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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Berkshire => Topic started by: Dave26 on Friday 27 January 12 10:11 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find out what happened to the following children of Thomas Jennings and Amy Fritter.
James b. 1836, Sarah Ann b. 1839 and Charlotte b. 1845. All born in the Thatcham area.
Any info will be gratefully received.
Regards, Dave
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Have you got them in any censuses? When do you lose track of them? And what were their situations when you last 'found' them?
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Hello
In 1882 Charlotte Jennings married William Rose b abt 1832. In 1881 she is his housekeeper in Enborne. Whether or not the children in 1881 are theirs is a question. He says he is a widow, but the familysearch in 1871 gives the impression that Charlotte was also his housekeeper then, and I haven't found an earlier marriage.
I suspect they are because some of them were registered as Jennings. Perhaps someone could do an 1871 lookup for you to see for sure the Rose family makeup in 1871.
The whereabouts of the other children of Thomas Jennings died 1845 and Amy Flitter/Fritter I know not, never having found them after 1851.
Yours
Vicwinann
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Hi
Not an easy one, a number of possibles to ponder...
Source, IGI, (extr):
10 Mar 1808 (born) Thomas, s. of James Jennings & Spradbury ?, Thatcham, 3 Apr 1808 bap.
8 Mar 1835 Thomas Jennings & Amey Flitter, Thatcham, mar.
Source, Family Search:
*28 May 1835 Charlotte, d. of Thomas Jennings & Ann, Thatcham, bap.
1837 James Jennings, Thatcham, born or bap.
1838 Sarah Jennings, Thatcham, born or bap.
Source, NBI:
*28 June 1835 Charlotte Jennings, inf. Thatcham, bur.
1841 census, HO107/25/21/11/6
Thomas Jennings aged 30. Has his birth at 1811.
Anny aged 30.
James aged 4.
Sarah aged 2.
**Eleazer aged 1 mo.
Jones Seymore aged 10, female, who was she?
Source, NBI:
**29 Dec 1844 Eleazer Jennings, aged 3, Thatcham, St mary, bur.
Source, Free BMD:
Q1, 1845, Thomas Jennings, Reading, death. V.6, P. 172. (cannot see any others).
Hope you can get something from this,
Regards
Geoff
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Hello,
All of that is what I have plus from the 1851:-
Charlotte Jennings 1845 Birth reg 1845 Newbury, baptism Thatcham 15th June. (IGI)
She is the child living with William Rose in 1881 and who he married in 1882.
Most of the IGI/familysearch entries are submitted rather than collected ones, but most ring true.
To find out what happened to the other children of Thomas (James and Sarah Ann) after he was hanged, the key must lie with the 1871 census or finding marriages/deaths. I have been unsuccessful in that, except for Charlotte with William Rose, so maybe James at least emigrated.
I am really interested in Amy Flitter, the Flitters being part of my extended family. I cannot find what happened to her, either. I haven't been able to find a remarriage or a death/burial so far.
When Thomas's mother, Spradbury, died in 1831 age 53 she was living in Crookham although buried at Thatcham.
The Seymore child in 1841 may well be a neice. I haven't found a connection though.
Yours
Vicwinann
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Hi
Sorry, I thought I was responding to Dave26' post.
Regards
Geoff
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Hi Geoff,
You were really responding to both of us as we both would like to know what happened to those children and wife Amy. Thank you for your interest. Several heads are better than one.
Vicwinann
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Hi
Ah! Point taken, my apologies.
I did notice some variations, (though it shouldn't make that much difference) when searching for Anny, Amey, Amy etc,. however, it did change the order in some cases.
There was also:
Source, NBI:
5 May 1891 Charlotte Rose, Aged 52, Newbury, St John the Evangelist, bur. Which would confirm an 1839 birth.
Still one or two mysteries!
Regards
Geoff
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Charlotte Jennings 1845 Birth reg 1845 Newbury, baptism Thatcham 15th June. (IGI)
When Thomas's mother, Spradbury, died in 1831 age 53 she was living in Crookham although buried at Thatcham.
Thatcham is, of course, in the Newbury registration district - and Crookham is part of Thatcham so it is only to be expected that the burial would be there.
Source, NBI:
5 May 1891 Charlotte Rose, Aged 52, Newbury, St John the Evangelist, bur. Which would confirm an 1839 birth.
The burial would probably be in the Newtown Road Cemetery - St John's, which is nearby, never had a burial ground. The Newtown Road register for that period is lost.
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Many thanks everybody.
I now know that Thomas and Amy had 6 children, not 5 as I originally thought.
Charlotte, b. 1835 and seems to have died a few days later.
James, b. 1837. I can't find him after the 1861 census, where he is working as a carter at Granhill Farm, Sparsholt, Berks.
Sarah Ann, b. 1839 and died in 1858.
Eleazar, b. 1841 and was poisoned by his father in 1844.
Henry George, b. 1843 and died at the same time as Eleazar, possibly poisoned by his father also.
Charlotte, b. 1845. married William Rose in 1882. There are 4 children in the 1881 census, William b. 1871, Arthur b. 1873, Annie b. 1876 and Evan b. 1879. all with the surname Rose. But from Free BMD only one is registered as Rose, the other 3 are as Jennings. Even though William is described in the census as a widower, there is a good chance that all 4 were conceived before William and Amy were married. Charlotte died in 1891 and William in 1900, both Newbury reg. district.
Amy Jennings, nee Flitter, went on to marry Charles Bryant in 1861 and died in 1884 in Thatcham. Charles died before her in 1879.
The Seymore child, in the 1841 census, was Joan Seymore, Thomas's niece, who, at his trial, he tried to blame for the death of Eleazar.
Dave
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Hello Davej
Thank you for the info on Amy Flitter/Jennings. I had found the marriage to Charles Bryant in Sept qutr 1861, but was a bit doubtful that this was the right one because she had added "Ann" to her name and I could not find her for definite in the 1881 LDS transcript.
I don't have access to the full 1871, just the transcript from familysearch. On that Amy Ann married to Charles Bryant is in Highclere, and born 1819, so I could not verify she was the same as the widowed Ann age 65 (b1816) that I had found in 1881, or Amy Jennings in 1851 (b1809 bap 1812) .
Neither could I find a death for her except as Ann Bryant in 1884 age 75 , (b1809) and on that one her age is also way out compared to her baptism date of 1812 and the 1851/71/1881 ages.
She (and whoever notified the death) obviously had no idea as to when she was born or how old she was.
Similarly with daughter Charlotte, buried as Charlotte Rose. The death and burial ages vary from each other, (mistranscript?) and widely from the 1851/81/91 censuses ages. In all of those she was b1845, matching her baptism). The death and burial one month after the 1891 census has her born 1841 and 1839 respectively.
Do you have any certificates to back up the marriage and death of Amy/Ann as final proof? It is all a bit messy.
Yours
Vic
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Sorry Vic no certificates, I have been working from census returns and the GRO index. As, now days, copies of certificates are costing almost £10 each, I only collect ones that are for members of my direct family.
Did you find Amy in the 1861 census? In 1851 she is living with her brother, Thomas, and in 1871 she is with her husband, Charles Bryant. Incidentally, she seems to have reduced her age by 10 years in 1871. No doubt so as not to embarrass her husband too much, as she was 10 older than him.
Regards
Dave
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Hello Dave,
I had Amy in 1851, courtesy of Berks Family History Soc cd and now, the familysearch one of 1871 (which does not give details) where she is aged 52, and Charles Bryant is age 49.
I don't have her in 1861 although familysearch has Charles as age 32 in Newtown as a lodger to someone.
Yes, I appreciate your comment on certificates. My sentiments too.
Vicwinann
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Hello Vic.
If you want some more info about Thomas and Amy, ask your library to order a book titled "Pit of Shame" by Anthony Stokes, published by the Waterside Press. It is the history of Reading Goal written by an ex warder. In the chapter about executions, there are about 6 pages all about Thomas and Amy before, during and after his trial. Good background about their life at the time.
Could you let me have some info about Amy's parents, James Flitter and Amy Hazell. All I have is that they were married on 30 March 1789, in St Mary's, Thatcham and had 8 children.
Regards
Dave
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Hello Dave,
Thank you for the book information.
I don't have anything back from James Flitter 1754-1847 and Amy Hazell 1761-1847 simply because I have not researched them back. The birth dates are calculations from death/burials.
Of their 8 children, I have
Hannah 1789
James 1792-1807
Sarah 1801 + her illigitimate child.
Benjamin 1803-1831
Joseph 1806-1854 marr Thyrza Bridgeman = 9 children, one of whom is my link. Thyrza remarried.
Thomas 1809
Amy as discussed
William 1798-1886 marr Ann/Hannah Liddiard = 8 children.
Vic
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Hello Vic.
I have found Amy in the 1861 census, at last. She is using her middle name of Ann and is keeping house for Richard Day, widower, a farmer and his son, also Richard age 5, at Warren Farm, Wash Common, Newbury, Berks. Nearby is her future second husband, Charles Bryant, in a cottage along with another farm labourer, Thomas Dry. As Richard Day is employing 2 men and a boy on his farm, it looks as if Charles Bryant and Thomas Dry both probably worked for him and that is how Charles and Amy first met.
Ref. for census entries, both on same page, is RG9/720/156/28.
Thanks for all the Flitters. I didn't know about their 1st. daughter, Hannah. I had a John born in 1795, between James and William, to make up my 8 children of James and Amy Flitter. It looks now as if they may have had 9.
Dave
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Hi Dave
Thanks for the update on Amy/Ann
I got sister Hannah's baptism from the IGI but have nothing forward for her. A John I do not have although in my notes I have a burial for a John Flitter age 47 in 1841 Thatcham who I could not place in my tree. He is of the right sort of age for the John that you have. Do you have anything more on him and how did you connect him?
Vic
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Hi Vic
From the IGI, batch number J157791 for Fritter, I got John Fretter, b 22 Jan 1795, christened 26 Apr 1795 in Thatcham. Father James Fretter, mother Emy. On the same page are a few more Fritters, including William Fritter b 8 Apr 1798 with Father James and mother Emy. I think Fretter is a mistake by the submitter or transcriber and should have been Fritter. I could be wrong :-[ Somebody with access to Thatcham records might be able to confirm or deny my deduction.
Dave
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Hello again,
I agree with your deductions having now found the reference on familysearch. Some of these entries are member submitted but this one is collected so more reliable.
This makes the burial I collected from Berkshire Burial Index relevant.
Thatcham St Marys John Flitter 12 Sept 1841 age 47 of Cold Ash
Also the 1841 that I collected from my unindexed commercial cd
1841
107/25/17/8/page 11
Cold Ash
John Fritter 45 aglab yes
Vic
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Hello Vic.
First, did you know that Ancestry now have quite a few images of the 1911 census for London on their site. I have loads, both on my Father's and Mother's sides of the family. Shortly I will be spending a morning in the library just downloading entries. Do you have any that you want? Let me know and I will see if they are there.
I have come to the conclusion that there are 2 Flitter/Fritter families in Thatcham at the same time. From familysearch there is a James Fritter with spouse Matha. Can't find a birth for this James. I have found 4 sons so far with the same names as your Flitter family. Joseph and Benjamin, chr. 30 June 1765, John chr. 15 May 1769 and William chr. 21 May 1780. Can't find a marriage for James and Matha, probably around 1765 ish. I would think that the 2 families are related in some way back beyond 1750 or so.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
I have sent you a private message.
Vic
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" William 1798-1886 marr Ann/Hannah Liddiard = 8 children. "
Vic
Hi, I have stumbled upon this old chat and are interested as I am looking into the Flitter family and believe the line I am chasing is John, son of William and Hannah Liddiard.
Many Thanks for any information.
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Sorry Nedda. I have checked my records but didn't find anything other than he was the son of William and Hannah.