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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Buckinghamshire => Topic started by: Lovi on Sunday 05 February 12 05:53 GMT (UK)
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I have a number of conflictions with family trees of other researchers of the parents of my great grandfather (a man of many names), who was either known as Jesse/Jasper ANDREWS/ANDERSON of any combination. I am trying to establish his parents.
He is known to me as Jesse ANDREWS and born cc1833/34 at Kingsey, Buckinghamshire; he married Elizabeth Brown (B: 1832, Bledlow) in 1856. Their children were:
Sarah Anderson 1857
William Anderson 1859
James Anderson 1861
Annie Andrews 1864 (my grandmother, married George Parker in 1888, Hull)
Elizabeth Matilda Andrews 1868
Anna Susan Andrews 1870 (D: 1871)
(Note the surname changes. Researched from FREE BMD.)
I established my great grandfather on the:
1841 Census as Jasper Anderson (Parents William (42) and Mary (36))
1851 Census as Jasper Andrews
1856 Free BMD marriage as Jesse Anderson to Mary Brown (1832)
1861 Census as Jesse Anderson
1871 Census as Jasper Anderson w/- children of Anderson and Andrews
1881 Census as Jesse Andrews
It appears that Jesse Andrews died (Oct/Nov/Dec) 1891 (Free BMD) at the age of 58 at Glandford Briggs, Lincolnshire.
I have no record of the 1891 Census. Can I ask for a lookup of the 1891 Census for Jesse and the remaining Anderson/Andrews family?
I assume by the 1841 Census that Jesse/Jasper Andrews/Anderson (7 years) parents are William & Mary (Blewer) Anderson. William (B: cc1798/99 at West Wycombe or Upper Winchendon) and Mary (cc1805 at Long Crendon).
Other contacts of family branches confirm my assumptions, because of a cross reference with Anne Anderson 1831, who married William Seymour; and I believe that Anne is my great grandfather’s sister.
I believe that William died in 1865, as I found Mary on the 1871 Census (widow) with daughter Hester (Esther).
Are their any parish records that can be looked up for the birth of my great grandfather Jesse/Jasper Andrews/Anderson at Kingsey, Buckinghamshire, and listing his parents?
Sorry for a long story, but I have hit a brick wall.
Thanks and regards
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1891 census he is Jesse Andrews:
Reference RG12, Piece 2629, Folio 101, Page 11
Row Side, Ulceby, Lincolnshire
Andrews, Jesse Head M 57 Platelayer b Kingsey, Bucks
Andrews, Eliza Wife F 53 b Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire
The 1841 census didn't show any relationship, so whilst it may be implied that Jasper's parents were William & Mary, that isn't conclusive!
Finally, if by "family trees of other researchers" you mean tress on Ancestry, please don't trust anyone else's tree, unless they show documentary proof!
People blindly copy information from tree to tree without checking, and a lot of it is complete rubbish!! ;D
If you look at the original page from the 1871 census, living next door to Jasper & family is:
Anderson, Mary Head Widow F 66 Lacemaker b Long Crendon
Anderson, Hester Daughter F 28 Lacemaker b Kingsley
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Hi KG,
Thanks for that, interesting to note my great grandfather remarried to Eliza WIDBEN in 1888, Lincolnshire.
The 1841 Census is accurate enough, because his other siblings Ann 9 years, and Joseph 3 years, were listed on HO107/38/20/8 Pg6.
Yep, that is so, mainly from Genes Reunited and searching the Google Search engine. Well, I realise that much of it is rubbish, because of that is reason that I have reach what I have, and I believe much of the information I posted here on RootChat is reasonably accurate.
As I don’t have access to most original pages of British Census, but I have been able to pick up some from other sources in early days when they were FREE, but now those sources are charging.
I didn’t realise that Jasper/Jesse Anderson/Andrews was living next door to his mum in 1871, and I thank you for that, and have noted it on the records.
I did notice while perusing the jumble of paperwork that I have on the Andrews family that on the 1861 British Census that there is a James Wall, grandson 2 years, born Haddenham. I just can’t see which of the female siblings, a male Wall may have married, as I checked the Free BMD (Marriages) and no hits. Possibly he could be an illegitimate son of Esther; any views on that?
But, I am still trying to confirm if there is a Parish Register entry for Jesse/Jasper Andrew/Anderson cc1834, and confirmation of his parents. Are you able to help there?
Thanks again and regards from Australia
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I did notice while perusing the jumble of paperwork that I have on the Andrews family that on the 1861 British Census that there is a James Wall, grandson 2 years, born Haddenham. I just can’t see which of the female siblings, a male Wall may have married, as I checked the Free BMD (Marriages) and no hits. Possibly he could be an illegitimate son of Esther; any views on that?
You did, of course, mean the England & Wales Census? ;D
I'm not finding this James Wall in 1861 - who was he with?
In 1881, there is a James Wall, age 22, born Haddenham, parents George & Eliza Wall.
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Hi Lovi.
All I can confirm is a marriage in 1819 Kingsey.
William(x)Andrews (o.t.p) to Ann(x)Woodbridge(o.t.p) - 7th October. 1819. Witnesses are Wm. Woodbridge & Sarah Shepherd.
No baptisms in your time frame. >:( Baptisms only go to 1812, and I think they transferred to Oxfordshire.
Steve. :)
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Thanks for that KG, but in my jumble I have a copy of 1861 British Census:
1861
Kingsey
William Anderson Head M 63 Ag Lab Upper Winchendon
Mary do Wife 52 Lacemaker Long Crendon
Esther do Dau U 18 do Kingsey
James Wall Grandson 2 Haddenham *~
Rg9/886/60Pg25
And it appears that the 1881 confirms the information of the 1861 Census. I wasn’t able to pick up a marriage of George & Eliza Wall from the Free BMD. My great grandfather’s younger sister, Elizabeth born 1844 could have married George Wall as I found a corrupted GRO Free BMD marriage of a George Wall at Wycombe 1857. This could be the man?
I checked the 1881 Census on the LDS site, and I noticed that the Eliza was born 1839, London St Lukes, London, Middlesex, England. My Elizabeth (Eliza) Anderson was born 1844 at Shenley, Buckinghamshire, England. I couldn’t find her on the 1881 Census, so could indicate that she may had died. Can you pick Elizabeth Anderson cc1844 on the 1871 Census anywhere?
It could appear that James Wall could have been the illegitimate child of Esther Anderson as per 1861 Census, or he may have married Elizabeth Anderson (that could be the corrupted Free BMD GRO for March 1857) and Elizabeth may have passed away and George Wall then remarried at a later date.
I found two Deaths Dec 1865 and Dec 1872 of a Elizabeth Anderson at Wycombe, and the 1872 could possibly be as the birth date is 1842 and is near to her birth of 1844.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks and best regards
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Hi Lovi.
All I can confirm is a marriage in 1819 Kingsey.
William(x)Andrews (o.t.p) to Ann(x)Woodbridge(o.t.p) - 7th October. 1819. Witnesses are Wm. Woodbridge & Sarah Shepherd.
No baptisms in your time frame. >:( Baptisms only go to 1812, and I think they transferred to Oxfordshire.
Steve. :)
Thanks for that Steve.
I have basically established that my great grandfather’s parents are William Anderson (born cc1795/99 West Wycombe) and married Mary Blewer (born 1805, Long Crendon) of Buckinghamshire.
Great grandfather, Jesse/Jasper Andrews/Anderson was born cc1832/1834 at Kingsey, but could be recorded in the Oxfordshire register. Is Kingsey in the Thames area, ad I notice that some of his children were recorded under Thames.
Can you help further?
Best Regards
George
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Thanks for that KG, but in my jumble I have a copy of 1861 British Census:
My great grandfather’s younger sister, Elizabeth born 1844 could have married George Wall as I found a corrupted GRO Free BMD marriage of a George Wall at Wycombe 1857. This could be the man?
FindMyPast (which I use for censuses) has transcribed young Robert as 8 years old! That's why I couldn't find him! ;D
That marriage from 1857 is for a George Whale! Volume 3a, page 415.
There is, however, this marriage:
June qtr 1853
Thame district (Kingsey comes under the Thame district!) vol 3a, page 619
Wall, George
Andrews, Ann
This might be a complete red herring, but . . . . . !!! ;D
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Thanks KG,
But, I’m not sure what you meant by your following comment in regards to “Robert”:
“FindMyPast (which I use for censuses) has transcribed young Robert as 8 years old! That's why I couldn't find him!”
What is the cost for using FindMyPast? I've found many geanology sites expensive for the little searching that I need to do.
Were you able to pick up Elizabeth Anderson cc1844 on the 1871 Census?
This is what I found on Free BMD:
Marriages Jun 1853 (>99%)
Andrews Ann Thame 3a 619
Wall George Thame 3a 619
I did find this one, and looked at the actual GRO, and spent more time trying to decipher the page number than the actual name, which appeared to be WALL, which in this case was WHALE.
Marriages Mar 1857 (>99%)
Wall George __o__t Wycombe 3a 41_
Thanks again mate.
Regards
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But, I’m not sure what you meant by your following comment in regards to “Robert”:
“FindMyPast (which I use for censuses) has transcribed young Robert as 8 years old! That's why I couldn't find him!”
Because I was using FindMyPast a lot, I took out an annual subscription - it's cheaper that way per search!
I meant George Wall, not Robert - sorry!
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Thanks KG, for that I was confused with "Robert".
Were you able to pick up anything on Elizabeth Anderson cc1844 on the 1871 Census?
I'm still trying to establish Jesse/Jasper Andrews/Anderson's birth 1834 Kingsey. it could be registered in the Oxford side of the country?
Thanks a million.
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First off: who is this Elizabeth, born 1844?
I can't see her connected to Jesse/Jasper? ???
Jesse/Jasper's birth is before the start of civil registration, so you need to search out Parish Registers.
I don't have access to them!
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Thanks KG,
I did post a few posting back:
And it appears that the 1881 confirms the information of the 1861 Census. I wasn’t able to pick up a marriage of George & Eliza Wall from the Free BMD. My great grandfather’s younger sister, Elizabeth born 1844 could have married George Wall as I found a corrupted GRO Free BMD marriage of a George Wall at Wycombe 1857. This could be the man?
I checked the 1881 Census on the LDS site, and I noticed that the Eliza was born 1839, London St Lukes, London, Middlesex, England. My Elizabeth (Eliza) Anderson was born 1844 at Shenley, Buckinghamshire, England. I couldn’t find her on the 1881 Census, so could indicate that she may had died. Can you pick Elizabeth Anderson cc1844 on the 1871 Census anywhere?
And basically that is what I was trying to establish, whether this Elizabeth is the Elizabeth, and I thought that the 1871 Census might confirm something.
Sorry, I was under the assumption that you may have had aaccess to the Parish registers.
Thanks again for your help.
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Looking at the 1851 census, I can see an Elizabeth Anderson, born 1844, Hughenden, but her parents are William and Ann, and there is no Jessie or Jasper.
On other census returns I can't see Jasper/Jesse with a sister Elizabeth?
So I can't see how you connect Elizabeth to Jasper/Jesse ???
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Looking at the 1851 census, I can see an Elizabeth Anderson, born 1844, Hughenden, but her parents are William and Ann, and there is no Jessie or Jasper.
On other census returns I can't see Jasper/Jesse with a sister Elizabeth?
So I can't see how you connect Elizabeth to Jasper/Jesse ???
Thanks KG,
This is were it has become confusing for me as the following I downloaded from LDS IGI, which are extracts from Parish Registers.
Family of William and Ann Anderson of Buckinghamshire
1. JOSEPH ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 01 JUN 1834 Hughenden, Buckingham, England
2. ELIZABETH ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 MAR 1842 Hughenden, Buckingham, England
3. SARAH ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 06 DEC 1840 Hughenden, Buckingham, England
4. ANN ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 01 MAR 1846 Hughenden, Buckingham, England
5. Mary Anderson - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 28 MAR 1823 Kingsey, Buckingham, England
Family of William and Mary Anderson of Buckinghamshire
1. JOSEPH ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 01 JAN 1837 Upton Cum Chalvey, Buckingham, England
2. ELLEN MARY ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 01 SEP 1839 Upton Cum Chalvey, Buckingham, England
3. FREDERICK ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 MAY 1827 West Wycombe, Buckingham, England
4. EDWARD ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 11 JUN 1824
5. EDWARD ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 13 MAY 1827 West Wycombe, Buckingham, England
6. ELIZABETH ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 25 AUG 1844 Shenley, Buckingham, England
7. ANNE ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 16 JAN 1831 Upton Cum Chalvey, Buckingham, England
8. WILLM. ANDERSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 25 FEB 1827 Upton Cum Chalvey, Buckingham, England
The Elizabeth of Hughenden that you mention on the 1851 Census was born in 1846.
I have assumed that the LDS IGI list of William and Mary Anderson are the same William and Mary (Blewer) Anderson of Long Crendon. I guess I was trying to establish if Jesse, sometimes called Jasper Andrews, sometimes called Anderson were of this family listed on the LDS IGI list by my assumption.
Oh well, I may as will give up, because I just can’t seem to find any connection of my multi name great grandfather.
When I found James Wall, grandson, on the 1861 census with William and Mary (Blewer) Anderson, who are the parents of my multi name great grandfather, I was trying to definitely establish that was so. The mention of the grandson and from your previous information confirmed that George Wall married Anne Anderson, who I believe is the Anne Anderson (B: 1831), sister of my multi name great grandfather.
Therefore, I believe that the family listed above of William and Mary Anderson is the same family William and Mary (Blewer) Anderson.
Now I am confused, are you????
Best Regards
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I prefer census data to the IGI! Too much submitted data on there for my liking! ;D
From 1851 census:
HO107, 1720, 196, 6
Aylesbury Lodge, Hughenden, Buckinghamshire
Anderson, William Head M 42 Under Gardener to B. Disraeli b West Wycombe
Anderson, Ann Wife F 42 Lace Maker B Hughenden
Anderson, Charlotte Daughter F 21 Lace Maker b Hughenden
Anderson, James M 18 Ag Lab b Hughenden
Anderson, Joseph M 18 Ag Lab b Hughenden
Anderson, Sarah Daughter F 9 Lace Maker b Hughenden
Anderson, Elizabeth Daughter F 7 Lace Maker b Hughenden
Anderson, Ann Daughter F 5 b Hughenden
The other family have moved to Yorkshire:
HO107, 2329, 218, 11
Ledsham Lodge, Ledsham, Pontefract
Anderson, William Head M 37 Woodsman b Ledstone
Anderson, Mary Wife F 30 b Shenley, Buckinghamshire
Anderson, Elizabeth Daughter F 7 Scholar b Wheddon, Bucks
Anderson, Ann Daughter F 5 Scholar b Shenley
Anderson, George John Son M 3 b Ledsham
Anderson, Mary Daughter F 2 b Ledsham
Anderson, John Son M 7 months b Ledsham
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I find the LDS IGI okay, only when they stated that the information is extracted from Parish Registers. As for all the other stuff that is posted by many whose information is from family tales that are distorted and are like dreamtime stories.
Anyway, I have progressed in one direction but not in the direction that I was hoping to go, such as trying to establish the birth or baptism register of Jesse Anderson or Jasper Anderson. I believe he was born as Jasper, and then all the deception began. It was like as though he was trying to hide from someone, maybe a couple of other wives. Who knows?
Best Regards
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Hi KG,
Am back, as I have been waiting on a reply from the Buckinghamshire County Council, and they confirmed this:
1833 Baptism:
Jasper Anderson was baptised at Kingsey parish church, Buckinghamshire on July 28th 1833. He was the son of William and Mary Anderson, the father being a Labourer.
1856 Marriage Parish Register:
Jesse Anderson, aged 24 years, bachelor and farm labourer of Crowell Hill, son of William Anderson, farm labourer
Married
Elizabeth Brown aged 25 years, spinster, lacemaker of Bledlow, daughter of David Brown farm labourer, at Bledlow parish church on 29th November 1856, by banns.
The witnesses were James Anderson, Ann Wall and William H Richardson
On the BMD:
Marriages Jun 1853:
Andrews Ann Thame 3a 619
Wall George Thame 3a 619
You said on an earlier posting that you looked at the actual GRO, and spent more time trying to decipher the page number than the actual name, which appeared to be WALL, which in this case was WHALE.
Marriages Mar 1857:
Wall George __o__t Wycombe 3a 41_
I can’t find how I did it, but when I deciphered the page number (41_), I think it came out Page 447, and I discovered a George Wall married to Eliza Anderson.
And when I noticed the witnesses to Jesse/Jasper’s marriage to Elizabeth Brown, such as Ann WALL.
I have Anne Anderson married to William Seymour, so it looks very much likely that George Wall married Elizabeth Anderson, but I am Elizabeth Anderson as being born 1844, which could possibly be a baptism date a number of years after birth???
Any thoughts?
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Baptisms later in life were far from uncommon - in fact many families baptised their children in batches!
To save money!!
When using FreeBMD, there is usually an option to look at the original (click on the spectacles icon).
I looked at that, and the page number could be either 415 or 413?
Page 413 only has one match (using a FreeBMD search), Ann Brown.
Page 415 has 4 hits:
Gunnell, Mary Ann
Ives, John
Oliver, Eliza
Whale, George
This is what appears for George Wall, 1857: