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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: TalkTalk17 on Sunday 29 January 12 14:05 GMT (UK)
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Frank Peers lived in the Ammanford area roughly between 1905 and 1953, and was a Plymouth Brethren preacher. Does anyone know whether a photograph exists? His son Donald included a photo of his mother Mary Peers in his autobiography Pathway, but not his father. I wonder if a photo was included with Frank's obituary in the local newspaper? I think he died on 14th May 1953, age 83.
Donald wrote in Pathway that his father was born in the Kent village of Ash (where I live) and his grandfather delivered letters and parcels in the countryside around Canterbury. However, I can't find any BMD or census records for Frank or his father in Kent.
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Hello TalkTalk17 :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
For those of us too young to remember Donald Peers, there's this story on Terrynorm's Ammanford site:
http://www.terrynorm.ic24.net/donald%20peers.htm
Unfortunately there's no photo of Frank, although there is a pic of Donald signing autographs in Ammanford.
Best wishes
Morgan
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Hello :)
I wonder whether Frank could have changed his name. There's the birth of a boy named Osborn Francis Beer in 1869 (Dec quarter). Although it's not Eastry registration district, it could be worth looking into because Beer is not a good name for a member of the Brethren!
GRO Reference: Dover 2a 864
PM sent also
Modified - Once you have made 3 postings on here you will be able to use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data with other Rootschatters. Not sure whether you can see my PM until you make 3 postings.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hi Morgan, thanks for your posts, I can't read your PM, I just tried to reply with a long post but lost most of it (is there a character limit on here?), will try to PM you if allowed, I have done a lot of research into the name change possibility and suspect that Frank Peers was born Alfred John Beer, and he changed his name whilst living in Chicago.
Regards,
Eddie
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Hi Morgan, just read your PM, Beer is a common surname in this part of Kent, which doesn't help. I shared this name change possibility with Terry Norman of the Ammanford website and he referred it to a Plymouth Brethren historian. He dismissed the idea that a Brethren preacher would change his name from Beer because of religious views, and that he would also change his first name as well. Maybe getting the certificates is the only way to solve this but the expense of that wouldn't be justified in the circumstances. I am not related to the Peers, I am just curious!
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Have you looked in the 1911 census to see where Frank says he was born?
Welsh Lady
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Hi Welsh Lady, there is no trace of Frank Peers in the 1911 census. According to Donald's autobiography, his father Frank was born in Ash in Kent. According to Frank's obituary in May 1953 he was born in Kent. I will PM the rest.
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Hi
I read on one site (can't fined it now :( ) that Mary and Frank met in the USA and married there in the 1890s and that Frank was a bit of a roamer. Have you considered checking for their marriage/census info there?
gnu
PS - see that you have him in Chicago
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Hi gnu, Frank Peers married Mary Rees in 1894 in the USA, but there isn't any trace of a marriage or census record. But if his name wasn't Frank Peers at the time then that could explain why there isn't a record.
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Hello TalkTalk17 :)
I can't find Osborn FRANCIS Beer after 1881. In 1871, he's with a sister Ellen Jane who later married Henry W Court. Perhaps you could find an American marriage with that surname.
Perhaps the surname change happened because Mary said "Beers" (which was a variation of Beer) and it was heard as "Peers". (P/B can sometimes sound similar when spoken with a Welsh accent!). Frank would still have been using his own name (albeit his middle name).
Today I checked the obituary in "Amman Valley Chronicle" of 21st May 1953, but unfortunately there is no photograph of Frank. Let me know if you want a transcript of the text.
Kindest Regards
Morgan
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Hi Morgan
I'm not sure what info you've received via PM but I've got quite a bit from the Free 1911 index over the last couple of days, which we are allowed to refer to, and the 1900 US census - I'll summarise the 1900 census, in case you've not seen it and for others who might have further information:
Alfred J Beer was in Chicago in 1900, born England aged 30, born June 1870. Married 6 years , he entered US in 1891 and was a Grocer's clerk. No sign of Mary or their children.
He wasn't there in 1910 under that name or Frank Peers/alts.
According to the 1911 free index, an Alfred John Beer, aged 41, was in Eastry but Mary Peers and Donald were in a seperate household.
gnu
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Hello TalkTalk17 :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
For those of us too young to remember Donald Peers, there's this story on Terrynorm's Ammanford site:
http://www.terrynorm.ic24.net/donald%20peers.htm
Unfortunately there's no photo of Frank, although there is a pic of Donald signing autographs in Ammanford.
Best wishes
Morgan
I remember him well "In a shady nook, by a babbling brook".
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Thank you Gnu :D Interesting that we've all made the connection with the BEER family but no conclusive proof yet. I'd used the free index to find Mary and Donald in 1911, as I haven't got access. Wonder where they married.... not sure whether there is a definitive BMD for USA :-\
Shame that the obit didn't have a photo, which is really what TalkTalk17 is hoping to see!
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I checked the Illinois Marriages using Mary Rees but nothing coming up. Not sure whether the online source that I found said what part of the US Mary was sent to to get some therapy - maybe TT17 might know as we'd then be able to home in on that State.
Also, not sure what the other children's names are so can't do proper searches.
I wonder if the national newspapers might have an obit. :-\ Will check tomorrow, if no one else has.
Surprised that the Plymouth Brethren don't have anything in archives.
gnu
PS - I'm also old enough to remember the Babbling Brook on our big valve driven wireless :D
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TT17 mentioned delivery of parcels, and I've found this, which fits with Austin Beer:
1891
Daniel Beer Head age 45 Baker & Postman - employee born Ash, Kent
Mary Beer Wife age 42 born Woodnesboro
Austen Beer Son age 14 born Ash
Victor Beer Son age 11 born Ash
Sarah Beer Mother age 76 Living on her Means born Woodnesboro
RG12 Piece 734 Folio 15 Page 22
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I checked the Illinois Marriages using Mary Rees but nothing coming up. Not sure whether the online source that I found said what part of the US Mary was sent to to get some therapy - maybe TT17 might know as we'd then be able to home in on that State.
Also, not sure what the other children's names are so can't do proper searches.
Mary apparently went to Hot Springs, Missouri, for treatment
Eldest son was born 1898 Chicago, Elwyn Victor Austin Peers, which fits very nicely with the names of the Beer sons! :D
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1901 Ash St, Ash
Daniel Beer Head age 54 Rural Postman
Mary Beer Wife age 51
Victor Beer Son age 21 Rural Postman
Sarah Beer Mother age 87 Living on own means
RG13 Piece 830 Folio 10 Page 11
so looks as if Beer became Peers!
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Eldest son was born 1898 Chicago, Elwyn Victor Austin Peers, which fits very nicely with the names of the Beer sons! :D
Not found on the US 1900 so far under Peer(s) or Beer :(
Added - not a lot, but he seems to have married a Helen and was in the Indian Police Force - as Elwyn and Elwyn V Peers
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Elwyn also served in WW1, married Margaret Davies in Carmarthenshire 1921, then Helen in India in 1931. Went to Oz where he died.
Next child was Hywel, born ca 1901/2 in US
Janie (Jane Irene) was born Ammanford 1905
Donald was born 1908
According to the obit., there was a daughter Gwyneth but not sure when she was born.
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Struggling with the 1900 US for them and Illinois doesn't seem to have an online birth reg index covering that time :( :-\
Re your census info Replies #14 and 16
The 1881 suggests that Daniel had remarried (1881-1891) and (slightly) changed his occupation:
1881
Ash St Cottage, Ash next Sandwich
RG11/993/12/17
Daniel Beer, 35, Baker and tailor
Eliza, wife, 36, b. Canterbury
Alfred J, son, 11
Minnie, d, 8
Annie M, 6
Austin, 4
Victor C, 1
All but Eliza b. Ash
So Alfred's mother was likely to be Eliza and not Mary.
gnu
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The 1881 suggests that Daniel had remarried (1881-1891) and (slightly) changed his occupation:
.... So Alfred's mother was likely to be Eliza and not Mary.
I'd noticed that and wondered whether that is why Alfred went on his travels (altho he was 20 years old in 1891).
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Thanks to everyone who helped with this, it confirms what I and another amateur genealogist suspected which is that Frank Peers probably changed his name from Alfred John Beer, although without getting all the relevant certificates we can't be 100% sure.
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I'm one of the amateur genealogists that has been digging around into this mystery. One of the (several) things that made me lean towards the possibility of Frank Peers having been born Alfred John Beer is this:
On the terrynorm site it mentions " For some reasons Frank Peers' employment by his father-in-law did not prove an ideal arrangement and he applied for and was given a job as a clerk in a sawmill in Ammanford". On the 1911 English census Alfred John Beer is staying with his brother Austin Harry Beer in Ash. Alfred John's occupation is a clerk in a timber merchants. I'm guessing his brother recorded him under the name he had always known him as.
Also, in 1911, Mary Peers and the young Donald are staying in Ash with Henry William & Ellen Jane Court. Ellen Jane nee Beer .......
At first I thought my theory may be a bit far-fetched, now I don't think so.
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Hello Ballyhooligan :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Not at all far-fetched! Also the name of Frank's son Elwyn Victor Austin gives a definite connection to the Beer family of Ash.
Kind Regards
Morgan
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This looks like the marriage record for Alfred J Beer(e) and Mary Rees(e) who are known to have married in Chicago in 1894.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N76K-73D
An e has been added to both surnames.
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Another piece of the jigsaw! All we need now is for someone to find a photograph of Frank to complete the thread. :D