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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: Smash Adams on Monday 23 January 12 09:08 GMT (UK)
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Hello!
I have a Great, Great Grandmother born in Cork in 1866. I have only managed to find her and her twin sister's birth records-
Mary Simpson Stirling born Queenstown 1866
Jane Cromar Stirling "
Father listed as John Stirling
Mother listed as Catherine Sophia Hughes
According to my Great Aunt, they came from a family of 22 children! (Family myth? Possibly) Any information anyone can provide about the Stirling's and their no doubt very large family will be greatly appreciated! ;D
PS: Mary Simpson Stirling went on to marry James Randall Doughty, an Englishman and Ship's Captain in Hackney London, 1891. I have since found a "John Stirling" listed in various Cork Directories as a Ship's Agent. Is there any way to verify whether my ancestor was indeed a ship's agent, any occupations listed anywhere?
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....
I have since found a "John Stirling" listed in various Cork Directories as a Ship's Agent. Is there any way to verify whether my ancestor was indeed a ship's agent, any occupations listed anywhere?
Birth certs for the children would show father's occupation
see : Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
Shane
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these are the BMD Index details you need to order a cert :
Name: Mary Simpson Stirling
Registration district: Cork
Event type: Birth
Year: 1866
Volume : 5 / Page : 247
The extracted records often include the page number, either in the place of birth, or sometimes as part of one of the reference fields.
see : Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Shane
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Hi there,
Is this possibly the family in 1901 ?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Queenstown_Urban/Scotts_Square/1139015/
Janes' marriage:
Name: Jane Cromer Stirling
Date : Jan-Feb-Mar 1904
District: Cork
Volume: 5
Page: 69
This appears to be her in 1911 with her husband a "Master Mariner"
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Queenstown_No__2_Urban/King_s_Terrace/406192/
This looks like Valentine's parents and his Dad was born 'at sea' - his Dad was on the 1851 scottish census - his father was also called Valentine and was in the Trent Royal Engineers (there is a lot on this family on ancestry) !
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Queenstown/Belvelly__part_of_/405386/
Defo looks like your family moved in shipping circles !
Hope this is of some use !
Tara
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Thanks to you both!
@ Tara, I also came across that 1901 census return. Possible it is the family, except if that is Jane Cromar on the return, they got her birth date wrong by 8 years ??? Brilliant info about Jane's husband, thanks!!
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Ah, sure I've had people on my tree out by 20 years - crazy !!
Maybe she was being 'kind' with her age in her single years :)
Her age does seem correct on the 1911 census though !
Tara
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Hi,
Had a look at my headstone database and found one for Stirling in "Old Clonmel Cemeterty" Cobh. Inscription as follows -
In/Memory of/James Stirling/ died/ 30th March 1883/ William Stirling/ died/
24th October 1940/aged 88 years/ "Till he come"/ Jane Cromar Mairis/died/
11th August 1945/ " Thy will be done"
This certainly seems to belong to your ancestors. It is quite difficult to read.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Hi Mary, thank you for your reply! James and William are new names to me :D That's great! Is it one inscription, ie: a family plot?? Or separate graves?
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Hi
The William matches up to be the one on the census that I mentioned before
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Queenstown_Urban/Scotts_Square/1139015/
Tara
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Hi.
I am going to try and post a photo of the headstone here. I have minimised it and hopefully it is small enough.
Mary
Celtic liberty
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Oh how great to see the actual stone, thank you Mary! I do find it quite odd that Jane would wish to be buried with two of her (I think) brothers, and not with her husband. ??? And why only those three, why not their parents too, hmmmm...
@Tara- Yes! It must be the same William, only bummer being I can't find a birth record as yet for him, Maria from 1901 census, or this mysterious James. But thanks to the census I know William and Maria were definately born in Cork, so that's a good start :)
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This looks like the death of Catherine
Name: Catherine Stirling
District: Cork
Event Type: DEATHS
Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1904
Est Birth Year: 1824
Volume: 5
Page: 167
Tara
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That looks like it, thanks Tara! So that also helps to confirm the 1901 census :) Any sign of her husband John anywhere? I can't find him anywhere other than Mary and Jane's birth record.
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This is the only one that I can see BUT it would have made his children VERY young when he died - was this ever mentioned in the family ?
Also, It's possible that this isn't him and that your John's death wasn't registered !
name: John Stirling
District: Cork
Event: DEATHS
Year: 1875
est birth year: 1816
age (at death): 59
volume : 10
page : 164
Tara
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Nothing is known about John at all! Apart from the fact that he supposedly was the father of 22 children!! So it's possible that record may be him. I'm pretty certain that Mary and Jane were the youngest of the family- I mean Catherine their mother would have been about 42 when they were born, so it's unlikely she would have had more children after them. And the date of birth for John 1816 matches ties up nicely with his wife Catherine's of 1824... I think that may well be him Tara :)
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http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/streetandtradedirectories/1875-76citycountyguys/pages290to361/GuysAlmanac1875Pages290%20to%20295.pdf
Have you see this above - John Stirling is listed as a Ship's Agent in Scott's Square - the same address that we have his family in 1901
I think you can safely say that is the same family and that he was defo a ship's agent
I suppose if you now start researching ship's agents - there must be a lot of trade directories that he is in !
His son William was also a forwarding agent for L & NW Railway Agent and lived or had his buiness at Westbourne Place - he is listed on this below
http://www.failteromhat.com/guy/queenstown.htm
http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/streetandtradedirectories/1907guyscitycountyalmanacanddirectory/1907pages398to477/GuysCorkAlmanac1907Pages422%20to%20429.pdf
there are a few Stirlings mentioned in this one at Westbourne Place in 1871
http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/places/streetandtradedirectories/1871fultonscityofcorkqueenstowndirectory/1871queenstowncommercialsection/Pages%20311%20to%20318%20from%20Guys%20Cork%20Almanac%201871_Comp.pdf
Tara
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Also found this sad one :(
This is obviously the child that is referenced on Jane's 1911 census
name: Valentine H J Mairis
District: Cork
event : DEATHS
quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1908
volume : 5
page : 148
This is his birth !
name: Valentine Henry John Mairis
District: Cork
event : BIRTHS
quarter and year: Oct - Dec 1907
volume : 5
page : 148
Her husband's baptism - Look at the cool name his Dad had !
parents: Valentine Poole De Merisco Mairis, Fanny Barnes
name: Valentine Albert James Mairis
baptism : 10 Aug 1868
place: 0120,CORK NO 1 NORTH EAST,CORK,CORK,IRELAND
father's name: Valentine Poole De Merisco Mairis
mother's name: Fanny Barnes
Tara
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So my suspicions about John Stirling as a ship's agent are correct! Thank you for confirming that Tara :) My Gr-Gr-Grandfather (he married Mary) was a ship's Captain and travelled to Cork in the 1870's, so I figured that's how he must have become acquainted with the Stirling's.
Time to trawl the directories :D
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Valentine Poole De Merisco Mairis- what a brilliant name :D
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Jane's hubby's death & will:
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar
Valentine Mairis
Probate Date: 2 Dec 1937
Death : 14 Oct 1937 Cork, Ireland
Registry: London
Just googling the name his grandfather was a Major in the army - he was born in 1786 and was living in Wells, Somerset in 1861 with his son Henry Mairis 'who was in the Holy Orders' . There is a Major Valentine Mairis briefly mentioned in this link :
http://www.baumanrarebooks.com/rare-books/82961.aspx
MAIRIS (as borne by Major VALENTINE
MAIRIS, of Marston, Wilts, the descendant
of an ancient Baronial family, De Mareys,
or De Marisco, reduced by the Wars of the
Roses, and other causes, originally seated
at Huntspill, and Gamely, co. Somerset).
Good Luck,
Tara
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Hi - 22 children you say and we reckon that we have one of them in our Family Tree -
CATHERINE (Kate) SOPHIA STIRLING
bn abt 1859 at Queenstown
Married - 1st July 1886 at Q/town under the name Catherine Stirling
Father - John Stirling - occ - Merchant
Witnesses - William Stirling and S. Hughes LOANE
Spouse - Alfred John CLEMENCE - occ - Master Mariner
Other possible children of 22 (makes your eyes water just thinking about it) -Mary Anne Stirling - bn maybe abt 1855 (no proof)
Margaret Stirling - bn maybe abt 1857 (no proof)
Elizabeth Hughes Stirling - bn maybe abt 1863 (no proof)
Other known children of 22
William Stirling - abt 1852
Jane Cromer Stirling - 9/2/1866
Mary Simpson Stirling - 9/2/1866
Interesting that 2 of the girls married Master Mariners!
Hope the foregoing helps - thanks to all for your input - we look forward to further news
Veryan
:)
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Further info-
James Randall Doughty married Mary Simpson Stirling on the 18th March 1891 at St John Church, Hackney, Middx - James was 41 and a Master Mariner whilst Mary was 25 and a Spinster, at that time James was living at 6 Five Elms Terrace, Clapton and his Father was Randall James Doughty.
James and Mary had 3 children that I am aware of one of whom died. The 2 known were -
1) Beecholm Bawnmore Mona Doughty bn 9/12/1892 chr 16/1/1893
2) James Randall Doughty bn 23/2/1894 chr 6/5/1894
Both were bn in Hoddesdon, Herts. I think James jnr. may have ended up in Australia
The rest of the family I have no further info. on
Veryan
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Hi Veryan, thank you for the mesages :D
I am having a hard time finding all these Stirling children, so your info has been a great help.
Firstly, in the 1871 Cork Directory I found under "Confectioners" the following:
Stirling E & M, 16 Westbourne Place (the same address as Stirling and Co. Ship's Agents)
From your information this could possibly be Elizabeth and Margaret ???, running a little confectionery from their father's premises! Their brother William was also working from there as a brewer for Sir. John Arnotts Stores.
Secondly, there is the possibility of another child James as per Mary's post of the tombstone, who died in 1883.
And another daughter Maria, as per 1901 / 1911 Census born 1864 / 1872.
With regards to your information about the Doughty's I know a fair bit- Beecholm Bawnmore Mona Doughty (everybody called her Mona :)) was my Gr-Grandmother. I have info on her and her father especially, if you would like it.
Her brother James Jr. did end up in Australia! I don't know much about him other than that. I see my Great Aunt fairly often, she is Mona's daughter and will be sure to ask her about James Jr.
I was not aware of another child however who died in infancy!
Thanks again :)
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Hi Smash,
I've just been having a closer look at the headstone very kindly shown earlier - I have a suspicion that the first name is possibly not James but more likely to be JANET dd. 30 March 1883. Mind I've had to blow the screen up by 400% and 2 of us looking at it - what convinced us is the width of an M lower down and the T in the Stirling name as apposed to the S in the surname.
If you agree we've gained a girl and lost a boy!!!!
:-\ ::)
Veryan
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Do you know Veryan, I had a close look when Mary first posted that pic and thought I could see Jane as opposed to James, so I think you could be right! ;D
Is that a record you found, for Janet "dd. 30 March 1883"?
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I am laughing as I am reading your posts, losing a boy and gaining a girl!!!
I am sorry if I misled you with my transcription of my photo. I have been studying it
again myself ( blown it up to 400% also) and it does seem like the last letter is not an "S" and what I thought was an M when you compare it to the M in William - it does look like Janet.
That name might make more sense to you.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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No worries Mary, it's an easy mistake to make :)
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HI Smash,
The date of "Janet's" death is actually on the headstone - what is annoying is that not one of the names shows the age of the person who died, 'cos we could have the done the backwards calc.
Oh well, as the vicar said to the sexton - "keep digging".
By the way has anyone had an input on John Stirling and Catherine Sophia Hughes, vis-a-vie where born, married, parents etc?
Veryan
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HI Mary,
As Smash has said - don't worry - we won't tell!!
Personally, I dislike trying to read Headstones at the best of times.
Nope, Janet means nothing to me but I wonder if Smash's Gt Aunt has any further input - Family Bible may be or certificates, photo's, letters.
Methinks I'll have to start a draft family tree with dates so we can see where birth gaps occur and then start hunting - 22, I wonder how many twins?
By the way Mary, I hope you didn't hurt your sides?
Veryan
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:)
Thought I would make your day - another girl found-
ELLEN STIRLING birth details unknown except for being bn in Q/town.
However, she married at St Magdalene Church, Old Fish Street, London on the 7th Nov 1880 and gave her abode as 17 Westbourne Place, Q/town
Father- John Stirling Dec'd. Spouse was HENRY WHITNEY Master Mariner birth details not n/k except abode is given as St.Georges, London - Father- Henry Whitney also a M.M. Witnesses were CATHERINE STIRLING (who I suspect is Kate) and EDWARD WILLIAM LOANE (I'm not sure who the LOANE family are but they have appeared before in connection with the Stirling family ie S Hughes LOANE was a witness at the wedding of Kate S and Alfred Clemence).
I have been unable to further track Ellen and Henry apart from the possibility of them appearing in the 1900 USA Census to which I don't have full access- if any one else can look please advise us of their findings.
I'm heading for bed - Happy reading
Veryan
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Hey Veryan,
Great find about Ellen! As far as I can work out, the Loane's were also a family of ship's agents in Queenstown. In fact, if memory serves correct in one of the Cork Directories, they were listed as a joint company- "Stirling and Loane". I'll find it again to give us a year, but it was only the one listing of them together.
My Gr Aunt doesn't know much about the Stirlings' I'm afraid, especially in terms of certificates / bibles etc. But I will glean her for info the next time we chat, she might remember some bits!
PS: If Mary and Jane (the twins) were the youngest born in 1866, we can at least narrow Janet's DOB down to between 1845?-1865. I can't find Catherine and John's marriage / birth anywhere! 1901 census gives Catherine's birth at +- 1824
Not a lot of choice it would seem, in the way of potential husbands. You can have a Master Mariner, or a Master Mariner :D
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Hey Peeps,
So I've found the following in Cork and County Directories.
1867 Henry and Cochlan's Directory
Stirling and Loane- Commission, Insurance and Ship Agents. 17 Westbourne Place
John Stirling- Scotts Square
1871-
Stirling and Co.- Shipping Agents 16 Westbourne Place
E & M Stirling- Confectioners 16 Westbourne Place
William Stirling- Agent for Sir John Arnott porter stores (brewer) 16 Westbourne Place
(Edward Loane and Son. Shipping and commission agents, examiners and superintendents of grain and seed cargo. Scotts Square).
1875-
John Stirling- Shipping Agent Scotts Square
1881-
Stirling and Co. Scotts Square
1891-
William Stirling- Carrier Agent Westbourne Place
1907
William Stirling- Forwarding Agent Westbourne Place
Mrs. Mairis (Jane Cromar)- Lodging/ Boarding House Kings Terrace
--------------------------------------
The death record Tara found for John Stirling was 1875, which clashes with the listing in 1881. Maybe a son in law was running the business, or perhaps it's the wrong man, who knows? Either way, I can't find any Stirling's in 1884, then William crops back up in 1891 but no more Stirling and Co.
I have a hunch the Loane's were involved possibly maritally with the Stirling's, hmmmmm...
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I think I may have found the Stirling- Loane connection!
Edward Loane married Ellen Hughes 1842, Clonmel.
One child I know of
Samuel Hughes Loane born 1846- Ship's Agent! (1901 / 1911 Census)
This will be the "S. Hughes Loane" listed as one of the witnesses to the marriage of Kate Stirling and Alfred Clemence in Queenstown 1886.
Ellen Hughes perhaps sister to Catherine Sophia Stirling, nee Hughes? ???
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Found following marriage info for Elizabeth Hughes Stirling:
THORPE-STIRLING - July 28. at the parish church, Queenstown, by the Rev.
Charles Clarke, chaplin of H M S Revenge, John, youngest son of Edward
Thorpe, Liverpool, to Elizabeth Hughes, daughter of the late John Sterling.
Cork Examiner 1881
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I was looking up my Irish family tree and noticed this post re: Mona Doughty. Mona was my paternal grandmother and she was married to Arthur Cornwallis Tiddy (d 1951). They lived in Cape Town (South Africa) and Mona died in 1973. Mona and Arthur had three children - Claude Julian (my father, d. 1986); Alastair James (Missing is action in RAF operations in Burma in 1944) and Elizabeth, who still lives in Cape Town.
Mona used to manage an art gallery in Cape Town and was instrumental in establishing the artist Vladimir Tretchikoff.
As a child, I recall Mona talking of her father, James Randall Doughty and her mother, who was also an accomplished mariner. James owned two 4-masted Barques - the Jeannie Woodside and the Beecholm and used to carry coal out of Barry, Wales. On one voyage, the ship officers and crew were very ill (not sure of the ailment), but Mary took over command from James and brought the ship back without incident. The very grateful Lloyds insurers presented her with a certificate of appreciation, which she tore up in disgust. She sounded quite a feisty lady who took no nonsense from anyone! When I was in ships, I used the sextant belonging to James and it is still in the family with my aunt Elizabeth, as are two paintings of the Jeannie Woodside and Beecholm.
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Then that makes you my Uncle :D
Hello... Alistair?
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Hi Smash,
Yes I am Alastair James Tiddy - named after my uncle who was killed in Burma.
I now live in Sydney, Australia having emigrated here in 1989.
Where do you link into the Doughty/Tiddy family tree?
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I'm your niece dumbo! :D Your sister's child- Ashleigh!
Nice to know I'm not the lone ranger when it comes to researching our family tree :) I have a whole hoard of info about the Doughty's if you would like / need it!
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Mmmmm... was trying to figure it out who "Smash Adams" was, thinking that you might be based in UK - but of course - my sister's daughter! How could I miss it? Silly me.
Thanks for the offer of material on the Doughtys as this would be welcome especially since I have heaps of material on the Tiddy's of Cornwall. Just use my usual email address.
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Righto! Just give me a little while to type it up and I'll send through.
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:) Glad to learn that Uncle and Niece have at last resolved their "handles"!!!!! :)
Sorry to have been off line for a while, have been very busy on family matters.
Regarding the question of John S. and Catherine Sophia - if we follow logic (loosely that is) and we roughly know that Catherine was bn. abt. 1824 then the possibility is that she may have married John when she was abt. 18 which puts that date at abt. 1842. Allow a year for H.hmmm "practice" which could mean that their 1st bn. was abt. 1843/4. It is generally acknowledged that the 1st. child is named after the Paternal Grandfather if its a boy and Maternal G/mother if a girl. The next is usually after the parents. Hence, Mother is Catherine Sophia and dr. is the same but nicknamed Kate (she who married into the Clemence line). So it follows that somewhere there is a John (may have died young!). James may be named after John Snr's. father? If there is a John jnr. then this may account for the disparity in John snr's death and the subsequent 1881 record?
Food for thought!
Veryan
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Hi Veryan,
Great to hear from you again :) And thanks for the info, I will see what I can find using your train of thought!
I've just had a quick scroll down and realised that I have not transcribed my latest info!
Daughter Elizabeth Hughes Stirling who married John Thorpe is listed on the 1900, 1910 & 1920 US Census!
1900 in Baltimore City, Maryland
Born- Jul 1857 Ireland
Marital- Married
(The Biggie!) Father's Birthplace- SCOTLAND!! My suspicions were correct! Hurrah! ;D
Mother's Birthplace- Ireland
Immigration Year- 1889
Children- 7 born, 4 living
Sadly it doesn't list her husband John's occupation.
1910 in Santurce, San Juan, Puerto Rico
Born- 1858 Ireland
Marital- Widowed
Relationship to Head- Mother
She was living in the household of her eldest son Edward J. Sterling Thorpe, with her daughters Francis (born 1888 Belgium) and Lillian (born 1895 Maryland)
1920 in New York City
Head of household, living with three daughters- Katherine born 1886 Ireland
- Mary F born 1892 Belgium
- Norah S born 1895 Maryland
The Stirling's of Scotland, go figure ;) I've always wondered whether the youngest twin daughter's Mary Simpson and Jane Cromar were given Scottish family middle-names??
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Think I may have found birth for Catherine Sophia Stirling, nee Hughes.
Cath. Hughes
Christened 27 Sep 1824, Mallow Parish, Cork
Father- John (Jn.)
Mother- Mary
Also listed, a twin?
James Hughes
Christened 27 Sep 1824, Mallow Parish, Cork
Father- John
Mother- Mary
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Found Ellen Whitney nee Stirling on the 1900 US Census as per Veryan's post a few pages back.
Living in Brooklyn New York
Born :Aug 1846 Ireland
Father's Birthplace: Scotland
Immigration year: 1873
Husband Henry's birthplace listed as Canada.
Two sons, William (16 yrs) and Joseph (17 yrs) both born in Ireland. :)
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Very many congrats Smash :)
Let me throw another thought or two into the melting pot - have you noticed that several of the daughters married Master Mariners? (and not a sailor or soldier bearing in mind the importance of Queenstown). I wonder therefore, if John Snr. himself was a MM possibly before becoming a Merchant? Also, there is a record of a John S bn 30th March 1798 in Lamlash, Bute, Scotland.
My other thought is that as John appeared to be a prominent figure in Q/town his passing would more than likely have been reported in the local papers and perhaps have given his age as well.
Perhaps Catherine Sophia can be traced on passenger or "crew" lists. not forgetting several of her son-in-laws were MMs
??? ???
veryan
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Hi Veryan,
Thanks for the thoughts. I must admit that many of them had crossed my mind too! :) I have tried Lloyd's Register of Captains, where I have found my Doughty's before, but if I'm not mistaken the letter "S" was not transcribed. I will look again.
I did a quick search now which brought up a John Stirling born 1808 / 1818 Forfarshire, listed in the Merchant Navy Seamen Records, with service between the dates 1845-1854 ???
The only mention I can find of a likely Stirling in Queenstown, is in the Cork Examiner 22 October 1863-
"A FIRE which might have borne very fatal consequences, but which was fortunately discovered in time to prevent serious injury, occurred on Wednesday evening in the house of Captain Stirling at Queenstown. A servant had carelessly left a night light burning on a wooden mantel-piece in a bed room where some children were asleep. The light having burned down set fire to the timber which blazed up. A chimney glass which stood above it was next caught by the flame, and it cracked and broke and fell with a loud crash. It was this noise which providentially attracted the attention of the servants who were below stairs, in time to rescue the sleeping children, and to have measures taken for the suppression of the fire."
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Accounts and papers of the House of Commons 1868 (Hurrah for Google Books)
Lays out the various laws regarding pilotage ie:
"Every pilot shall procure at his own expense a jacket waistcoat and trousers of good blue cloth with gilt buttons having the Cork arms in relief on the buttons and of which there shall be 12 on the jacket and six on the waistcoat and he shall always wear that dress when on duty or out of doors and no pilot shall appear on duty or out of doors unless dressed according to the requirements of this bye law."
Branched Captains of Steam Ships for the Port of Cork
John Stirling aged 34 ;D
-----------------------------------------
THE MERCANTILE NAVY LIST AND MARITIME DIRECTORY FOR 1867
Name of Ship and Port of Registry
"Hants, Cork" - weird name ???
Name and Address of Sole Registered Owner or of Managing Owner when there are more Owners than One
"John Stirling, Queenstown, Cork" ;D
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Hi Smash,
Curious - if John was 34 in 1868 then he was bn. abt 1834 some 10 yrs. after Catherine!!!! cradle snatching or he preferred older women.
Regarding the Merchant ship "Hants" - this was a Whitby Brig whose cargo was grain when it sank in 1865 at Ballycotton (just round the corner from Cobh) - I believe that she had set sail from Odessa. I don't know if afterwards another ship carried the same name.
TTFN Veryan
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HI Smash,
Happy New Year to you and all who are helping to build the picture.
I do have have a complication to resolve in that I am in contact with a David whose wife is linked in with James Randall Doughty and he is seeking more info.on the line which I know is your forte - can you suggest a way whereby I can put the two of you in contact with each other?
He is on Ancestry but not Rootschat - mind I had the dickens of a job finding my way round this new layout.
Regards
Veryan :)
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Hi Veryan,
Happy New Year to you too! I agree regarding the new layout, took me half a day to find 'reply' ;D
I don't have any info online but I will happily share what I have about the Doughty's with David via email :) He can contact me at- *
Until we crack another Stirling mystery, chat soon!
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy, to protect against spamming and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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:)Hi Smash,
Well the idea was OK but has been kicked into touch by "the Moderator" - the dictat is to send me a PM (I very nearly started blushing :-[ ) - Personal Message, which can be found from the Home Page. Look forward to receiving same and putting you in touch.
TTFN
Veryan
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Just had a thought Smash,
How many children are we up to now? 'cos I thought that 22 was pushing it but a couple of TV programs I have watched lately have approached this figure or equaled it.
G/night
Veryan
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Hi Veryan, have sent the PM!
I'm not so sure they actually had as many as 22 to be honest. My Gr- Aunt always says so, but I think it could just be a family story. James Randall Doughty was supposedly engaged to the eldest Stirling daughter and knew Mary as an infant, before waiting until she was of age and marrying her instead, but according to birth records there's only about a 13 year age gap? So it may have all been blown out of proportion somewhat...but maybe I'll be proved wrong!
Well we've defo got-
Catherine jnr
Ellen
Elizabeth
William
Mary
Jane
Possibly-
Janet (headstone)
Margaret
Mary- Ann
A fair number nonetheless :)
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Okay wait, I've just had a proper look at my birth records and realise I've been telling lies. James Randall Doughty was born in 1849 and Mary Simpson Stirling 1866, which makes a 17 year age gap, so perhaps the family story is correct after all ;)
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Not you, telling porkies! - :-X
I find it darn difficult to keep Brenda's (my wife) and my family all together in my mind, and as for dates - forget it.
Now where was I?
'Oh' yes - you are thinking that your Gt.Aunt may now be right, if so, I have great (no pun intended) admiration for Catherine Sophia S, Snr. Makes the research a bit of a challenge though.
However. as we are fairly sure as to the family Church I wonder if it is worth consideration to contact them to see if they can help with our efforts?
TTFN
Veryan
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Hi
Interesting to see this name on your site:
Valentine Poole De Merisco Mairis
I am currently trying to research this family and to see if any descentants remain in Ireland or elsewhere
This family lived in Rosemount House in farran approx 1870 - 1882 approx
I have this info
Marriage of VALENTINE MAIRIS and JANE STIRLING
on 10 February 1904, Master Mariner, 1 Kings Terrace, Cobh
one baby son did not survive :(
Birth of VALENTINE MAIRIS on 05 November 1907
Death of VALENTINE MAIRIS in 1908, no other children in 1911 census
Trying to find out more about the children of
Valentine Poole De Merisco Mairis
Well done for this info on Stirling's Cobh, thanks, Roger
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Edward Henry St Clair Mairis
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3901101
married 1901 to Elizabeth Nolan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10328/5759902.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kildare/Newbridge/Matthews_Court/1443230/
1903 son Frederick born and died
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01880/1731725.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05655/4592114.pdf
1911 South Africa says he was born Kilrea,Co Cork 1878
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VH-8Q2
may have 3 further children
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ks1/
1901 as E M
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ks2/
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Many thanks Dathai for all your helpful information, every Mairis in the irish census and birth marriage and death records are the same family from Rosemount, in the 1911 census they said they had 11 children, 8 still living, I now have these names: Edward, Fannie, Irene, Florence, Frederick, Valentine, Rosalie, Ruly.... they lived in 6 Vernon Ros St Lukes before Rosemount, 5 Mt Vernon Row after Rosemount and then Belvelly Coby with the son V, I wonder if any descendants still living in Ireland.... Thanks again for your help, my research is on Rosemount House and the people who lived there, I now can go from 1870 to date:
Valentine Poole De Merisco Mairis, Rosemount, 1870 - 1882, William Good 1882 - 1891, William A Stoakes 1892 - 1913, Thomas William Good 1913 - 1923, Denis Russell 1923 - 1970, Ross Corbett 1970 - 1972, Michael Hegarty 1972 - 1974, Jerry Wrixon 1974 - 1989, P C 1989 - to date... I am a Russell Gt Grandson & Grandson.... Kind regards, Roger
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Hello from California,
I am the great grandson of Marian "Polly" Woodside whose daughter, Jeannie Woodside, died in 1903 as a result of a riding accident in California. The barque, Jeannie Woodside, was named after her; and was built by her father William John Woodside in Belfast. I happened upon a post on this website that mentioned the later ownership of the ship and that a painting of ship exists. I would appreciate any further information you can supply; and I am happy to provide additional information about Jeannie's family and their colorful history in Belfast and sailing around the world. Incidentially, the barque "Polly" Woodside, named after Jeannie's mother, is still afloat as part of the Maritime Museum in Melbourne, Australia.
I may have an opportunity to be in Cork for a couple of days this coming July, 2018; and I would welcome meeting anyone who would like to share family lore and tales of life at sea in the late 19th Century.
Cheers
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Tonight I looked at images of Cork vital registrations for Catherine Stirling's death in 1904. Record said she died of Pneumonia at home at Westbourne Place. Informant was William Stirling. She was 80 and died on 22 February, 1904. Catherine was born in Mallow, Cork, Ireland and her father was John Hughes and her mother was Margaret Farmar/Farmer. (parents were not listed on her death record - I cobbled that information from FamilySearch.com).
William Stirling (son) died of Angina Pectoris at age 88 in Cobh, Cork, Ireland which made his birth likely 1852. Jane Cromar Maris (his sister) was the informant of his death.
Margaret Stirling married Bryce Stewart Gay in Queenstown 8 March, 1875. Witnesses were John Stirling Jr. (Father?) and William Stirling. By the way, the couple had a daughter Katie Gay born elsewhere in Ireland. Bryce died in Gibraltar. I have no further record of Margaret or Katie Gay.
I am a descendant of John Stirling and Catherine Sophia Hughes. My Great Grandfather was the younger son born 1857 in Queenstown. He immigrated to the USA and married/divorced there. He had worked briefly as a First Officer for the Scottish Anchor Shipping Lines. He later became a sales man for a manufacturing company in the USA. He always told family and officials he was from Scotland! It took me 20 years of research to uncover his origins. I hope the above information is helpful to all who are researching the family.
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To the best of my genealogical research ability I have determined these children of John Stirling and Catherine Sophia Hughes had children with descendants:
George Stirling (USA from 1884- present)
Margaret Stirling (Mrs. Bryce Stewart Gay in Ireland but Bryce died in Gibraltar and I do not know if Kate Hughes Gay had children)
Ellen Stirling, Mrs. John Thorpe (Brussels, then USA in North Carolina)
Elizabeth Stirling, Mrs. Henry Whitney (New York, USA)
Catherine Sophia Stirling, Mrs. Alfred Clemence (In England)
Mary Simpson Stirling, Mrs. Doughtey (In England but also perhaps South Africa, and Australia)
Please forgive any spelling errors here.
Some of us older cousins may be Third Cousins to living descendants. This is preliminary research and I do not want to cause privacy issues so I stopped at this point with the exception of these posts and one communication via another genealogy site.
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Has anyone found the grave sites for Catherine Sophia Hughes Stirling or John Stirling yet there in County Cork, Ireland? I have not seen much of anything in my recent genealogical research.
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A dam and lake in the United States of America, was originally named for a grandson of Catherine Sophia Hughes and John Stirling. His mother was Ellen Stirling Thorpe. His full name was John Edward Stirling Thorpe. J.E.S. Thorpe was an Engineer and executive with ALCOA a leading American Aluminum manufacturer. He also was a designer of hydro-electric generating dams.
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William Stirling (son) died of Angina Pectoris at age 88 in Cobh, Cork, Ireland which made his birth likely 1852. Jane Cromar Maris (his sister) was the informant of his death.
Death record....#493
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04713/4258782.pdf
Name: Catherine Stirling
District: Cork
Event Type: DEATHS
Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1904
Est Birth Year: 1824
Volume: 5
Page: 167
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05632/4584609.pdf
Name: John Stirling
District: Cork
Event: DEATHS
Year: 1875
est birth year: 1816
age (at death): 59
volume : 10
page : 164
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020618/7233932.pdf
KG
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Many thanks. I also am hoping to find out where Catherine Sophia Hughes, and husband John Stirling, are buried and if they have gravestone monuments. Again, thank you for the vital records here.
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Here is the grave of Ellen Stirling, Mrs. Whitney. Daughter of John Stirling and Catherine Sophia Hughes. Courtesy of findagrave.com <https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/149568823/ellen-whitney> In the New York City area, USA in the Evergreen Cemetery.
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The actual link-
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/149568823/ellen-whitney
KG
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Thank you Kiltaglassan for all you do. Thanks for making the link to the New York cemetery grave of Mrs. Whitney easily readable here.
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There are some records for Catherine Stirling in the Ireland Petty Sessions Court Registers for Queenstown Court;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK3H-B8QP
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK3H-TGL1
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK3H-TGGM
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK3H-BCZF
And a "Kate Sterling"
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK3H-YC2L
Need Find My Past credits to view the original images though :-\
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This is a page concerning a lake that was originally named for Ellen Stirling's son J.E.S.Thorpe of the ALCOA Corporation in the USA. The link cannot be made here on Rootsweb but you can type in the address into Google or another search engine for this. <https://theblueridgehighlander.com/lakes_thorpe_reservoir_jackson_county_north_carolina.php>
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In my recent genealogy research into my Stirling ancestors there in Cobh/Queenstown/Cove of Cork, I came across a probate notice for a Maria Stirling who's estate was probated in 1843 in Cove of Cork which is now Cobh. I am thinking this Maria may be either John's mother or John's sister. Any ideas?
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Here are the links to Maria Stirling's probate indexes-
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/dw/details.jsp?id=303004
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/dw/details.jsp?id=307036
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Many thanks for the index image link for Maria Stirling who's probate was held in Dec. 1843. I appreciate all.