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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: CarlaGee39 on Sunday 22 January 12 13:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I am researching the family of David Hamilton Weir, son of David Weir (b. 1778, Old Cumnock, Ayr) and Margaret Hamilton (b. 1778, New Cumnock, Ayr). My interest is centered around James Weir and Jean Mitchell (parents of David Weir snr), which is where the research get's a bit hazy and uncertain. I have researched as far as John Weir and Agnes Hunter (parents of James), and William Weir and Jean Good (parents of John), however, feel some doubts as to whether the information gathered is correct.
Many people on Ancestry.com have noted that the brother of John, Hugh (son of William Weir and Jean Good), traveled to America where he owned a plantation. Once again I have no idea if this information is correct. Others have noted a connection to the powerful De Vere family.
I would love to know what I can follow for certain and what information has minimal backing. Also, if you have an extensive knowledge of the descendents of the De Vere family I would love to know if you think a connection is plausible. Please help!!
Kind Regards,
Carla Grillo
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Hi,
I am of the David WEIR - Margaret HAMILTON line.
David WEIR married Margaret HAMILTON in 1802. David was the son of James WEIR (born about 1748 at Blackfaulds, Old Cumnock, Ayrshire). He married Jean MITCHELL in about 1770.
David was born on 24 May 1776 at Blackfaulds. James and Jean had about 9 children.
From my narrative:
"David Weir of this parish (Old Cumnock) and Margaret Hamilton of Kirkconnell gave up
their names for proclamation on the 20th March 1802. Were regularly proclaimed immediately following Sabbath and no objections being offered were married on the 2nd
April 1802.
Unfortunately, this record gives us no indication to the identity of David Weir's parents.
This is not an unusual occurrence. This record of the marriage is better than most as some
marriage records only contain a list of names putting forward their names for proclamation..
However, there is a strong possibility that the parents of David Weir were James Weir (born about 1753) and Jean Mitchell (also born about 1753)
James Weir and Jean Mitchell had 9 children;
John Weir, born about 1771
Robert Weir, born about 1773 and possibly who died in 1854
James Weir, born about 1776 and possibly who died in 1849
David Weir, born about 1778, and who married Margaret HAMILTON on 2nd April 1802
Ann Weir, born about 1781 and possibly who died in 1848
William Weir, born about 1786 and possibly who died in 1824
Margaret Weir, born about 1787 and possibly who died in 1857
Thomas Weir, born about 1790 and possibly who died in 1869
Mary Weir, born about 1793 and possibly who died in ?
The line of descendency follows David Weir and Margaret HAMILTON
Between their marriage date of 1802 and 1823, David and Margaret had ten children.
James Weir, born BEFORE 24 May 1803 at New Cumnock, Ayr. Christened 24 May 1803, Cumnock, Ayr and died 12 November 1879 at Cumnock, Ayr.
[Source IGI ]
Mary Weir, born before 15th November 1805. The lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton
John Weir, born possibly on 1st September 1806 . He was christened on 7th December 1806. The lawful son of Davie Weir and Margaret Hamilton.
Robert Weir, born before 17 October 1808, the date on which he was christened at Waterhead, New Cumnock, Ayr.
Jane Weir, born before the 26 December l812, the day of her christening, lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton. Died after 1841
Alexander Weir, born before 1 July 1814 at New Cumnock. Died after 1841
Margaret Weir, born 17th February 1817 lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton
Sarah Weir , born 1st February 1819 lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton of Waterside
William Weir, born before 26 May 1821 when he was christened at Waterhead, New Cumnock, Ayr. Died after 1841
Ann Weir, born 26th May 1823 the lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton
The terminology "lawful” indicated that the parents were married. If not married the child would be referred to as "natural".
Any connection ?
Bill
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Hi Bill,
Yes there is definitely a connection. I am researching this line for my partner's family. They are descended from David Hamilton Weir, the son (which I noticed you don't have) of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton. He was born in 1811 in Waterhead, and died at the ripe old age of 97 in 1908 in Maffra, Vic, Australia. He emigrated from Scotland in 1838.
How are you related?
Cheers,
Carla
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Hi CarlaGee39,
My lineage is through (David WEIR + Jean MITCHELL) to (David WEIR + Margaret HAMILTON) to (John WEIR + Ann McCLYMONT) to (James WEIR + Jessie STEVENSON) to (John WEIR + Janet CUTHBERT) and then (William WEIR + Joan PARRY).
Although I do not know of a De Vere connection, I think there is a connection from Margaret HAMILTON to The Earl HAMILTON +Lady Brogha.
Billy
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Hi
In the Old Cumnock Church yard there is a headstone to James WEIR, late in Auchingibert, who died 30 June 1810
age 72 years.
A testament for this James WEIR makes mentiion of a (2nd?) spouse named Janet HOWATSON
Alastair
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Hi Everyone
I am the Great Great Granddaughter of David Hamilton Weir and Elizabeth Doran whom he married in 1841 in Melbourne. Their daughter Ann was my Great Grandmother and she was born in Stratford, Victoria, Australia in 1846 and married John Pruden in 1872 at Maffra.
I only had the family tree as far back as David Weir Snr without any dates, so am thrilled to read about others with dates and spouses.
Can anyone throw any light on the de Veres. I read somewhere that the de Veres were knights who probably came over with the Duke of Normandy in 1066.
Pat
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Hi Bill
Im just starting to look at my family tree and your information is so helpfull, I have a scrap of paper from an old aunts bilble and it looks like i am off the same line as you described. though from james weir/ david weir and onto william weir who i believe the duke of argyll brought tenneant farms into argyll from ayrshire to improve farming. Do you know anything of this. I believe to Cour at skipness and if you look at history of muck web site my great great grampa is mentioned there. Do you have any more information.
John Weir
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Hi all,
I've traced my ancestry back to James Weir and Jean Mitchell via their son Thomas (b. 1790), but haven't been able to find James' birth in any parish records. Does anybody know what records link him to John Weir and Agnes Hunter? I've seen this connection on Ancestry.co.uk, but I've also seen them claimed as parents of a James Weir also born in 1748, but with a different spouse and children. I'm hoping to find a source other than Ancestry.co.uk family trees so I can be more sure if the link!
Best wishes,
John Weir
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Hi CarlaGee39, I saw your post of numerous years ago on the subject of James Weir and Jean Mitchell of Old Cumnock. I hope I may be of help as James Weir 1748-1810 was my 4 x Great Grandfather.
Regards Graeme
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Hi Graeme,
I’m very happy to see this thread come back to life after quite a few years! James Weir was my 5 x great grandfather, via Thomas Weir (b. 1790) and a succession of Johns. I found a few documents about James - a couple of tax records and a digitised version of an early edition of Burns’s poetry where James was listed as a subscriber. But I never found a birth or marriage entry in the parish registers, so couldn’t be completely sure of the line going any further back. I was in Cumnock a few years ago and found some gravestones with older Weirs, but couldn’t be sure how they were related to each other. If you have any further information, I would be fascinated to compare notes.
Kind regards,
John Weir
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Hello Graeme and John i have a connection to the Australia Weirs and would like to be included in the conversation.
DavidHamiltonWEIRb11.7.1811WaterheadNewCumnockAyrsh.
d2.4.1908Newry.Brd3.4.1908Nuntin[Stratford]Cem.
m15.2.1841.ScotsChurchMelb.ElizabethDORANb29.5.1818CoskryKrkdbrit.d2.3.1865Newry.
Their daughter married my GGgreat Uncle -
George"Cox"GILBERTb2.10.1847Bristol,d17.2.1929Geham,
m.11.1872StratfordMargaretWEIRb.9.5.1854Stratford.Bapt.19.7.1854Stratford,d11.5.1932Geham
Cheers
Jack Gee
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Jack and John,
Let me start by including a message I sent to someone on Ancestry which highlights but one of my conundrums.
"My name is James Graeme Weir, known as Graeme to my family. I have been researching the family genealogy for about 4 years and looking in great depth at my paternal line.
I come from a line of farmers and drapers based mainly in South West Scotland. Scotland People hold archives dating back to 1855 to which we can get easy access for records of Birth, Deaths and Marriages. Before that we are very much dependant on Parish records which are said to date back to the mid 1500’s but many have been lost of destroyed before the central registry was founded.
I recently came across a claim that I was very distantly connects to the 2 Bush’s, Presidents of the USA, but am struggling to find tangible evidence that this could be the case.
We have a Hugh Weir 1721-1779 who married a Margaret McEwan 1720-1779 who married in the USA about 1740, or so it is claimed. It is also claimed that Hugh’s parents were William (George) Weir and Jean Good.
I am happy that my 4th Great Grandfather was James Weir 1748-1810 who farmed outside Old Cumnock in Ayrshire. My 5th Great Grandfather was John Weir 1818-1788 who farmed near Muirkirk in Ayrshire. My 6th Great Grandfather was William (George) Weir 1696-1749 as mentioned above. We have very few records to substantiate the connection with 6th GGF as much as we would like it.
There are claims that he spent time in Antrim, Northern Ireland and that he actually died there!! Show me the proof. There are also claims that his son Hugh was born in Antrim although parish records would state otherwise.
I would very much like to be enlightened but I very much doubt that the Hugh Weir who died in the USA was actually the Hugh Weir that was born in Sorn, Ayrshire to one William Weir and Jean Good.
If you are able to shed light on this conundrum I would very much like to see any evidence that you have been able to dredge from the annals of time."
Right, Issue 2.
I recently found someone on Ancestry who claims to have traced the Weirs. Wears, Wiers, De Veres back to the 600's AD would you believe it? I have chased for evidence and sources of his findings but today nothing.
The paternal line looks something like this:
William George Weir 1686-1746 x Jean Good 1695-1765
James (Robert) Weir 1670-1716 x (Kathrin) Catherine Smith 1672-?
Johne Weir 1641-1716 x Agnes Mathie 1641-?
William Weir 1615-1677 x Cathrein Jap 1619-?
John Weir 1592-1643 x ?
John Weir 1570-? x ?
James Weir ? x Rachel Carmichael ?
Thomas Weir 1528-1587 x Janet Johnston 1530-?
Sir J LoB Weir 1499-1595 x Lady E Hamilton 1507-1550
Thomas 4th LoB Weir 1462-1531 x Aegida S Somerville1463-1545
Robert 3rd LoB Weir ? x Lee Annette Jones ?
Thomas 2nd LoB Weir 1400-? x Mr Thomas Weir 1399-?
Rothaldus 1 LoB Weir 1368-1400 x Mrs Rothaldus Weir 1374-?
Buan Weir 1340-1390 x Mrs Buan Weir 1349-?
T (De Were) Weir ? x Mrs Thomas Weir ?
Richard Weir 1251-? x Ladt Thomas Weir 1262-?
Rudolphus R DeVere 1230-1296 x Lady R R DeVere 1230-?
Walter DeVere ? x Lady Walter DeVere ?
Baltredus DeVere 1191-? x Lady Baltredus DeVere 1195-?
Vere, Magna carta Sur 1164-1221 x Isabel De Bolebec 1164-1245
and so it goes on 635AD. I can give you more but it is no use unless you can verify the source.
John-
Right, now back to the 1700's . james Weir 1748-1810 x Jane (Jean) Mitchell . This James was my 4 xGGF. I live just north of Dumfries and abou45 min drive from Old Cumnock. I have trolled the graveyard on Barhill Road and found the gravestones for both James 4xGGF and James1807-1866 his son and my 3xGGF. I think I have photos of both if you are interested. I can also let you have access to my tree in Ancestry if you are a member. Where are you as we could talk online and compare notes.
Jack-
Was Margarets mothers maiden name Doran or Dovan?
Happy to share my tree with you also if you are a member of Ancestry. Where do you live?
Best regards to you both
Graeme
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Hello Jack - interestingly, Thomas Weir (b. 1790), younger brother of your ancestor David Weir (b. 1778) who married Margaret Hamilton, also married a Hamilton - Mary Hamilton. I wonder if these two brothers married two sisters, although I haven't researched the Hamilton families at all, so this could just be coincidence
Graeme, a few bits of info I have about James, husband of Jean Mitchell, and possible ancestors:
1. I have a photo of a gravestone in Cumnock, which I'm pretty certain belongs to this James. The text says "James Weir late in Auchingibert who died the 30 of June 1810 aged 72 years." This is a slight puzzle to me, as every reference I've seen to this James on forums has his year of birth as 1748, but an age of 72 years in 1810 would imply birth in 1738 or thereabouts. Of course, it could be that his age was recorded incorrectly on the stone
2. Thomas Weir's birth record from 1790 shows that James Weir and Jean Mitchell were living at Blackfaulds at that time
3. From 1798, a horse tax record showing James as living at Auchingibbert
4. A photo of a gravestone in the same cemetery as James's, with the following text "This is the [illegible] of John Weir who died June 18 1728. This stone was erected by John and David and James Weirs his sons". Clearly this John died before James was born, but he could still be an ancestor. Unless he died rather young, I don't think his son John is the same as the John you have as born in 1718, who in any case you say is probably the son of William Weir. However, he could be William Weir's father (maybe William wasn't involved in erecting the stone because he was in Antrim?) or one of the three sons mentioned on the stone could have been the father of the John born in 1718 (if the connection to William turns out to be wrong). Or he might not be in the direct line at all
5. Various other Weirs I found in parish registers for Old Cumnock but haven't been able to link to James:
- John Weir (b. 1704), son of John Weir and Janet Brown
- James Weir (b. 1727), son of Robert Weir
- John Weir (b. 1732), son of William Weir and Elspeth Samson
I'd be interested to hear about any documents you found linking James Weir to the John Weir born in 1718, as my inability to find records of James's birth or marriage has had me stumped for a long time.
I live in London, so no problems with time zones for talking online. I think I have an Ancestry account, but let the subscription lapse years ago, so I'll have to see if I can dig out the login details and reactivate it.
Kind regards,
John
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Good stuff. James one more post from you and we can converse with Personal messages and swap email addresses.
And possibly another direct Weir descendant into play.
cheers
Jack
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Sadly my direct Weir descendant contact details are no longer current.
Any David Hamilton Weir descendants of Gippsland [and elsewhere] feel free to join in.
Cheers
Jack Gee
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James - I cannot help you with the US conundrum.
Graeme - the name is Doran - send me an email and i will send you an article by a Weir researcher.
I have access to Ancestry [guest only ]but i would rather do emails.
Beware to Ancestry family trees lots of material opportunisticaly gathered and not proven.
cheers
Jack Gee
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Hi All, burning the midnight oil and a few bits of information and queries.
John, with ref to your post of 26/10/2012, you refer to David and William moving from Ayrshire to Argyll on the bid of the Duke of Argyll. What evidence do you have from the muck web site of the mention of your GGGrampa? do you have a hard copy I could get? I am sure I have B/M/D certs for some that show the farms they worked on mainland Argyll and on the Islands.
I have a photo of the grave stone for James Weir 1748-1810 (my 4xGGF) late of Auchengibbert, Old Cumnock. I agree their is a query on his age as it states he died aged 72 in 1810. making his birth 1738. It could be possible as his mother Agnes Hunter would have been about 17. can find no parish records for either B/M/D. I have copies of birth records for some of his children Marion 1793, Thomas 1790, David 1778, James 1776 my 3xGGF), Robert 1773, Janet 1770 also birth of his wife Jean Mitchel 1746-1825.
Regarding John Weir 1718-1788 My (My 5xGGF) his wife Agnes Hunter, I have a copy of his birth record from SP Parish records to a William Weir and Jean Good.
Regarding the marriage of David Weir to Margaret Hamilton and Thomas Weir to Mary Hamilton, according to my research Margaret and Mary were not sister.
It is worth visiting https://cumnockconnections.tribalpages.com which has an extensive database for families living in the Cumnock area.
Note When James Weir jnr married Agnes McCrone the parish records show the following:-
Marriage 29 Nov 1800 • Old Cumnock, Ayr, Scotland
James Weir junior, Auchingibbert and Agnes McCrone, Borland.
Agnes McCrone (1774–1858)
So James Weir snr was farming Auchengibbert in 1800 at the time of his sons marriage. this relates to the inscription on the gravestone and it is the right James Weir senior although his age appears to be wrong. Interesting that your horse tax record shows James Weir snr living at Auchengibbert in 1798.
I have the monumental inscriptions for Old Cumnock graveyard and can't find the stone you refer to in your item 4.
Must stop now too tired to be continued
Best regards
Graeme
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Hi,
I'm afraid the post of 26/10/2012 was a different John Weir, so we'll have to see whether he replies still.
The stone for the old John Weir is #258 in the monumental inscriptions document, which describes most of it as illegible. I guess I just tried harder! If you send me a direct message with your email address then I can send the photo if you're interested.
Best regards,
John
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In my records I have
The direct line of ancestry has been traced back to an entry in the Old Parish Records of Scotland.
David Weir of this parish (Old Cumnock) and Margaret Hamilton of Kirkconnell gave up
their names for proclamation on the 20th March 1802. Were regularly proclaimed immediately following Sabbath and no objections being offered were married on the 2nd
April 1802.
Unfortunately this record gives us no indication to the identity of David Weir's parents.
This is not an unusual occurrence. This record of the marriage is better than most as some
marriage records only contain a list of names putting forward their names for
proclamation.
Between their marriage date of 1802 and 1823 David and Margaret had six children.
Mary born 15th November 1805. The lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton
John born 7th December 1806. The lawful son of Davie Weir and Margaret Hamilton.
Jane born 26December 1812 lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton Margaret 17th February 1817 lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton
Sarah Weir born 1st February 1819 lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton of Waterside
Ann Weir born 26th May 1823 the lawful daughter of David Weir and Margaret Hamilton
The terminology "lawful” indicated that the parents were married. If not married the child would be referred to as "natural"
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You missed out
James, baptised 24 May 1803
Robert, baptised 17 October 1808
Alexander, baptised July 1814
William, baptised 26 May 1822
And there is a David, parents David Weir and Margaret, no surname given, baptised on 1 July 1812 in New Cumnock, whom you should perhaps investigate?
The family were at Waterhead, New Cumnock, in 1841: David, 60; Margaret, 60; Jane, 25; William, 20; Ann, 15; and a 3-year-old Robert and 5 servants including a 10-year-old Jane Weir. All born in Ayrshire.
I think James and Alexander may both have been still farming in Ayrshire in 1851.
So assuming that David's and Margaret's ages in the 1841 census are accurate, they were born between 8 June 1776 and 7 June 1781.
**IF** they followed the naming tradition, you would expect David's parents to be James and Jane, and Margaret's to be John and Mary. However they didn't name their third son David, so they may not have been following it.
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Hi Graeme
Sorry i have just read your message from march.
I will need to look at info my aunt gave me about them being on muck. Only hard evidence i have is from all the websites from the island and i went to the island open day one year with my aunt and cousin. On the island there is a monument to one of the families sons who died in a boating accident so they then moved to islay i believe because of this. I have some photos of them on islay if any one is interested.
John i see your middle name is with an L. Funny thing so is mine. my middle name is luke.
John Weir
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Hello Kilmichael,
keen to look at your connections between Islay and Cumnock.
As nothing in my Weir material mentions Islay.
But i do not have a comprehensive genealogy.
Feel free to add photos of monuments/known facts to this post to help us expand our understanding.
cheers
Jack Gee