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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: sueclog on Saturday 11 February 12 11:29 GMT (UK)
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In my husband's great-grandfather's (John Sheridan born 1866) army paybook, he states in his enlistment document dated 1883 that his mother Anne (nee Winters), father John, brothers Mathew and Francis and sister Catherine were alive and livng in St Marys, Drogheda (given in the document as County Meath).
We know exactly what happened to John as we can follow his army career in the Royal Irish Rifles, but we can find no mention of his family in any records after this date. We can't even find his siblings on the BMD (except Bridget who died in childhood).
Does anyone out there have any idea what happened to them, or how we can go further to find out?
Sue
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Bridget and John's births are both listed in extracted Irish births www.familysearch.org:
Bridget born 28 Feb.1865 Drogheda St. Mary's district page 599 in civil register
John born 15 Dec.1866 same district page 599 in civil register
Registration of births started in 1864 so if the other siblings were older there will be no birth certificates for them.
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The details for John Sheridan were also posted on your earlier thread looking for the same information:
Can anyone help with info about John Sheridan, born about 1865 at St Mary's Drogheda? All the info we have about him is from the will in his army paybook. He was a colour sergeant in the Royal Irish Rifles. It also gives as siblings: Matthew, Francis (male or female unknown) and Catherine. His parents were John and Ann.
Does anyone know if there are any records for this time for St Mary's?
Can anyone tell us about St Mary's? Is it a church, a village or an area? And why is it in Meath when the rest of Drogheda seems to be in Louth? ???
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,235499.msg1378984.html#msg1378984
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Thanks for your messages.
The last posts I made led to us building up a bank of information which has then been left until now. But now we're trying to pick it up again following an exchange of info about the Wallis', the family John married into. We're no longer looking for John (1866) but any further information that might be out there about his family, of whom we can find no trace whatsoever.
Thanks for any help we can get - we are total novices on accessing Irish Records and are looking to get better!
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Army records often include locations as Civil Parishes. St. Mary civil parish was based south of the River Boyne and originally in Co. Meath. The town of Drogheda is now fully in Co. Louth. St. Mary's is also the name of RC and Church of Ireland Parishes covering much the same area as the civil parish. The RC parish also cover two adjacent civil parishes - i.e. Colp and Kilsharvan.
Do you know what denomination your Sheridans were ?
Shane
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I have John Sheridan's certificate of attestation when he joined the Royal Irish Rifles at Dundalk in 1883. He states that his religion is Roman Catholic on the document. He gives his trade as labourer, and makes his mark rather than signing his name.
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Transcripts of parish records for the RC Parish of St. Mary are included on the pay-website of the Irish Family History Foundation at www.rootsireland.ie Select the Co. Meath county centre link, and make sure to filter by parish.. as there looks like there could be some duplicate entries.
Using the free search showed up a few possible Sheridan/Winters baptisms in the parish including a Mathew in 1856.
Do you have a birth cert for John ?
It should include his father's occupation, and may mention a more detailed address for the family - which could help.
Tracing forward is more complicated - unless you have clues as to later places of residence etc, it's just a case of following up possible leads in the area, e.g. possible marriage and death certs, census returns etc, and then gradually widening the search area..
Shane
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Thanks for this information, Shane. :)
The link has really helped, and we're moving forward! We really need to get that birth certificate sorted now.
Any further help from anyone greatly appreciated!
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I find RootsIreland a really 'clunky' website that takes a bit of time to learn your way around.
It is showing 7 children in total with parents John Sheridan and Anne Winters at St Mary's between 1856 and 1866. Did you get all of them?
It also has a John Sheridan/Anne Winters marriage, which is in 1856 in Co Louth.
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No, we certainly didn't - I was really pleased to have found Mathew and Francis! Can you tell me who you found? And about the marriage?
We've been at a block with this part of the family for a long time - thank you!
Sue
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I did wonder ! I had terrible trouble with that site when I started using it. Missing things I was looking for and buying the wrong records!!!
A good trick, as in this case when you have the parents names, is just fill in the Surname and put a 0 (zero) in the first name section, then in the advanced search put in the parents names and all the baptisms for them will pop up, that way you will find baptisms even if you didn't know they happened.
That's how I found these:
Mathew 1856
Catherine 1858
Mary 1859
Rose Anne 1861
Francis 1863
Bridget 1865
John 1866
Also it's good because if you buy a bunch of records together it is much cheaper than buying them one by one.
The Marriage for John Sheridan and Anne Winters was just a case of doing a search for All Ireland using one name and then the other and finding the 2 marriage records that matched up by adding Spouse in the advanced search -
but as I said it is Co Louth in 1856
I also just saw a marriage a of Rose Anne Sheridan 1890 at St Mary's in Meath.
Hope that helps.
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Thank you so much, and thank you for finding these names for us. We did find the site difficult, but your explanation of how to use the advanced search is really helpful.
Can you tell us what information we would actually see if we then paid? Do you get more info or are we better looking at registration office photocopies for the later ones?
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The Meath records on RootsIreland are transcripts of RC parish registers. For events after 1864 it would usually be better to check for civil records as these can show more details - i.e. father's occupation and sometimes a more detailed address.
RC baptisms would usually show date of baptism, name of the child, full names for both parents, names of two sponsors/godparents and possibly an address.
see: Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)
Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
Shane
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Thanks, Shane. So we'd be best getting these parish records from RootsIreland, and the civil registration of John 1866.
Brilliant advice over the last 2 days - thank you so much. From the advanced search facility, the marriage was in Monasterboice.
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A quick update.
John and Anne's children are as noted above by Adee 101, and the Anne Winters and John Sheridan marriage was on 4 Sept 1856 at Monasterboice. Anne is the daughter of Anne Mullen and Peter Winters and was baptised in 1837 at Monasterboice.
Adee 101 also found Rose Ann's marriage in St Mary's Drogheda on 23 June 1890 to Thomas Kenny of Whicklow. I have tried to trace them in the 1901 and 1911 censuses but to no avail. Francis and Catherine Sheridan were their witnesses, however, so we have moved on from knowing they were alive when John signed up in 1883!
After years of stagnation, we have made huge leaps forward in one weekend. Thank you to all who have helped. If there's anyone out there who can take the story forward (or indeed backwards!), the search goes on...
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This Rose Kenny born Louth with husband Thomas might be worth considering-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_West/Eglington_Terrace/11913
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Well her age and place of birth are right. He had given Wicklow on his marriage declaration, but maybe it's now worth getting one of the children's birth certificates to verify.
Thank you - I'll renew my search in 1901 as well with this evidence.
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Here's a possible baptism for one of the children of Rose and Thomas from irishGenealogy :
Baptism of Richard Francis Kenny - 3 Dec 1900 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/218d670078673)
Date of Birth : 29 Nov 1900
Parents : Thomas Kenny & Roseanne Sheridan
Parish : St. Mary's Donnybrook
Shane
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a few more baptisms for the family from the IrishGenealogy included in the list - starting with the eldest child listed in 1911 - Winifred
Kenny/Sheridan baptisms - 1890s (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=&namel=kenny&exact=&name2fm=&name2l=sheridan&location=&dd=&mm=&yy=&diocese=DUBLIN%20%28RC%29&parish=¢ury=1800&decade=1890&type=B&sort=date&pageSize=100&ddB=&ddM=&ddD=&mmB=&mmM=&mmD=&yyB=&yyM=&yyD=&locationB=&locationM=&locationD=&keyword=&member0=&member1=&member2=&member3=&member4=&member5=&member6=&member7=&member8=&member9=&namef0=&namef1=&namef2=&namef3=&namef4=&namef5=&namef6=&namef7=&namef8=&namef9=&namel0=&namel1=&namel2=&namel3=&namel4=&namel5=&namel6=&namel7=&namel8=&namel9=&submit=Search)
Shane
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This is brilliant. What do you put into the search engine to get it to provide this list of baptisms?
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see below - 1) enter the surname, 2) mother's maiden name (only works for RC baptisms), 3) select 1800s, then 1890s and 4) click on baptisms
Shane
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John Sheridan that entered the army - I'm sure this is his father, sister and niece in 1901
(Anne Kenny daughter of Thomas Kenny and Roseanne Sheridan Kenny)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/St__Laurence_Gate/Mary_Street/1568873/
Tara
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Wow, Tara. we never expected to find John Sheridan, my husband's great-great-grandfather alive in the 1901 and the Mary Sheridan daughter and Anne Kenny grand-daughter would seem to clinch it. And they are in the right place.
It is the first time we have come across Anne Kenny however. Her date of birth would be 1890 which would make her the oldest of William and Rose Ann's children. Do we need to check her out to be 100% sure?
Sue
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Hiya,
The ages on census are notorioulsy wrong so I would say she was born 1891 - they year after her parents were married. The fact that her name was Anne is good as she was obviously named after Anne Winters Sheridan.
Tara
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Thomas and Rose Ann's daughter Winifred was born in 1891 so it possibly would have to be 1890. Thomas and Rose Ann weren't young when they married by any means.
Mary Sheridan is in the same house in 1911 (although she does seem to have aged more slowly than the rest of us(!) but her niece this time is named as Annie KELLY as opposed to Kenny. Misheard by the enumerator? And if she's still there, she obviously wasn't visiting in 1901!
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This looks like it may the death of John Sheridan Senior
John Sheridan
Date Apr-May-Jun 1904
District Drogheda
Volume 2 Page 347
It states that his age at death was abt 78 so this would tie in with the 1901 census.
Tara
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In doing Irish 'country' trees I have come across time and again where the first born child of a couple was sent to live with the grandparents. It was a tradition of sorts. I have been lead to believe that this was to help the 'elderly' couple when they got older - but someone else may have a better explanation.
Tara
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We are really impressed with all the help we are being give here to finally find out about this family that seems to have been hiding for so long.
I've found a possibility for son Francis in the 1901 census, with a possible marriage to Jane Jan-Mar 1888.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/Fair_Gate/Green_Lanes/1567128/
Is there any way of fnding out a surname for her before I send for certificates?
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Her name was Jane CURRY
Tara
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Tara - how did you do that ?
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I will pm you !
Tara
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Are you going to look into the WINTERS line
The marriage of Peter Winters and Anne Mullen is on ifhf in 1836 in Louth
ifhf is showing 7 children baptised to this couple
Tara
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Having considered the best way forward we have decided to:
send for Francis and Jane's marriage certificate as this will give us access to more information and will also give us the witnesses at their marriage. We already know that the witnesses at Rose Ann's marriage were Francis and Catherine Sheridan
look for Anne Winters Sheridan's death as this must be between 1883 when John signed up and 1901 when John is on the census as a widower
look for anything we can find about the birth of Anne Kenny (1901 census)/ Kelly (1911 census)
Try to find out what happened to the Kennys who we can't find in the 1901 census, and whose baptisms pre 1900 had all been in St Mary's Donnybrook as regular as clockwork. From the 1911 census it is clear there are at least 3 children born between 1904 and 1909. She is 50 in 1911. Is this the right Rose Kenny? - she says she has been married 23 years and we know she was married in 1890. Her birthplace is correct, however Thomas Kenny who she married gave Wicklow as his birthplace, on the census it gives Carlow. She claims she has had had 7 children with 7 living, but if she had Anne (living with grandparents?) and Mary whose baptism is in Donnybrook on the day of her birth 0n 12 Nov 1894 and doesn't subsequently appear, that would make 9! However, some of the 'family names' do add up!
]ook up the marriage of Peter Winters and Anne Mullen 1836 in Louth and their baptised children, as suggested by Tara.
Any comments? Please?!
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This looks like the death of Anne Winters Sheridan - which was just before the 1901 census
It states she was about 70 when she died:
Anne Sheridan
Date Jan-Feb-Mar 1901
District: Drogheda
Volume 2 Page 369
Tara
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....
Try to find out what happened to the Kennys who we can't find in the 1901 census, and whose baptisms pre 1900 had all been in St Mary's Donnybrook as regular as clockwork.
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however Thomas Kenny who she married gave Wicklow as his birthplace, on the census it gives Carlow.
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Based on the baptism records, the family seem to have lived at 10 Eglington Terrace from 1896 at least but I see no sign of the street on the 1901 returns - maybe it's one of the unfilmed or missing streets ?
Some RC parishes overlap counties Wicklow and Carlow - e.g. Hackettstown - so maybe Thomas came from one of these ?
Shane
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Thanks for that, Shane.
Unfortunately on the marriage cert we only have Wicklow, so maybe we'd have to start tracing father Bartholomew, hoping that that would give us a clue. He, or another Bartholomew was a supporter at Mary's baptism in 1894, but given Thomas age (from the 1911 census age given, he would be around 53 at this time), Bartholomew could well be in his 70s by 1901. Mind you, old John Sheridan was still living aged 75!
I have nagging concerns about whether we have the right Rose and Thomas... The number of children, Ann(i)e, her age when the last child is born...
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Tara, I've only just seen your post. That would fit her age totally. Thank you -you're a star!
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I have nagging concerns about whether we have the right Rose and Thomas... The number of children, Ann(i)e, her age when the last child is born...
I doubt it's the wrong Thomas and Rose - Rose's place of birth on the 1911 census fits (Drogheda) perfectly and that for Thomas is close - plus the baptisms confirm the surname for Rose. I wouldn't say there are that many Sheridan / Kenny couples with a Rose Anne from Drogheda.
Have you a civil marriage cert for Rose and Thomas ?
Shane
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Not the official cert, but we downloaded the transcribed IFHF document. Marriage St Mary's Drogheda, 23 June 1890, Rose Anne Sheridan, Mary St, Roman Catholic, father John Sheridan married Thomas Kenny, Wicklow, Roman Catholic, father Bartholomew Kenny. Witnesses Catherine and Francis Sheridan (her sister and brother)
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It may not help much, but the other detail that a civil cert would show would be occupations for the groom and both fathers, sometimes the bride..
Shane
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You should also be aware that the residence listed on a civil marriage certificate is that of the bride/groom at time of marriage and not where they were born, where their family was living, etc. Perhaps this is also the case for the marruage record for Thomas Kenny and Rose Anne Sheridan.
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There's a possible match for the father of Thomas on Griffiths - a Bartholomew Kenny listed in the townland of Davisshill, Co. Carlow. There are two entries in the same townland - one for land and the other for a house, but I think they probably relate to the same person. This valuation record is dated 1852.
see : Bartholemew Kenny - Carlow (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=11&Submit.y=7&familyname=kenny&firstname=BARTHOLOMEW&baronyname=&countyname=CARLOW&unionname=&parishname=)
Davisshill townland is about 6km south of Hacketstown.
Shane
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Following on from the Kenny info you found on Griffith valuation, we have also found Winters and Sheridans at Silloge, Monasterboice, County Louth. Can you tell us anything more about this document and how to interpret it?
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Do you mean interpret Griffiths ?
It lists occupiers of property along their immediate lessor (i.e. landlord) with basic details of the house or land. The Valuation was carried out between 1847 and about 1864 - the exact date depends on the area.
The AskAboutIreland website also allows you to view a map of the townland with the various sites marked out, so you can often see the exact location of the building or land in question.
If you google Griffths Valuation you can locate further details
Shane
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Great - thanks for the info.
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Hello all. I am new to this but have stumbled across this thread in my search for infornation. My grandfather is listed as a Francis Michael Sheridan from Baltray, Drogheda born in 1896. I do not have a location for his birth. He died in 1964. I suspect he might be related to the Sheridans in this thread. I am trying to determine his parents. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Welcome to Rootschat
The first thing you need is Francis' marriage cert to get his father's name and occupation.
If he married in Ireland before 1941 (1922 for Northern Ireland) his marriage should be here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
There is a Francis Sheridan born in 1896 but in Green Lanes Fairgate his father Francis is a postman.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02183/1826513.pdf
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Hi msheridanfall,
Welcome! You've brought me back to this after a long absence!
I think you have the right family as Francis is indeed in my tree. I have Francis married to Jane (nee Curry) in 1888, with 10 children, one of them being your Francis in 1895/6. I have no further info on that part of the family going forward in time, so was delighted to see that this is your grandfather.
Francis senior's parents were indeed John Sheridan and Anne Winters as you can find in this thread. I don't go a lot further back but would love to share with you. If you could do a couple more posts, you'll then be able to private message me through this site!
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Haven't read through all the thread but
My grandfather is listed as a Francis Michael Sheridan from Baltray, Drogheda born in 1896. I do not have a location for his birth.
Francis Sheridan born 7 Greenlanes, Drogheda-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02183/1826513.pdf
St. Peter's looks to be the local church- some later records on pay site as well as the free ones on NLI site-
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0211&parish=St.%20Peter's,%20Drogheda
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Oh my goodness. So excited to see these replies. My stumbling point is that he also seemed to go by Michael Francis Sheridan and there seem to be several Michael Sheridan’s born to the Sheridan brothers in Baltray around that time frame. He came to the US in 1913 originally and married Elsie M. Ball in 1919 in Plymouth, Devon. His birthday is listed as March 26, 1896.
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Is there any free way to determine his parents? I saw where I could pay for marriage certificate. Feel free to message me.
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Have sent you a pm.
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Unfortunately we now have no idea what information you've been sent by PM but you'll probably need to verify the details you have since the son of Francis Sheridan and Jane Curry was born 17 Dec.1895 not 26 Mar.1896.
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I’m leaning toward it is not the Francis mentioned. I believe he went by Michael when younger and switched to Francis in US. From what I can find on Irish census for BaltrayTown. I believe his parents are James Sheridan and Mary (possibly Owens ?) and his siblings are Peter, James and Catherine.
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Exactly where did you get the birthdate of 26 Mar.1896?
What details are given on 1913 manifest when arriving in U.S.? should list last foreign residence & contact details for next of kin.
Francis/Michael's marriage certificate should list his father's name and occupation. The Michael born 26 Mar.1896 to James & Mary (nee Owens) was the son of a sailor-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_amends/cert_1896/1826528a.pdf
Here are widow Mary & children in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Louth/Termonfeckin/Baltray_Town/1570247
Children Catherine & Michael in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Louth/Termonfeckin/Baltray_Town/574195
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Naturalization paperwork for Francis Michael Sheridan show birth as 26 Mar.1896 Baltray, marriage details, etc.
Catherine & Michael arrived in U.S. 24 Nov.1913. Next of kin was brother Peter of Baltray. Passage was paid by sister of Mrs. Uttendorfer?, Schenectady Ave in Brooklyn, N.Y.
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James Sheridan, sailor from Baltray, age 50, died 1899-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05797/4640235.pdf
Widow Mary died 1910 age 45-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05428/4517621.pdf
James & Mary married 1883- both father's were seamen-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10949/8001827.pdf
Daughter Jane born 1884-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02669/1983910.pdf
Son James born 1888-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02527/1936535.pdf
Daughter Catherine Mary born 1891-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02390/1891366.pdf
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Oh my goodness! Thank you so much. This is him! I had the naturalization papers which is where I got the birthdate from and from the address, I know it is the correct person as my aunt, his daughter, used to live down the street.
Now is he related to these other Sheridan’s in this thread in any traceable way?
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Well at least all today’s feedback has helped to get that far. As I said in the pm, the birthdate was the sticking point and getting the certificates will give you the evidence you need to be sure of your beliefs and that extra time means you don’t go too far down the wrong path. Sheridan is such a common name in the area, and none of these names appear as yet in this tree so probably no links unfortunately!