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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: juniorhack on Sunday 19 February 12 23:23 GMT (UK)
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Hi,First post! I'm researching the Mathison(spelling may vary)of Berwick upon tweed/Holy island/Kyloe etc...The earliest I can find is John Mathison b1811 Cheswick(or Ancroft).
Can anyone help?
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Hi juniorhack
Welcome to rootschat :)
We'll need a bit more to go on if you have it. The baptism for John also falls into the Barrington period so should have mother's maiden name and where both parents were born. Do you have this information?
Christine
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Sorry,don't know parents names,I suspect they may be John M. b1771 and Jane b1774,but have no evidence to support this.He had siblings,Jane b1818,Mary b1818, Margaret b1811 and Thomas b1816.Thanks.
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Ancroft C of E:
John Matthison baptised 24 Oct 1809 1st son of Thomas Matthison of Cheswick, native of East Ord, Parish of Tweedmouth by his wife Jane daur of John Watson of Unthank, Farmer, Native of Beal, Parish of Holy Island, born 27 Sep 1809
Margaret Mattison born 8 Jan 1808, baptised 29 Jan 1st daur of Thomas Mattison, same details as above.
I don't know if these are yous or not. The Cheswick seems to match
Janis
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I think you may be right! One of Johns children had the middle name of Watson.
One thing that puzzles me,is the year of birth,I know about census records being rounded up or down but I would have thought to the nearest round figure,it would appear Johns age was consistently wrong all his life!
Many thanks for the info,how would I go further back as I want to find out if the reputed Norwegian ancestry is true!
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The ages were rounded down. A person listed as 20 could be 20,21,22,23,24.
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Probable baptisms of some of Johns siblings at the United Presbyterian Chapel in Spittal.
Jane Mathewson, daughter of Thomas Mathewson and Jane, his wife, Chiswick, Parish of Ancroft and County of Durham, born June 27th and baptized July 23rd 1811.
Thomas Mathison, son of Thomas Mathison and Jane, his wife, Cheswick, in the Parish of Ancroft, County of Durham, born 15th and baptized 25th March 1814.
Robert Mathison, son of Thomas Mathison and of Jane, his wife, of Cheswick in the Parish of Ancroft, County of Durham, born 4th, baptized 18th May 1816.
How about this baptism at the same Chapel in Spittal, given Janis info that Johns father Thomas was a native of East Ord.
Thomas Matheson and Marjory Matheson in East Ord had a child born Sept 18th and baptized Febr 22nd 1770, called Thomas.
Alan.
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Dear Janis and Alan,Brilliant work, many thanks,I expected spelling variations but not as many as that! Cheers Pete.
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Ancroft C of E:
John Matthison baptised 24 Oct 1809 1st son of Thomas Matthison of Cheswick, native of East Ord, Parish of Tweedmouth by his wife Jane daur of John Watson of Unthank, Farmer, Native of Beal, Parish of Holy Island, born 27 Sep 1809
Margaret Mattison born 8 Jan 1808, baptised 29 Jan 1st daur of Thomas Mattison, same details as above.
I don't know if these are yous or not. The Cheswick seems to match
Janis
Hi Janis, I think I might be a descendent of the John Watson, farmer of Unthank, that you have found. I am almost certainly related to his daughter Jane via the Matthison connection. The most far back ancestor on my family tree is Ralph Watson, farmer of Unthank, Tweedmouth who was born in Beal around 1779. I have also found two Adminstrative bonds that connect the Watson and Matthison families to a farm at Fenham near Beal. However I can't find any further information on the John Watson you mention above through web searches. So I wondered how you came across it? I would really love to identify Ralph's parents and siblings, so any suggestions about where to look would be most, welcome.
Best wishes, Reuben
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Ancroft C of E:
John Matthison baptised 24 Oct 1809 1st son of Thomas Matthison of Cheswick, native of East Ord, Parish of Tweedmouth by his wife Jane daur of John Watson of Unthank, Farmer, Native of Beal, Parish of Holy Island, born 27 Sep 1809
Margaret Mattison born 8 Jan 1808, baptised 29 Jan 1st daur of Thomas Mattison, same details as above.
I don't know if these are yous or not. The Cheswick seems to match
Janis
Hi Janis, I think I might be a descendent of the John Watson, farmer of Unthank, that you have found. I am almost certainly related to his daughter Jane via the Matthison connection. The most far back ancestor on my family tree is Ralph Watson, farmer of Unthank, Tweedmouth who was born in Beal around 1779. I have also found two Adminstrative bonds that connect the Watson and Matthison families to a farm at Fenham near Beal. However I can't find any further information on the John Watson you mention above through web searches. So I wondered how you came across it? I would really love to identify Ralph's parents and siblings, so any suggestions about where to look would be most, welcome.
Best wishes, Reuben
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Hi Reuben, welcome to rootschat
Janis has a large number of microfiche of parish records so I assume that she will have obtained the information from there.
At that time all that information would have been provided within the baptism record.
Christine
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Just as c-side said. I have transcripts.
Janis
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Hi Reuben, welcome to rootschat
Janis has a large number of microfiche of parish records so I assume that she will have obtained the information from there.
At that time all that information would have been provided within the baptism record.
Christine
Thanks Christine, I'm quite new to using forums and to family history. I'm bumbling around a bit, pressing the wrong links etc ,ending up in the wrong place but hopefully I'll get the hang of it soon. Janis seems to be around so I'll ask her about the records.
Cheers Reubencat
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Just as c-side said. I have transcripts.
Janis
Hi Janis, are you researching family from the Ancroft area too? I've only been doing it for a month but have been amazed at what I have found online. But I didn't manage to find any transcripts with the kind of detail that that record contained. I use Find my Past, Genes Reunited and Family Search but possibly I'm not making best use of the search facilities.
If you happen to have noticed anymore Watsons from Ancroft I'd be very curious to hear about them, especially if they are also associated with Unthank or Fenham. My guess is that my ancestor Ralph Watson born in Beal 1779 (or 1781 in 1841 census) is a brother of Jane Watson but I have found no evidence so far. On the map Beal looks really tiny. I can't help feeling that if there were any Watsons living there they must have been related.
Anyway, nice to meet you. If you have any further info please let me know.
Cheers, Reubencat
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Hi Reuben
That extra detail is only available for C of E records in Northumberland and Durham from 1797 to 1813 because the Bishop of Durham at that time was an amateur genealogist and he required it to be recorded. Sadly for us the records were standardised nationally in 1813 and we lost our lovely mine of information.
The research sites you are using rarely, if ever, add the extra detail but freereg does.
http://www.freereg.org.uk/
If the coverage is there - and it is for Ancroft - you might find even more of your family :D
Christine
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Thank you Christine, that's really helpful! I'll try that site, hasn't come across it before. It's quite exciting and addictive this genealogy isn't it? But there's so much to learn! Thanks again 😊
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It's certainly addictive and there is more to learn than you can even guess at. ;D
Keep reading the threads and asking the questions - there's loads of knowledgeable people on here :D
Happy hunting
Christine
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Hi Christine
Thanks for your message. I spent a few hours looking at the Freereg.org site and found a few interesting things out. My ancestor Ralph Watson is recorded, in his son, John's baptism record, as being a Husbandman (a tenant farmer I've discovered) and that his abode was a place called Unthank Engine. This is quite a peculiar name for a house isn't it? The 1851 census describes him as an annuitant living at Unthank Moor House. He's 72 by then. Do you think tenant farmers had pensions from the landowners in those days?
Best wishes, Reubencat
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Pleased that you are finding freereg useful.
I think Unthank Engine is the name of the place, not a house. Unthank is an Old English word for squatter or a place where squatters live. There are one or two such named places in Northumberland - dating from around 1200. Engine is a post industrial revolution term usually indicating some mechanical process - iron works perhaps or some such. So I would surmise that there was some industrial work going on near to Unthank - hence the identity of the place.
As to landowners paying pensions - it would not be common. In fact I would have said not at all - very little philanthropy about at that time but as he is listed as an annuitant then someone was paying him for some reason. Do you know who the landowner was - there may be some estate records at the archives.
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I got started because of an old farm book I inherited which refers to Unthank which I thought was the name of the farm. Ralph is described as a farmer and Unthank itself is 3 miles out of Tweedmouth and has one or two farm houses and farm cottages. And it also has Unthank Mine which I think is one of the oldest - a mineral mine I think. So maybe the place was so small that it got named after whatever was considered the most important work going on there at the time?
I might be able to find out the land owner because I have just downloaded a book written in 1851 about the area. At least who it was at that date. I expect it was owned by one family for generations. It would be good to know where the money was coming from. I know it didn't help the family prosper because they went bankrupt and the sons became miners and the girls went into service. I think there was a period when corn prices went into slump and a lot of people gave up farming.
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Pleased that you are finding freereg useful.
I think Unthank Engine is the name of the place, not a house. Unthank is an Old English word for squatter or a place where squatters live. There are one or two such named places in Northumberland - dating from around 1200. Engine is a post industrial revolution term usually indicating some mechanical process - iron works perhaps or some such. So I would surmise that there was some industrial work going on near to Unthank - hence the identity of the place.
As to landowners paying pensions - it would not be common. In fact I would have said not at all - very little philanthropy about at that time but as he is listed as an annuitant then someone was paying him for some reason. Do you know who the landowner was - there may be some estate records at the archives.
Hi again Christine,
Apologies If I am using the wrong posting technique but I'm not very experienced with forums. I actually wanted to post a question but didnt know how to, hence my including the quote, which isn't strictly relevant.
My question relates to the baptism record of Ralph Watson, b. 1779 his father was John Watson of Beal (then in the county Durham) and he is described as a 'Waiting Man'. Would you know what that term meant by any chance?
Best wishes, Reubencat
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Hi there,
First things first - to start a new topic is simple - go to the FORUM section (button above), curser down to the England section and click on Northumberland. At the bottom of the first Northumberland page you will see a button marked NEW TOPIC - click on that and start :D That's assuming you want your topic to be in Northumberland, of course!
As for a Waiting Man - I'm not sure. A Wait Man was a nightwatchman and a Waiter (or Tide Waiter) was a type of customs officer. Could it be either of these?
Christine
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Just had a quick look at National Archives - apparently a Waiting man was a servant.
C
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Great, thanks Christine! I think it might mean servant too. But I am surprised because his sons Ralph and John at Unthank. They leased the farm from Prideaux John Selby who was the landowner at that time (1822). But possibly John Watson senior was a servant of the Selbys. I will have to see if I can find out more. If I do I will let you know. And thanks for the guidance on posting, it should be more straightforward next time 😊
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Just a few more bits of info to add. I live near your ancestors' places so am familiar with many of them. The mine at Unthank was a coal mine, one of many very small ones in North Northumberland where the coal seam was quite near the surface. They are all closed now.
A member of our local Family History Society lives at Unthank.
Beal, Cheswick and Fenham are all very close. Beal was large enough to support a school for children living on surrounding farms and so was Cheswick. Children from Fenham went to Fenwick school -I know that because my grandfather lived at Fenham and walked to school in Fenwick. Places in this area which were classed as part of North Durham were part of the Diocese of Durham which can be confusing for people not familiar to the area.
My ancestor William WATSON was born at Cheswick in 1739, married Isabel Sibbit, had several children and died at Cheswick in 1822, buried at Ancroft. Most people from Cheswick are connected to Ancroft Church. Fenham and Beal are usually connected to Kyloe Church, now closed.
If I can help in any way, just ask!
Val
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Hi Val, thanks for getting in touch! It's exciting to hear from you because I don't know the area at all, although it turns out that my ancestors lived there for over a hundred years! I knew nothing about them growing up and it was only after inheriting an old farm book that I began researching them. I have learnt a lot in the last six months thanks to the help and mentoring I have had from friendly forum members on sites like this :) I'm pretty sure our ancestors must have known each other and may possibly have been related.
The furthest back I have got is with a recetly discovered marriage bond dated 1765
Watson, John, Beal, Kyloe, 21 yeo
Wallice, Marg. wooler, 21, wid
Stavert, Thomas, Norham, Yeo
There is an old administrative bond that shows that John and Margaret farmed both at Fenham and Unthank.
John and Margaret's family were Jane, John and my direct ancestor Ralph Watson b. 1779. They are sure to have had siblings but I haven't yet identified them.
Jane married Thomas Mathison who farmed at Fenham. On the Bond, her father John Watson is down as being farmer, Little Mill, Longhoughton.
John, their son, married Jane Humble and was known as John Watson farmer of Unthank
Ralph married Grace Temple and was known as Ralph Watson farmer of Unthank
In 1841 Ralph was recorded as living at Unthank with his wife Grace and grown up children: Patience b. 1815 John b. 1821 James 1826, Elizabeth 1826 and Ralph 1827. Two other daughters Margaret and Susannah died in childhood.
In 1851 Ralph is 72 and recorded as an annuitant, born at Beal and living at Unthank Moor House with his adult children, none of who seem to have been involved in farming.
Ralph Watson jnr b. 1827, my GGG became an accountant, then a banker and married a woman called Jane Dick. They lived at Tweedmouth.
Ralph and Jane's son George Temple Watson was my GG grandfather and his daughter Amy Grace my grandmother.
I'd be very curious to know if people's names relate to your family tree. And it would be really great to have some guidence on the geography - proximity of villages etc.
Best wishes, Val ( my name too! 😀)