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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: tedscout on Thursday 19 January 12 08:20 GMT (UK)

Title: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: tedscout on Thursday 19 January 12 08:20 GMT (UK)
This is purely for interest sake.

One of my favorite parts of a trip back to England 2 1/2 years ago (from Australia) was visiting the caves in Nottingham.

Since then I have followed the survey of the caves and read all about the history of them.

This has led me to believe the people who lived in them must have been on the census, and I wonder if any of you wonderful Nottingham experts can tell me where I can find if this is true.

Cheers From Ted - the Aussie
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: larkspur on Thursday 19 January 12 13:19 GMT (UK)
My husbands great great grandparents lived in The Hermitage, Sneinton.They are on the census under this address.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 19 January 12 13:41 GMT (UK)
Ted, many many many thanks for this post! I thought I knew a reasonable amount about the UK but am amazed and ashamed that I have never heard of these caves. I've just been googling and am hooked. I've just got to go and see them!  ;D
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: weste on Thursday 19 January 12 13:44 GMT (UK)
I went to the caves a couple of years ago and took quite a few photos.  I may go on one of the frightnights in the salutation inn as there's caves under there. I also been in the galleries of justice on a frightnight. I thought the caves was brill witheir history and the war time uses.  The weird thing was the entrance via the shopping centre. My brother did some work in the shopping centre .  He kicked himself when he realised he had n't noticed that he could have visited whilst he was there! We also went to the castle to have a look round. This one city break i enjoyed.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: weste on Thursday 19 January 12 13:50 GMT (UK)
Ruskie do go!  I went to nottingham previously but did n't get much out of. We went ater the robin hood series and decided to go to nottingham as there was a frightnight and also that  we could visit the castle, i did n't know about the caves until i got there.  It was interesting about the history of leather as i come from a town which had a strong leather industry, mom used to do outwork.  They had an interesting use for one of our body wastes!
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: copperbeech5 on Friday 20 January 12 22:45 GMT (UK)
Yes, great post Ted, have you seen this site?

http://nottinghamcavessurvey.org.uk/

Best wishes,
Copperbeech5
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: GFHWP on Saturday 21 January 12 21:08 GMT (UK)
The records of the Borough of Nottingham contain several references to properties rented out to 'cave dwellers'
 The following is an extract from the 1809 records, showing tennant, property and annual rent in part of the Chambers Estate. (Note 5s =five shillings -pre decimal coinage)

William Bradley   A rock hole in York St      5s
Joseph Hallam   A house in the rock in York St   5s
Thomas Porter   A rock hole in York St      5s
Joseph Rawson   A rock hole in York St      5s
John Abbot &
Michael McLoghland   A rock hole on the Long Stairs    8s
Thomas Wood   A rock hole on Gilliflower Hill,
         he agreeing to pay all arrears of rent
         now due from the time of his first
         occupation thereof              £1
William Oakland   A rock hole in St Michaels Row   5s
Robert Hutchinson   A rock hole in Mansfield Road   15s

Perhaps it was a better class of hole in Mansfield Road 8)
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: jaywit on Saturday 21 January 12 21:39 GMT (UK)
'Perhaps it was a better class of hole in Mansfield Road' 

Well caves were lived in in Mansfield as well, they were known as the Rock Houses, and what's left of them is still there, the road is called...... Rock Hill.

If you google 'Rock Houses Mansfield' you will see images of them, and I go past  them every time I go into town.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: tedscout on Saturday 21 January 12 23:43 GMT (UK)
Wow this is fascinating thank you. GFHWP. I will have to google and find out where they are.

Fancy having to live in a "rock hole"  :-[
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: annmck on Sunday 22 January 12 02:18 GMT (UK)

Rock Hole....LOOGSHURY!!!...wun i wer a lass we dreeeeemed of livin' in a rock 'ole.....

 ;D
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: tedscout on Sunday 22 January 12 03:00 GMT (UK)
Don't get me started annmck. I'm a Monty Python tragic from a long line of Monty Python tragics  ;D
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: weste on Sunday 22 January 12 11:11 GMT (UK)
I did n't vote for 'em.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: Ruskie on Monday 23 January 12 00:03 GMT (UK)
The Nottingham caves 'tour' gets a slamming on Trip Advisor.  :-\

Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: Sherwood on Friday 24 August 12 22:52 BST (UK)
In the mid-late 1970s I was involved with a group called 'Nottingham Historical Arts Society' that concerned itself with 'digging the caves' for the sake of archaeological interest and preservation.  By 'digging' I mean emptying the caves of the soil and other waste with which they were filled.

The unique thing about Nottingham caves is that they were man-made, carved into the Bunter sandstone on which most of the city stands.  They were often below public houses (used as store rooms for the ale due to constant temperature).  Other were used as tanneries.  There are many connected in 'complexes'.

The complex under the Broad Marsh shopping centre (near Middle Hill) was discovered during excavations to build the centre, and the developer was persuaded to take measures to avoid total destruction (they would have just filled them with concrete to ensure good foundations).  For several years the access was via an external door near to where the new Contemporary Arts Centre is.  That was until someone had the idea of commercialising them into a visitor attraction.

Sherwood.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: Sherwood on Friday 24 August 12 23:02 BST (UK)
There is another complex under Peel Street, one under Cliff Road and a further one under Bridlesmith Gate.  I went 'digging' at Bridlesmith Gate and Cliff Road.

There were often wells and cesspits.  At one site there was a well right next to a cesspit.  We figured that 'stuff' must have seeped from the cesspit into the well.

Under Bridlesmith Gate I remember excavating lots of earth and broken Victorian china and clay pipes.  At the bottom  of a cesspit were the bones of a dog.  Did it fall in or was it simply dumped after dying?  Who knows!  The 'soil' we took out of the cesspit was black loamy compost.

It got quite hot and humid working down there so my mate rigged up piped fresh air (12 volt car blower motors and pipe made from strips of black bin liners.  Worked a treat!  He also sorted out proper lighting because we had been working like miners with battery lamps on out safety helmets.

Sherwood.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 24 August 12 23:27 BST (UK)
Fascinating stories Sherwood - thanks for telling us about your digs.  :)
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: copperbeech5 on Friday 24 August 12 23:30 BST (UK)
Hi Sherwood,

So, would you say that the caves are worth a visit? 

I feel slightly apprehensive in that I am a bit claustrophobic, but feel quite fascinated by the thought of them, so what would you say - are they a must??

Thanks,
Copperbeech5
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 24 August 12 23:41 BST (UK)
Sherwood, from what you say it sounds like the touristy part of the caves is possibly a bit of an' afterthought' to exploit the caves commercially (nothing wrong with that - at least they were saved from the developer's cement  ;)). Are they less interesting than some of the other caves in the area? Have you been in any other caves? I take it that many/most are privately owned?
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: groom on Saturday 25 August 12 00:34 BST (UK)
Looking at this site  http://www.cityofcaves.com/index.asp?getpage=true&sid=41  it seems as if the only cenus they might be on would be the 1841  "Many were inhabited until 1845, when the St. Mary’s Enclosure Act banned the rental of cellars and caves as homes for the poor, though the practice continued underground! "
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 25 August 12 01:15 BST (UK)
This is so fascinating...I have never heard of these caves.  Not that I am from Nottingham of course.

But what is so interesting is that we have a similar thing in Stockport (Cheshire) which has aso been turned into a visitor attraction showing how they were used as air raid shelters in the war.  We always knew the stories of them so it was great to be able to visit.  It sounds like there are so many more in Nottingham though and they had so many interesting uses. I hope the visitor attraction is not too tacky - the website doesn't really sell it too well  ::)

One interesting story we learnt in theStockport ones is that the caves were originaly dug behind people's homes to avoid them having to pay tax on extra rooms.... they just dug back secretly and no one knew they were there until years later.

I do love Rootschat ;D  I learn something knew every day!!

Milly

Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: weste on Saturday 25 August 12 18:52 BST (UK)
You can also go on a fright nights tour! I found the historical side of leather tanning in the caves very interesting. Try guessing what they used, very freely available! Also were used as air raid shelters.  Did n't realise there were some in stockport.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 26 August 12 08:30 BST (UK)
I found the historical side of leather tanning in the caves very interesting. Try guessing what they used, very freely available!

Urine.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: weste on Sunday 26 August 12 13:16 BST (UK)
Yep! You've been reading up.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 26 August 12 13:39 BST (UK)
No,not reading up. I think I saw it on that Tony Robinson 'Worst Jobs in History' programme years ago ....  ;)
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: adief/CGH on Wednesday 29 August 12 18:20 BST (UK)
There will be an open day at Sneinton Hermitage, Nottingham on Sunday 9th September from 2-4pm.
Check out website- www.nottinghamessense.co.uk/sneinton-hermitage-caves
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: adief/CGH on Wednesday 29 August 12 18:23 BST (UK)
 Gate 3, Park Rock Apartments, Castle Boulevard, Nottingham  caves open on Saturday 8th September at various times.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: dawnn73 on Friday 14 September 12 23:14 BST (UK)
I work in one of Nottingham's shops that has part of the caves as its basement. A lot of shops have boarded or plastered their basements over, but we still have the original bricks.

We can't move through them though, I don't think a well known department store would be happy if we just kept popping up from down below!

It can be quite eerie at night if you're down there alone, but still amazing.
Title: Re: The Caves - Who lived in them?
Post by: copperbeech5 on Saturday 15 September 12 00:07 BST (UK)
Hi Dawnn,

Welcome to Rootschat!

Wow, what a wonderful bit of information, it is all so amazing to think of these caves under our feet, with so much history attached!

Can also imagine they can seem a bit eerie at night!!

Best wishes,
Copperbeech5