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Independent Islands => Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark => Channel Islands Lookup Requests => Topic started by: DOB7 on Friday 20 January 12 12:04 GMT (UK)
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I have a will dated Nov 19th 1860 for an Amelia Georgina Matilda LILLICRAP (nee TREEVE) who was the widow of Robert George Adams Welsford LILLICRAP. Apparently thay had a daughter Matilda Frances Adelaide LILLICRAP, but I am unable to locate any details about her.
Robert died in 1850 in Plymouth, Devon.
Amelia TREEVE was born in the Channel Islands, daughter of Capt Richard TREEVE and his wife Henrietta Matilda IMPEY who married in Cornwall in 1813. She had sisters Elizabeth, Marianne Impey and Emma Octavia Augusta, all apparently born St Saviours, Jersey.
Does anyone have access to baptism records for any of the TREEVE sisters or for Matilda LILLICRAP? I am also trying to locate the marriage for Amelia to Robert LILLICRAP. I have census data for 1841 and 1851.
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I was most interested by your post about Amelia Treeve and Robert Lillicrap.
Amelia belongs to a branch of my family that currently intrigues me. Her mother, Matilda Impey, married Capt Richard Treeve in Cornwall in 1813. Her father, Capt Michael Impey, was the eldest son of Sir Elijah Impey, the Chief Justice of Bengal during Warren Hastings' time there. Her mother, Henrietta Knight, was the natural daughter of the 1st & last Earl of Catherlough.
I descend from Henrietta's elder brother, Robert Knight, who was Lord Catherlough's heir. He inherited some 7000 acres in Montgomeryshire and Warwickshire, and lived very comfortably in a house in Grosvenor Square. His daughter and heiress married Edward Bolton King, of Chadshunt, Warwickshire - they were my great-great-grandparents.
The Impey/Treeves were known to the Kings as poor relations, but something seemed to go very badly wrong with them. Amelia's younger sister, Marion, had an illegitimate daughter in 1850 - possibly/probably by the local vicar, Rev William Corbet le Breton, who was Lily Langtry's father. The daughter left for Australia in around 1875 where she led a pretty miserable life. The whole Treeves family seem to have disappeared from Jersey about that time, and Marion Treeves (now Searle) next appears as a children's nurse in Islington.
Can you throw any light on this? Where do you fit in?
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Hello, and thank you for your most interesting reply. I am related to the LILLICRAP branch.
Robert George Adams Welsford LILLICRAP was a paymaster in the RN and was the 6th child of Rear Admiral James LILLICRAP - details of whom can be seen at http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/Plymouth/JamesLillicrap1849.html . They were a fairly distinguished naval family. (Heroic deeds and all that)
In Amelia Georgeina Matilda Treeve LILLICRAP's will, (dated 1860) she states that part of her inhertiance is from the late Major TREEVE. She makes reference to her sister Marian stating that should her own daughter Matilda not survive, her estate should pass to her 'older' sister (Marian was actually 5 years younger) Marian Impey SEARLE, wife of Amelia's executor John Phillip SEARLE with survivorship of monies to go to the SEARLE children.
The 1851 census shows Marian, younger sister Emma living with father Richard TREEVE all described as fund holders. Emma certainly went on to own property on the island - she married a John Underwood SEARLE and was receiving income from it as late as 1882.
What was the name of Marian's child?
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How very interesting!
It's reassuring that the Treeve family were not shipwrecked at the time of Amelia's marriage - presumably some time in the mid-1840s.
The story of Marian's daughter Barbara Impey (Searle) is told in "About the Impeys" a book by Mrs E.A. Impey, published in 1963.
Apparently this old lady, Barbara Impey, died in Sydney, Australia in 1926 without any known relations. She was found to have some £1000 hidden away in cash in the house but was otherwise destitute. Advertisements were put in the papers to discover relations, but with no result. According to a lady who befriended her, she said that she had been born in Jersey, and that her father was a clergyman. She said that her mother had never liked her and that, when her mother married, she was afraid of her stepfather. When she was about 25, her mother had sent her to Australia with £1000, telling her not to come back and not to spend the £1000 until she couldn't work any more. She seems to have kept it all her life! She had earned money by doing washing for the family of the lady who told her story, and had otherwise sold magazines door to door. She could read and write, but was otherwise very simple and innocent - and suffered from deafness.
In the 1871 census, she was known as Barbara Impey Searle, but in Australia she was known just as Barbara Impey.,
Marian Treeve had several children by Searle, but they could not be traced. Barbara's £1000 is still lodged with the Australian authorities!
With best wishes for your continuing researches
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Many thanks for the additional information. I've come to the conclusion that Emma, (Amelia & Marian's sister) born 1831, married John Phillip SEARLE's father - John Underwood SEARLE. See http://www.jerseyheritagetrust.jeron.je/wwwopac.exe?DATABASE=items&LANGUAGE=0&DEBUG=0&BRIEFADAPL=../web/archbrf&SRT0=gc&SEQ0=ascendingOCC0=1&zQ=Underwood,+Emma+Octavia+Augusta+Davis,+nee+Treeve&LIMIT=50
In 1861, John U, John P, Marian & Emma are all living at the same address as in 1871. Also present is Matilda LILLICRAP - Amelia's orphaned daughter.
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Hi, my 2nd great grandfather Charles Hasting Treeve was an older brother of your Amelia. In all there were eight children of the Treeve/Impey marriage:-
John Richard Henry 1814
Michael Elijah 1815-1888
George Lovibond 1817-
Charles Hastings 1821-1863
Amelia Georgiana Matilda 1825-1860
Adolphus Cornelius 1826-1848
Marian Impey 1828-1906
Emma Augusta Octavia Davies 1832-1916
I have been researching the Treeve family for many years but your post is the first I have found that deals directly with the family of Richard and Henrietta. I have amassed a fair amount of information with regards to this family and I am very willing to share and compare notes.
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Hello,
I have some information on the TREEVEs and believe that here may have been more siblings - Elizabeth born ca 1815 and Frederic William b. 10 May 1819 bapt 30 May. I did not have John Richard or Michael Elijah.
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hi again
I have copies of Richard's army returns these documents only list my eight. Where were the other two born?
With regard to Matilda Frances Adelaide in the Jersey census 1881 there is a Matilda F A Fielding ,birth place and year fit. Husband Francis W Fielding. Their son Clarence HASTINGS Fielding born St Saviour Jersey 14 July 1868. Hastings is a name that was synonymous with the Treeve/Impey family. Clarence has three kids Charles, Dorothy ADELAIDE and Evelyn. Maybe just coincidental. Only found this tonight so will need to check a bit more.
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Frederick William was baptised at St Saviour:
Frederic Wm. TREEVE 30.05.1819 Godparents: Michel Elie Impey & Henriette M. Nicholson (nee b. 10.05.1819)
I'm not certain about Elizabeth. It may be that only 8 children survived.
Interesting find regarding Matilda LILLICRAP - I see that Clarence's birth was registered in Brighton, Sussex. In 1871, the FIELDINGS are lodging with a grocer, James CATCHLOVE and his family in Littlehampton, Sussex. RG10 piece 1109 folio 72 page 1. Matilda inherited quite a decent annuity from her mother, so she would have been a good 'catch'. Please let me know if you unearth anything further on this.
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This is very interesting.
Charles Hastings Treeve was my great-grandfather's second cousin. I would be very interested to know more about him and about his brothers and sisters. What did they do?
I've always wondered how close Mrs Treeve was to her Impey/Knight relations. She had a maternal aunt, Mrs Charles Fuller, who lived in Regency Square, Brighton and died in the 1860s in her 90s. She was rich and childless. Mrs Treeve's uncle, Robert Knight, also lived to a great age. I was interested to see that one of the names she gave her eldest daughter was Georgiana, which was the name of her Knight first cousin, Mrs King.
Do the Treeve family still have links with Jersey?
Lord Catherlough entailed his property in a complicated trust. The entail was broken some 150 years ago when there was a disputed succession. Had it not been, I would be the present tenant for life of the 7000 acres - and after my death (since I have no sons) the next heir would have been the male heir of Mrs Treeve's mother, Mrs Nicholson. Mrs Nicholson's elder son, Maj Henry Impey, had a relationship with an Indian lady by whom he had a son. If he had married her, that son's Anglo-Indian descendants would have been in for a nice surprise on my death!
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Charles and his wife Harriet Marsh Renwick arrived in Melbourne with their two sons George Renwick and James Charles in 1850. Charles went about establishing a grocers business in Lonsdale St, Melbourne. The business either failed or Charles left for the "diggings" the later probably more plausible as thousands flocked to the Victorian gold sites at this time.
Harriet died at Beechworth Hosp. Vic in 1859. Charles died at Adelong NSW in 1863. Son George born Jersey 1843 died at Liverpool NSW in 1918, no issue.
James Charles born at sea 1849 married Sarah Harvey at Beechworth Vic in 1892. James Charles died 1895 in Fitzroy Vic. They had two sons James Thomas 1893 -1942, no issue and George Henry 1894-1954, George is my paternal grandfather.
I do have further information which could go on for pages with regard to Charles Hastings and his siblings but I am only new to this forum and haven"t yet worked out how to best utilise it.
Looking at information that I do have Henrietta had maintained ties with the Impey family throughout her life.
To the best of my knowledge the Treeve family has no connections within today's Jersey.
A few years back I corresponded for a time with a distant cousin who also authored the Knights of Barrells. He was most generous with regard to sharing info on the Knight family. You more than likely are acquainted with him too.
Over the years with the purchase of new computers and changing email addresses I have lost contact with this chap. So I am very happy to be in contact with you.
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How very interesting...
Your contact will have been Arthur Carden, who gave me very interesting information that clearly he had got from you about the Impey family. He descends from one of my great-grandfather's sisters and is a mine of information on the Knight family.
What a fascinating story. Clearly the young Charles Hastings, married with children, had to make his own way and Australia was the place. I had a great-great aunt on my mother's side whose husband went out to South Africa at about the same time. We have albums of Durban and other towns in South Africa from the 1850s and 1860s which shows them to be little more than a few shacks and a main street.
I'm sorry that his children were orphaned so young. Who looked after them?
I would be fascinated to know what happened to Charles Hastings' siblings. Names and dates need to be complemented by the human stories.
I am indeed delighted to have made contact with an Australian cousin!
With best wishes
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I was interested to read all this. I'm descended from Grace Treeve who married 1791 Martin Wright at Paul, Cornwall.
I corresponded years ago with Kerrie, and Joan, ladies in Australia re. the Treeve family: are one of you Rootschatting?
Here's a link to Fred Pendlebury which has some info:
www.one-name.org/stories3.html
I didn't know about poor Amelia and Marion. I'll try to get the Impey book.
A brother of Chas. Hastings Treeve was Josiah Richard Treeve. Now he was the black sheep of the family, & disgraced himself in Australia. I think the other Aust. Treeves added an S to their name to distance themselves!
It's amazing how the Christian names "Richard Treeve" have been used through far-flung branches of the family tree. Googling that phrase is fascinating.
Kath.
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Just to add a little to all of this - I've now concluded that Amelia Georgina Matilda TREEVE, mother of Matilda Frances Adelaide LILLICRAP, never actually married Robert George Adams Welsford LILLICRAP. He returned to England where he died in Plymouth in October 1850.
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Hi Kath
Yes it is Joan. I have in the past corresponded with Fred and his info has been most helpful.
Josiah Richard was the son of Capt. John Treeve and Charles Hasting a son of Major Richard Treeve, they were cousins.
With regard to the Lillicrap situation how was the conclusion that they never married arrived at?
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No evidence of the marriage on the mainland or in Jersey - I've had Jersey Heritage searching for the marriage and I conduct a one-name study for the surname and have no trace of it. I'm hoping to be proved wrong! :-) Robert LILLICRAP's family was on Jersey in the 1840s but was originally from Devon.
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Dob7,
I expect you have tried local, Jersey, newspapers for marriage or birth announcements for Robert & Amelia.
Even refs. to Mr. & Mrs. Lillicrap would be useful.
Have you access to the 'Times' search?
There are refs. to Lillicrap, especially in Naval Intelligence.
Kath.
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I have tried the major newspaper archives to locate either the marriage or birth. I haven't tried the Jersey ones due to lack of access and this is a spur line. The LILLICRAP family were well known in Naval circles due to Robert's father being a Rear Admiral, and consequently any news about them (BMD, acts of derring-do) was usually published in several places - Bristol, Hampshire, Edinburgh, Ireland, Malta, New Zealand and of course, Devon. In 1850 2 of the LILLICRAP sons died - Frederick Hart LILLICRAP aged 18 aboard HMS Tweed was reported in at least 4 publications - and Robert George Adams Welsford LILLICRAP who died in Plymouth and wasn't reported anywhere. Was he considered a black sheep?
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R G A W Lillicrap's death was reported in the Nautical Standard, Saturday 19 October 1850, London Middlesex.
"9 Oct 1850 aged 29 years and seven months 3rd son of Rear Admiral James Lillicrap BN".
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Many thanks for that - I wonder then, did the family know about his 'wife'? I'll just have to keep digging.
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John Underwood Searle was my great great grandfather, and John Phillip Searle, husband of Marian Impey Searle, was my great grand uncle. I am just sorting this all out now. I couldn't quite figure out how the Impey and the Lillicrap family were related to mine, but I am beginning to understand.
I have John Underwood Searle married the first time to Elizabeth (poss. Lempriere) (They are the parents of my great grandfather, Alfred George Searle, and then a second to an Emma. I suppose this would be the sister of Marian to which someone referred in an earlier post. Do I have that right?
Did John Underwood Searle and his son John Phillip Searle marry sisters?
Was John Phillip Searle the mean stepfather mentioned in the story about Barbara Impey?
Can someone verify whether or not I have this right?
Thanks
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Richard TREEVE & wife Henrietta Matilda IMPEY had 10 children. Of these, the youngest, Emma Octavia Augusta Davis TREEVE (1831-1916) married John Underwood SEARLE. He was the father of John Philip SEARLE.
John Philip SEARLE married the second youngest Marian Impey TREEVE (1928-1907). She previously had an illegitimate daughter Barbara Impey (1850-1927). Hope this makes sense, but yes, you had understood the story correctly I think.
Do you have the marriage dates for the SEARLEs?
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My family tree is Ennis and I have a document from The National Archives where George Ennis (aged 14) is indentured as an apprentice into the Navy. Witness to the signatures of George and his mother and father is Amelia Lilicrap's signature. It is dated 5 September 1864. I thought you might be interested in that fact. Good luck with your searching. Bettyve
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Believe it or not, this is probably a different Amelia LILLICRAP. I have another branch of the family living in Jersey at that time, wife Amelia (Couch). Amelia Treeve LILLICRAP died in 1860.
Thanks for the information though - I'll add it to my files.