (late Mawdesley, Omskirk, Lancashire).
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1675510
Judith
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A possibility for the ABRAM/WRIGHT son:
http://tributes.heraldsun.com.au/obituaries/heraldsun-au/obituary-search.aspx?daterange=99999&lastname=abram&countryid=11&stateid=201&affiliateid=2413
WW2 Enlistment
http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.asp?ServiceID=R&VeteranID=869554
Leanne
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Thank you so much Leanne, Judith, Sue, Cando! I am truly amazed at how much you have unearthed in just a few hours. It is certainly looking a lot more likely that I have living relatives out there in Victoria.
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I am sorry but I don't have any other second names. I do have two birthday books though. One was given in 1900 to Walter's sister Ethel - my grandmother - on her 16th birthday, and the other belonged to Ida Muriel, brother of Frank, whom I mentioned in my first post.
Very interestingly Mary E. Ware appears in Ethel's book on 24 November.
ROBINSON Mary Eveline
Father Ware Samson Mother Jane Ingham
At Ivanhoe 1915 34 years Reg#9613
Now there is another family mystery connected to Australia, that is much more of a long shot, but may perhaps be connected to these results. We have an old photo, which I am attaching, of the Edward Robinson - Ann Evans family. This was sent by Violet Horsey to Ida Muriel Robinson, probably in the 1960s or 1970s, with the notes that I have added beneath it.
The children in the image should be:
William b1851
Emma Jane b1851
Agnes b1857
Mary Jane b1859
James b1861
Laura b1864
Alice b1866
from the UK census (many thanks to Grant Griffiths of Aus for sharing his intersecting, if erroneous, tree)
So judging from the ages Violet must have made an error, most likely with Alice, and that the seated girl on the left is Agnes, Alice is on the floor at the front, and that Violet's mother was Laura, at the back; William Evans is standing at the back on the right. I didn't know about any of these aunts and uncle of my grandmother until rather recently, and I have no other information about Violet other than that she had a daughter Rona Woodroffe.
Anyway, in the note is a cryptic reference to 'Emmeline' and Australia, so I was wondering if this was a mis-remembered Eveline, and that Emma Jane Robinson was the mother of Mary E Ware. For this to be true Jane would need to be on her second marriage. She might have married Mr Ingham, and then after he died married her first cousin Walter.
Muriel's bday book gives Frank's bday as 27 April, though Ethel's doesn't mention him.
I will need to post further questions on the family to Robinsons of Lancashire.
A separate question - is MENT short for a place near melbourne?
Death
ROBINSON William Alfred
Father Walter
Mother Mary WARE
Death Place MENT
Age 63
Year 1969
Reg Number 24013
Many thanks
Des
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MENT is an abbreviation for Mentone - a suburb of melbourne
Electoral Roll 1968
William Alfred ROBINSON, 2A Fourth St, S. 11, builder
At same address Christina ROBINSON, home duties
I am not sure if this is the current Parkdale or Black Rock - I think it may be Parkdale. (Australia changed from old post codes which were somewhat similar to the old London ones to new ones which are four digits) Someone else may be able to let us know.
Judith
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Here is the marriage of EDNA's brother WILLIAM ALFRED
ROBINSON Wm Alfred
To LE GREW Christina
Year 1928
Registration Number 9338
The couple were cremated at Springvale and are located together.
http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php
Christina Robinson. Date- 10/07/1992
Aged 85
She was born in Victoria and we can provide further details of her and her family if of interest. :)
Sue
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Many thanks again, Judith and Sue. Yes, I would be interested in Christina's family, notably her children, who would be my second cousins. :)
FWIW going through Ethel's birthday book closely I find a Violet Atkinson in child's writing, and also a Laura Atkinson and a James Atkinson. So presumably Laura Robinson married James Atkinson and Violet was their daughter.
There is no James Robinson so he may have died. There is an Alice Slater, and also Eleanor, J. F. and E. Slater, so it may be a young Alice Slater in the photo. But there is also a Sissie Hirst and a Martha Hirst; Sissie might also be the Alice in the photo. There is no Mr Hirst listed in the book, and no Emma or Agnes of any kind.
Des
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Hi
I should perhaps have been clearer when I said.....
we can provide further details of her and her family if of interest.
Sue
I meant the her parents and siblings, not her own offspring.
We do not usually discuss those who may still be living in Rchat.
For your interest her parents had a number of children in Melbourne.
Father HENRY ARTHUR GEORGE LE GREW Mother CHRISTINA ISABELLE MCMILLAN
Mary Olive SOUTH YARRA 1898 Reg. 22199
Hy Fredk Chas FCRAY 1900 Reg. 11076
Cath Alderson Isabel HAWTH Year 1902 Reg. 18914
Arth Jno HAWTH Year 1904 Reg. 3514
Ctina KEW 1907 Reg. 4080
Geo KEW 1909 Reg. 11959
Melville Ernest NORTH FITZROY 1912 Reg. 20149
Theyre Walker FITZ N 1914 Reg. 12592. Died 1915 Reg. 1332
Yvonne Jean NORTHCOTE 1918 Reg. 22014
This link is to some research on le grew done by others
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0j9q/
Sue
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OK thanks. I understand the caution. I see Christina was one of 9 and from your link there are lots of other Le Grews too. The link states that Christina Le Grew born in 1907 of Henry Le Grew and Christina Isabel Macmillan died in 1960 and was buried at Ballarat. Am I misinterpreting something?
Eventually perhaps I and my cousins will get some contact with new second etc cousins.
I posted for Robinson of Southport Lancs, and with great help from another RootsChat Marquess established much of the family of the Violet who wrote the notes on my photo.
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Here is the death.
LEGREW Christina Isabel
Father Mcmillan John
Mother:Christina Is UNKNOWN
Death Place BALLARAT
Age 84
Year 1960
Reg Number 21983
Sue
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Burial Information
BALLARAT CEMETERY
LE GREW, CHRISTINA I. Aged 84. Wife. Date 26/4/1960. Location, New Cemetery. Lawn A 1.7
Same location as
LE GREW, HENRY GEORGE. Aged 91. Inmate. Date 20/8/1963.
No others at that location. No MI.
Sue
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Current telephone listing shows only 2 Le Grew entries in Australia - might be worth a letter :)
http://www.whitepages.com.au/search/residential?subscriberName=&location=
Judith
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I have just come across some old scribbled notes that say that Edna had a sister *** and her married ****** and the name of her daughter. Also the names of 2 granddaughters of Frank Robinson. So that may be enough for me to trace some of them and get more info. Many thanks again for the help up to this point.
Des
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Des, I was wondering in reply #27 whether you knew the name of FRANK ROBINSON's wife.
You believe he remained in Australia and presumably married here.
Is that correct?
Was the "sister of EDNA" from Walter's first or second marriage? That is to say , was she a full or half sister? And are you searching in Australia for her, believing that is where she had children and died?
Sue
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Des, I was wondering in reply #27 whether you knew the name of FRANK ROBINSON's wife.
You believe he remained in Australia and presumably married here.
Is that correct?
Was the "sister of EDNA" from Walter's first or second marriage? That is to say , was she a full or half sister? And are you searching in Australia for her, believing that is where she had children and died?
Sue
Sue, in a much delayed answer to your questions, I now have more information about the family derived from some letters we found.
Edna was one of 3 children of Walter Robinson from his first wife Mary. The others were William Alfred b1906 and Florence. Edna married Jim Keenes but died in 1982. They seem to have had 2 daughters, F**** and B****. B wrote to my cousin in 1989 or so to relate the story of her father's death. The address of connemara avenue, aspendale seems no longer to exist though. B had 3 children born in the 50s. I assume all of these are still alive.
Edna's sister Florence is presumably dead or she would be 110 or so. She married a Mr Ralph or Ralphs. They had a daughter S**** who may still be alive, who in turn had at least 2 children.
Frank married Macia I understand. They had a son J who may still be alive, and who married H****. They had 2 daughters S**** and F****. I don't know if they are married and now have married surnames.
Meanwhile, with the direct help of a very aged living relative I tracked down another set of relatives living in Western Australia, descended from relatives of the photo I posted above. Some of them are on facebook and I had an interesting conversation with them there.
The Melbourne branch have unknown or very common family names and I have no recent addresses for any of them.
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Good to hear your searches are going well and you are in touch with descendants.
Sue
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There is a Connewarra Avenue in Aspendale, Victoria.
You may be able find some contacts in the White Pages telephone directory.
https://www.whitepages.com.au/residential
Judith
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There is a Connewarra Avenue in Aspendale, Victoria.
You may be able find some contacts in the White Pages telephone directory.
https://www.whitepages.com.au/residential
Judith
Yes, indeed - at exactly the same address as I have from 1989. Many thanks.
Des