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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: njlois on Wednesday 18 January 12 17:27 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help me with this? My mom and her sister were placed in this school around 1930 or so. Apparently their Mom died and their father put them there where they were raised (happily I must say) by nun. Initially my aunt being just a toddler was in a different location. She didn't even remember having a sister, but my Mom insisted that they be reunited. I would love any information about the "school". Thank you. They both say they were from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. I don't know if that's near where the school was, not. Eventually my Mom joined the Land Army during WWII and my aunt the women's RAF. My mom met my Dad, a US army/aircorps man and she came to the US in 1946.
Thanks again!
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njlois,
Not much info to go on !
Do you have the names of your mother's parents, with some idea of dates.
1911 is the latest census we have available to us, but other sources eg Trade Directories might help.
Michael
Newcastle
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Hi Michael,
My mom and aunt were Agnes and Elenor (born 1927).
I believe their mother's name was Agnes .
There must've been some sort of traumatic event because my mother would never, ever speak of her early years so unfortunately we grew up knowing absolutely nothing. The little information we were given was from our aunt, who at the time was just a toddler so her actual memory of events was sparse.
I have a copy of my Mom's information sheet from Pan Am airlines from when she came to the States. She gave the following information:
Place of birth: Newcastle
England Heathfield Broadoak Satin Storm Cottage (However, I do not believe her mother was alive, the rest of the information may have been accurate)
She was a Land Army Worker
Thanks so much.
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On a Births/Marriages?deaths website I can see the birth registration in the September Quarter of 1924 within the Registration District of Tynemouth of an Agnes Fennelly.
Her birth was registered sometime from 1st July to30 Sept 1924. Parents were allowed 42 days grace in which to register the child. ( Agnes could have born as early as end of May)
The website only shows us the bare bones of info... including a column for maiden name of child's mother. This was also Fennelly.
So a woman born a Fennelly could have married a man also called Fennelly, or the child could have been born to a single lady called Fennelly.
In the December Qtr of 1927 an unnamed female child was registered with Castle Ward Registration District. Similarly this child's mother maiden name was Fennelly. She was probably registered before she was baptised.
Tynemouth Reg Dist. lay to the east of Newcastle Reg District. Castle Ward lay to the north and west of Newcastle.
Perhaps more later,
Michael
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This would make sense. Perhaps the source of my Mom's hesitance to give us family info was due to the fact that her parents weren't married. My Mom Agnes's birthday is July 27, 1924, My aunt Eleanor's was December 2, 1927.
This is the most information I've ever received regarding my mother's ancestry! (as bare bones as it is!)
Thank you so much Michael!
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In the December Qtr of 1948 the death of a 41 yr ol Agnes Fennelly was registered with Northumberland South Reg District ( this was a later name for what had been called Tynemouth Reg Dist.)
From the site I am unable to see whether this Agnes was a married or single woman ?
I am unfamiliar with a place called Heathfield, but there is one in the county od East Sussex, near the south coast.
Michael
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We are lucky to have a "free" website to see " the bare bones" of registrations.
We can get extra info ( ie. specific dates of events, address of births etc, father of child's name and occupation, mother's surname and maiden name, who registered the child and their address) but fees are charged for certified copies of the complete entry from the original register
Michael.
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that would be sad indeed, I was born in September 1948.
I also have to pay for info here. I joined Ancestry.com, it gives me access for certain records (census, etc.), but if I want a copy of a birth certificate or a death certificate, I have to send money to the State in which the birth/death occurred to get the information.
I certainly appreciate your help!
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I am not familiar with the St Joseph's School for Girls/orphanage. But I regularly visit Newcastle City Central Library. There I can browse records to see if I can find anything on the establishment.
Watch this space !
Michael
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I will! :)
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1901 census Byker
Hariet Street
Patrick Finly aged 43 born Ireland
Ellen aged 36 born Kent
Frances aged 8 ,born Newcastle,
Elenor aged 7,born Newcastle,
Catherine aged 5,Newcastle
James P aged 1,Newcastle
RG13/4792
possible birth registration for Agnes Finley,O/N/D 1906 Tynemouth
use this as a reference to look up the family in 1911 ,additional children
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Patrick Fennely death registered Tynemouth
A/M/J 1927
birth circa 1862
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watching with interest. If Patrick was the father of Agnes and Eleanor, someone else would've placed them in the "school."
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Going on - or more accurately going back from Gillian's 1901 census info>>>>
Marriage Registration 1890 Newcastle
Patrick Fennelly>< Ellen Crowley
I would guess that this was in a Roman Catholic church ? The civil and/or the church register will give names of the couple's fathers and with a bit of luck mothers as well.
Michael
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If Agnes and Eleanor are the daughters of Patricks daughter Agnes he would have been their grandfather,
if a baptism can be found that would be good ,other than that ,may I suggest you order your mums birth certificate,also do you have her marriage certificate in America,it may have a few more details,did Eleanor also go to America ,
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Good Morning Michael, I don't have my Mom's marriage certificate. Yes, Eleanor came to America too, in 1952. I ordered the birth certificates yesterday - I am excited about finding out information about my Mom. It's sad that she felt so bad about her circumstances that she would never share it with us. I have 3 sisters.
I will try to get the marriage certificate too.
Thanks so much,
Lois
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I have searched around for the children's home and the only one I could find was St Josephs Industrial school for Catholic girls, Carmel Road Darlington Durham ,but it seems it was closed in 1926 and became a poor law school ,but I am sure Ambley may have some information on this school
Also the address given by Agnes that word Satinatorm I think that should be Heathfield Sanatorium Broad Oaks,?
There is a St Josephs care home run by the Little sisters of Mercy ,Westmorland Road Newcastle,I cant find anything that indicates it was originaly a childrens home,
but I am sure someone ,may know a little more than what I am picking up from browsing,
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It says:
Last permanent residence: (Country) England, (State) Heathfield Broad Oak, (City or Town) Satinstorm Cottage. Definitely not Sanatorium.
It is a typed form from the airline. Broadoak is typed as one word, it is probably two. The same with Satinstorm, it really may have been Satin Storm Cottage.
Now that it seems possible that her mother was actually alive at the time, it makes the form more intriguing because:
Nearest relative in country whence came is: (mother) Mrs. Fennelly with the same address as above.
I think my aunt mentioned "Durham" but since St. Joseph's closed in 1926, it couldn't be that.
Thanks so much.
L.
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Also the address given by Agnes that word Satinatorm I think that should be Heathfield Sanatorium Broad Oaks,?
I think the address is actually Satinstown Cottage, Broad Oak, Heathfield, East Sussex.
There is a Satinstown farm, just west of Heathfield. http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=28151674
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Pretty!
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There was a stately home at Heathfield, East Sussex where orphans were evacuated to during the war. Could it be that she was evacuated from a St Joseph's home to Heathfield?
Good luck,
J.T.A.
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L,
The info below from Electoral Registers on the Fennelleys might give clues about the " breakup" of family ?
(Source: Newcastle Central Library. Electoral Registers- book form)
Those eligible to vote in Parliamentary Elections are listed.
Walker Ward.
1914/1915
20 East Terrace, Patrick Finley, Henry Smith
22 " " Walter McEldon
1920
20 East Terrace,
Patrick Finley, Frank Finley, Martin Fitzpatrick, Henry Smith, Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terrace,
Walter McEldon
1923
20 East Terr,
Patrick Finley, James Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1925
20 East Terr
Patrick, James, Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terr
Walter and Alice McEldon
1927
20 East Terr,
Patrick, James and Frank Finley, Henry , Mary Ann and George Smith.
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1928/29
20 East Terr,
James and Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith ( no more Patrick)
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1929/30
20 East Terr
James and Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith, Ellen Lees, Annie Parkinson
22 East Terr
Walter and Alice McEldon
( by now, Alice nee Fennelly/Finley , aged c38, and Walter would have had 8 children)
1930/31. No Finley or McEldon in East Terrace.
As these registers are in Ward order, then Street alpha order. Finding the family is needle in haystack stuff !
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Browsing in Newcastle area Trade Directories, in late 1920s, reveals only
" St Joseph's home for Aged and Infirm" , under the "Care of the Little Sisters of the Poor", Georges Rd, Newcastle.
Michael
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wonder where they went! Interesting about "The Little Sisters of the Poor." My Mom would go out of her way to donate to them when they visited our church...
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So Michael Walter Mc Eldon to Alice Fennely Tynmouth registration district
Eileen December 1914 Tynemouth
Walter J June 1917
Kathleen 1919 Tynemouth
Mabel G mother Finley,Tynemouth Decmber 1922
John F mother Finley,Tynemouth,June 1925
Maria R June 1927 Tynemouth
George 1929 Tynemouth
for Joseph A mother Fennely 1932 Tynemouth,
mother Fennely
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L.
The birth certs from 1924 and 1927 will at least where the two girls were born !
G,
Sep/1912 Elizabeth A McEldon ( Finley)
Dec/14 Eleen M " ( Fennelly)
jun/17 Walter J " (Fennelly)
Dec/19 Kathleen
Dec 1922 Mabel G
Jun/1925
Jun/27 Marie R
Dec/29 George
Jun/32 Joseph A
Lewis W
( dashing to watch football highlights on telly- with can of cider )
M
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Well I hope its a good game and I had ammended my posting while you were getting the can out of the fridge,
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Walter McEldon born circa 1874 death registered March 1954 aged 79,Northumberland South
Alice McEldon born circa 1890 death registered 1956 aged 66,
Walter McEldon,
discharged due to illness 12.5.1916,enlisted 1893
Sergeant Service corps,Northumberland division
aged 41
iron shifter by trade,
brother John living New Hartley near Blyth
Address 22 East Terrace Low Walker Newcastle Upon Tyne
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1901 census,Harriet Street , Byker,RG13/4792
Patrick Finley aged 43 born Ireland
Ellen wife aged 36 born Kent,
Alice aged 10 born Newcastle,
Frances aged 8,son born Newcastle,
Elenor aged 7
Catherine aged 5
James P aged 1
later additions to this family are
Mary 1903 Newcastle , Agnes 1906 Tynemouth, and Anastasia June 1910 Tynemouth
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Thanks Radcliff and Michael - we'll be watching football tomorrow - probably a different kind of football, and we'll probably have a beer (or two). ;)
What team are you (or did you) watch?
Lois
PS: re Anastasia - there was an Anastasia on my father's side of the family. She and her husband one of the first to come the the US (from Germany). She became known as Anna. Coincidences are amazing!
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Blackpool in our house ,not that I take much notice ,
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Sunderland for me.
But I did not get can out of the fridge ! I never put my drinks in the fridge.
I really prefer my booze to be cool, not cold.(lol)
M
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Thanks Radcliff and Michael - we'll be watching football tomorrow - probably a different kind of football, and we'll probably have a beer (or two). ;)
What team are you (or did you) watch?
Lois
PS: re Anastasia - there was an Anastasia on my father's side of the family. She and her husband one of the first to come the the US (from Germany). She became known as Anna. Coincidences are amazing!
Anastasia was a popular name in Kilkenny where I believe the Fennelly family originated from. A lot of Irish immigrants who first settled in the Walker district were from Kilkenny.
J.T.A.
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The following childhood account might give a clue to the address you are seeking.
"September 1st 1939 Travelled with my mother to stay with my maternal grandparents at Broad Oak, Heathfield, Sussex. This was considered a safer area than Ilford. (Nationally, in the first few days of September more than 1.5 million schoolchildren and mothers with children under school age were evacuated from the big cities to escape the expected intensive bombing campaigns,)"
Also this:
"With the outbreak of the second world war in 1939 Sussex was declared a safe area and many people were evacuated to Heathfield and Waldron from London".
Perhaps they had moved south and were later evacuated.
Good luck,
J.T.A.
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Satinstown Cottage was/is on the Heathfield Park Estate.
Folder icon Heathfield Park Estate AMS5712/17/4 14 April 1942
These documents are held at East Sussex Record Office
Contents:
Including Heathfield Park, The Tower Nursery, The Old Half Moon, accommodation land, Satinstown Farm, Satinstown Cottage, nos 1-2 Bullseye Cottages, Little Tottingworth and farmbuildings, including oasthouse with 2 cottages, 1-4 Alley Cottages, 1-4 Portland Square, Museum Cottage, The Nursery (land), Crown Meadow, small site adjoining Cade Street Institute, Jasmine Cottage, The Corner House, Gate Cottage in Cade Street, Cade Street Cottage, The Firs in Cade Street, Laurel Cottage, a cattle lodge, Spring Lodge, Kingsley Hill House in Warbleton, Broomham Farm in Chiddingly, Nos 132 - 132a High Street, Uckfield, Nos 58 to 60 Devonshire Road in Bexhill-on-Sea, and nos 1-3 Devonshire Mansions. Includes photographs and 2 maps
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St Anthony's of Padua, RC church in Walker.
Baptism
Born 25 Sept 1906, Bapt 14 Oct 1906, East Terrace.
Agnes Fennelly, daughter of Patrick and Helena Fennelly, nee Crowley.
Godmother Jane (priest wrote Joanna) Mc Veigh
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Baptism
Born 27 Feb 1910, Bapt 20 Mar 1910. East Terrace.
Anastasia Fennelly, daughter of Patrick and Elenor (priest wrote Elenae) Fennelly, nee Crowley.
Godparents. William Drew, Maria O'Hare.
Annotations. Confirmed 22 or 23rd Dec 1925 ( couldn't read name of church)
Married Benjamin Powell 6 Feb 1935, St Peter's, Wollwich, London
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Baptism
Born 11 Oct 1927, Bapt 23 Oct 1927. Rochester Dwellings
James Alan Fennelly, son of James and Ethel Fennelly, nee Pilson.
Godmother. Isabella Rippon Kennedy.
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I could not see any baptisms in this church for Agnes c1924 or Eleanor c1927.
As with quite a few RC churches there was a handy surname index in alpha order.
There were several Fennelly bapts in 1860-1870 period ( but me short of time today ! )
Source of above info. Film of original Baptism Register, Tyne & Wear Archives.
Michael
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Amazing information Michael - thanks so much!
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Well done Michael!
So Anastasia married Woolwich 1935 and there was a St Joseph's Convent, Abbey Wood, Woolwich Road at the time. See link below a photo of it in 1910 with nuns and school girls in the grounds. The building later became a girls grammar school of the same name.
Might be just a coincidence but I see a lot of pointers.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andytakersdad/1346662582/
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To my dismay, today I had an email from the archives from which I ordered the birth certificate of my mother and her sister - they refunded the money for my aunt (her sister). Said there were no records - I responded with the info from BMDSearch. But my Mom's is the more important, so we shall see!
I'll be looking to see what I can find about St. Joseph's.
Thanks Mr. Arthur.
Lois
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Good shot, Terry !. Nuns in St Joseph's, Woolwich !
Anastasia's mother was born in Folkestone, Kent.
Woolwich, although absorbed into London "County" in 1889,
was traditionally within Kent, although some distance away.
An Anastasia Fennelly was on Woolwich's electoral roll 1932.
An Anastasia Powell was on Deptford, Lewisham's ER fron 1936
right thru to 1959.
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A Joseph Fennelly from Newcastle, died in WW1. He was
in the 24th Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers ( Also known
as the 1st Battalion of the Tyneside Irish)
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Terry, when I was browsing thu the St Anthony's baptisms,
I encountered a family in Walker, called Kilkenny. So can I assume
they too were from Kilkenny ?
Michael
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Oddly enough Michael, the origin of the name Kilkenny has nothing with the city and county of the same name but as it had become so widespread it is possible the Kilkennys you noted were from there but the name originated from North Connaught.
I note it is recorded Heathfield, East Sussex did not prove to be safe for the evacuees after all due to it's close proximity to the coast and as a result Heathfield Park Estate was actuality taken over by the army, so that is another angle to consider.
T.
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I found a lot of information on Anastasia (who later became known as Ann). I'm waiting for my Mom's birth certificate. I wish I could fill in the "missing years" - the years when my mom and my aunt were placed in care. It's frustrating not to be able to locate the "school." Does anyone know if orphanages or homes where the poor were placed were called "schools"? My only clue is that it was a Catholic school (or home). I don't even know for sure if it was St. Joseph's. My aunt was so young, and she was moved from her original location to that where my Mom was.
The one neat thing was I found a studio photograph of Ann! I thought, wow, this might be my grandmother's sister!
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njlois,
Just a wee snippet !
The Fennelly daughter ( your great aunt) who was baptised and birth-registered as Anastasia, who you say became known as Ann, was incorrectly transcribed from the 1911 census ( by UK National Archives web site and othe sites) as Martha.
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Was your mother married in England or USA. And if England where and when ?
Michael
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I found a lot of information on Anastasia (who later became known as Ann). I'm waiting for my Mom's birth certificate. I wish I could fill in the "missing years" - the years when my mom and my aunt were placed in care. It's frustrating not to be able to locate the "school." Does anyone know if orphanages or homes where the poor were placed were called "schools"? My only clue is that it was a Catholic school (or home). I don't even know for sure if it was St. Joseph's. My aunt was so young, and she was moved from her original location to that where my Mom was.
The one neat thing was I found a studio photograph of Ann! I thought, wow, this might be my grandmother's sister!
Does the studio photo give a location?
T.
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lois,
If you can access the Public member trees at ancestry, you will see Anastacia Powell nee Fennelly is on a member's family tree who is probably related to you as it includes a picture of her daughter Eileen M A Powell who was born Northumberland 1940 and died Croydon Surrey 1982. A son is also on the same picture who might be still alive who was born Woolwich 1937. You can contact the owner of the tree through ancestry once you can prove this Anastacia was your grandmother's sister making these two children your mother's first cousins.
Good luck,
T.
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Michael, my Mom and Dad were married in New Jersey. I recently requested a copy of their marriage certificate from New Jersey.
(and I just removed Martha from my tree)
Mr. Arthur,
The studio photo of Ann and Ben Powell was attached to the trees of two different people.
I contacted one and she confirmed that she was in fact Anastasia! She was her mother's brother's wife - they key word being "was".
The other person said she had never heard of Anastasia Fennelly.
I will look for the photo of Eileen and her brother.
Thanks - have a good day!
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Date of photo and name and address of studio
2nd February 1935 , Steven's Studios 20 Nelson Street Woolwich London
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Snap! same photo with that date and studio address of Ann and Ben Powell on two family trees at ancestry. Picture taken four days before Anastacia Fennelly married Benjamin Powell at St Peter's Woolwich. There is another photo which looks to be on their wedding day of "uncle Ben and Richard (Dick) Powell" taken 1935 which looks as if Dick was Ben's brother and best man.
Ann and Ben's son appears to be still alive, he would have been aged 9 when your mother went to America and 15 when your aunt went, so may have some anecdotal information or clues you are looking for.
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Sorry , I just noticed you had posted two messages. I only replied to last one.
T.
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The trees actually have the wrong information regarding Anastasia who died Greenwich, Greater London 1973 aged 63 with the exact date of birth as Michael found for you. They have chosen another Ann Powell who died 1983 aged 80 from the GRO death indexes and decided that must be her without bothering to verify it. So, are you saying your mother's living cousin, son of Anastacia knows nothing about his mother? They must know who he is as he is named on the photo with Eileen taken 1947, of course I can't name him because of the living person rule.
T.
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No, the photo was attached to Anastasia on two other family trees. The first person I contacted said she had never heard the name before. I asked the second person if Ann and Anastasia were the same person, he said yes. But neither of them are Ann's son. As he is still living, contacting him will be more difficult - but I'm still trying! After the first person said she had never heard of Anastasia, my only question to person #2 was if they were one and the same. I have followed up with a question as to his relationship - I'll be sure to let you know!
L.
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Yes, I've noticed the family tree owners are on the Powell side of the family who are cousins of Eileen and her brother who in turn are your mother's cousins on the Fennelly side but someone must have a close association as they know the circumstances of Eileen's death in 1983 and that her husband and children are still alive. Eileen's married name was Smallwood, so if they have lost touch with Eileen's brother, her husband or children may know where he is as a brother-in-law and uncle. Though they will have no interest in your Fennelly ancestry, they are blood relations of all of Anastacia's descendants because she married a Powell.
Good luck,
T.
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I received info from "Action for Children" which I believe is the organization which might hold the key to finding out where my Mom and my aunt were placed. Their guidelines to releasing information are very strict. Records are not released to individuals (i.e., me), but only to a social worker or some other kind of counselor. And they will only release information if the person is deceased. My mother's background is apparently very painful for her. She has never and will never tell us anything. She is still alive, but I cannot ask her questions. I'm now 62 years old, and she has never told me anything. It is frustrating that I will have to wait until my Mom passes away to get this info.
OK, I was just venting...
On the good side! I was able to contact someone with whom I share a relationship. Eileen O'Neil Crowley (if everything turn out the way the way I'm thinking) who would be the 2x great grandmother of both of us! She's younger than I am so she doesn't know anything about the Fennellys, but it was nice to touch base with someone distantly related to me!
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L,
The info below from Electoral Registers on the Fennelleys might give clues about the " breakup" of family ?
(Source: Newcastle Central Library. Electoral Registers- book form)
Those eligible to vote in Parliamentary Elections are listed.
Walker Ward.
1914/1915
20 East Terrace, Patrick Finley, Henry Smith
22 " " Walter McEldon
1920
20 East Terrace,
Patrick Finley, Frank Finley, Martin Fitzpatrick, Henry Smith, Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terrace,
Walter McEldon
1923
20 East Terr,
Patrick Finley, James Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1925
20 East Terr
Patrick, James, Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terr
Walter and Alice McEldon
1927
20 East Terr,
Patrick, James and Frank Finley, Henry , Mary Ann and George Smith.
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1928/29
20 East Terr,
James and Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith ( no more Patrick)
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1929/30
20 East Terr
James and Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith, Ellen Lees, Annie Parkinson
22 East Terr
Walter and Alice McEldon
( by now, Alice nee Fennelly/Finley , aged c38, and Walter would have had 8 children)
1930/31. No Finley or McEldon in East Terrace.
As these registers are in Ward order, then Street alpha order. Finding the family is needle in haystack stuff !
-------------------------------------------------
Browsing in Newcastle area Trade Directories, in late 1920s, reveals only
" St Joseph's home for Aged and Infirm" , under the "Care of the Little Sisters of the Poor", Georges Rd, Newcastle.
Michael
This address, 20 East Terrace, is given on my mother's birth certificate under Column 5 - Name, surname and maiden surname of mother" So in 1924 she must have been living with her sister Alice. Is/was East Terrace a street in Newcastle-upon-Tyne?
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At the relevant time East Terrace was within the community of Walker, not within the city of Newcastle, but very close to it's boundary line.
Walker lay within the Parish of Longbenton, which for various purposes ( Civil BMD Registrations, Workhouse admin, etc) lay within the jurisdiction of Tynemouth.
Today Walker, and Longbenton are within the city of Newcastle.
By the way who registered your mother's birth ?
It is looking like that your mother's mother was only at " 50 Preston Road" to have your mother ?
Michael
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The birth certificate says that Agnes registered the birth.
Yes, maybe she was only there to give birth - that would be good!
Agnes is not on the electoral registers as having lived at 20 East Terrace, although that address is listed on the birth certificate as her address. Perhaps she didn't register to vote.
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njlois,
Women got the right to vote in 1918- as long as they were over 30 yrs of age, and were a householde, or married to a householder, or had a university degree.
In 1928 all women, aged 21 and over got the right to vote.
So Agnes was not eligible to vote in 1924- not old enough ( born 1906 ? )
When universal came about in 1928 Agnes would have been 23/24, old enough to get the vote, but not registered for East Terrace.
The Fennellys and McEldons were in East Terrace ( well were at least registered/eligible for the year 1929 (October) to 1930 (April) )
None of the families members are registered as at East Terrace from 1930/31.
But they ( or at least some of them) will have been registered to vote from another address, whatever that was.... Eleanor's birth cert details will at least provide us with another address or two.
Michael
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My mother's sister died in November, my cousins had this photo displayed at the memorial. I had never seen it before. It is dated 1935, obviously a school photo. Does it look familiar to anyone? Should I post it on a different thread? Oh, my aunt is the tall blond on the left. She would have been 7 in 1935. She looks older than 7 to me.
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At the relevant time East Terrace was within the community of Walker, not within the city of Newcastle, but very close to it's boundary line.
Walker lay within the Parish of Longbenton, which for various purposes ( Civil BMD Registrations, Workhouse admin, etc) lay within the jurisdiction of Tynemouth.
Today Walker, and Longbenton are within the city of Newcastle.
By the way who registered your mother's birth ?
It is looking like that your mother's mother was only at " 50 Preston Road" to have your mother ?
Michael
Where does 50 Preston Road come into it, L says 20 East Terrace on birth certificate?
T.
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On my mother's birth certificate, Column 1 (When and where born): Twenty-seventh July 1924, 50 Preston Road, NB and under Column 7: A. Fennelly, Mother, 50 Preston Road
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Lois, What was date of registration ?
So East Terrace was not mentioned on the certificate ?
Hold fire on my earlier suggestion that Agnes was not a Tynemouth
Workhouse inmate.
Michael
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Yes, it is, it's under Column 5 (Name, surname and maiden surname of mother). Under that column it says:
"Agnes *, of 20 East Terrace, Walker, Newcastle-upon-Tyne nb of no occupation"
Column 1: When and where born: "twenty-seventh July 1924, 50 Preston Rd, nb"
Column 2: Name, if any (Agnes)
Column 3: Sex (girl)
Column 4: (blank)
5 (as above)
Column 6: Occupation of father (blank)
Column 7: Signature, description and residence of informant:
"A. * Mother 50 Preston Road"
Column 8: When registered: Thirtieth July 1924
Column 9: Signature of registrar: _____ Drew
Column 10: Name entered after registration (none)
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50 Preston Road was North Shields Workhouse but Agnes was obviously not an inmate so she may have paid for the hospital treatment. Most woman at that time had their babies at home so there may have been complications and the workhouse hospital was the cheapest place to go. The NHS was based on the workhouse system I believe.
T.
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Just realised you had 50 Preston Road under a separate subject. I was wondering where it came from.
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If you go into Newcastle archives Mr Arthur,you will be able to access up to a certain date the maternity registers for Tynemouth workhouse,/North Shields,or 50 Preston Road,many many single mothers had their children there,they did not pay for the treatment ,they were not all inmates of the workhouse,but received medical intervention and a warm clean place to give birth,as Miss Fennaly , I strongly suspect she was at the time living in the adjacent building,but untill someone can actualy check the records in person,we have to wait and see if Lois has any joy from her request to the archives,
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But she gives her home address on the birth certificate where her parents and siblings were living. I have seen it ruled that other family members had the means to pay the workhouse.
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watching with interest ... and will be looking forward to receiving mail from the archives.
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I had a response from the Diocesan Archivist regarding the photo of my aunt. He has passed it on to someone at St. Cuthbert's. He thinks it might be St. Vincent's in Newcastle.
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My aunt mentioned St. Joseph's School for Girls, my mother's info mentioned Broadoak, today I found this. Is it a coincidence? Might this be where my mom and my aunt went to school?
http://www.st-josephs.reading.sch.uk/about_us_history/
When my mother came to the US, her home address was listed as Satinstorm Cottage, Broadoak, Heathfield.
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Lois,
There was /is a De la Salle community in Newcastle, ( specifically Walker).
Also in South Shields ( formerly in County Durham)
Michael
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L,
The info below from Electoral Registers on the Fennelleys might give clues about the " breakup" of family ?
(Source: Newcastle Central Library. Electoral Registers- book form)
Those eligible to vote in Parliamentary Elections are listed.
Walker Ward.
1914/1915
20 East Terrace, Patrick Finley, Henry Smith
22 " " Walter McEldon
1920
20 East Terrace,
Patrick Finley, Frank Finley, Martin Fitzpatrick, Henry Smith, Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terrace,
Walter McEldon
1923
20 East Terr,
Patrick Finley, James Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1925
20 East Terr
Patrick, James, Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith
22 East Terr
Walter and Alice McEldon
1927
20 East Terr,
Patrick, James and Frank Finley, Henry , Mary Ann and George Smith.
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1928/29
20 East Terr,
James and Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith ( no more Patrick)
22 East Terr,
Walter and Alice McEldon
1929/30
20 East Terr
James and Frank Finley, Henry and Mary Ann Smith, Ellen Lees, Annie Parkinson
22 East Terr
Walter and Alice McEldon
( by now, Alice nee Fennelly/Finley , aged c38, and Walter would have had 8 children)
1930/31. No Finley or McEldon in East Terrace.
As these registers are in Ward order, then Street alpha order. Finding the family is needle in haystack stuff !
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Browsing in Newcastle area Trade Directories, in late 1920s, reveals only
" St Joseph's home for Aged and Infirm" , under the "Care of the Little Sisters of the Poor", Georges Rd, Newcastle.
Michael
I wonder who Henry and Mary Ann Smith are. I though Mary married Michael Carr, but the date was 1946 which would have made her pretty old at the time of the marriage. Perhaps I'm wrong about Michael Carr. Time to search some more.
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They were tenements therefore the Fennellys and Smiths lived in different homes but with the same address.
J.T.A.
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Oh thanks, that was little confusing. ;)
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I have searched around for the children's home and the only one I could find was St Josephs Industrial school for Catholic girls, Carmel Road Darlington Durham ,but it seems it was closed in 1926 and became a poor law school ,but I am sure Ambley may have some information on this school
I shared info with my sisters yesterday, we think this may be the school. We think that perhaps the sisters went to school, but lived in a convent.
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I received information from St. Cuthbert's today. My aunt was in St. Mary's Tudhoe from the age of about 3 until she was about 9. In 1936 she moved from St. Mary's Tudhoe and was reunited with her sister who had been placed in St. Joseph's Darlington. It wasn't a lot of information, but did answer some of the questions I had. Her sister indicate she had been placed there by "Tynemouth ?" The word was illegible. It must have been some kind of official, but I don't know what. My aunt was baptised at St. Cuthbert's North Shields. It indicated that she had arrived at St. Mary's in 1930 and that her nearest living relative was her mother Agnes Finelly City M. Hospital (then some undecipherable initials and then I think it says illeg.)
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At last you have the information you require,
St Cuthberts or its modern replacement is in Albion Street North Street,I have passed it many times,
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Perhaps City M Hospital meant the City Maternity Hospital rather than say the Workhouse Hospital as it might be referring to her place of birth and she was illegitimate.
The link below has a contact number and there is a lot of interest regarding former inmates who were not necessary orphans.
http://www.picturespennymoor.co.uk/orphanage.html
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My aunt had no bad things to say about her early days - just one day someone came and said you're going to live with your sister. She was so young when she went to St. Mary's, she didn't know she had a sister. Unlike my mother, who never forgot and always wanted her sister back. They were very close forever (:
Thank you for the picture, the link to connect with others doesn't work any longer. It would be interesting to see if there are others still living who might remember her, but that was a long long time ago. A different time entirely.
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hello im new to this, my husbands mother was sent to live at st josephs along with sisters and brothers that she lost touch with, the nuns seem to have either changed or altered the families surnames and im not sure why, my husbands mother ..................... surnames could be waugh and glenholmes anyone have any information would love to hear from you x
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Jane Glenholmes married
Northumberland S ,December 1936
spouse Hughie Waugh
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Three births to look at
Hexham,September 1932,
September 1934 Tynemouth
June 1936,Tynemouth
Moderator Comment: Edited. Please do not give details of people who may be living
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Hi yvonney68 and welcome
We do not allow details of living people to be posted but if you make a couple more posts by clicking the reply button then if people can help you they can do so by personal message which is private. www.freebmd.org.uk would be a good site for you to look at as it may show the births for the names you mentioned.
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Hello,
My mum was in St Joseph's Home for RC Girls, Darlington and we have been looking into the background.
It would seem that girls were sent to St Joseph's instead of the school/home in Newcastle (Gosforth) - don't know if this was because it closed down or had no more places. Before using St Joseph's, girls also used to be sent to St Mary's in Tudhoe until it was used for boys.
We have created a basic website which contains the little information we have: www.stjosephshomedarlington.jimdo.com
Best regards.
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The sisters who ran St Joseph's finally left Darlington at the beginning of this year. There were only a few sisters left. Latterly they worked in parishes and the local RC school but the orphanage was mentioned as something they had done in the past.
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an old posting but I would like to know if there is a safe link as opposed to the one posted by Carol66
re st josephs Darlington
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I was in St Joseph's from 1955 to 1966 along with my eldest sister. I would love to hear from anyone who was in the home during these years.
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Hi myself and five older sisters were also at st Joseph's at this time ,my brother at the boys orphanage over the road our surname smiles