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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Doddie on Sunday 29 January 12 17:45 GMT (UK)
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Trying to discover what became of husband and wife William Henry Sharratt & Elizabeth Moore Sharratt (m.n Wilson) who were married in Leigh in 1889. After the 1901 census I cannot find any trace of them. Without going into too much detail (for discretion's sake) there was possibly an unfortunate family 'event' that occured around this time and Thomas and Elizabeth may have gone their seperate ways. Elizabeth, my g.g. aunt, was born in 1870 to Robert & Mary Jane Wilson in what was then Sutton Oak. Are divorce records kept in similar fashion to BMD's? All help appreciated.
Regards
Doddie
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Searching the free 1911 census there is an Elizabeth Moore born Sutton Oak c1870 living in Warrington district. Wonder if this is her?
Elizabeth and William were living in the same district in 1901
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Hi Mabel, what a spot! Have looked at a copy of the original census form on Ancestry. All the details add up: Sutton Oak, date of birth, and number of years married (21 if we consider that the 22nd year has not yet been completed at the time the census was taken). Surely too much of a coincidence. But why no Sharratt as surname? Not a typo, I don't think. It's one thing to spell a name incorrectly, but quite another to omit it completely. Wonder where hubby was. Maybe simply out of the house when census was taken. Certainly a great deal of food for thought. Will keep you posted. Many thanks.
Regards
Doddie
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I wonder if WilliamHenry Sharrat aooears elsewhere in the census?
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If you've seen the original you've seen the 5 year old child. She does appear to have been registered as a Moore- sadly LancsBMD do not have mmn for this birth.
I wonder if the lodger has something to do with matters, as Elizabeth Moore appears to marry her lodger Thomas Upton in 1918
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Does anybody have an Olive Moore, born in Warrington district for the March quarter for 1906 in their tree. Or alternatively does anyone know who her mother Elizabeth married in 1889/1890. I am utterly convinced that Elizabeth Moore is also Elizabeth Moore Sharratt. I keep on coming back to this issue every now and then and because the details on the census form match those of Elizabeth Moore Sharratt almost identically I am convinced they are one and the same. Heeeeelp, please.
Regards
Doddie
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I have been looking for Shorts and have found them occasionally entered as Sharratt. Perhaps you
look under that name? Sandra
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Hi Sandra, took your advice and checked under Shorts (as well as other spelling 'versions'). On Ancestry the only likely entry I have come across so far is a death in the Dec. quarter of 1914 for a William Scarrott in the reg. district of Warrington. On face value the surname is not too wildly incorrect with regard to spelling/pronounciation. The only fly in the ointment is that when I went to crosscheck the entry with records on both FreeBMD and LancashireBMD there was no such record listed on those sites. I usually find that at least the LancashireBMD records correspond quite accurately with those on Ancestry. Would appreciate your opinion and those of others.
Regards
Doddie
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They've not crept up to the sharratts in tamworth have they? My lot are fazeley area and there are loads of them. I have in the past seen one lot next door to my lot. I think it was the prestolee lot of sharratts.
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Hi Doddie,
For some reason the one death on Ancestry must be a mistake.
It looks like this one:
Deaths Dec 1846
Scarrott William Warrington Vol 20 Pg 935
(same volume and page number).
Maureen
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If you slur Scarrot and Sharrott when saying them out loud they sound much the same. Sandra
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Thank you for your prompt responses. Maureen, thank you for ruling William Scarrott out. Talk about Ancestry being out with their dates! I have had a look back at my research. I had previously ordered a copy of the 1906 birth certificate for Olive Moore (the daughter mentioned in the 1906 census). No father named so no help there. I have just ordered a copy of the marriage certificate for the 1918 marriage of Thomas Upton and Elizabeth Moore. Hopefully that will shed some light on matters. Although Sharratt (and it's variant spellings) is not as uncommon a surname as I thought it would be I still thought I would have found this branch of my family easier to research. Starting to tear out what little hair I have left. Will keep you all posted with developments.
Regards
Doddie
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Hi folks. The mystery continues. Have just received a copy of the Upton/Moore marriage cert. Marriage took place on 18 August 1918 in the parish of Eccleston. Details relating to Elizabeth Moore are as follows: Elizabeth Moore, widow, 48 years old. Father is named as Robert Wilson (deceased), bricklayer. To me this confirms that Elizabeth Moore was also Elizabeth Moore Wilson who married William Henry Sharrett in 1889. It still does not explain why Elizabeth had decided to use her middle name as her surname for the 1911 census and why daughter Olive was also given this surname. Given that she was still married at the time of the census was William (wherever he was at the time ) also going by the name Moore for some unfathomable reason? I certainly haven't been able to find a 'suitable' death of a William Sharratt that would have rendered Elizabeth a widow by the time she married Thomas Upton. I implore all interested parties to don their deerstalkers on this one.
Regards
Doddie
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This could be guys death, note spelling variation.
William H Sherratt age 35, Warrington Lancashire, 1912. June quarter. 8c, 208.
Brionne
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My last post obviously not the one you seek.
However notice that the 1891 gives William E
William E Sharratt 28 b Hindley Lancs Engine Winder.Married.
Elizabeth M 21 wife b Sutton Oak Lancs.
Cecilia A Wilson age 11,sister,scholar Earlstown Lancs
1 Holmes Buildings St Helens RD Eccelston St Helens Lancs.
Ref 3016-122-15,Prescot.Eccleston St Helens Lancs.
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Hi Brionne, I did notice the census entry before. I think the middle initial 'E' for William is an error. On the 1889 marriage certificate his full name is given as William Henry Sharrett. I have only just noticed the 'e' in the surname. I have always been saying the surname is Sharratt. However, having said that, over the various documents relating to William the surname does vary very slightly. One more thing that I forgot to mention which muddies things slightly is that in the 'mother' section of the birth certificate for Olive Moore it describes Elizabeth as 'Elizabeth Moore formerly Moore '. stranger and stranger.
regards
Doddie
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Think her birth name is Elizabeth Moore Wilson,you will need eventually to investigate her family before her birth to see where the Moore came from.Its not uncommon to find another surname added. Moore may be no connection to the family at all,example,one of my men had a second name named after a racehorse.
Have had a really good look at the census today for you,it certainly is a bit of a puzzle.
Brionne.
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Hi Brionne, you're quite right. I have over the years tried to get to the bottom of the Moore middle name. Have not come across any Moores in the Wilson family line but will continue to search. I have a feeling that I am going to be unable to find a solution to the problem of why Elizabeth 'dropped' her previous married name and instead used the Moore name for herself and daughter Olive.
Regards
Doddie
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Odd though that there is no death record for William H Sharratt.
Have looked at shipping records,sometimes the men folk would emigrate to say the US or Canada then wives and children go out later.There just might be the possibility that he did go some where and then died abroad,leaving Elizabeth free to marry again.He was an engine winder 1891,would he have gone out to India or South Africa,with the railways,dozens did.
Have you considered also that a guy named Moore was Elizabeths father.
Brionne.
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Another couple of possibles.WW1 death makes him [circa age 53].
William H Sharratt, L/Cpl, 8844,Cheshire Regiment, 1917
vol 1.27, page 503.
Birth, William H Sharratt Salford 1864 reg Dec 8d 77.
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Hi Doddie
Absolutely fascinating story - I do hope you get to the bottom of it.
There's a birth in Prescot in 1870 for Elizabeth Moore Wilson Mar qtr vol 8b page 678.
I'm struggling to find her in the 1871 census though - the best match is an Elizabeth M Wilson with parents Robert and Mary J both born Lancashire. Robert is a railway porter though not a bricklayer - ref RG10 piece 3834 Folio 47 pg 43.
best wishes
Maria
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Hi Maria, that census entry is a correct one. Robert, Elizabeth's father (sometimes also known as James Robert Wilson/Robert James Wilson) did have a seven or eight year spell working on the railway between his usual occupation as a bricklayer. He was at various times a railway porter and a railway guard. Elizabeth's mother was born Mary Jane Dickinson. Robert and Mary Jane were married in the Edgehill area of Liverpool in 1866.
Regards
Doddie
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Thanks Doddie - glad I'm not toally barking up the wrong tree - still don't see where Moore comes in though - I was thinking MMN but that doesn't work either.
Best wishes
Maria :)
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Have decided to pick up this frustrating thread again. No real progress with William Sherratt since my last post. Have decided to see if anyone out there possibly - and it's a big 'possibly', I know - has a William Sherratt in their tree who had possibly married for a second time (whether legally or otherwise). For now I am limiting the time frame to what I know about his 'first' wife Elizabeth. She was still married in 1911 (acording to the census of that year) but was a widow when she married again in 1918. William would have been between 48-50 years old in 1911 and 55-57 in 1918. If William had married again before this period things are even more complex. Some additional information that might help: William's father was Jabez Sherratt and his mother was Margaret Collier. Apologies for perhaps muddying the waters even further, but I am determined to get to the bottom of all this.
Regards
Doddie
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Doddie this is probably mad but there's a passenger list entry for a William Sheratt leaving London on 6th June 1911 on the Highland Laddie bound for Buenos Aires ???
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The image shows this passenger travelling First Class,single male,British but no occupation shown.
Can you list the family with all details in 1901 please Doddie,also do you have Williams birth registration record.
Brionne.
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Hello again Brionne, in 1901 William and Elizabeth were living at 1 Parkside Cottage in Newton-in-Makerfield, Lancashire. Staying with them is Elizabeth's younger sister Cecelia Annie Wilson aged 21. William is described as being a "saw mill engine driver". He had previously worked at Bedford Colliery in Leigh as an engineman. I haven't got William's birth certificate with me just now but he was born in Hindley, Lancashire in 1862.
Regards
Doddie
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Have found out that the S.S. Highland Laddie arrived in Buenos Aires on 28 June 1911. Now trying to find out what consequently happened to William Sherratt after that in order to discover if he may have been 'my' William Sherratt/Sharratt. Have also posted a seperate thread relating to this under the 'Other Countries' forum just to widen the net.
Regards
Doddie
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I would guess that Elizabeth and William had gone their separate ways possibly over the issue of the child's parentage. Elizabeth isn't aware/doesn't know whether William is still a live but wishes to remarry so decides to slightly alter her name to cover her previous marriage and as she has to provide no evidence to show she is a widow or what her name is just marries as Moore and no one really the wiser!!
If there was no father on Olive's birth certificate the indexes often put the mother's name in the column head mother's maiden name usually signifying that the mother was not married. This would have been the assumption made by the registrar for Elizabeth as she would not indicate she was married as no father's name given.
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Hi Gibel, what you say certainly makes sense. It puzzles me however that on the birth certificate of daughter Olive her name is stated as 'Elizabeth Moore formerly Moore'. Why not 'formerly Wilson', as that was after all her maiden name? You have though sparked off a few new ideas in my mind. If, as you say, Elizabeth's widowed status was bogus it may follow that William was in fact still alive. I have to be open to the idea that he may have died after 1918 - maybe well after. Also, he may have adopted a similar 'strategy' to Elizabeth and also remarried, claiming himself to be a widower. That could make finding any such marriage a bit of a lottery. Hey ho, who ever said this family history lark would be straightforward?!
Regards
Doddie
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God bless the 1939 England and Wales Register. I have found my William Sherratt/sharratt. At the age of about 77 he was living in Upholland, Lancashire. The birth date for the 'William H. Sherratt' in the register is given as 13th June 1862, the very same date that appears on the birth certificate for 'my' William when he was born in Hindley. In 1939 he was living with a Mary Sherratt who was born on the 1st September 1855. My task now is to try and see if I can piece together what William had been doing between 1901 and 1939 - wish me kuck.
Regards
Doddie
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A possible death for him then: William Henry Sherratt aged 84, Mar qtr 1947 Ince 10c 687.
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Good spot avm228, I will order a copy of the death certificate asap. Hope there is some helpful information. I just wish the BMD certificates in England were as detailed as the ones in Scotland. I have a strange feeling that the identity of the informant may be of little help. If William was a widower when he died and had no children after setting out on his new life after his relationship with Elizabeth had foundered there may have been no family to act as informant on his death. I will have to rely on other information to corroborate whether the death certificate is that of 'my' William. On the 1939 Register William's occupation was 'Railway engine driver, retired'. Maybe I can try and follow a job timeline to find out more.
Regards
Doddie
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Hi avm228, received the 1947 dated death certificate yesterday. It is the correct William Sherratt. Luckily, as well as the address he was living at when he died (154 Upholland Road) it also has for some reason an address in the occupation section of the certificate - 16 Grove Road, Upholland, the same address that appears in the 1939 register. The actual occupation (retired engine/locomotive driver) matches as well. The informant was, 'J. Halsall, nephew, 49 Netherley(?) Road, Wigan'. I am now trying to establish who his parents were in order to establish how the nephew connection fits in. Still determined to try to fill in the timeline gap for William covering the period from 1901 and 1939. I never thought I would become fixated over someone like this.
Regards
Doddie
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New thread here re J Halsall - found (hopefully)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812429.msg6728526#msg6728526
Posted just for information to prevent duplication of information.
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In conjunction with my other thread - thank you heywood for posting the link, I utterly forgot to do that myself so engrossed was I in my searching! - I have made progress. john Halsall was indeed William's nephew. He was the son of William's sister Anne/Ann (born in Ince in about 1851). Further details are of course contained in the link. I have also discovered some other information. 154 Upholland Road was the site of the old Billinge Hospital (now the site of a new housing estate, so I understand). Until 1930 it was called the Wigan Union Hospital.
Regards
Doddie
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I just cannot let go of this thread. It gets more convoluted the more I dig. Certain things I have been able to establish.
When William's first wife Elizabeth married for a second time in 1918 and claimed to be a widow, she was not telling the truth. Even though it states in the 1911 census that Elizabeth was still married, was it the case that William had already flown the coop (to use a rather quaint expression) by then? If, on the other hand, Elizabeth and William were still actually married (and it was just a case of William being out of the house when the census was taken), why all this malarky with the surname Moore instead of Wilson?
In the 1939 Register William is living with Mary Sherratt (who was born on 1 September 1855) and whose personal occupation is described as 'Unpaid domestic duties' (a euphemistic phrase for 'wife' judging by the register). I have been unable to find a marriage that fits the bill. Perhaps William did not decide to actually get married but simply maintained the pretence that he and Mary were man and wife. Although the birth date for Mary is very handy, I realise that there is virtually no chance of finding Mary's maiden name simply by cross referencing her first name with the birth date - needle in a haystack time, methinks! If anyone has any ideas how to progress further with my attempt to fill in William's 'lost' years I am open to any suggestions.
It would also be interesting to discover when William changed occupations from working in the mines to becoming a locomotive driver. I have noticed that there is a railway connection with the occupations of William's nephew John Halsall and also his father Richard Halsall.
Regards
Doddie