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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: BradyCMH on Thursday 02 February 12 13:14 GMT (UK)
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The Hollinsheds lived in Orford during much of the XVII century and the early XVIII c. Yet they originated from Staffordshire (Hollinshed/Hollingshead/Hollingshed etc.). At least one branch of the family espoused the royalist cause in the Civil War and lost most of his property when Charles I lost his head. On the Restoration a position was awarded of Governor of Landguard Fort in Suffolk. The Governor adopted a son, William, who in turn had a son John.
Is there a family member out there who has any idea of when they moved, and any first names or dates?
It is believed the Suffolk branch of the Hollinsheds became extinct after the marriage of Margaret, 3rd child of John Hollinshed Esq., to a Charles Brady of Orford.
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These are from the Suffolk Burial Index looks like they arrived pre 1731
All HOLLINSHEAD, all buried Orford, St Bartholomew
Daniel 27 Sep 1814 (38)
Elizabeth 22 Jan 1769
John 10 May 1754 (Mr, port man)
Margarett 15 Jul 1731 (wd of William)
Mary 3 Jul 1826 (74)
William 1 Aug 1731 (wdr)
regards
Keziah
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From Boyds marriage index.
Jn Holingshed
Elz Battle
1722
Woodbridge
Thomas Goodwin
Fran. Hollinshed
1765
Orford
Charles Brady
Marg Hollinshed
1767
Orford
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NROCAT - norfolk records office online catalogue has details of an Administration Bond (no 62) of a John HOLLINSHEAD of Orford dated1754.
The free search engine for Parish Marriages on findmypast details several Hollinshead marriages in Suffolk in the 1700's.
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I am descended from John Hollinshed but am having difficulty in proving earlier connections. John's gt grandson, William Hollinshed Brady wrote "A history of Orford in the C18" in about 1815 and his original hand written copy is in the Ipswich Record Office. Fortunately there is a typewritten transcription! The second half of his document gives a lot of detail on the Hollinsheds and Bradys. However I suspect that some of it comes from family traditions because some of the dates he gives do not match with those in the Parish Records.
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I am grateful to the contributions posted by Keziah2, Suffolk Sue and SG.
It was my brother and I who put the manuscript by William Hollinshed Brady into the safe keeping of the Suffolk Records Office. I did not know a typewritten transcript had been made, otherwise I would not have started to print one myself! Is it available without going there, does anyone know, please? (I live many miles away in Devon).
Some differences in dates I have noticed: William Hollinshed died 1731 in m/s, c.f. 1730 in Index. Frances Hollinshed married 1755 in m/s to the reverend gentleman who treated her so badly, c.f. 1764 in Boyd’s. Anything else, S.G.? If so, I would be very interested to know (off-list if you would prefer).
There is something quite puzzling. There was issue of four from the marriage of John Hollinshed and Elizabeth according to WHB’s manuscript: Frances, b1723, then another Elizabeth, unmarried, then Margaret who married Charles Brady and a John, about whom not much is known except that he was illegitimate and was supposed to have had no issue. This was meant to have been the end of the male line for the Hollinsheds. Yet Keziah2 reveals from the SBI that there were Daniel d.27 Sep 1814 and so born 1776, and Mary d.3 Jul 1826 and so born 1752, so where did these come from? Either the bastard John had issue that no-one wanted to talk about, or there was another line parallel to that of the William Hollinshed who died in 1730/31.
Again, your line, S.G., if you know you are descended from John who married Elizabeth, must according to our manuscript have come through Frances through her union with Parson Goodwin, or through the Brady line or through the mysterious young, illegitimate John. Again, I would be very interested to know.
Thanks to everyone for their interest.
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I am descended from Louisa, the youngest sister of the William Hollinshed Brady who wrote the document. I live on the Essex/Suffolk border and so have gone to the Ipswich Records Office and Orford and have quite a bit of extra information. I also have photos of paintings of some of the early Hollinsheds.
I registered for this site so that I could reply to your question and so don't know the form! I agree that it would be much simpler if we could exchange information off list but how does one go about that?
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SG, you need to make one more post on this thread and then you will have the option of sending BradyCMH a personal message (PM) which will be for his eyes only.
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So, that would be Louisa who was born in Butley 17/09/1800, died Fringringhoe 20.09/1890, married William Croyen of West Mersea who had 3 children the eldest of which was Louisa Elizabeth, who left issue( the others didn’t)?
But surely, Louisa was not the youngest? What about Ann, born Butley 1804, died Fringringhoe 189?, unmarried?
You might also have some useful input to the string “Brady of Fen Ditton” that was discussed here at some length a few weeks ago.
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Quite right, Louisa Elizabeth was my gt grandmother. You are also correct that Ann was younger, I hadn't scrolled down the list far enough! My fault.
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Thank you Annes. I thought that there had to be a way!
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Hi there all,
I have found this old post and please wondered what is written in that text about the Brady family of Orford?
I am descended from a Sarah Brady (b. c1755/6) who married Thoams Grimwood in Orford in 1781.
I am trying to find out more about her family.
I have a post on this in rootschat below and believe she was the daughter of John Brady and Sarah Murdock who married in 1756.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=759925
Any help on this family would be gratefully received.
Thank you,
Jon
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Jon,
According to our family record, I believe your connection is likely to be to another line of the family. The record is that Charles Brady (d.1767) had a cousin who set up in the neighbourhood farming at Iken Hall, whose name was Robert , b.1671, and who married a "Widow Easthaugh". I have no record of Robert's descendants (nor predecessors unfortunately). The cousins, successors and their families kept well in touch with each other, and so it comes as no surprise that you have a Sarah, as well as I. However, mine married a mariner called Thomas Cooper in 1770. There was no other Sarah down this line previously. My Sarah was a child of Thomas Brady (son of the abovesaid Charles) and his wife Bathsheba, m.1746, who is recorded in our documents as having a maiden name Syer. However, I have noticed this name Syred when trying to find connections, and a Brady and Mayor Syred went up to London together to petition parliament, so it wouldn't surprise me if our record is wrong here - perhaps misread, or a typo..sorry quillo!
There were lots of Orford related Bradys during the XVIII century of whom I know nothing, and it would be great to be able to follow that line down, but I haven't got around to it yet. What you have discovered might well help.
I'm still trying to find where Charles and Robert came from! It's reputed to be from Scotland but I haven't found any hard evidence, and I note there were quite a few Bradys around in Orford in the XVII century, though details of their relations are obscure.
Regards,
Mike Brady
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Thanks very much for the reply, Mike. Your post was really interesting as as it seems given the locations that the families were from different branches.
My John's first wife appears to have been Anne Syred who he married in Orford in 1751. So maybe the lines linked here too.
Have you ever seen the parish registers of Eyke/Ike I wonder?
I had seen that a Thomas Brady in parliamentary records so this is the guy you must mean.
I also saw two wills of Bradys in Orford, a John Brady in 1705 and a Margaret Brady in 1792. Do you know who these people are at all?
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/getrecord/GB173_IC_AA1_135_10
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/getrecord/GB173_IC_AA1_212_61
I saw some of the Orford Bradys also ended up in Colchester:
http://www.gravestonephotos.com/public/gravedetails.php?grave=237462&scrwidth=1200Caroline
I hit a brick will with Sarah years ago so it is exciting to have apparently now found her parents as John Brady and Sarah Murdock who married in Orford in 1756.
Thanks again for the information,
Jon
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Apologies everyone. I inadvertenetly changed the subject in my las post; must have pressed the wrong reply button.
Jon,
John Brady, Will of 1705. I am not registered to access and read the will. I would be interested to know how it reads and whether there is reference to “my son Charles” or “my nephew Robert”, or “my wife XXX”, etc. If so, this would strengthen a suspicion I have that the family tradition of migration from Brodie country in Scotland might, if true at all, relate to a previous generation rather to Charles. Otherwise the name was not so uncommon around Orford in the late XVII century as has been previously observed or postulated. I have found no birth certificate information for the first Charles, in either Orford or Gravesend with which he had some connection. If there is some way of contacting me direct, I would much appreciate a copy of that will, as well as Margaret Brady’s. I am happy to send you a transcript for the Early Family History Memorandum relevant to the period under discussion.
This Margaret (who is recorded in our documents as d. November 1971) was one of four siblings, offspring of an Elizabeth, nee Battell of Woodbridge and John Hollinshed of Orford. She was the wife (m.1767) of a second Charles Brady, b.1738, d. c.1789?, son of Thomas and Bathsheba whom I mentioned previously.
Regards,
Mike Brady
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Have come across this marriage:
November 8, 1628. — Thomas Brady of Orford and Mary Craggs
of Butley, both single, at Butley. (Book 8, fo. 21)
The reference is in "Marriage licenses from the official note books of the archdeaconry of Suffolk deposited at the Ipswich probate court 1613-1674" which can be found here https://archive.org/stream/marriagelicenses00chur/marriagelicenses00chur_djvu.txt
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Thanks to Mike Brady and SG for alerting me to the existence of the handwritten document on Orford at the SRO. I have discovered today that there are 2 old handwritten copies, and one modern handwritten transcription (not typed) separately catalogued but none on the consumer viewable catalogue. I would not have known about them without your posts. I am researching well known families who lived in Orford at the same time as the Brady's and the Hollinsheads and who get a mention in the document so it was an excellent resource. Can you tell me your source for John Brady and John Syred going to petition parliament. John Syred is one of my characters and he was Mayor of Orford once upon a time.
thanks again
Charlie
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I believe that a subsequent manuscript copy was made by my Great Grandfather William Hollinshed BRADY and nephew of the original author Lt.William Hollinshed BRADY when he extended the family history from the1840 date of the original. I know from letters I have, written by the Lt., that his writing was very old fashioned and difficult to read. These were all sent in to the SRO by my brother a few years ago, and I have no exact record of what was included or their dates. I asked the SRO recently why stuff that was previously catalogued and obtainable on line is no longer so. They replied to the effect that everything is in the process of being re-referenced.
Whilst the 1840 document is most useful in filling some gaps that would otherwise be left in the Brady and Hollinshed histories back to the end of the XVII c. I doubt whether it can be taken as completely authoritative. WHB himself curses the laxity with which the clerics of the day fulfilled their registration duties – or failed to! I imagine that some of the narrative around missing dates and relationships comes from oral family tradition. However, that cannot be lightly dismissed, and where information through digital technology is available to confirm events in the 1840 Memo I have found few discrepancies. Also, it seems to me that WHB considered himself pretty respectable, and I have sometimes wondered whether some facts surrounding the earlier Brady family, of which I find it difficult to believe he was not aware, have been omitted from the family chronicle!
I cannot put my finger on the particular petition to which you are referring, but you may have come across the document http://luna.folger.edu/luna/servlet/detail/FOLGERCM1~6~6~700829~148889:Letter-from-William-Hollinshed,-Joh#
John Syred was a signatory, alongside William Hollinshed and a John Bradey in a petition to Sir Robert Rich for permission to raise a wreck. I have the impression that the Syreds were fairly well-to-do and of note within this relatively isolated community.
Another petition in which a John Brady was involved is reported in Journals of the House of Commons Volume 13. Perhaps the easiest look-up is on: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ThNDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA190&lpg=PA190&dq=Portmen+at+Orford&source=bl&ots=RbU-5H33Qn&sig=LYxYZc6FKg5QIEp4cxk_Y4-AVZA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRrbLrg4LQAhVhOMAKHU9WC0U4ChDoAQggMAE#v=onepage&q=Portmen%20at%20Orford&f=false
In the proceedings it was stated : “That there being two people acting as Mayor at Orford, mainly Mr. Stevens and Mr. John Syred;.........”
I hope that helps. If you have any material on the Bradys or the Hollinsheds I would be most grateful if you could please get in touch.
Mike Brady
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Hello Mike
Thanks for your speedy reply. I had found the two links you gave. It was the letter to Sir Robert Rich that alerted me to the Hollinshead and Brady names. Having read your ancestors document in the Record Office I wondered if the story of the large wreck that William Hollinshead salvaged which resulted in the large salt cellars being handed down in the family was the same wreck, if they felt it was important enough to complain about. I also wondered, as John Syred in his will of 1709 mentions he is a part owner of a hoy, whether the 2 other part owners were WH and JB. John Syred's daughter, Ann, married George Mingay and four generations of George Mingay's were then merchants in Orford. There is another fascinating (to me!) story in the document about a widow stirring up the social norms of the backwater of Orford. That is Sophia Mingay and a lovely story to add to the facts of her marrying Thomas Mingay,a banker and merchant in London and then a while after his death marrying Thomas's nephew, also a Thomas, and moving to Orford. By coincidence I went to Orford today and stumbled across 3 Hollinshead gravestones which are just about readable for William, Elizabeth and John. Have you got copies of these? If you would like them I could email them to you, but if of no interest, let me know and I will just delete them. If I come across anything else about William Hollinshead or John Brady I will let you know.
Charlie
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Charlie,
It does not seem beyond the bounds of possibility that this was the same ship, but I have as yet found no evidence.
Elizabeth , daughter of Charles Brady & Margaret Hollinshed, married William James Mingay – in Greyfriars, London oddly enough. They moved to “Lynn”, by which I believe is meant King’s Lynn, and appear not to have had children.
I have images of the Hollinshed gravestones, but very indistinct. I would gratefully appreciate your sending me your photos, thank you. They might be an improvement.
The great puzzle to me is how there came to be Daniel and Mary Hollinshed. The 1840 chronicler stated quite clearly that no male line was left after John and Elizabeth. John had a son also John who was illegitimate, but, again, the 1840 Memo states he left no issue. I wonder whether William had a brother or cousin, at the head of a parallel line, but I have found no evidence yet for this, or any other pedigree of Daniel Hollinshed.
Such evidence, if found, might also give a clearer picture of where exactly William came from.
Mike
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William James Mingay is the ancestor I have researched back from. I knew that he married Elizabeth Brady who was the second of his four wives, but had never researched her ancestors, so thanks for sharing who her parents were. William James was a merchant in London on his father's behalf and then took a business partner in his brother in law and gradually relocated to Kings Lynn. An interesting chap.
I am happy to send you the photos. If you would like me to do this directly then can we communicate by email? Otherwise I will try to attach them to a post here if that is possible.
Charlie
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Elizabeth , daughter of Charles Brady & Margaret Hollinshed, married William James Mingay – in Greyfriars, London oddly enough. They moved to “Lynn”, by which I believe is meant King’s Lynn, and appear not to have had children.
Mike
The parish register of St Margaret, King's Lynn, at FamilySearch.org shows that Elisabeth, the wife of grocer William James Mingay, of Saturday Market, Lynn, was buried on 22 January 1813 at the age of 40 (born 1772-73).
Is it beyond doubt that her parents were Charles & Margaret Brady (Orford baptism July 1772) and not Thomas & Elizabeth Brady (January 1773)?
If so, I can feel a little more confident about the ancestry of the Elizabeth Brady who married John Hutton at Orford in 1795 and was buried there in August 1812 aged 39 (born 1772-73). It seems likely that she was one of the four children of Thomas & Elizabeth christened at Orford: Moses (1767), John (1770), Elizabeth (1773) and William (1775).
Their mother may have been Elizabeth Reed, who married a Thomas Brady at Ipswich (St Margaret) in 1762. The best evidence I have for that hypothesis is the will of a potential grandson, "John Brady now commonly called & known by the name of John Reed late of Orford in the County of Suffolk but now of Woodbridge" (signed by Jno Brady 1814; probate PCC 1816). After providing for Mary Pitkin or Pitkins (widow of Joseph Pitkin, lighterman & fireman of the Royal Exchange, London) the will divides bricklayer John's assets between his Hutton and Brady cousins, John & Elizabeth Hutton (children of the above-mentioned John & Elizabeth Hutton) and the unnamed children of William & Martha Brady.
William Brady (c.1775-1853) married Martha Read at Orford in 1799. Their sons are known to have included another Moses (c.1809-1815), supporting Elizabeth Hutton's descent from Thomas Brady. Martha was born at Marlesford and probably baptized there in 1776 (a daughter of Martha Reid, fathered by William Martin). She was buried at Parham in 1870, sharing her husband's grave.
Unfortunately, I can't find the burial or age of the testator John Brady/Reed to assess whether he was more closely connected with Martha Reid/Read than with Elizabeth Reed.
David
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David,
Excuse the delay. I have come to the conclusion that there were quite a few Bradys around in Orford in the XVIII century! Family records state that this Elizabeth Brady, daughter and one of three children of Charles Brady & Margaret Hollinshed married a Wm. Mingay at Gravesend in 1812 and died in 1813 (at age 41) . I have never found any record of this marriage, but there is a record of a marriage to Wm James Mingay in London in 1812. I am inclined to believe this is my Elizabeth.
There was another line of our family through cousins about 4 generations previously. I have not been able to put all that together; there could be another Thomas out there, but certainly no Johns or Marthas have come to light, and that is probably an unrelated family.
Mike
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Thanks Mike
Ancestry's image of the 1812 wedding record at Christ Church Newgate Street (also known as Christ Church Greyfriars) is evidently not from the primary register, since all the signatures are written by the same hand. Although the second witness looks like P Brady, I wonder whether this could be a mistranscription of F Brady - possibly Elizabeth's niece Frances Sophia (b. 1798).
The confusion of Greyfriars and Gravesend makes your family story no less plausible in the main, so I'm now happy to claim Thomas and Elizabeth Brady as the parents of Elizabeth Hutton.
David
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Yes, I see on the 1812 Marriage register, presumably of the church, that all the handwriting is similar.
On my poor copy I read "P" Brady rather than "F". However this is not a witness but a participant in the marriage! Parson got it wrong. The witnesses are S.D.Evley (possibly) of whom I know nothing but might have been a friend of Mingay's, and Edward Lark. He was a draper from Gravesend who married one of Elizabeth's aunts, Mary. The confusion of Greyfriars with Gravesend had never struck me...Well done! And in this case it could have been further compounded by the home of the witness.
Mike
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David,
When you look into the copious and often influential Mingay family some incisistencies crop up . I down loaded some history about the Mingaus some months ago but the web address I took at the time doesn't work now.
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David,
When you look into the copious and often influential Mingay family some incisistencies crop up . I down-loaded some history about the Mingays some months ago
http://www.mingayhistorywebpages.com/JAM%20BOOK%20PDFIndex%20and%20Pages%201%20to%20595.pdf
It claims that WJM married four times and that Elizabeth Brady was the first, dying in childbirth. However, the dates don't stack up. For instance, Ann (nee Atkinson) of Bacton is shown on the heritage websites as marrying him in 1792 (c/f the marriage to Elizabeth in 1812), and she died in 1801, some years BEFORE WJM's marriage to Elizabeth.
Mike Brady
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Sorry Mike: I should have checked the image more carefully. I'm glad you swiftly dispelled my confusion of the bride, E or "P" Brady, with the second witness, whose name looks to me like S. D. Erby.
One candidate is Sarah Dinah Erby, whose death was registered in the Islington district in 1849 Q4, when she was recorded as 76 years old (born 1772-73: about the same age as the short-lived Elizabeth Brady/Mingay). Née Barrow, Sarah married George Erby (c.1757-1842) in 1795 at St Giles without Cripplegate, in the City of London. His will was proved in the PCC in 1844. I haven't combed through it for signs of kinship with the Mingay family but I suspect Sarah was a friend of Elizabeth.
Best of luck with your continuing efforts to root out some of the misinformation now embedding itself across the Internet (http://www.mingayhistorywebpages.com/JAM%20BOOK%20PDF/Index%20and%20Pages%201%20to%20595.pdf).
David