RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: wrjones on Wednesday 25 January 12 16:01 GMT (UK)
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I'm looking for the birth and/or death of an Arthur C S Pugh who married my probable relative an Ethel M Hughes at Oswestry in 1920.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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There's a birth on freebmd for him in 1900 - have you seen it
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Thanks,I can see it now.I must have looked with my eyes closed earlier!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Can't see any death though - at least not under his full initials
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No I can't see one either.I have found a death for Ethel Maude consistent with her birth,in Lewisham in 1978.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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hi, my friends ancestor was Ethel Maud Hughes and she married an Arthur Pugh but she was born in Oswestry.
She had another marriage to Gilbert Smith in 1939
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Thanks Dandalady,yes in all this it is the Ethel Maud Hughes who is my relative.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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If that is the same Ethel Maud Hughes - she re-married in 1939 to Gilbert Smith.
That would mean Arthur died pre-1939 and the 1978 death in Lewisham is not her
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Yes Carole,since I posted this I found the further info about the re-marriage to Gilbert Smith.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hello
My Nan was Ethel Maud Hughes and she was married to Arthur Charles Pugh. The story in our family is that Arthur walked out on her, he suffered from malaria, caught during service in the First World War,his temper was short and they had disagreements Ethel was living at Ivy Cottage, Wootton at the time with her widowed grandmother, Ann Hughes, and her first child my Aunty Maud ( christened Harriet Rosa Maud) and another baby, my Aunty Dolly,( Dora Ivy- after Ivy Cottgae) on the way. Years later, (no contact with Arthur Charles and none attempted, I think- no financial maintainance for the children either), Ethel ( Hetty) married my step grandad, Gilbert Smith, a widower with six children. It was originally a marriage of convenience, but they both grew to love each other My Nan and step grandad both died in 1968 and are buried in Whittington cemetery.
I would like to have known what happened to Arthur Charles Pugh, whether he ever returned home( Ebbw Vale) or went abroad.
J.M.
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Thanks J.M.,and first of all a very warm welcome to Rootschat!The story you picture of the life of Ethel Maud Hughes is both a sad one but also the story of a devoted mother who struggled to do her very best for her children.It is also a sad example of the social history of the time.
So you believe Arthur C S Pugh was born in Ebbw Vale?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Yes. I have a reason for that. But first please satisfy my curiosity as to how you are related to my Nan Ethel Maud?
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Hello again
If we grant a life span of say 86 years to Charles Arthur Pugh, a good innings, that would mean there should be a record of death anytime between 1924/25 when he disappeared and 1986.
He could have gone abroad or stayed in England under an assumed name. What happened when people disappeared in the 1920s? Was there a police search,( there may be a record of disappearance) or if the relatives did not report it, no one bothered to look? Perhaps he had ill treated my Nan , and she did not care to have him back. I would have thought his own relatives in Ebbw Vale would have made enquiries after him.
His mother lived in Ebbw Vale we think because my Aunty Maud, his and my Nan's first and eldest daughter, born 1921, had a postcard of a very severe looking old lady , all in black, a photo of Charles' mother on the back of which she wrote enquiring about the new baby( My Aunty Maud) and it was was franked Ebbw Vale 1921.
J M
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You will know perhaps that Ethel Maud Hughes was the daughter of Maud Hughes born in Oswestry(1873-1899) and an unknown father.This Maud was the daughter of Robert Hughes born in Ruabon Denbighshire in 1837 and his wife Ann Humphreys born in Whittington in c 1840.Robert Hughes was in turn the son of a Robert Hughes born in Llansantfraid Denbighshire in 1812 and his fisrst wife Lydia Madeley who was born and died in Ruabon(1814-1838).Lydia Madeley was the daughter of a Thomas Madeley born in shropshire in c 1780 and his wife an Elizabeth Griffiths born in Erbistock Denbighshire in 1785.Elizabeth Griffiths was the daughter of a William Griffiths born in Erbistock in 1756 and his wife a Mary Davies born in Erbistock in 1755.William Griffiths was the son of a Richard Griffiths and a Catherine Davies both born in the Erbistock area in c 1720.Among Richard and Catherine's other children was a Samuel Griffiths born in Erbistock in 1745 from whom I am descended.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I'll keep looking for Arthur C S Pugh.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I'm not finding a death for an Arthur or Charles Pugh that meets the eye.Have you any whisper what the third initial may have stood for?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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A fresh angle on this would be to try and obtain Arthur C S Pugh's First World War service record.You state that he caught malaria during the war,this must have been somewhere in the tropics?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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The "s" initial was either Sydney or Stanley. I did Know , but haven't revsisted him in the Family Tree for a long while. I will let you know if I can find out which it is for certain. I don't know where he was posted in the War. My eldest Aunty, Maud, his daughter who died in 2005 had some small memories of him , but once he deserted the Family , my Nan never spoke of him again.
JM
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There wasn't any obvious deaths with almost any name beginning with S in the time scale considering his birth in 1901.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Thank you for looking. Perhaps I should write to a local newspapaer in Ebbw Vale and see if any Pugh families recall an Arthur Pugh relation who suffered with malaria. My friend has suggested that Arthur Charles Pugh may have married again himself.
Regards
June
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The newspaper idea is certainly worth trying.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Arthur C.S. Pugh's mother in law/ Ethel Maud's grandmother was Ann Humphreys( maiden name). Do you or does anyone have any info on Ann Humphreys father, Thomas Humphreys and his family? I think he was from Llansanffraid.
Thanks
J.M
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Ann Hughes(Humphreys) was buried as you may know at Oswestry 18/07/1922.Her year of birth is given consistently as c 1840 in Whittington in Shropshire.The closest match I can find before she was married is an Ann Humphreys given as born in Whittington in c 1847 in the 1851 Census-HO107/1993/381/12.
This Ann is given as the daughter of a Thomas Humphreys born in Llansilin Denbighshire in c 1804 and his wife Margaret given as born in c 1805 in "Osbaston" Shropshire.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Robert Hughes marriage is given to an Anne Humphreys in 1860,I believe at Trefonen Shropshire.Their first child was a Lydia Hughes born in Oswestry in 1861.This Lydia is showing in the 1861 Census with mother Ann Hughes given as born in Whittington in c 1840 but she given as the Grandaughter of a Thomas Humphreys given as born in Llanrhaiadr Montgomeryshire in c 1805 and his wife Margaret given as born in Kinnerley Shropshire in c 1808-RG09/1877/62/19.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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You may have heard whispers that the Ann Humphreys who married Robert Hughes was actually born a Hannah Humphreys in Whittington in 1840 and just somehow assumed the name of Ann.However the Census entries prove that this was not the case.The Hannah born in Whittington in 1840 is shown in 1841 and 1851 as the daughter of a Thomas Humphreys who was a Shoemaker.
The Thomas Humphreys with Ann and Lydia in 1861 is an Agricultural Labourer.Further to this I've been looking at the Tree of this Hannah Humphreys on Genes Reunited.It shows her father Thomas died in 1856!
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hello again
Couldn't the two Thomas Humphreys still be one and the same? Perhaps Thomas changed his occupation from shoemaker to Ag. lab if he could find no work/ had to sell his tools/ sight deteriorated for close work???
Help!
J.M.
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After studying the BMD and Census records at quite some length J.M. I don't honestly think they are the same person.
Regards
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I think the Humphreys family must have come from Tefonen, though at one time I believe they lived at Weston Cotton, oswestry - Ann Humphyeys married Robert Hughes at Trefonen Church. Interstingly there are 2 young Humphreys children in Oswestry Workhouse in 1881
Thomas HUMPHREYS 10 M Inmate Scholar Trefonen, Shropshire
William HUMPHREYS 8 M Inmate Scholar Trefonen, Shropshire
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I did speak about the Hannah Humphreys daughter of Thomas the shoemaker.In fact you know this Hannah never married and died in Oswestry in 1901.I will look for the other Humphreys children you mention.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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The Thomas Humphreys you mention could very well be the one given as one month old in 1871,the son of an Edward Humphreys and his wife Ellen.This Edward Humphreys is showing as born in Oswestry in c 1842-RG10/2782/67/17.
The Edward Humphreys shows in 1851 as the son of an Ellis Humphreys and his wife Sarah.Ellis is given as born in Hirnant Montgomeryshire in c 1802-HO107/1993/403/7.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hello again
May have found a record of his death.....June 1970, St Austell, Cornwall?? 7a 383. I am wondering if he married again, and if so would it have been considered bigamy?? He deserted my Nan, Ethel Maud Hughes circa 1924 -1926, she married again in 1939 after no trace of him. JM