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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: pink petunia on Saturday 04 February 12 10:25 GMT (UK)
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Amy Phillips was the proprietress of the Hand Hotel Llangollen. One of her family William, married Mary Ann Haustead.
In the 1851 census Mary Ann and William, who was listed as Post master, had two children ,Amy and Alice.
By 1861 Amy age 12 .Alice 11 , Frank W. 9 and Ada Phillips 7 were living in a lodging house with two spinster sisters. I can find nothing more on their parents Mary Ann and William. The children in future census were listed as living on own means.
Would love to learn more about this family and what happened to their parents.
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Welcome to Rootschat.The marriage on North Wales BMD states that it was a William Robert Phillips that married Mary Ann Haustead in 1845.There is a death of a William Robert Phillips in the Corwen District in 1855.Llangollen BMD events were recorded in the Corwen District.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi and welcome from me, too :)
I see on the 1851 that William was born Llangollen circa 1823. I have the parish records for here and will try to find a baptism for him later today. This should give the name of his parents.
Mary Ann is down as being born London at about the same time. There are some possibles on the familysearch site:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k3f/
Regards
gnu
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Morning gnu!I was thinking of asking whether perhaps PP has an exact birthplace for Mary Anne?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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The Wrexham Advertiser,December 02, 1882;
Death notice.
WINSTANLEY. Nov 29th aged 65 at 52 New St Mold, Mary relict of the late Mr Robert Winstaley of Liverpool and the last surviving daughter of the late Mrs A Phillips, Hand Hotel, Llangollen .
Mary was born c 1817 Llangollen
ADDITION
Robert and Mary Winstanley
In 1841 Mary is at Bache Isa , Llangollen with her three children, there is an elder son Robert aged 5 years, Her husband Robert is not there. She is described as Ind.
There is a Robert Winstanley 35 a labourer on his own in Wigan that could be him
In 1851 they are at Covent Garden, St Pauls, Middlesex , where Robert is an agent to a picture dealer.
The son Robert died in 1843, death registered Corwen.
Robert 47 b Liverpool
Mary 34 b Llangollen
Phillip 14 b Llangollen
Turner 12 b Barton upon Medlock, Manchester
1861 they are living in Liverpool where he is an auctioneer .
Probate. 10 th April. 1865.
Robert Winstanley died on 10th Feb 1865, at Vine St, Liverpool, Auctioneer,
probate proved by oath of Mary Winstanley of Rhyl, widow and sole exectrutix.
In 1871 Mary is a lodger in Rhyl, she is an Auctioneers widow.
1881 she is a visitor at 12 Rhos Street, Llanrhydd , and is an annuitant.
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Morning WR.
I've been mountaineering again to find my records (sorting out my collections is a bit daunting!)
Anyway, here's the baptism - seems hotelling was a family business:
Llangollen 19 July 1822 William Robert Phillips s/o Joseph Phillips, innkeeper, and Amy.
So, the inn was Joseph's to start with.
Will check back later if I find more on this couple.
gnu
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Another snippet from the parish records:
Burial, Llangollen 27 April 1838 Joseph Phillips, Hand Hotel, aged 63.
gnu
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I see that some of the baptisms of Joseph and Amy's children are now online.
These from the Llangollen parish records:
7 Sept 1813 Jane Phillips d/o Joseph (innkeepr) and Emey
23 Jan 1818 Suzanne Philips d/o Joseph (innkeeper) and Emmy
18 July 1819 Joseph Peploe Phillips s/o Joseph (innkeeper) and Amy
27 May 1821 Amey Phillips d/o Joseph(innkeeper) and Amy
gnu
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On 1851, HO1207/2509/492/4 Amy is down as aged 60 and born Birmingham.
Think that might be where we find them.
A sister, Jane Richards, unmarried is with her. So Amy Richards m Joseph Phillips
Also, daughter Amy, married a solicitor named Smith - will look up later if you don't have.
gnu
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Death for a William Robert Phillips, Dec q, 1855, Corwen 11b 259
and probably his mother Amey two years later:
Sep q, 1857, Corwen, Amey Phillips 11b 242
Not found anything for Mary Ann so far.
gnu
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gnu beat me to it with 1851. I`ll still post what I have,
Church Street Llangollen.
Amey Phillips 60 innkeeper b Birmingam
Jane Richards 61 sister b “
Jane Phillips 36 innkeppers dau b Llangollen
Anny Smith dau 29 M solicitors wife b Llangollen
Abgail Smith 9 solicitors daughter b Dublin
John Joseph Smith nephew 3 months solicitors son b Llangollen
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Another snippet - William Robert's sister, Amy:
Marriage ~
March q, 1850, Corwen 27 223
Amey Phillips and John Smith on the same page
Was this a second marriage for John Smith?
The 1851 relationships to Amy, snr, look strange:
Amey Smith, daughter, mar, 29, solicitor's wife, b. Llangollen
Abigail Smith, visitor, 9, solicitor's daughter, b. Dublin
John Joseph Smith, nephew, 3 mths, solicitor's son, b. Llangollen
I think that John Joseph looks more like Amy's grandson (son of daughter, Amy) than nephew. Birth Reg - mar q, 1851, Corwen, 27, 146
I don't see the Smith family in 1861 so far.
gnu
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It looks as if Mary Ann Haustead married an Edward Edwards after William Robert Phillips died:
Wrexham Advertizer 19 Jan 1861
Deaths
On the 13th inst, aged 38, Mary Ann, wife of Mr Ed Edwards, of Regent House, Regent Street, Llangollen, and widow of the late W. R Phillips, esq., of the Hand Hotel, Llangollen
(Marriage Mar q, 1858, Corwen 11b 540
Mary Ann Phillips and Edward Edwards on the same page)
also - same newspaper
Feb 20 1858
Deaths
On the 10th inst, at the Hand Hotel, Llangollen, Amy, youngest daughter of the late Mrs Amy Phillips, at the above hotel
It doesn't mention Smith
gnu
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Its no wonder Mary didn't show in the 1861!I did look after seeing the possible marriage on North Wales BMD.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Trying to summarise what we've found to see what gaps we need to fill:
1. Joseph Phillips (c 1775 - 1838) m Amy Richards (circa 1791 - 1857)
Children:
1813 Jane ~ on 1851 with mother
c 1817 Mary m. Robert Winstanley d. 1882
1818 Suzanne ~ buried 7 March 1819, aged about 1 yr
1819 Joseph Peploe ~ on 1841 with mother* d 1844
1821 Amey ?m 1850 John Smith d 1858
1822 William Robert m 1845 Mary Ann Haustead
2 William Robert Phillips (1822-1855) m 1845 Mary Ann Haustead ( circa 1823-1861)
Children:
c 1948 Amy
1949 Alice
1851 Frank W
1852 Ada
Mary Ann Haustead (as Phillips) m (2) Edward Edwards 1858
gnu
Added -
Death
Mar q 1844, Corwen Joseph Peploe Phillips 27 115
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Baner Cymru, Wed Dec 9, 1857
Aug 27, at Walton House, Llangollen, age 69, Amy, widow of the late Mr Joseph Phillips, proprietor of the Hand Hotel, Llangollen, for many years.....
regards
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Thanks - we have her GRO death index ref so nice that she got in the papers as well :)
The National Libary has an online Will/Bond for William Robert Phillips, 1856 (St Asaph Probate Records).
Also a will for Joseph Phillips in 1838
http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&lng=en
I'm on my laptop so can't read them very well.
gnu
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Thank you everyone. I am absolutely overwhelmed by all the information.
Mary Ann Haustead was the daughter of an Elizabeth Maxwell so that is most likely her with a father Thomas and born in London..
Thank you for the link to William Phillips' will and the death date and remarriage date of Mary Ann. They may answer a lot of questions. I still wonder why the 4 Phillips children would be living apart from their parents in 1851 when both were still living.
Mary Ann Haustead at age 15 was living with Mary Roberts (1841 census) widow of a John, butcher in Llangollen. Mary Roberts died in 1845 and left many farms and also properties in Llangollen , behind the Hand Hotel to various people including Mary Ann who was noted as being the daughter of her niece Elizabeth Maxwell. Mary Ann had a sister Emma also of Llangollen. Some property was also left to my ggg grandmother, also a niece and I am trying to form a relationship between Mary Roberts and the recipients of her will and in particular my ggg grandmother. I do not know Mary's maiden name. She was apparently a very wealthy lady and had no children.
Of the children of Mary Ann and William Phillips I think only one girl married.
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Hi
I'm confused - you said:
I still wonder why the 4 Phillips children would be living apart from their parents in 1851 when both were still living.
The two children of Mary Ann and William Phillips were living with them in 1851. The other 2 were still to be born. This was the census that you quoted in your first posting.
In the 1851 census Mary Ann and William, who was listed as Post master, had two children ,Amy and Alice.
By 1861 Amy age 12 .Alice 11 , Frank W. 9 and Ada Phillips 7 were living in a lodging house with two spinster sisters.
By 1861, both parents were dead (William in 1855 and Mary Ann in Jan 1861) and the children were boarders, as you said.
gnu
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Sorry my mistake-not looking at my notes. It was 1861 of course and now I know that both parents were dead.
Thanks for putting me right .
pink petunia
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Hi again
If you'd like, I'll see what I can find about Mary Roberts for you. It might take a day or two as I'm sorting through my collection local records at the moment.
gnu
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Thank you gnu I would really appreciate that.
From what little I have I know she owned houses 102.103 and 104 Llangollen Fawr. These she left to her niece, my ggg grandmother, Mary Jones.
She also owned 5 other properties in Llangollen in London Rd /Chapel St as well as a farm called Bwlch-y-dongay in the parish of Llansilin.
Her will gives lots of names ,mostly Jones , and the two girls Mary Ann and Elizabeth Emma Haustead , great nieces.I missed the Elizabeth off before--another slip up!!
I would dearly love to know how she is related or whether it is through her husband who had already died. The will was huge but took a lot of deciphering because of the legal language used.
Any information will be a help.
Thank you
pink petunia
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Hi PP :)
It is indeed a very long will! I've been looking at it in parts on the National Library site. I note that Mary Ann Haustead was a residual legatee (I think I have that right :-\ ) I recognised many of the places mentioned as I grews up in the area and went to school in Llangollen.
Was your ggg grandmother, Mary Jones by birth or by marriage, and do you have her date/place of birth and her parents names? This would help to chase the links.
gnu
PS - just found Bwlchydonge on a map. It's very close to Tynydrain, where one of my Jones lines lived :D
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Mary Jones (ggg grandmother) was Jones by marriage. Wife of Edward of Clust y blaidd.
If I have the right one, Edward died 1837 (I have his will)
Names of the children in his will fit with the 1841 census. After that I have nothing.
pink petunia
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Easy link to the wills. ;)
Phillips, Joseph, Llangollen, Denbigh, Innkeeper
Joseph Phillips : will, 1838
http://hdl.handle.net/10107/2479
Phillips, William Robert, Llangollen, Denbigh, Gent
William Robert Phillips : bond, 1856
http://hdl.handle.net/10107/431493
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Could this be the right Amy , the place of birth is a match.
Amy Richards
Christening Date: 19 Mar 1788 St. Philip's, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father's Name: William Richards
Mother's Name: Susanna
And here is Jane. :)
Jane Richards
Christening Date: 21 Dec 1786 St. Philip's, Birmingham, Warwick, England
Father's Name: William Richards
Mother's Name: Susanna
Rebecca Richards
Christening Date: 07 Oct 1784 SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
Father's Name: William Richards
Mother's Name: Susanna
Sarah Richards
christening: 31 Aug 1789 SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
residence: Warwick, England
parents: William Richards, Susanna
William Richards
christening: 15 May 1794 SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND
residence: Warwick, England
parents: William Richards, Susanna
Susanna Richards
christening: 04 Apr 1797 SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,
residence: Warwick, England
parents: William Richards, Susanna
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Hi PP
Moving to Mary Roberts. I've so far found the burial of John Roberts, Mary's husband, and his will. Nov 1817. He owned Bwlchydonge (recently purchased when he died). Other properties in Llangollen and he left his estate, apart from funeral expences, to Mary*. It was stated that estate was worth under £1000 (compared with under £600 for Mary).
I note that Clust y blaidd where Mary and Edward Jones lived was in the parish of Cerrigydrudion.
gnu
* see later posting
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Was this your ggg grandmother in 1841 (It fits the names in Edward's will)
Clsytyblaidd
HO107/1402/1/18/6
Mary Jones, 45, farmer
Jane, 20
Mary, 15
Sarah, 15
John, 12
David, ?
(none born county)
and 5 farm servants
gnu
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Sadly, by 1851, your Jones family have moved from Clystyblaidd (HO107/2509/19/7) and a Thomas Jones is head. Do you know where they went?
gnu
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I've just read a bit more of John Roberts' will. It's difficult in that little window that the NLW provides but it is for free!
John Roberts had a sister, Mary, who was married to a John Jones. She was left £30.
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I see that Elizabeth Emma Haustead is living with an Ann Evans in the 1841. Ann is down as Independant and neither are born county. They're next door or in the same house (not household) to your Mary Roberts and Mary Ann. I'm sure I saw an Ann Evans mentioned in Mary Roberts' will.
gnu
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1851
London Road, Llangollen
HO107/2509/503/26
Ann Evans, unm, 50, lodging house (?keeper), b. Merionethshire
Elizabeth Emma Haustead, niece, b. London
-...my niece Ann Evans................... in her will
gnu
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I've attempted to list the benefactors of Mary Roberts' will:
John Jones and Ebenezer Cooper- executors and residual legatees?
My niece Ann Evans
My niece Sarah, wife of Thomas Jones, Tir a Llannerch, Corwen. Her son, John Jones
Mary, my niece, wife of Edward Jones of Clyst y blaidd
Mary Anne Haustead, daughter of my late niece Elizabeth Maxwell
Elizabeth Emma Haustead, her sister
Child or children of the body of David Evans of Llangollen, my nephew - not clear if David Evans is the son of Ann or her brother. He is left 5 shillings weekly, paid monthly, from the estates left to Ann Evvans and Mary Ann Haustead.
Also mentioned - four youngest children of my nephew David Evans.
I think the Evans link is worth further investigation - it might well be the key link!
gnu
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Most likely David Evans in 1841 - he does have 4 children listed as well and is a butcher!
Salop Road, Llangollen
HO107/1400/13/8/10
David Evans, 45, butcher, not b. county
Mary, 45, b -do-
John, 21, ? shoe(make)r, b. county
Anne, 14, b. -do-
David, 11, b. -do-
Henry, 9, b. -do-
Maybe this David Evans took over John Roberts' trade - possible anyway :-\
gnu
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In 1851
London Road, Llangollen
HO107/2509/502/24
David Evans, 55, Butcher
Mary, wife, 54, b. Oswestry
John s, unm, 30, shoemaker
Thomas, s, 28, unm, Tailor
David, s,21, unm, Weaver
Henry, s, 19, unm, Painter
Mary, d, 25, unm, Dressmaker
Ann, da, 12, scholar
Elizabeth, d, 4, scholar
All but Mary, b. Llangollen
They seem to cover most of the main trades!
gnu
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Sarah Jones, niece and wife of Thomas Jones
1851
Tirllannerch,Corwen
HO107/2509/242/9
Thomas Jones, 55, Farmer
Sarah, w, 53, farmer's wife
John, son, 27, Attorney
All b. Corwen
plus 6 servants
(Still there in 1861 - RG9/4311/44/4 )
There is an interesting baptism in Corwen:
21 Oct 1798 Sarah Evans d/o Henry (deceased) and Anne of Pen y Coed
This led me to:
31 March 1796 Anne Evans d/o Henry and Anne of Pen y Coed.
Interesting!
gnu
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Full list of children of Henry Evans and Anne of Pen y Coed at Corwen:
7 May 1789 Mary - this could possibly be your ggg grandmother
15 May 1791 Elizabeth
27 Sept 1793 David
31 March 1796 Anne
21 Oct 1798 Sarah
Henry Evans, Pen y Coed was buried 4 June 1798
All, except Elizabeth, match up with will and/or censuses. I think it's worth exploring this line.
gnu
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Hi again
I now have a theory that the Elizabeth Maxwell might well have been Elizabeth Evans (b. 1791Corwen) - see this
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N6J3-48Q
Thomas Haustead married Elizabeth Evans, 19 May 1821, Clement Danes, Westminster.
They then had Mary Ann in April 1823, St Martins in the Fields .
Not sure where the Maxwell comes from - could Elizabeth have married a second time or could it have been a middle name.
This would mean that your 3 x grandmother and Elizabeth, Sarah and Anne were sisters and David was a brother. All children of Henry Evans and Anne.
gnu
added - location of Pen y coed where they were all born:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k3w/
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Thank you gnu --what a lot of work. I think that is Mary in the 1841. David her son my gg grandfather. All this came from his selling of his share in his mothers inheritance which gave me the names.I can't pinpoint his birth in 1833 or thereabouts and the census states "not born in county". I did think Llanuwychylln but not sure as I am not familiar with distances in the area.
I agree with your Evans theory so than you for that and also Elizabeth and Thomas Haustead.she must have married twice. I will follow along the Evans theory.
That leaves Mary Roberts still. I wonder where her wealth came from. Do you think she was a sister of Henry Evans?
pink petunia
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Hi
I'm thinking that she was either Henry or Anne's sister. She seems to be concerned mainly with the female line. I can't find a will for Henry but he could have died intestate as it seems sudden and no age given on the burial record. There maybe might be a tombstone in Corwen.
I've not found a good match for a marriage for her and John Roberts but have only looked at Mary Evanses so far. Most of her wealth seems to have been inherited from John and rents from the properties. His will refers to the Llansilin estate and various messuages, tenements and dwellings, etc. in Llangollen. Also, his personal wealth was valued in 1817 at more than Mary's in 1845.
I've got the neighbouring parish registers (including the Penllyn parishes) so will have a look at those tomorrow to see if I can find anything but I've got a few commitments so might not be able to get on with things as quickly.
It might be worth you doing a trawl of the online wills at the Nat Lib site - link previously given.
gnu
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Sorry, I missed this:
Thank you gnu --what a lot of work. I think that is Mary in the 1841. David her son my gg grandfather. All this came from his selling of his share in his mothers inheritance which gave me the names.I can't pinpoint his birth in 1833 or thereabouts and the census states "not born in county".
pink petunia
Do you have on him censuses after the 1841? And, if so, where does it say he was born?
David Jones b.c. 1833 will not be easy to find :-\
gnu
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Is this a posssible in 1851
Tyn Waen, Hafody
HO107/2509/50/11
John Owen, 47, farmer, b. Llanfihangel, Mer
......
......
David Jones, serv, unm, 18, farm labourer, b. Cerrigydrudion
Although he was 'not born county' according to whoever filled in the form in 1841 when he was 8/9, he might well have thought he was born CyD later.
I see the Llanuwchllyn one in Trewyn - farm labourer to an Edward Roberts HO107/2509/315/10
gnu
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Good news
I've just found a Bond, etc for Henry Evans of Pen y Coed:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k43/
The site was playing up earlier so maybe that's why it didn't show.
I'll go read it now
gnu
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That is amazing. Lots of work for me to do now.
I cannot find David in the 1851 at all and he had gone abroad by 1861.
Can I send you an email with an attachment . As I am new to this I am not sure what to do. I looked at the PM page to you but could not see how to attach a document.
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I'll PM (personal message) you with my e-mail address so you can send it to me.
We don't put e-mail addresses up on the public boards because of spammers, etc.
Also, you can't add attachments to PMs so you were doing OK :)
gnu
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Just to say that the 1825 Bond links Anne Evans, widow of Henry Evans of Pen y Coed to Thomas Jones of Tirllannerch, so I think we have the correct family :)
gnu
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Found the will of Anne Evans senior (the widow of Henry Evans of Pen y Coed, Corwen). She too had moved to Llangollen, but died a year too soon to appear in the 1841 census. She seems to name most of the right people as legatees. See http://hdl.handle.net/10107/752242
pink petunia
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St Asaph Marriage Bond 1790 John Roberts bachelor, Butcher, Llangollen and Mary Jones spinster, minor Llangwm at Llangwm
Marriage Llangwm 23rd July 1790 John Roberts, bachelor otp and Mary Jones spinster otp. Witt John Roberts, Palfrey Rowland, Henry Evans
Bapt Llangwm Mary daughter of John and Jane Jones 4th September 1771. This appears to be their only child baptised at Llangwm
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Sarah Evans spinster otp married Thomas Jones bachelor otp 1 May 1823 by Licence at Llangollen
Sarah Jones died 12 Jan 1871 at Ivy House, Corwen and was buried at Carrog
Thomas Jones son of Thomas and Catherine Jones of Tir llanerch was baptised at Carrog 1st December 1796
Thomas Jones of Tir llanerch, Farmer died at Tir llanerch 15 July 1863
Thomas Jones of Tir llanerch was buried at Carrog 16th July 1863
John son of Thomas and Sarah Jones, Tir llanerch was baptised 21 Nov 1826 at Carrog
John Jones of Tir llanerch, Solicitor, died at Tir llanerch 14 December 1852 and was buried at Carrog
There is a box tomb by the porch of Carrog Church to these three
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Correction
Llangollen
Thomas Jones of Corwen bachelor and Sarah Evans otp spinster married by Licence with the consent of those who by law is required 1 May 1823
Witt John Jones and John Phillips
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Thank you red dragon. These look promising. I will go back to my notes and have a good look in the morning. I am in New Zealand. The Jones' are not easy to trace and get the right family from here---but getting there with a lot of help from rootschat members.
pp
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Public Record Office, Kew
PROB31/1260/1389
Exhibit 1828/1389 Thomas Haustead of Orchard Street, Westminister, Middlesex. Probate inventory or declaration of the estate of the same, deceased
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North Wales Chronicle 19th February 1850
7th instant at Llangollen by the Rev W Edwards MA vicar, Amey youngest daughter of Mrs Phillips, Hand Hotel to John Smith Esq, solicitor, Roscrea, Ireland
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Derwen Parish Register
Henry Evans of the parish of Corwen bachelor and Anne Jones otp spinster were married by Licence 31st October 1788. Henry Evans Anne Jones Witt John Lloyd and Edward Edwards
Llangollen Parish Register
1845 William Robert Phillips bachelor farmer son of Joseph Phillips Inn Keeper and Mary Ann Haustead spinster daughter of Thomas Haustead Inn Keeper were married 10th July
1858 Edward Edwards bachelor Wine Merchant aged 32 son of Richard Edwards farmer and Mary Ann Phillips widow aged 34 daughter of Thomas Haustead Inn Keeper were married 5 March
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Principle Probate Registry
16th January 1875 The Will of Anne otherwise Ann Evans late of Berwyn Street in the Town of Llangollen in the County of Denbigh who died 30th December 1874 at Berwyn Street was proved at the Principle Registry by John Jones of Trewynfaur near Corwen in the County of Merioneth Farmer and Amey Phillips of the Castle Hotel in the Town of Ruthin in the County of Denbigh Spinster the Executors Effects under £2000
20th May 1943 Phillips Ada of Brynffynon Road Llantysilio Denbighshire spinster died 11th April 1943 Probate Llandudno 20th May to John Leighton Parker land agent Effects £1932-19-4
11th February 1935 Parker Amey of Maesyderwen Chirk Denbighshire widow died 3rd January 1935 Probate London 11th February to John Leighton Parker land agent Effects £2070-9-9
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Principle Probate Registry
6th May 1933 Phillips Frank William of The North Wales Counties Mental Hospital Denbigh Denbighshire died 18th January 1933 Administration London 6th May to Amey Parker widow Effects £917-17-10 Former Grant (in the name of Frederick William Phillips) PR 13th March 1933 revoked
15th February 1861
Special Letters of Administration (with the Will annexed) of all and singular the Personal Estate and effects of Mary Ann Edwards (wife of Edward Edwards) late of Llangollen in the County of Denbigh deceased who died 13th January 1861 at Llangollen aforesaid were granted at St Asaph to the said Edward Edwards of Llangollen aforesaid Corn Factor the lawful husband of the said deceased and the sole Executor named in the said Will he having been first sworn Effects under £100
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Principle Probate Registry
30th JUne 1873 Haustead Elizabeth Emma The Will of Elizabeth Emma Haustead late of Llangollen in the County of Denbigh Spinster who died 9th November 1872 at Llangollen was proved at St Asaph by Anne Evans of Llangollen Spinster the Aunt the sole executor
Llangollen Parish Register
15th May 1793 John Jones otp bachelor and Mary Roberts spinster were married by Licence Witt M Evans and Thomas Jones
6th November 1817 John Roberts was buried aged 54 years
24 July 1818 David Evans Carrier bachelor and Mary Rogers otp spinster with consent of parents were married by Banns Witt William Roberts and Elizabeth Baker
19th July 1822 William Robert Phillips son of Joseph Inn Keeper and Amy was baptised 19th July
27th March 1845 Mary Roberts was buried aged 74 years
7th November 1855 William Robert Phillips was buried aged 33 years
17th January 1861 Mary Ann Edwards, Regent House, Regent Strert was buried aged 38 years
There is an impressive sand stone "threepenny piece shaped" memorial to the Phillips family of the Hand Hotel, unfortunately it is badely eroded
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Amey Phillips married William Parker 1888
Census 1891 Plas y Wern, Chirk
William Parker - Estate Agent - aged 31 born Brigg, Lincolnshire
Amey Parker wife aged 37 born Llangollen
John Leighton Parker son aged 1 born Chirk
Robert Leighton Parker son aged 3 months born Chirk
Margaret Parker motheraged 58 born Brookeasy, Lincolnshire
Elizabeth Parker sister aged 26 born Brigg Lincolnshire
+Cook and Nurse
Census 1901 Plas yr Wern, Chirk
William Parker - Estate Agent aged 41
Amey Parker wife aged 45
John L Parker son aged 11
Robert L Parker son aged 10
Census 1911 Plas y Wern - Nine rooms
Wm Parker aged 51
Amey Parker aged 62
Robert Leighton Parker aged 20
Sarah Helen Green aged 48 single, visitor
+ two domestic servants
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Frank William Phillips
Census 1871
Lodging in Fairfield Street, Wrexham aged 19 and of independent means
Census 1881
Border with sister Ada, aged 28 and 27in Oswestry, both Annuitants
Census 1891
Boarder in Selsea, Gloucestershire aged 40, Living on own means
Census 1901
Boarder in Eastbury, Berkshire aged 49, Living on own means
Census 1911
Lodger in Brockhampton, Berkshire aged 59, Independent means
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Chirk Churchyard
Cross surmounting a three square stepped base
In
Beloved Memory of
William Parker
of Plas y Wern, Chirk
1859 - 1930
and of Amey his wife
Died 3rd January 1935
aged 86
Census 1871
Alice Phillips aged 21 Assistant Teacher Kingsbury Staffordshire, born Llangollen
Census 1881
Ada Phillips aged 18 years Boarder Bryn Hyfyd, Dinbren (Llangollen) born LLangollen
Census 1881 Ada with brother in Oswestry
Census 1891
Ada Phillips aged 37 Boarder at Balsalll Heath, Worcestershire, Living on own means, born Langollen
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Census 1871 Ruthin
Amey Phillips aged 22 Goveness born Llogollen
Census 1881 Ruthin
Amey Phillips aged 31 No occupation born Langollen
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Sarah Evans spinster otp married Thomas Jones bachelor otp 1 May 1823 by Licence at Llangollen
Sarah Jones died 12 Jan 1871 at Ivy House, Corwen and was buried at Carrog
Thomas Jones son of Thomas and Catherine Jones of Tir llanerch was baptised at Carrog 1st December 1796
Thomas Jones of Tir llanerch, Farmer died at Tir llanerch 15 July 1863
Thomas Jones of Tir llanerch was buried at Carrog 16th July 1863
John son of Thomas and Sarah Jones, Tir llanerch was baptised 21 Nov 1826 at Carrog
John Jones of Tir llanerch, Solicitor, died at Tir llanerch 14 December 1852 and was buried at Carrog
There is a box tomb by the porch of Carrog Church to these three
Hi,
I found your note about the Jones' at Carrog Church. I am researching W.John Jones of Plas Isaf & latterly from Tir Llannerch (born c1801) The John Jones above (John Jones of Tir llanerch, Solicitor, died at Tir Llanerch 14 December 1852 and was buried at Carrog) Do you know how old he was in 1852? Any help appreciated, I am not local so unsure of area.......thanks
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Hi gower :)
At the 1851 census, John Jones was unmarried, 27, attorney, b. Corwen:
HO107/2509/242/9
Sarah Jones, niece and wife of Thomas Jones
1851
Tirllannerch,Corwen
HO107/2509/242/9
Thomas Jones, 55, Farmer
Sarah, w, 53, farmer's wife
John, son, 27, Attorney
All b. Corwen
plus 6 servants
added - he appears to be one and the same of:
John son of Thomas and Sarah Jones, Tir llanerch was baptised 21 Nov 1826 at Carrog
John Jones of Tir llanerch, Solicitor, died at Tir llanerch 14 December 1852 and was buried at Carrog
brevitas
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thank you not the same family....... thanks
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Hi
Ive just found the subject, and will add some comments to various posts. Sorry if this has a repeat of something already reported but the entire topic is all too much to remember
Mary Ann Haustead's parents were Thomas Haustead and Elizabeth Evans
(sorry no records of proof atm)
her first marriage was to William Robert Phillips (1823-1855)
Her children previously listed
second marriage to Edward Edwards (no more details atm)
pgen
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Of the children of William Robert Phillips and Mary Ann
Amey married William Parker (b 1859 Brigg, Lincolnshire)
children
1- John leighton parker (1889 - 1968) - went to Cornwall
2- Robert leighton Parker (1891- 1959) - may have worked on ships - died in Sussex
can give you more detail if asked (pm me offline)
pgen
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William Parker came from a large family in Brigg, Lincolshire, but in 1881 Census he and his sister Annie Parker, were staying with/working for their uncle Elias Griffith in Chirk
Elias Griffith ran the Hand Hotel (not sure if owner or licencee). His wife, Ann (nee Leighton) was sister to William & Annies mother, and had died before the 1881 Census so Im assuming William & Annie came to Chirk to represent the family and help out.
Annie Parker was my great-grandmother and married William Thomas Peate from around the general Oswestry >Llangollen area and in 1892 they moved with their family to New Zealand.
I can give full details of the Peate line if wanted (pm me offline)
pgen
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I would be interested to know if there was some other relationship or connection between the Phillips and Elias Griffith, that he came to take over the hotel from Amy Phillips
pgen
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Sorry, I have only just come across this topic as I have only recently discovered that my ggg grandfather John Smith was married a second time to Amey Phillips of the Hand Hotel Llangollen. His daughter Abigail (my gg grandmother) was Amey's stepdaughter in the 1851 Census. Due to the fact that so many Irish records have been destroyed, I cant find out what happened to her son John Joseph Smith after Amey died in 1858. To be honest, I find the situation strange in that she appeared to live in Llangollen (she died there) and her husband lived in Ireland! How did they even meet in the first place?
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North Wales Marriage indexes for the years: 1850
SMITH John / Phillips Amey . Llangollen, St Collen Denbighshire .
They married in Llangollen Parish Church.
The record is on FindMyPast. Maybe the entry will give some clues.
SMITH JOHN — — 1850 Denbigh Marriages Pontfadog, Denbighshire,
PHILLIPS AMEY — — 1850 Denbigh Marriages Pontfadog, Denbighshire, Wales
North Wales Chronicle Feb 19 1850
Marriage
On the 7th inst at Llangollen Church by the Rev W A Edwards vicar M.A. , Amey youngest daughter of Mrs Phillips, Hand Hotel Llangollen to John Smith esq. solicitor Roscrea, Ireland.
1851.
Church Street Llangollen.
Amey Phillips 60 innkeeper b Birmingam
Jane Richards 61 sister b “
Jane Phillips 36 innkeppers dau b Llangollen
Anny ( Amey) Smith dau 29 M solicitors wife b Llangollen
Abgail Smith 9 solicitors daughter b Dublin
John Joseph Smith nephew 3 months solicitors son b Llangollen
So where is John Smith in 1851?
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This is quite odd.
Free BMD
Deaths Mar 1858
Smith Amy Corwen 11b 334
Wrexham Advertiser Feb 20 1858
PHILLIPS.
On the 10th inst at Llangollen, Anne , youngest daughter of the late Mrs Phillips of the Hand Hotel .
Cheshire Observer Feb 20 1858
Death On the 140th inst Amy youngest daughter of the late Amy Phillips at the Hand Hotel
There is no death on BMD for an Anne Phillips in that qtr , so is this Amy Smith. If so why is she not named as such.
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It was Amy Phillips who died as reported.
I would think that spelling her name as Anne was a reporter or papers error (probably not a 1st hand account).
The younger John Joseph Smith in 1861 census is probably
1861 Census
Shropshire, Ellesmere, District 7, p38/41 [references from Ancestry pages]
John Smith, 10 Pupil at the Vicarage, Ellesmere, born Llangollen, Denbighshire
And a guess for the 1871 census - though the age is slightly out - it would seem likely if he received money and property from his mothers death
1871 Census
Cheshire, Tranmere, district 3 p22
John Smith, boarder, 23, land and property income, born Llangollen
After that there are so many John Smiths in England & Wales it would be hard to find either the father or son - not including any chance that they went back to Ireland.
I have not yet found the elder John Smith in 1851 so am assuming he's in Ireland
I would say that Amey Smith probably stayed in Llangollen to help her mother Amey Phillips [died 27 Aug 1857] run the hotel.
Im still trying to trace the whereabouts some of Amey Smith/Phillips siblings
Can you share any details of Abigail Smith's time after 1851?
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Just for clarity on some of the previous posts, there are 2 Hand Hotels
The Hand in Llangollen was run by the Phillips family
The Hand in Chirk was run by Elias Griffith
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It was Amy Phillips who died as reported.
I would say that Amey Smith probably stayed in Llangollen to help her mother Amey Phillips [died 27 Aug 1857] run the hotel.
SMITH AMEY 1821 1858 Denbigh Burials Pontfadog, Denbighshire,
Deaths Mar 1858 Smith Amy
I`m confused, there is no record of a death for Amey Phillips in 1858, but I was wondering why both newspaper reports use her maiden name and there is no mention of her husband John Smith.
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Your record for Amy Smith would be right as she married John Smith in 1850 so no other record for the death of Amey Phillips in 1858
Her mother, also Amey Phillips [nee Richards] died 27 Aug 1857
Baner Cymru, Wed Dec 9, 1857 Deaths
Aug 27, at Walton House, Llangollen, age 69, Amy, widow of the late Mr Joseph Phillips, proprietor of the Hand Hotel, Llangollen, for many years.
Probate (16 Mar 1858)
The Will with Codicil of Amey Phillips late of llangollen in the county of Denbighshire deceased who died 27 Aug 1857 at llangollen aforesaid was proved at St Asaph by the oaths of Ebenezer Cooper of Llangollen aforesaid currier and Robert Baker of the same place Maltster the executors.
Given that the census record was taken at a single instant in time, John Smith could have been away - either temporarily on business or visiting, or maybe had returned to Ireland - did he have other children there?
I haven't yet found him locally to Denbighshire or Shropshire
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The newspaper just called Amy (Smith) the daughter of Amey Phillips.
Probably this is how she was better known in the area - i.e. Amy Smith might not have meant as much in Llangollen
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Sorry everyone, have been busy all week and have only now looked at new posts. John Smith worked as a solicitor in Ireland, first in Dublin when he was married to his first wife and then in the Midlands. I have not been able to establish when he died but am working on it! His daughter Abigail married in Ireland in 1864 and was widowed and married again in 1870 to my gg grandfather. She died in 1880 at the age of 38 following childbirth complications (in Ireland). I am assuming Amey spent a lot of time in Llangollen helping her mother. I have her marriage cert from December 1850 but there is not much additional info on it. I also have John Joseph's birth cert and Amey's death cert but again no new info. I will have a look at the Census possibilities that have been put forward for John Joseph Smith.
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I have been researching the Winstanley family tree. Mary Phillips 1817-1882 born Llangollen married Robert Winstanley, son of the renowned Liverpool & Manchester Auctioneer, Thomas Winstanley, in Llangollen, 1835. On her gravestone, gravestone.https://billiongraves.com/grave/Mary-Phillips-Winstanley/22652471 she is the daughter of Mr & Mrs Phillips of the Hand Hotel. Her birth in 1817 lists her parents as Elis & Mary, not Joseph & Amey. Could Elis be Joseph's brother? Mary & Robert had 3 sons, Robert 1835-1843, Phillips 1836-1909, Turner 1838-1893. Phillips would carry on the family auction tradition in London. Turner (after his grandmother, Ann Turner) became a Vet Surgeon and moved from London back to Mold in Wales
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Joseph Phillips married Amey Richards in Shrewsbury, Shropshire. on 1st April 1812. Amey's residence is St Julian, Salop.
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Mary Phillips 1817-1882 born Llangollen married Robert Winstanley, son of the renowned Liverpool & Manchester Auctioneer, Thomas Winstanley, in Manchester, 1835.
This marriage appears to have taken place in Pontfadog, Llangollen 26 Feb 1835 - both parties resident Llangollen.
Newspaper report confirms that Robert was 'of Manchester' and Mary's father was Joseph Phillips of Hand Hotel.
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There was a Joseph Phillips christened 19th Feb 1775 in Melverley, Shropshire, son of Robert & Jane Phillips.
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Sorry, Rosie99. You are correct. I took it from the marriage notice in Manchester newspaper. Thanks.
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Mary Phillips whose parents were Ellis & Mary was baptised in Rhosllanerchrigog (Non conformist) The family were of the parish of Ruabon and Ellis was a 'Collier'
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Thanks rosie99. Wrong Mary I had.
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Mary Phillips 1817-1882 born Llangollen married Robert Winstanley, son of the renowned Liverpool & Manchester Auctioneer, Thomas Winstanley, in Manchester, 1835.
This marriage appears to have taken place in Pontfadog, Llangollen 26 Feb 1835 - both parties resident Llangollen.
Newspaper report confirms that Robert was 'of Manchester' and Mary's father was Joseph Phillips of Hand Hotel.
Just to say that it would have been Llangollen rather than Pontfadog. FindMyPast has misindexed quite a lot of the Llangollen records as Pontfadog. Pontfadog didn't become a separate parish until April 1848:
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Pontfadog
Very annoying of them - quite a few of my ancestors' records were among them.
Gadget
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Thanks, Gadget.
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Thanks, Gadget.
Thanks from me too ;D
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They've done it to quite a few of the parishes - Brymbo instead of Wrexham is another one.
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Amey Phillips (Richards) was christened 19th March 1788, St Phillips (Ironically), Birmingham, daughter of William & Susanna. Her sister, Jane, also christened at St Phillips, 21st Dec 1786. They always lie about their age in census. She had 4 other siblings, Rebecca, 1784, Sarah, 1789, William, 1794 & Susanna, 1797.
Another revelation is that their mother was Susanna PHILLIPS. They were married in St Martins, Birmingham, 18th April, 1783
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They always lie about their age in census.
People often did not know how old they were (or where they were born), there was not the readily available documentation that there is now.
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Am following this topic with renewed interest as I am no further on in my research since my last post 4 years ago. John Joseph Smith the grandson of Amey Phillips (nee Richards) has proved impossible to find. I have his birth cert (parents Amey Phillips & John Smith 8th Dec 1850) and he is in a boarding school in the 1861 census. I think that the John Smith in Tranmere Cheshire, with Land Property income is the last record I have for him. With the name John Smith, he is a mystery man. Help!
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There were 2 deaths of a John Smith recorded in Ellesmere, Shropshire in 1862 & 1863. But other than that, no trace on subsequent census.
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There were 2 deaths of a John Smith recorded in Ellesmere, Shropshire in 1862 & 1863. But other than that, no trace on subsequent census.
From GRO index https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp
SMITH, JOHN age 0
1862 June Quarter in ELLESMERE Volume 06A Page 437
SMITH, JOHN age 75
1863 June Quarter in ELLESMERE Volume 06A Page 509
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Thank you Rosie. John Smith would have been aged about 12 in 1862/3. So that's not him in either death cert. Back to the drawing board!
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Have you been able to trace his father, John & sister, Abigail?
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Yes insofar as John Smith lived in Ireland and died in 1866 (I can't find any other death cert that would match) and Abigail married and died following childbirth in 1880. Some of her children were taken into care and sent to Canada as their father became unemployed and could not look after them. My great grandmother Mabel stayed behind, married and had one daughter my grandmother. I have an original letter written to Mabel by an uncle on her father's side in 1906 explaining the family history to her. In it he mentions John Smith but doesn't know what happened to him. I've hit a real brick wall. My gut feeling is that he remained close to the Phillips family and that they are the key to solving the mystery
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There is a John Joseph Lawson Smith, born Hackney, London 1873, married a Sarah Elizabeth Crabb 1900 in Bebington, Tranmere. His father is listed as John Joseph Smith. I thought it might be a link as JJ was on the 1871 Tranmere census.
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Thank you Kloumann. I will definitely follow it up.