RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Chattykathy on Wednesday 11 May 05 18:22 BST (UK)
-
This is a real quandry and I'm stymied as to how to research it.
Daniel Moran b. 1864 in "America" M/F b. England -- per 1910 US Census. The odd thing is that instead of putting down a specific state - it say "America".
Odder yet, there is an immigration date of 1883.
Daniel would have missed census in 1880;
1890 N/A but I know from local records & childrens births, he was in Colorado and they probably went their straight away.
1900 -- Family in Colorado where 1 child born -- they are in route to Kansas City were 2 more children follow.
Daniel in Kansas City in 1910 w/ nearly all family.
Daniel Dies btwn 1910-1920 so no more opportunties to check his Census info.
His oldest dau indicates on 2 census - her Father b. in Rhode Island and New York.
Youngest dau (my grandmother), says her father born in Scotland!
ARRRRG!
So my theory is Daniel may have been born in route to US in 1864. For some reason may have returned to Eng/Scotland to come back in 1883 with wife Anna F. (or T.) (m. approx. 1882)
Wife Anna provides no clue as don't know her maiden name and she bounces all over the place as to where born and where parents born -- but I'm embracing that she was born in Scotland, Father born in Scotland (thou may be of Irish descent) and Mother born in Ireland (but maybe living in Scotland/England.
Is this as hopeless as I think it probably is?
Several months ago I saw some info on "born in route" but can't find it now.
MANY thanks for any help suggestions!
Kathy
-
Did you say you had this or not Cathy?
Name: Daniel Moran
Arrival Date: 9 Dec 1863
Estimated Birth Year: 1863
Age: 0
Age Months: 10
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Great Britain
Ship Name: Australia
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 47
Microfilm Roll: 236
List Number: 1212
Regards
Annie
:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
-
Annie, NO! I did not have this!!! --- the few Moran Immi/Pass records I have found & looked for would have placed him much older.
Will see if I can find a Passenger list for "Austrialia" to find parents/siblings.
I don't think the trip across the pond would take 10 months in 1864 even if by sail and no steam power -- so still interesting about why "born in America" but with an immigration date of 1883 ---- soooo -- born to Eng/Scot parents as a citizen of UK, they/he went back to the UK at some point only for him to return in 1883.
Bad enough to find one crossing! -- but putting 3 together makes your head spin.
Excuse my mussings.....thanks again for this lead!Regards,
Kathy
-
OK? Are you sitting comfortably ??? ??? ??? ???
Mary Moran aged 40
Matthew Moran aged 11
Annie Moran aged 6
Peter Moran aged 7
Mary Moran aged 4
Martin Moran aged 3
Daniel Moran aged 10 ? either weeks or months ??
All travelling together on the Australia
Then
1870 Census
1171 ? Holyoke Mass
Martin Moran aged 48 Hod Carrier b. Ireland
Mary aged 46 Keeping house Ireland
Peter aged 18 Hostler? England
Mary aged 13 in Wasp Mill?
Daniel aged 9 attends school
Ann aged 15 in cotton mill
No sign of Martin on the same ship - I'll keep looking for him OK?do these people sound familiar?there's images.....
Annie
-
Annie, Blimey!!!! I just found the "Australia" (just as you just did!) with Daniel's brother Martin @ 3 years old which is exactly right for the Martin I STRONGLY suspect is his brother who was with him Colorado for nearly 20 years!!
Martin also must have returned "home" at some point 'cause he also has an immigration date of 1882 but always indicated born in England!!!
Martin, father, was a "HOG" dealer, maybe?? which makes perfect sense --- the return ships from US to England usually carried livestock and lumber!
Son Martin was a brick mason in Denver/Leadville Colorado
Son Daniel was a Tailor -- but they Holyoke is a textile area so maybe that's where he picked up that trade???
guess they may have had enough of the hogs!
See a new email coming in -- is that you???
Annie, this is a major find!!!!!!!!
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!
Kathy
-
Kathy I live in Colorado - let me know if you need anything.....!
Annie ::)
-
Where did you get the 1883 stuff from ??
I can keep checking census - I've seen the images - I'm not very good at sending but I'll give it a go ................ what do you think?
by the way a Hod Carrier is a guy who carries the bricks for the bricklayer or stone mason.....
Annie ???
-
Annie, I've been doing a very happy little dance!!!! all around the computer!!! And you being in Denver is amazing!
Martin w/ Wife Annie & 8 children are very well documented. I have addresses for them and have even been able to follow the children. Martin commuted between Denver & Leadville doing masonery work including one of the Hotels in Denver --- will find that address and maybe you'll know which one and if still there. Will look all this up and send up PM to see if it imspires any thoughts.
Daniel and family -- I have never found in Denver -- they got there in 1883 and left about 1900 so missed 1880 census and of course no 1890. Daniel worked at Appel & Company as a Tailor and in 1890 they lived @ 2912 Market.
Wife Annie T. (or F.) b. May 1862 (tho the date moves around a bit) in Scotland?? or Eng of Irish descent -- all that moves around too.
John J. b. March 1883
Mary E. "Maime" (Davenport) b. Jun 1888
Edward D b. Dec 1889
Pearle (Chamberlain) b. Dec 1892
Lillian F. b. 1894
Maud b. 1895
Mabel K. b. 1896/97
All above children born in Colorado
Lincoln R or B. born in Lincoln Nebraska in May 1899
Found Annie in NB with all children in 1900 census but NO
Daniel and No son John -- Annie is "head" of family.
Garnett (King) b. 1901 in KCMO (my grandmother)
Catherine (Caldwell, I think) b. 1908 in KCMO
Only census where I found Danile was 1910 with whole family in KCMO -- he was a Tailor/Merchant Annie a Shirtmaker????
Then he dies between 1910-1920 -- which my grandmother told me he died when she was a child)
Anna continues on in 1920/1930 in KCMO.
SO this is major to find part of Daniel history which has been a realy mystery --- now if I can find Annie!!!!!
I have looked for Daniel & Martin's nautralization in Colorado but found nothing.
Just saw your message on HOD carrier -----perfect!!!!!! Never hear that term! On of Martin's sons was also a bricklayer.
The 1883 date is from 1910 census -- Daniel and Annie in Jackson Co., Missouri (Kansas City, MO)
I'll get Martins info together and send shortly
Annie --- unbelieveable how one little piece brings everything together!
Kathy
-
Well see - you were looking for Annie in Denver and you found me........ :P :P
LOL
Give me a list of your addresses and I'll see if they're still there and take pictures....
I had to laugh though because Market St in the 1890's was the red light district - all the sporting houses were there......... ;) ;) ;)
Wouldn't that be funny ?? - no wonder they kept coming and going across the pond.....!!!!
Seriously just tell me what you want and I'll try and get it for you!!
Regards
Annie
-
Annie, just sent a Private Message with all of Martin's details. Pasted in from my Word notes so may read a little funny!
That's funny!!! about the Red Light District -- maybe that's why Martin is in 3 places at once and Daniel missing in action in Nebraska! Tho as you can see by the children -- he didn't miss much at home!
I need to put all this together and explore the Holyoke MA connection and then I'll be back to you about what might be of interest in Denver.
All of this is so far out from the family lore -- or at least what I knew of it -- but I was a little kid -- and I think there were quite a few things that just flew right over my head!!!!
Anna was supposedly a quite unusual person -- so unusual, they might have used her as kindling in Salem or perhaps committed her in 1890's Denver!!!
I think I'm going to be up all night!!
I'm in the U.S Virgin Islands, by the way -- time zone same as EDT.
Thanks again, Annie -- you are right I went looking for an Annie x 2 and got 3!!!!
I'll also send my email via PM -- it's a little easier than back & forth on the board!
Best regards,
Kathy
-
Kathy
Sometime when you've got nothing to do...... :P
check this out
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~sabthomp/colorado/denver/code.htm
Annie
-
Hey Annie -- don't think you got my last PM cause my computer had a tantrum from too much multi tasking and then I couldn't get back on line! Too tired to reiterate everything but will try to recap tmw.
Sorry to be redundant about Kings -- as you've no doubt seen -- I've been blitzing with everything in hopes of pushing forward -- to day was a good day -- the blitz worked. However, I forget who I've talked to. Sorry!
Are you talking Census images?? No need to send -- I can access Ancestry for everything American (but not UK) so if you find somethng just tell me where and I'll go find it and print it out. But VERY nice of you to offer.
I'm pretty sure I've been to the rootsweb site as I use them extensively. Also Colorado Clues--- I got several things from there as they focus on 1895.
I grew up in KS but lived in NM & AZ for years. My parents were into mines, ghost towns and indian ruins. Spent a lot of time in CO -- mainly La Plata/Durango area but north also. Do you know the Loews Giorgio Hotel in Cherry Creek (I think that's the place -- I worked on that renovation there in the 80's.
When did you come to US -- from Liverpool -- I assume??
I don't think Anna Moran was a madam -- but you never know!!! Family story is that she was a medium/channeler and supposedly made a living at it. Lots of stories about her in this regard. In 1910 Census in KCMO she lists a profession - 2 or 3 words -- I'm guessing shirtmaker/merchant????. And that fits with Daniel being a tailor. So if you know any CO lore about a "fortune teller" could be her...
I need to mull over everything found today. Going to look for missing Martin in 1870 -- maybe with other missing Brother Matthew. Found Martin & Mary (the parents) in 1880 in Holyoke -- Martin still "hodding" no kids at home.....hmmmm had Daniel and Martin gone "home" to arrange for brides???
Will work on all this tmw -- think I need a glass of wine...I'm pooped but so excited about figuring Daniel out. 2 months ago I didn't even know his or Anna names!!! I'll probably be back at it by in the middle of the night!
Now if I could get lucky with the Fanning's --- a very COLD trail. Oops just saw mail ....maybe you???
Have a good evening!!!
Kathy
-
OK Kathy - here's the thing - this could be your Annie - she could have had another child that died.....
but I want you to look at the manifest and a couple of passengers under the Morans
is a Fanning....... do I deliver or what???????
you just didn't tell me which one.....!
Name: Annie Moran
Arrival Date: 30 Sep 1889
Estimated Birth Year: 1859
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Place of Origin: ??
Ship Name: Servia
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 5
Microfilm Roll: 539
List Number: 1347
Annie
-
I'll look this up -- I've been working on the theory that Anna and Daniel were married about a year before 1st child arrived in CO. -- but that could be wrong of course. Need to lay everything old and new out on paper and see what lines up date and event wise. This is getting very complicated.
Boy you will be the GREATEST if you find the Fanning brothers from "somewhere" in Ireland to KS in 1865! Can't even get them figured out in Kansas much less going in reverse with NOTHING to go on.
K
-
Kathy - there's 3 Fannings here and you could make a case for all of them... Edward - could be Lawrence E.....
Name: Edward Fanning
Arrival Date: 29 Sep 1865
Estimated Birth Year: 1844
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Ireland
Ship Name: Virginia
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 9
Microfilm Roll: 256
List Number: 938
Annie
-
Edward is a repeated family name --- shows up in every generatinal pod. It's possible that Lawrence, who also went by L.E. was called Edward in Ireland because his father was Lawrence too. When he came to US he may have switched back -- and there is every likelyhodd that he went by "Bud"
One of Lawrence's kids in Lawrence Martin -- he went by Martin.
And another grandson, Lawrence R. (Richard) went by "Dick".
See --- told ya this would make you crazy!
-
Hi Kathy
I haven''t had a chance to go through this ye - t but there's a few Moran's mentioned and also some guy called James Daily - who stole underwear from Appel and Co...................... just thought I'd share that !!!!!! I didn't get to naturalizations section - when you get a chance check it out....!
http://coloradoclues.com/snames.htm
Annie
-
I think you have these already ....
Name: Daniel J. Moran
Location 2: r. 2912 Market
Business Name: Appel & company
Occupation: tailor
Year: 1890
City: Denver
State: CO
Name: Martin Moran
Location 2: r. 223 34th avenue
Occupation: bricklayer
Year: 1890
City: Denver
State: CO
Annie
-
'morning!
I've been thru the ColoradoClues site a couple of times but they are always adding things so will recheck.
Yes I have that 1890 Directory Entry for Daniel.
Also have 1913 Denver Directory showing a couple of Martin's children residing @ 1008 W. 14th St.
Found brother Matthew in 1870 in Holyoke MA -- he's a Hod Carrier & newly married to a Mary who's a little older than him. They have a 7 yr old Michael Spelman living there -- assuming this is child/relative of wife Mary.
So far Martin at 12 yrs still missing. Could be "farmed" out to another relative????
Looked for Martin the father arriving in advance of family in 1862/63 -- couldn't be any earlier than that if Daniel 10 mos. when family comes in Dec '63 -- so far "nada"
That leaves son Peter to search for....
Didn't find Martin & Mary (parents) in 1900 -- would have been in their 70's so either have died or maybe living with one of the kids. Hopefully Peter 'cause prob. won't be able to find the girls!
Daniel & Martin both use "J" as their initial -- maybe for John -- John & Mary appear as names of 1st born children -- so maybe connected to parents names -- so maybe Martin, the father, is John Martin .....just another confusing thought!
What does "Jno" stand for as a name abbreviation??
Also checked out some Fanning stuff (again!) still nothing come up as likely.
Worked a bit on Emily Brown -- no births in Philly that aren't also tied to a census report or a death in US. Philadelphia has a pretty extensive site for requesting Birth records for 1860-1906 but you have to submit form & $9.
Weel, that's been my morning -- and yours??
Kathy
-
Hi Girl
Well it's Friday the 13th - and I'm contemplating going back to bed :P :P
But I did have an epiphany today .............
you probaly have known this for ever but I only "got" it today.......
no 1890 census for America but there is 1890 CityDirectories......................!!!!!
I've been everywhere for Emily Brown - gosh I wish I could find it - it would mean so much to Emma...........
You did good today - sounds like you're on a roll - I'm trying to do some stuff on the May Brickwall Challenge for Mike - but guess what? I hit a brickwall too..............!!!!
so I'm still sitting here in my jammies - thinking I should be doing something - but it's only 8am so I'll have another cup of coffee and try again for another hour.....!! :-\
Annie
-
By the way - I assumed JNO was Junior...!
Annie
-
ah so!!!!
Funny how it will say "Jno Moran" sometimes with no Moran directly above, below to reference to.....
-
Name: Martin Moran
Arrival Date: 22 Jun 1874
Estimated Birth Year: 1856
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Ireland
Ship Name: City of Richmond
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 11
Microfilm Roll: 391
List Number: 651
I was thinking this was the father b 1855-1863 married to Annie in Ill 1885
but it's the son right? but now I'm confused............ is this the bricklayer????
let me know OK?
Annie
-
Name: Martin Moran
Arrival Date: 22 Jun 1874
Estimated Birth Year: 1856
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Ireland
Ship Name: City of Richmond
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 11
Microfilm Roll: 391
List Number: 651
I was thinking this was the father b 1855-1863 married to Annie in Ill 1885
but it's the son right? but now I'm confused............ is this the bricklayer????
let me know OK?
Annie
sorry for the double but I timed out and clicked again duh!!!! :-X
-
What about this?????
Name: MORAN, DANIEL
Initials: D
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Civilian
Regiment: Civilian War Dead
Age: 77
Date of Death: 24/08/1940
Additional information: of 1 Copper Street, Southsea. Died at Royal Portsmouth Hospital.
Casualty Type: Civilian War Dead
Cemetery: PORTSMOUTH, COUNTY BOROUGH
Annie
-
HMMMM...this is interesting....
Son of Martin i.e. Martin b. 1856-1858 is NOT with family in Holyoke, MA in 1870 census he would be about 12-14 yrs old in 1870.
If he came in 1863 with family, went back in between only to return in 1874 @ age 18????? Don't understand why someone of that age would be going back in forth? This son, Martin I think marries in Chicago then on to CO. He is a brickmason like his father.
Okay enough mussing around...going to Look up "City of Richmond" and see if he's traveling with anyone we can id.
Also, someone just told me that in UK census age often rounded off to nearest 5 years so when you see ages in even "5" or "0" -- like Robert 50 Betty 40 and John 10 in sequence they probably aren't actual ages but rounded off! Have you found this to be true???
EGAD!!! as if this isn't hard enough!
I'll let you know further about above Martin.
Tks!!!
K
-
Girl, you are just spitting this stuff out!!!
No "J" for M.I. for Martin and Daniel (sons)
What would "civilian war dead" mean -- what we call "collateral damage" now days??
Don't think this is a drect tie in as everyone in this lineage in US in 1940 but could be a side or parallel line.
-
Civilian War Dead is when somebody got killed in the bombing.... My granddad was a Civilian War Dead and they come under the Commonwealth War Graves theres a certificate and pictures of the cemeteries etc - I was just checking in case your missing guys fought in WW!!! :P I'm up to the E morans right now - they usually give either parents names or wives names...!
Annie
PS 1841 they rounded to the 5's
-
Annie,
Got it! Think everybody in this group too old for WWII
Checked out the City of Richmond -- Also on the page was a Thos Moran Age 20 but no way to really link him to Martin.
Also, "City of Paris" Arr in NY May 5, 1875 Martin Moran age 20
Farmer, seemingly traveling on his own -- no other names that can be associated.
Tks for 1841 age rounding info --
bye bye
k
-
No WW1 too !!
Annie
-
wonder if they went on the Oregon Trail???? look at the route...just the wrong year
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/WE-OregonTrail.html
Annie
-
Girl - found this in Leadville do you have it? I can't remember if this is within the time limit........came across it while I was looking for something else!!
Name: Daniel Moran
Location 2: 706 e. 7th.
Occupation: miner
Year: 1883
City: Leadville
State: CO
Annie
-
Hey Annie!
No I have not seen this before! What is the source?? And what do you think "Location 2" means?
There were 2 other Morans (that'I've found, anyway) in Leadville who were Miners --- Martin b. 1850-ish and James (I think) b, 1870-ish living in a Miner's boarding house. Both from Ireland. Have made no connection yet to our Daniel & Martin duo. Will go back a double check details.
So maybe Daniel was taking @ stab at Mining before having the family to support and went into Tailoring?? Odd transition isn't it?? I know for a fact that in KCMO in 1910 he was a Tailor/Merchant. The whole family is there then so there is no mistake in IDing him 'cause I know all the children's names from my Grandmother.
The more you know -- the more there is to know!!!
THANKS!
-
Hi Kathy
Leadville was a hot town in those days - people were becoming millioners over night - silver and gold - seems to me they were following the money trail - look were they went - they were looking to get rich quick - the Daniel listing came from the Leadville directory (you know where - sorry I forgot to note the year but I'll go back to it in a bit OK ) did you check out the route they took ?
hope you have another breakthrough today................ be happy!!
Annie
-
Maybe he got a strike and used the money to set up the business.
I've checked out the Overland, the Santa Fe and the Oregon Trails.
Ruts from the Overland ran literally through our backyard in eastern Johnson Co. Kansas.
Overland and Oregon overlap going north thru Nebraska. Santa Fe takes a southerly direction after eastern KS. Seems they followed water so that's why the Nebraska route -- also in the very early days -- the Pawnee and other hostile tribes ruled in western KS.
By 1880's, Railroad system very developed -- so Anna and Annie the wives could have gone in relative comfort.
In 1900 when Daniel/Anna reversed the journey, if they had money -- could well have gone by train with all those children!
I think Daniel was an "adventurer" Pretty sure I found him in Mass. working in shoe factory in 1880 --- think he wasn't cut out for this and went West to get rich. Think Martin may have followed him but Martin had a solid trade to put to use -- building!!
The 1890 Census would answer SO many question's wouldn't it!!!
-
I know - I wish we had 1890 - but I told you the other day I was thrilled to suddenly recognize the City Directories...!!
I have a question for you - if you were looking for an architect in the US (no specific place...) between 1870-1900 where would you look? I've been in all the directories - is there a specialized occupation directory?
Annie
-
Now the governing professional association is the A.I.A.
Association of International Architects. Located in Washington DC, I think.
Don't know when founded. They have a website. Will check it out for you a little later and get back to you.
-
Annie, had it a little bit wrong---
American Institute of Architects A.I.A
Founded in 1857
www.aia.org
On Website, they have HISTORY section
and ARCHIVE/Archivists which you can email for research
nhadley@aia.org --- isn't that interesting!
-
I know you've been everywhere - but look into this - when you're not dancing around the computer !!!!!!!!!!
http://www.colorado.gov/dpa/doit/archives/index.html
http://www.denvergov.org/AboutDenver/history_narrative.asp
Annie :P :P
-
THANK YOU -- just saved link to my Favorites......ljust what I've been looking for and didn't look familiar.
Just spent 2 hours on the phone with my "cousin" 2 or 3 time removed -- something like that! AMAZING!! She's been researching for 10 years -- I'm the 1st one she found doing the same or a blood relative. What is also amazing is how close I was after just a few months of digging.....I almost had the 1800 in Kansas and UK NAILED for the Kings --- had all the names just not in the right places!!! And another theory or 2 given merit AND she has one of the same holes that I do -- very curious???
Now I have Kings in the UK verfied back to 1780's -1790's in Steeple Claydon including a marriage to a Varney. Annnnd, as far as we know, only my ggrandfather and his brother are the only ones who came to US. So gotta be alot of Kings offspring
in Buck and surrounding environs!
Wish I could make a living doing this!
k
-
Guess what?? there's 2 Daniel Morans in the listing for the Penitentiary and guess what else ? you can buy the mug shots for $15 a piece...................!!!
Stripes and all... ??? ??? :P
How cool is that?????
Annie
-
you mean in the pen circa 1890 or something? Think I came across a census look up of prisoners --
hopefully that's not the reason why I can't find Daniel in 1900!!!
Who's making money off the mug shot?
Why can't I think of these things?
-
Kathy
you must be a MORAN looking to make a stake............. 8) 8) but check it out on the Colorado archives - I could go pick it up !!!!!!
Annie :P
-
You're awake?
you don't know often I've typed "moron" for "Moran"
I did look around there earlier -- so far, the Moran's didn't vote, didn't get divorced, didn't get married, didn't file a will, didn't sue anybody...... but still a few indexes to go.....we do know for sure they did make lots of children.... 9 in the state of CO so there's got to be something somewhere
-
Hi Kathy
If you're having a problem with images I'd better not send them huh? I'll just write stuff out - Is it Friday the 13th today???????
Now I can't remember what I sent.......duh !!!!
I'm going to have a nice cup of coffee and regroup here - then I'll start again on Patrick Fanning OK?
Annie
-
don't sweat it or redo.......it's not worth it ----- just give me the jist of what you found and I'll go look for it.......it's no problem!
I have the same access you do so save your energy to help someone more inept than I!
Don't want to be your other Marr.........
But have that cuppa anyway
-
This is what I started with - and just went from there....
Name: Patrick FANNING
Age: 29
birth year: 1851
Birthplace: IRE
Occupation: Laborer
Relationship Son
in 1880: Auburn, Cayuga, New York
Race: White
Gender: Male
Father's name: Mathew FANNING
Father's birthplace: IRE
Mother's birthplace: IRE
Year: 1880; Census Place: Auburn, Cayuga, New York;
and that's about it!!
Annie
-
:D Hey Girls,
Sorry to butt in here, any chance my Norris's came over on the same boat.
Only they lived in Steeple Claydon as well.
Lesanne. ;D
-
Hi lesanne, In 1863, 31 Norris' travelled -- 11 were English, rest were US, Bulgarian, Irish, Scotish....at lest in the data base.
None were on "Australia"
Names with Origins in England for 1863 were:
Amelia
Charlotte
Ellen
H. (Male)
J.B. (male
Jos (male)
M. (female)
Magt. (female)
Mary
Mary
Norwood
Any of the above fit and need further research??
If you want a differene year checked and specific names/ages, let me know.... I will do it!
Kathy
-
:D Hi Kathy,
Thanks for your offer.
Annie has helped tremendously with my search for
Andrew Albert Norris, b 1852 Islip, Oxon.
His parents were Andrew and Mary Norris ( nee Wall).
In 1861 Andrew was the Railway Policeman at Steeple Clayton Station.
Andrew Albert was 8 years old here and that was the last proper account of him.
I believe it is his uncle William (Andrews Brother) married Sarah (Rendell)in 1846
and went to New Lenox, Illinois. Their first son Albert is 4 years old in 1850 census.
Their is only one Andrew Albert Norris to marry in England, that is in Totnes,
March 1881, but there is no Bride on that reference.
Lesanne. :D Fanx.
-
Hi Lesanne! Think "my people" probably knew "your people" in in Steeple Claydon -- my King family were long time residents there from about 1830's on......
Don't know what I have found that you and Annie have not already covered....nothing "jumps" as far as Andrew Albert in US in Illinois or elsewhere -- but found some tidbits which may provide some clues.....hopefully they are NEW tidbits that will help you progress:
Death Record for Andrew Albert Norris d. @ 47 <18544> Mar Qtr 1901 Reading Berkshire
Albert A. Norris 34 <1854> aboard "Britannic" Liverpool to NYC Arr Jun 1, 1888 Not sure if he is Eng or US origin No other "Norris" on board that sailing
Found parents Andrew & Mary in 1881 @ 36 East Str. St. George Martyr, London with other children but no Andrew
Found Father's Brother William and wife Sarah, dau Elizabeth (no other children at home at this time) in 1880 Marion, Illinois. William is a miner.
1881 Thomas J.T. Norris b. Islip, Oxford with wife Elizabeth and sons Arthur T and James A at 45 Elgin Terrace, Paddington, London Related to Andrew the Father??
1870 US Census Albert Norris 20 b. in England living in Westminster, Worcester, Mass. with Calvin Norris b. in Vermont about 70 years old. No explanation on the relationship.
I checked under "Albert" b. 1852-54 as well as "Andrew" thinking Andrew might his middle name since his father was Andrew too.
Let me know if anything of interest to your inquiry.
Regards,
Kathy
-
Hi Kathy,
You picked up Andrew Albert's death 1901 mar. Pre census, I reckon he must of left a widow to the 1901 census..... ???
There is a marriage.. in Totnes 1881 but no bride .... ??? ... have checked out the other couple..... :(
Andrew Albert born Islip Oxon 1852.
He could be my great great grandaddy or his son ..... ???
William is Andrew's ( b 1822) brother.... Andrew Albert's uncle. ::)
Lesanne ;D Fanx.
-
Hi Kathy,
You picked up Andrew Albert's death 1901 mar. Pre census, I reckon he must of left a widow to the 1901 census..... ???
There is a marriage.. in Totnes 1881 but no bride .... ??? ... have checked out the other couple..... :(
Andrew Albert born Islip Oxon 1852.
He could be my great great grandaddy or his son ..... ???
William is Andrew's ( b 1822) brother.... Andrew Albert's uncle. ::)
Lesanne ;D Fanx.
-
What is happening to this postbox ??? L.
-
Heres a Martin J.....................!!!! ( I was just trying it out!!)
by the way JNO is John....
ID Number 315086
Grooms First Name Martin Jeffrey (33)
Grooms Last Name MORAN
Grooms Residence Mercur
Brides First Name Elizabeth Ellen (27)
Brides Last Name O'DONNELL
Brides Residence Salt Lake City
County of Record Salt Lake Co., Utah
Place of Marriage Salt Lake City
Date of Marriage 12 May 1898
Volume H
Page 413
Comment
:P :P Annie
-
Haven't found anything that would lead me to Utah for either Martin -- but you never know..... and this marriage is 2 years after 2 children born.....so hope not
I thought JNO maybe was John but couldn't figure out why anyone would abbreviate a four letter name to 3??
-
I'm laughing - because I said I was only trying out our new resource - but you never know... could be a cousin or somesuch - you know those Irish :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Annie
-
this Martin in Salt Lake found by Carole?? or what new resource?
-
No - I tried her Western Marriage Registry..... I was trying it out - I looked for Morans and Fannings - and that was the only one with a name I recognised !
Martin J
Annie
-
http://stlgs.org/natsearch.aspx
Daniel Moran Ireland 1884
Martin Moran Ireland 1896 Witness Spaulding
Martin Moran England 1898
Lawrence Fanning Ireland 1858
Patrick Fanning Ireland 1860
James J Spaulding Ireland 1876 Witness Lambert
theres 12 Patrick Morans
8 James Morans
Naturalisation index in St Louis MO
Annie
-
Now that is interesting.
Got to study the dates for the Morans re: wher they were when
Re: Lawrence Fanning--- brothers Matt & Pat natll in Kansas together in 1880 -- have record of the Intent Declarations. BUT NO lawrence which I thought was strange. So he may have gone through the process earlier.
? Does this mean it happened in St. Louis or that's where the records were files/kept. Good find!
Gotta come back it a little later -- gotta do something else right now. THANKS!
-
1920 census
Name: Martin J Moran
Age: 57 years
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Birthplace: England
Race: White
Home in 1920: Denver, Denver, Colorado
Annie
-
1910
Name: Martin J Moran
Age in 1910: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Home in 1910: 11-Wd Denver, Denver, Colorado
Race: White
Year: 1910
Annie
-
Got both of those LONG time ago!! I didn't find Martin/Annie in 1930 -- thinK they may have died but do find the some of the kids.
Been working on that St. Louis Gene site --- where did you find the record showing witnesses??
Found Lawrence Fanning Filing 2nd paper July 22, 1858
Couldn't go further into MO sites so went to FHL -- and not getting anything
-
1930
I have Martin H Moran age 55 in St Louis MO
with Martin Jr. age 14
5264 Wren Ave SLMO
Patrick J Moran age 56 Colo
Catherine age 58
John and Helen
2433 High St Denver
Roy J Moran age 35 in Weld Co Colo
Florence L age 33
Margaret age 12
son? age 7
Do you have these??
Annie
-
sorry - had to go to some chores....
No have not seen those
Names I have for Martin & Annie's children
Mary 1886 IL like mother
Edward 1888 IL Daniel has an Edward too
Florence 1889 CO
Walter J 1891 CO d. 1972 in Denver
Agnes 1897 CO
Grace 1901 CO
The 1st 2 births fit w/ marriage to Annie MULLANE which was in 1885 in Chicago. Found Annie Mullane on a 1883 Ship "Bothnia" . Marriage detail came from IGI -- haven'been able to confirm it in Cook Co. or IL records.
-
Rock Island and Moline Illinoise Directory 1882-1892
Annie Moran
Lives in
Commercial Hotel
Waitress
Rock Island Ill
Annie
-
Look for MULLANE and see if any appears in that Directory -- Is that Directory in Ancestry or did you find elsewhere?
I doubt that she would have continued to work after she married and became Moran.
I looked for Mullanes in Chicago census -- only found one family -- so if she came to America to join family maybe not Mullanes but someone else -- married sister, etc.
There is a Patrick Moran in Chicago in 1880 at about the right age and he is living on his own as a boarder working as a "brush maker".
Have talked on Ancestry board to Kate Moran in Chicago, researching Morans there -- haven't found a link yet.
Oh these boys are frustrating!
Why aren't you working on Jany Price instead of my stuff ??? ??? ???
-
She might have - especially if he was on one of his trips and
my first thought was -
why would they put a waitress
who lives in
at a hotel - in the trade directory ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Think about earlier thoughts -
Annie
been working on my Australia.....................!!
-
Yeah I thought of that -- pays to advertise!
While checking other directories we should see how many Waitresses show up
Bet there were alot of Waitresses in Leadville.
-
Kathy - found this in 1890 Directory -
Mrs. Annie Fanning
rear 1243 11th
Denver
Co
Dress maker
Annie
-
Annie! Now wouldn't that be something to find the Fanning's related to the Morans!!! To my knowledge, they are not and to my knowledge, no Fanning's of my brood in CO in that era! Only much later.....1960's....
But intresting to find Mrs. Fanning, dressmaker, anyway! Wonder if she ever had a Patrick for a husband?? My missing errant Patrick?!
Thanks for finding this!
k
-
Kathy
1880
272 Amed? St Providence Rhode Island
Patrick Fanning Head 40 Brickmason Ireland
Annie Fanning Wife 27 Ireland
Susie A Fanning daug 8
Minnie L Fanning daug 5
John H? Fanning son 3
James E Fanning son ?mth
1860
664? Smithfield Providence RI
John Fanning Head 40 Mason Ireland
Esther Fanning wife 43 "
Daniel Fanning son 23 "
Ann Fanning daug 18 "
Patrick Fanning son 17 "
Thomas Fanning son 12 RI
John Fanning son 8 RI
Have you seen these??
Annie :P :P :P
-
Kathy
Heres a John Moran in MO with kids with family names.................!!
Husband John Moran
Born: 1822
Place: England Or Ireland
Died:
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Buried: 29 Nov 1903
Place: Calvary Cemetery, St Louis, Missouri
Married: 10 Jun 1858
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Wife Elizabeth Crinnion
Born: 1832
Place: England
Buried: 1 Oct 1903
Place: Calvary Cemetery, St Louis, Missouri
Married: 10 Jun 1858
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Father: Richard Crinnion
Mother: Jane Crinnion
1. F Agnes Moran
Born: Abt 1863
Place: Missouri
Died: 1865
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Buried: 12 Apr 1865
Place: Calvary Cemetery, St Louis, Missouri
2. M Charles Moran
Born: Abt 1866
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Died: 1866
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Buried: 12 Apr 1866
Place: Calvary Cemetery, St Louis, Missouri
3. M Joseph Moran
Born: 1869
Place: Missouri
Buried: 29 Mar 1922
Place: Calvary, St Louis, Missouri
4. M James Moran
Born: 1873
Place: Missouri
Buried: 17 Jun 1952
Place: Calvary, St Louis, Missouri
5. M George Moran
Born: 1878
Place: Missouri
Buried: 11 Feb 1929
Place: Calvary Cemetery, St Louis, Missouri
6 F Mary E Moran
Born: 18 Feb 1866
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Buried: 25 Jan 1911
Place: Calvary Cemetery, St Louis, Missouri
7. M Richard Moran
Born: Apr 1861
Place: Mo
Died:
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Buried: 27 Oct 1924
Place: Calvary Cemetery, St Louis, Missouri
8. M William Moran
Born: 3 Aug 1860
Place: St Louis, Missouri
Buried: 8 May 1919
Place: Calvary Cemetery, St Louis, Missouri