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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Helenw52 on Sunday 05 February 12 22:23 GMT (UK)
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They were in Hong Kong, but Mrs Jones and daughter returned to Australia in the 40s. Jones was in the Stanley Platoon of the HKVDC
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Hello Helen,
It would help if you posted any other details about the parents that you may have, as the little you have given is not much to go on. However, don't post details about the daughter as she may still well be living.
Dee :)
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That's the problem - there is a diary written by Mr R E Jones, but nothing is known about him - or what his initial stand for. The holders of the diary are hoping to find out what happened to his wife and daughter, who are mentioned in the diary. That's all the info there is. He was a POW in Hong Kong and his family returned to Australia.
They are hoping Rae or descendants are alive, so the information can be given to them.
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So we have a challenge! :D
Rootschatters love a challenge, so hopefully some of us can have a go at trying to find something on this man.
Dee :)
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You are probably aware of this Helen, but for anyone else reading this thread, here's a link about the diary......
http://gwulo.com/node/9660
Also.....
http://gwulo.com/70-years-ago
Dee :)
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Hi
Try Robert Edward Jones wife lily
Muss
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You are probably aware of this Helen, but for anyone else reading this thread, here's a link about the diary......
http://gwulo.com/node/9660
Also.....
http://gwulo.com/70-years-ago
Dee :)
That's the one. It'd be great if the family knew of the diary. Appears as though they don't.
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Hi
Try Robert Edward Jones wife lily
Muss
Not sure if it is the right man, as according to the diary the wife was Marj (Marjorie?)
Actually - re- reading the diary - the initals R E may not his initials at all - so it's actually any Mr Jones - married to Marg and with a daughter Rae.
R.E. - Royal Engineer
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Hi
A Jones in Stanley
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18467100?searchTerm=jones prisoner of war stanley camp&searchLimits=
Muss
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All we can do is collect snippets in the hope that one will be googled and bring a response from a family member.
From R E Jones' diary it seems darling Marj's birthday was the 18th December.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k44/
Dee :)
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Hi
Also in diary address
Mrs R E Jones ( British)
No 4 the Buckingham
Beach rd Bondi
Sydney
Australia
Muss
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Also mention of a Miss G F Flower of Southampton, possibly a nursing sister.
As well , there's mention of R E Jones receiving a letter from Hilda, and immediately after that it mentioned his mother had received a letter from him. So was Hilda possibly a sister?
Dee :)
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It might seem I'm going off track, but you just never know with hunts of this kind what can turn something up.
This could be Gwen.....
Gwendoline Frances Flower born Sep Qtr 1909 Southampton District 2c/45
Dee :)
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Her family when Gwen was two years old......
John Montague FLOWER 36 Clothier Assistant born Beveridge in Dorset
His wife Annie Hilda FLOWER aged 32 born Brighton in Sussex.
James Montague FLOWER, their son aged 2 born Southampton
Gwendoline Frances FLOWER their daughter aged 2 born Southampton
Wishful thinking but it would be good if a descendant knew something about R E Jones!
Dee :)
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Towards the end of the diary : Sun 2nd (Oct 1945?) Fine, hot. Bowls etc to G & V. Airmail letter to Marj. "
Tuesday 4th - Posted letter A/m to Marj.
Mon 17th - Posted A/m to Marj
" Sat 27th Fine. Arrived Liverpool 2pm and made fast 4pm. Welcomed by Mayor & Navy & Army Officials. Landing routine completed by 7pm. Am already now to go. Letter from M & Dad."
He returned to Liverpool 27 October 1945. So did his family go back to UK? Or did they remain in Australia?
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What do you think? ???
On 4th March 1947 Dorothy Marjorie JONES, housewife, aged 35, together with daughter aged 6, sailed on the 4th March 1947 from Southampton for Hong Kong, China on board the Strathmore.
Their last address was given as 28 Rutland Road, Skegness. They intended to remain in Hong Kong.
However, there's more to come.
Dee :D
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Wait for it....I think I may have something more helpful....... :D :D
Dee :D :D :D
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Wait for it....I think I may have something more helpful....... :D :D
Dee :D :D :D
I can't wait - you're doing well
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Look who departed Southampton on 15th December 1950 on board the Corfu bound for Hong Kong……..
Raymonr Eric JONES aged 45 and married, a H K Govt Servant
Dorothy Marjorie JONES aged 39 and married (wife)
Daughter JONES aged 9
Their last address in the UK was 23 Rutland Rd, Skegness.
They were intending to stay in Hong Kong.
I think the name should be Raymond, but the image is not clear.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
There's one more to type up.
Dee :)
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The Corfu left Southampton on the 20 August 1954 bound for Hong Kong.
On board were
Raymond Eric JONES aged 48 Govt Servant
Dorothy Marjorie JONES aged 42 Housewife
Daughter JONES aged 13
Daughter JONES aged 2
Again their last address in the UK was 23 Rutland Rd, Skegness.
Perhaps daughter aged two given a second name after a person named in the diary?
Dee :D :D
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Dee, you are awesome - Where did you get that information? Is there more to come? I guess we now need to get the HK end sorted - and Alison McEwan may have the knowledge to crack that end of it. http://gwulo.com/node/9660
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PM on the way, and another to come, Helen.
Dee :)
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On all the good work that Dee did a marriage
Raymond E Jones
Dorothy M Cumming
1939 Spilsby,Lincolnshire
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That's a great addition, Sue. :D
I've now got to go modify some posts. ;)
Dee :)
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hi
Well done I missed most posts as they happened, I had to feed the family
Muss
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Thanks Muss - It's good to have a great outcome. Now to see if the HK end can be cracked.
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It's been rather exciting, Muss. :D
Helen, I'm afraid I have absolutely no skills in searching the Hong Kong end. However, we may be able to find a little more about Raymond's family in England....or Marjorie's......and that in itself could lead to learning more about Hong Kong.
I've joined the site as suggested by PM, and have posted a link to this thread, and mentioned I have a little more information about the daughters.
Dee :D
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I guess Mr Jones would have seen out his Public Servant years in HK, and then retired back to the UK - at age 60 - or whatever the retirement age was for a Public Servant. (around 1966?)
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Raymond Eric Jones was the son of Martha Jones, a widow by the time he was 5 years old. He had a 2 year old sister Ethel Jones. They were living at 4 St Marks Court Lincoln at that stage.
He was born in Lincoln, Lincolnshire in the Dec qtr of 1905. 7a/499
I think sister Ethel was born there in the Sep qtr of 1908. 7a/523
Dee :)
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Is this useful - if your lady was born Dec 18 her birth may not have been registered until the New Year.
Births Mar 1912
CUMMING Dorothy M Mawer Spilsby 7a/1032
Cando
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Hi
Also in diary address
Mrs R E Jones ( British)
No 4 the Buckingham
Beach rd Bondi
Sydney
Australia
Muss
Does this address need any following up perhaps? I have some offline NSW resources ....
Cheers, JM
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Hi MJ
The address may have been a hotel or apartments or war accomodation.
might be interesting to find out.
Muss
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I know that there was a great deal of empty residential flats out there in 1943, (there had been some mini subs skirting around Sydney Harbour in 1942).... So rentals would have been easy to find and cheap too. I think the property would have been known as "Buckingham" and they were in No. 4 of the flats there. And "Buckingham" would be somewheres on Beach Road. I will see if I can figure out who else was at "Buckingham" in 1943.
Cheers, JM
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;D
The 1943 Electoral Roll, Electorate of Wentworth, subdistrict of Bondi (not Bondi North, and not Bondi Beach)....
Going through the alpha lists ..... Already I have spotted a chap at 17 Buckingham, Beach Road, Bondi. So, I am becoming confident that it was a rental address.
Cheers, JM
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House in need of some maintenance at that address JM. Looks as though it may be quite old but has been 'renovated' and original architectural features gone.
The address of Rutland Road, Skigness about the time of Dorothy M's birth is occupied by Acton Robert CUMMING, his wife Florence and son Robert Acton along with Annie MAINER and I think should be MAWER, who works in her sister's boarding house.
Marriages Dec 1907 with poor transcribing....
CUMING Acton Robert S Sculcoates 9d/423
CUNNING Acton Robert S Sculcoates 9d/423
MAWER Florence Sculcoates 9d/423
Births Dec 1910
CUMMING Robert A Spilsby 7a/509
Cheers
Cando
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On 4th March 1947 Dorothy Marjorie JONES, housewife, aged 35, together with daughter aged 6, sailed on the 4th March 1947 from Southampton for Hong Kong, China on board the Strathmore.
Their last address was given as 28 Rutland Road, Skegness. They intended to remain in Hong Kong.
Oops sorry I didn't quote where I had found the address previously.
Cando
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A possible brother for Dorothy:
Births Sep 1913
Cumming Stephen
Mawer
Spilsby
7a 1061
and possible death:
Deaths Sep 1913
Cumming Stephen 0 Spilsby 7a 578
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
Leanne
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Goodness me, you all have great skills in picking up this information. If only Chinese Research were this easy lol:)
And looks like Mother and daughter were only in Australia for a short time of their lives - I wonder why Australia and not UK?
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hi
Australia is closest
Muss
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And perhaps easier to get to during wartime.
Cheers, JM
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From what I've been reading, initially it seems they were evacuated to the Phillipines in accordance with a plan drawn up by the British Government in 1939. They must have come on to Australia from there.
Now that I have the name of Raymond Eric JONES, I've been googling again, and found this site!
http://blog.yahoo.com/_NGVTCHLZQO6S3Z4HNMRRSWVSUU/articles/101116
It's hard to use, as much of it is in Chinese. But way down the page I found this heading....
St. Stephen’s College Heritage Trail Open Day and World War II Artifacts exhibit at the Newly Restored Bungalow on May 8, 2011.
In the article that follows, it seems one of the items on display was R E Jones' Diary, and I quote.....
"The second exhibit is The Jones Diary, which is a record of what happened in the internment years in the bungalows by one of the internees, Mr. Raymond Eric Jones, who was a prison officer then. "
So it seems that the mystery of the owner's name had been cleared up elsewhere before.
Never mind, it's been a great hunt, and I've thoroughly enjoyed it, and there's still the hope of finding one of the daughters or possible grandchildren.
Dee :)
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Dee the first link you gave had the info minus his given names....
http://gwulo.com/node/9660
It is a hardbacked notebook written in pencil from 28th Dec 1940 thro' to 27th Oct 1945. The diarist is an RE Jones who Tony [Banham] has identified as a Prison Officer, it is already clear he was the prison hangman too! His wife Marj had already been sent to Australia, and they had a baby daughter born 22nd Jan 1940 called Rae.
Cando
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Yes, Cando....it was from links on there that I gained enough info to send me delving. I read quite a bit of the diary for part of 1944 and 1945. It tells you in part of the diary that he was a prison officer.
But they didn't know that R E stood for Raymond Eric, and they want to trace any descendants.
It's a rather good website in that it has links if you are trying to trace family in Hong Kong.
Dee :)
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OK....I want to post a query for all you folks helping with the thread......it's to do with me wondering how many women born within perhaps ten years either side of 1940 would have the same name as the daughter Rae? I can't post her given names in total for obvious reasons. (There's always a PM)
Do you think it is worth trying to follow up any that are found? I've found one on a website that married someone from a Queensland family and is definitely deceased.....death notice in a Queensland newspaper in 2008. ??? :-\
Dee :)
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Hi
My husband's grandmother was always called Rae when her name was Elizabeth Rachel
Rae was short for Rachel
Muss
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Muss, this child appears to have had just Rae as her second given name, and been called by that. :)
Dee
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OK....I want to post a query for all you folks helping with the thread......it's to do with me wondering how many women born within perhaps ten years either side of 1940 would have the same name as the daughter Rae?
Dee :)
I'm wondering whether we would be better off trying to find out when the family last left HK - maybe in the mid 60s when father retired. Do you think the daughter would have completed her education in HK - or more likely college/University in UK .
May be a better avenue to look for marriages in UK?
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I checked UK marriages.....unless she is just recorded with her first name, I don't think she's listed. :(
Added....I should correct that.....unless she's recorded with her first name and just the letter R.....and there are pages of those. :o ;D
Dee
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My late Auntie Rae was actually Raelene (married as Raelyn but all other records spell it as Raelene)
Also I have a Rachel as bc name but she was aka as Rita and as Rae. As an aside she moved from Bondi during WWII due to shelling falling on their roof. But not from Beach Rd
Cheers JM
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Hi there
I am the Alison, who transcribed this diary and am very impressed with all your research. I have only just come across your entries through the HK gwulo site. I had given up looking for Ray Jones' daughter, and lent the diary to St Stephen's College in HK who have a small museum covering Stanley Prison Camp. I tried a local paper in Skegness to try to trace Rae but got no answer, maybe I'll try again with your extra information - I would love to be able to return the diary to a family owner.
I have now joined RootsChat so I can keep up with anything else you discover - I didn't even know the family had returned to HK.
Many thanks for all your hard work.
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Hello Alison, and welcome to RootsChat! It's a great place, with lots of helpful people around the world. :)
It's lovely to hear from you, and hopefully the information we've found will be of some use to you.
We enjoyed the challenge, and would love to hear if you have any success in the future in tracing any family of Ray Jones.
Good luck!
Dee :)
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Good News - Finally an answer
Daughter reads father's diary of wartime Hong Kong for the first time - after a 70-year wait
Exciting news this week – we’ve heard from Rae, daughter of R E Jones. She has just read her father’s wartime diary [1] for the first time, having always believed it was destroyed in 1945.
Background
The diary starts at the end of 1940, when Jones was working as a prison officer in Stanley Prison. He often mentions his wife, Marjorie, who’d been evacuated to Australia, and his young daughter Rae. Rae had been born in Australia, so Jones hadn’t met her yet. A year later, events take a dramatic turn with the Japanese invasion of Hong Kong, and Jones taking part in the fighting at Stanley. He survives, and begins the long internment at Stanley Camp.
Jones isn’t physically hurt in any way during his internment – no beatings or torture as far as we can tell. But he has other hardships to bear. In the second half of 1942, his diaries record a close relationship developing with a lady he records by the initial G [2]. However she has doubts about whether her husband was killed in the fighting or not. Around Christmas time she breaks off the relationship, but Jones mentions her daily in his diaries, up until she leaves the camp, repatriated in 1943.
Jones diary continues with records of routine daily life for the next couple of years, until in 1945 a new relationship develops. She is also initial G for most entries, though he once mentions her as Gwen [3]. After liberation, he begins the journey home to Britain, but with frequent mentions of Gwen, and also of his wife Marjorie who by then is back in Britain waiting to meet him. The diary ends with his arrival in Liverpool on 27th October, 1945.
You can’t finish the diary without wondering “What happened next?”
http://gwulo.com/node/16148
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Hi Dee and all you others who helped trying to track down Rae Jones. You've now heard the happy ending - a few days ago she googled her family and up came that excellent HK 'Gwulo' site where the transcript had ended up. To cut a very long story short, we're now in touch and the diary is shortly winging its way home to her in England. What a thrilling adventure it has been on!
Thanks again to all of you on Rootschat - I know where to come if I get stuck with another historical query - you seem indefatigable!
Very best
Alison
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I hope there will be a sequel - Thanks to your hard work - and for bringing it to our attention. History like this deserves to be told.
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Hi Alison,
What wonderful news.....and we RootsChatters are glad to have been of some help to achieving such a great result.
Thanks to you and to Helen for letting us know about the daughter of R E Jones getting in touch.
With every good wish to all concerned.....
Dee :)
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R E Jones' diary goes home
http://gwulo.com/node/16223