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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Schoch on Friday 20 January 12 18:02 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for the Muras family from Newcastle Upon Tyne. I am researching my Gibson/Grainger family tree. In my search I noticed that the name Muras suddenly appeared as a middle name in the mid 1800's and continued for 3 generations. The current holder of the name is my Aunt but she also is at a loss to explain the origin.
My experience has shown that sometimes the maiden name of a spouse is used as a middle name of the children, but have not as yet been able to prove this in this case.
The marriage that I believe would account for this is between John Gibson (b 1833) and Ann ? (b 1840). From Census records they married in 1858 and lived in Newcastle (Pitt St. Prudhoe St and Barrack St). But I can find no record of a marriage yet.
Has anyone found any marriages between a Muras and a Gibson (yes I realize that Gibson was a very common name at that time) but was there only one Muras family during this time period?
Any help would be most appreciated
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What about this marriage?
September qtr 1858
Newcastle Upon Tyne vol 10b, page 106
Gibson, John
+ and on the same page +
Graham, Ann
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Thanks for the record, appreciate the fast response. This gives me a marriage to an Ann Graham, but still on the track of someone with the name Muras. Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho it's off to search I go.
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Maybe it ties in with Archibold Gibson and Jane Muras married at Newcastle St. John 28 May 1831
They have children John, Robert, and Sarah. They are in Gateshead in 1841 HO107/296/13 folio 17 page 27. Archibold was born Scotland and is a shoemaker.
1851 HO107/2405 folio 157 page 22 under Archbold Gibson. He is a widower there but the three children are there. The John Gibson was 18 years old and a Bricklayer born Newcastle. Is this your John?
Janis
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In the BT's for St. John there is a baptism of Sarah Mures/Muirs Gibson daur of Archibold and Jane Mu??as of Buckingham St., Shoemaker. The birth registration calls it Sarah Myers Gibson BT's---page 19 of 686
Janis
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Janice,
Thanks again. I do have a William Archibald Gibson in my tree (married to Elizabeth Grainger in 1881), but had always thought the Gibsons never went south of the Tyne river (if you grew up there you would understand LOL). But this does give me another line to search to try and confirm a connection. Up till now I only found Muras names in Berwick area.
wooppps !!!! just got your next post ... interesting !!! Maybe there is a missing sibling from my tree that could account for this "branch"
Much appreciated
Richard
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Hi Janice,
In answer to your question "Is this your John"..well the yr of birth is right on, but I have him as son of Joseph Gibson and Jane Fife in 1820 (yes the name "Jane" again). You have given me another line to check, but it looks hopeful.
Never used the RootsChat before, amazing to get anyone to reply.
Richard
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Well maybe they just walked across one of the bridges and were there for a holiday during the census night.
I think Muras is going to have a few spellings.
Janis
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Janice,
Wise words, the question is how many bridges were there at that time and which one did they walk across.
Yes I agree the spelling of Muras will have a few varieties.
OK so I assumed you are not in the north east of the UK, maybe you are. But then again neither am I (not even close).
I still have some digging to do on this, but again thank you for your assistance.
Richard
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Wise words, the question is how many bridges were there at that time and which one did they walk across.
In the 1830's only one - the Georgian Tyne Bridge.
http://www.bridgesonthetyne.co.uk/georgian.html
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0jwi/
Lots of ferry crossings as well, of course.
Don't dismiss the idea of them living in one place and getting married in another. Many of my ancestors lived in the Consett area of County Durham in the early/mid 1800's. But most of them popped over to Newcastle on Tyne to get married.
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Thanks for the info' My relatives may indeed have crossed over the bridge but all the addresses I've found are for Byker and Sctotswood Rd and even Tynemouth. I agree though it is worth a consideration, especially as I can not find the connection I need between the Gibson/Muras families.
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In 1851 census, the John Gibson, age 17, b. Newcastle, son of Joseph Gibson and Jane, living in Scotswood, is a Joiner and Cartwright.
The John Gibson, age 18, b. Newcastle, son of widowed Archibald Gibson (and Jane Muras), living in Newcastle St.Andrew, is a Bricklayer.
Your proven John, from 1861 census onwards with wife Ann, is a Bricklayer.
Given the Muras mother and his occupation, I'd say the John, son of Archibald and Jane is most likely your man.
It may be worth getting a birth cert for one of John and Anns children, which will give Anns maiden name, and then you can search for their marriage and obtain their fathers names. William Archibald Gibson, Jun Qtr 1861, Newcastle, should give you the right info.
Another possible marriage on Familysearch at Newcastle St. Andrew, 31 August 1856.
John Gibson and Ann Bryson. Grooms father Archibald Gibson, brides father William Bryson. You really need the brides name to identify the right marriage.
Alan.
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Thanks Alan,
Looks very promising and once I've crossed the "T" and dotted the "i" (maybe send for a Birth Cert.) I will be adding another twig to the branch of the tree.
For some reason I became locked into "north" of the Tyne and never considered looking south, mainly I think because every Gibson record I found was in Byker,Elswick,Scotswood ereas. Onwards I go to seek more answers to the family tree mystery.
Richard
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They didn't move very far south. They are only there in the 1841 census, on Gateshead High Street, which starts about 200 yards uphill from the site of the old Georgian Bridge.
Gateshead and Newcastle were one urban area really, lots of movement between the two in search of work.
Alan.
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Wolfie,
Thanks, realize the geography involved... married a Gateshead Lass myself (many moons ago) but live much to far away now to actually go and look at the records. Will try to order the appropriate Birth Cert online. Trouble is you do not always get the information required. The last one I received, for someone else, did not list the father's name at all, and it was his name that I was looking for (LOL)
Richard
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Hi Folks
Birth Cert of son William Archibald Gibson arrived. John Gibson married an Ann Bryson Jul 1858 in Newcastle. Another link in the chain added but still looking for the source of the name Muras.
Thanks for all your help with this
Richard
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I must have missed something here. You have a birth cert for William Archbold Gibson--right? His father was John Gibson and mother Ann Bryson? And John's occupation at the time of the birth? They married in Newcastle in 1856 (not 1858). From that marriage you have that John's father was Archibold. What you need to know is what was listed as his occupation. Perhaps someone going to Tyne and Wear Archives can look it up easily in St. Andrew register for the 31 Aug 1856.
Ann Graham and a John Gibson married in St. John's in 1858
I don't think the above information necessarily negates that Archibold Gibson married a Jane Muras in 1831 and they were the parents of John and is probably your Muras link.
Janis
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I have the digital copy (hard copy on way) of William Archibald Gibson. John is listed as a bricklayer on it and again on the 1861 census. My tree shows John's father as Joseph married to a Jane Fife. Please tell me this is not wrong !!
Where did you find John's father as Archibald, 'cause that makes more sense in the traditional naming convention of that time.
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OK, I've read the back posts and now I see the connection. Archibald Gibson/Ann Muras, John Gibson/Ann Bryson, Wiliam Archibald Gibson/Elizabeth Grainger.
My previous thanks were premature.
Richard
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Jane Muras
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Thanks,
In my excitement I typed the wrong name. I am now fairly certain this is a match for my tree.
Richard
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You are very fortunate to be searching for a very uncommon family name MURAS.
A branch must have landed in Sydney in the late 1800's and they were steelworkers (common in Newcastle UK) and what I have gathered so far is;
William T Muras husband of Matilda died in Glebe Sydney 1894.
John Muras died in Glebe Sydney 1895(could have been a child).
Luke Redford Muras birth was registered in Sydney 1887 son of Luke GR and Helena.
Luke Redford Muras was a student in The Engineering Association of NSW according to the Minutes of the Annual General Meeting of the Assn. 12th Oct. 1906;
http://escholarship.usyd.edu.au/journals/index.php/EANSW/article/viewFile/3624/4228
Luke Redford Muras went on to own one of the largest steel fabrication companys in Sydney it was taken over by Australian Consolidated industries in August 1959
Luke Muras junr. won 1st prize in 'Students Papers' for an article 'Modern Steel Roofs' at the Assn Gen Mtg 10th Oct 1907;
http://escholarship.usyd.edu.au/journals/index.php/EANSW/article/viewFile/3624/4228.
There is probably much more but I will leave that to you.
My interest is that I did have an association with the Sydney firm in the 1950's.
Joe
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Joboy,
I take it that William T was born in the UK and emigrated to Australia. Do you have any others that did this. Would be nice to connect them up with the Newcastle tree.
Richard
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I suspect that the John Muras was not a child as I earlier suggested but he was the first Muras to land here in Australia.
He arrived on the vessel 'Allenshaw' in 1883 aged 59 with his wife Eleanor 53 and a girl 'Minnie' aged 9;
Minnie was born at Alnwick march qtr 1874 ref 10b 368.
http://search.ancestry.com.au/iexec?htx=View&r=5544&dbid=1210&iid=imaus1787_081087-0021&fn=John&ln=Muras&st=r&ssrc=&pid=7346287
So John was born circa 1824 and his wife's maiden name was Redford they were married at Alnwick Northumberland in March qtr 1851 ,,,,,, it was probably Eleanor's parish ...... a common procedure in those days.
So the John Muras who died in Glebe Sydney 1895 was about 71 and his father was 'John' and mother 'unknown'.
From the record;
Reg. Number Last Name Given Name Father's Name Mother's Name District
12341/1895 MURAS JOHN JOHN UNKNOWN GLEBE
.....................................................................................................................................
Joe
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Joboy,
I take it that William T was born in the UK and emigrated to Australia. Do you have any others that did this. Would be nice to connect them up with the Newcastle tree.
Richard
There is a Wiliam TB Muras born in Alnwick Sep qtr 1866 and my guess he came out to OZ at a different time but quite likely to have been closely related to John Muras who came here 1883.
I will PM a listing of births in Sydney which might be of interest.
Joe
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Hi,
I see there were more of the Muras clan on that ship.
Eleanor b: 1861
Sarah J b:1862
Kate b: 1863
Mary b: 1865
Thomas b: 1866
Fred b: 1869
Also on the "Northampton" in 1880 were
Luke b: 1855 his wife
Ellena b:1856 and daughter
Minnie b: 1880
In fact looking at the family tree just about all the children sailed to OZ (except one that died in the UK)
Richard
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Found William in an 1881 census with his sister Elizabeth Ann b: 1859 in Alnwick, living in Newcastle. The hunt is on !!!
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Just stumbled across this Muras post. I know its been a while since posts were made. Fred Muras born 1869 was my great grandfather and am interested in finding out more about the Muras family esp pre Australian times.
Cheers
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Sorry I have not checked this post for a while. My only interest in the Muras family was when one, Jane, married Archibald Gibson. This resulted in the name being used in every generation since as a middle name. There is mention of Muras's in OZ that were mentioned earlier in this post that might help you.
There are some trees on Ancestry this further, if you have access to them, or even in Family Search as well.
Good Luck
Richard