RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: kathlom on Sunday 05 February 12 03:11 GMT (UK)
-
I am looking for Lommel's in Switzerland. They moved there from Germany (Bavaria) sometime in the late 1840's. I am looking for marriages and children for the following:
Parents - George Aloys LOMMEL (death required) and Maria Barbara Theresia GUTTENHOFFER
Children: Etienne m Minna GRASSLER (I don't know where or when or children)
Babette (married ? HAEBEL) no dates no children
Catherine - no information at all
Georg Thomas (1836-1895) married Anna GRASLER c1870 - Switzerland. Had 7 children born between 1870 and 1875) He was involved in the building of the Simplon Railway.
Jean Georg (1844-1894) - I have lots of information on him - this is my husband's gr grandfather)
Wilhelm b1847 France - I think died young
Armand Robert b1849 France - I think died young.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I thing the family were in the area near Geneva. Bil''s grandfather was born in Saint Maurice, Switzerland.
-
I see there are 21 entries for Lommel in Switzerland on the LDS IGI, which at a glance appear to include some of those named by you. There is some location info, so using that info contact the local civil registry and ask for a familienschein. There will possibly be a charge, but the amount of info you get makes it very worthwhile. For guidance about how Swiss records are organised use this very helpful website:
http://kunden.eye.ch/swissgen/
Good luck
Paul
-
Thanks for the suggestions Paul - I'll certainly follow them up.
Kathie
-
Don't know if you're still looking, but I can give you information on George’s son Otto Adrian (my great-grandfather), who went to the U.S. in 1909. The only descendants from the line you are looking at to retain the Lommel name are now in the U.S. The others that I know of still in Switzerland have the name Trechsel.
By the way, the family lived in Lausanne, which indeed isn't terribly far from Geneva. According to my older relatives, George Thomas designed the Lausanne train station as well as the Simplon.
Best,
Arle
-
Hi Arle
Yes I definiitely am interested in any information on the Lommels. I know that Otto was Thomas' son and I have trawled the net for information on the American branch. You are right I think the only Lommel's are going to be the American branch.
We are Lommmel's but we only had daughters so that is the end of that line. However, George had a brother Etienne who married a Minnie Grassler and I have no idea if he had sons or not. I would also like to know about the Treschel family as I am assuming one of the girls must have married into that family.
Regards Kathleen Lommel
-
Hi Kathleen. I think you were in touch with my father (Danny) a few years ago. I'm not sure where things were left off, but I can try to put you in contact with one of the current Trechsels. I'll have to reach out to him (I've not been in touch in a few years). I just signed up here so I'm not sure if PM is possible, but if so, I will send you my email address and we can get in touch directly (rather than post too many personal details here).
-
There is someone researching on geneanet who has this family but with the son b. 1836 as the son of another wife (unknown) of George Aloys:
http://gw2.geneanet.org/louisedmond?lang=fr&m=N&v=LOMMEL
(also lists some names of children but no dates for Etienne)
Searching "Lommel Georg Aloys" on Google Books comes up with one hit which is in German and gives his dates as 1805-1872. Mentions his emigration to Switzerland, probably post the 1848/49 revolution which he participated in. If this is yours, he was an interesting fellow!
Here is Wilhelm's baptism - in Frankfurt:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NDQX-95S
-
Just noted that Jean Georg died in Paris - do you have his death? It is available at http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr (in 17e). Nothing new except stating his birthplace as Wurtzbourg, Bavière (Würzburg, Bavaria).
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FP93-NSS
- could be a daughter of Etienne and Minna Grassler?
Eugenie, born Switzerland 1875, died unmarried in 1966 in Hendersonville, North Carolina, USA.
She appears to have come into the US multiple times. e.g. in 1921, listing her father, "Mr Lommel" as resident in Olten, Switzerland, and her own birthplace as Morges, Switzerland. In 1911 when she travelled to the US (again listing birthplace as Morges) she was accompanied by a sister, Ida and they list their mother in Olten as next of kin.
-
Hi Jerose
Thanks for the help - most of it I had. The person on Geneat is my husbands cousin and has done quite a lot of research on the family. I will have a look at the Google books though - I haven't done that. Thanks for your help.
kathlom
-
Entry in the Address book of Würzburg 1852
Lommel, Christoph Aloys, quiesz. k. b. Regierungs-Sekretär. IV. 186. Obere Kaserngasse
(quieszenz - retired)
Regards Peonie
added
where the "Aloys" might come from:
Die Graduierten der Theologischen Fakultät Würzburg
566
Lommel, Franciscus (P. Aloys) OSB
Theses theol. de poenitentia, extrema unctione, ordine et matrimonio. Wirce-burgi: Nitribitt 1764. - 1 Bl.
Bacc. 13.07.1764
Praes.: Kilber, Heinrich SJ
WHS 00
OSB, Kloster St. Stephan in Würzburg, Mag. AA LL et Philos.
-
Thanks Peonie. Christoph Aloys was Georg Aloys' father.
Kathleen
-
Hi Kathleen,
are you interested in all the little snippets you find about the Lommels in different publications? e.g. Auction of Hofkammerrat Lommel's (1748-1827) estate, Sterbebilder, and notes that Pater Aloys
and Georg Lommel, born 174?. in Bamberg are brothers.
Regards Peonie
-
Hi Peony
Yes I am most definitely interested in any snippets about Lommel's that come up - I keep a record of them - you never know when one will be just what I'm looking for. Pater Aloys Lommel certainly sounds like our lot as Aloys keeps cropping up as a family name. Thanks a lot
Kathleen.
-
Hi Kathleen,
here are some of the items I have found:
http://franconica.uni-wuerzburg.de/ub/totenzettel/register.html?buchstabe=%27L%27
http://books.google.de/books?id=FLBCAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=related:BSBBSB10386675#v=onepage&q=lommel&f=false
Versteigerungen fuer Hofkammerrat Lommel 1827
A snippet from :
Lenk, Leonhard, „Grandaur, Johann Michael BernhardLudwigs I. von Bayern“, in: Neue Deutsche Biographie 6 (1964), S. 741-743 [Onlinefassung]; URL: http://www.deutsche-biographie.de/pnd11682168X.html
V Lorenz (1742–93), Schirmmacher, S d. Andreas, Maurermeister in W., u. d. Ottilia Wolfahrt; M Maria, T d. Martin Hellmuth u. d. Veronica Lehmann; ⚭ 1807 Magdalena (1783–1845), T d. Gg. Lommel (1748–1827), Hofkammerrat u. Landesdirektions-Oberregistrator in W., u. d. Barbara Mohr; 2 S, 1 T, u. a. →Franz (1822–96), Regisseur d. Hoftheaters in M. (s. Kosch, Theater-Lex.).
Regards Peonie
added: here is mentioned that Aloys and Georg are brothers
http://books.google.de/books?id=2FJEAAAAcAAJ&pg=RA1-PA679&lpg=RA1-PA679&dq=Georg+Aloys+Lommel&source=bl&ots=vhjvkOUqMH&sig=lBQeAMLq6RFbUWbRuWlvwkJRINc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_VCHUbSlIYyViQfuyoCgAQ&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Georg%20Aloys%20Lommel&f=false
-
Kathleen, Pater Aloys was the brother of Georg, who was the grandfather of Georg Aloys Lommel, who was the father of Georg Thomas and Jean Georges, so he is one of ours. An 1813 source (see http://bit.ly/10Aq1SV, same one Peonie found, I see) has the following (translated from German):
Lommel, Aloys, born in [Bg?], ordained in the middle of the last century [i.e., 18th] in Benedictine Order at St. Stephan’s in Würzburg, demonstrated himself to be a very good preacher from the pulpit on several occasions, making convincing arguments, now living as a priest at Saal an der Röhne where he eagerly fulfills his obligations
Lommel, Georg, brother of the former, born in [Bg?] in 174[?]. Took part in 1767 in a public examination on philosophy and mathematics to gain his academic degree, was concerned with law and finance, and finally became Hofkammerat (member of the court) in Würzburg, where he is still employed.
So I can tie him in for you. The Hofkammerat Lommel is therefore my great-great-great-great-great grandfather (not sure which generation your husband falls in exactly, but he would be a great-grandfather of some sort).
-
Ugg. Trying to edit and duplicated the post. So ignore this one.
-
That's fantastic - it goes back a further generation and even gives some information about them other than just BMD information. I always knew we had to come across an Aloys eventually. Thanks so much for translating it for me - I used to be able to read Alte Deutsch but I haven't done so for about 45 years so I am very rusty - and translating it takes me forever. That Bg is probably Bamberg because that's where Peonie had Pater Aloys and George born in the 1740's.
Kathleen
-
Wish I'd known about a Bamberg connection. I was just there six weeks ago and had no idea I should be looking for family connections.
-
I'd never heard of Bamberg but obviously you're in a better position to do this. If you ever get there again you should do some digging and take some photos. By the way Bill is a generation before you - you're the same age as our daughters. One was born in 1973 and the other in 1975.
-
Here are some more.
http://connect.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=725090 (a photo of the Rathaus in Bamberg taken by a Lommel, living in Japan)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0tv4/ (Bamberg Hofcalender 1796)
http://books.google.de/books?id=ntxAAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA72-IA21&lpg=PA72-IA21&dq=Lommel+Bamberg&source=bl&ots=DXBHeShVyg&sig=1z6AX
Hofkalender 1774 Fürstlichen Hochstifts Bamberg Hof-, Stands- und Staats-Calender
If you have time read some of the book, very interesting.
http://www.archivdatenbank.bamberg.de/lstan.FAU?sid=F8DEF01D12&dm=1&apos=1&erg=H&listex=1&inv=1&ipos=Lommel
Lehrzeugnis der geschworenen bürgerlichen Chirurgen in der Stadt Bamberg
Datum: 25.07.1755
Did you see in the Biography for Grandaur where it states Gg Lommel 1748-1827 and married to Barbara Mohr.
Looks like Johann Christoph could be the next generation.
Regards Peonie
-
Hi Peonie
I can't believe how much you have found. Where did you get all this. I've googled the names dozens of times and never found any of these references. I couldn't find Biography of Grandaur but I knew that George Aloys married Barbara Mohr although I didn't know his birthdate. I really appreciate all the effort you are making for me.
Kathleen
-
Hi Kathleen,
you have to go to google.de and change the words around until you find something. Also http://forum.ahnenforschung.net/ and pick the states. There a tips from other posters like, Address books, etc. Also the libraries of the towns and local universities are good places to look. As the Lommels are people of "caliber" there should be more found in the libraries, but not necessarily on the net.
Found some more.
https://opac.uni-bayreuth.de/InfoGuideClient/singleHit.do?methodToCall=showHit&curPos=1&identifier=-1_FT_1002768300 (has timed out, just click neu starten and then type Lommel on the first line)
http://www.bayerische-landesbibliothek-online.de/ortsblaetter
(click on the blue word Ortsblätter after 2400, suche nach Orten and type in the places you like to see)
http://www.autohaus-lommel.de/index.php/merkmale
(Grettstadt is ca. 34 km from Würzburg, worth a try if they are yours as well)
Regards Peonie
-
Hi Kathleen,
Regarding the USA Lommel "branch"... We are trying to research family prior to Charles Phillip Lomel (born Armand Philipp Lommel or Armand Robert Lommel) near Colmar, France in 1849. He appears to be related to this group but his middle name is different and perhaps Armand Robert died in childhood. He came to Savannah, Georgia, USA in the 1860's and changed his name to Charles Phillip Lomel. His son, Arnold, (my grandfather), had limited recall of the details of his family but there were definitely one or more George's in the family.
Bill
-
Hi Just received your message re Armand Lommel. I have Armand Robert Lommel in my husband's tree - born 17 May 1849 in Beblenheim, Haut Rhine, France. Parents Georges Aloys Lommel and Barbara Guttenhoffer. The family were originally German and fled to France because Georges Aloys was mixed up with Karl Marx and had a death sentence passed on him - they wound up in Switzerland. I have never been able to find any reference to Armand other than his birth and always assumed that he died in infancy. There were seven other children in the family. I do have information on earlier generations - the family came from Wurzburg and before that Bamberg in Bavaria.
Not sure if this is helpful but if you want any further information on the family feel free to contact me.
Kathleen Lommel
-
Thanks for the clarification. It looks like Armand Robert is the right guy... same birthday and location. He changed his name in the US. He had a brother named George and his father was Georges. Looks like a match to me.
Now that I'm on the right track I would love to have more on the earlier family history! (But I'm not sure how to email on this site.)
Bill
-
Hi
There is more information about the Lommels in Switzerland in the newspapers.
Intelligenzblatt für die Stadt Bern 1834-1922 (German)
http://intelligenzblatt.unibe.ch/Default/Skins/BernA/Client.asp?Skin=BernA&AppName=2&AW=1505163712407
Newspapers of different Cantons of West Switzerland (French)
http://www.bcu-lausanne.ch/livres-articles-video-audio/archives_presse/
George Lommel, ingenieur (Simplon), died at Spiez (Canton Bern)
Gazette de Lausanne, Friday 6 December 1895
Periodicals of Historical Societies and other Periodicals of Switzerland
https://www.e-periodica.ch/
Regards
Svenja
-
Thank you!
-
Thanks for the clarification. It looks like Armand Robert is the right guy... same birthday and location. He changed his name in the US. He had a brother named George and his father was Georges. Looks like a match to me.
Now that I'm on the right track I would love to have more on the earlier family history! (But I'm not sure how to email on this site.)
Bill
Hi Bill,
I'm looking for more evidence that Armand Robert ist the same person as Charles Philip.
There's a book (https://www.amazon.com/-/de/dp/B01N9HO4I0/ref=sr_1_1?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&crid=3DCKR252581DJ&keywords=sur+les+traces+de+georges+lommel&qid=1649852959&sprefix=sur+les+traces+de+georges+lommel%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-1) by a decendant of Georg Aloys Lommel in which he asserts that Armand Robert died early in childhood. But there is no proof.
What evidence do you have that he changed his name in such a radical manner?
Matthias