RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Mr Edd on Wednesday 22 February 12 16:44 GMT (UK)
-
Hi All
I think most of you with links to the Black Patch will have heard the Charlie Chaplin story by now. If not there's plenty online.
I have recently made a connection between Absolom Smith king of the Gypsies who died at Twyford, Leicestershire in 1826 (who was a brother of Jasper)
linking them to & Esau & Henty King & Queen of the Black Patch.
This is thanks to another researcher. Anyway this alleged link to Chaplin is through is mother Hannah Hill (also noted online as Hannah Smith Hill) it's says that Hannah Hill was descended from Romany roots.
Try as I might I cannot make any connection with Chaplin's mother or Grandmother. One website suggests the connection is through his Great Grandmother.
Elsewhere another site goes as far to suggest that Esau might be Chaplin's Grandfather.
Has anyone delved into this? also I could do with an accurate list of Esau & Henty's Children/Grandchildren etc if anyone has such a list.
Thank you
-
Hi,
I found this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannah_Chaplin
Several family trees on the ancestry site suggest that Hannahs mother Mary Ann Terry was born about 1840 in Surrey. I have had a look on FindMyPast at the 1841 census and found that there are two Mary Terrys born in Surrey one in 1838 and she is with her parents George and Ester and sister Emma and Mary, William and John King and Lousa Avis. The other Mary Terry is born in 1839 and is with her mother Mary, three John Tournier's Mary and Frederick Tournier and interestlingly Esther Smith aged 10.
So Esther Smith maybe the one to research.
Regards
Lyne
Regards
Lyne
-
The story about Charlie Chapplin is not true, He was not born on the black patch.
-
From online census and records so far I have found no connection to Romany in regards to Chaplin and i know his grandson has visited the University of Liverpool looking for any clues and in regard to making a film? In his son's book he said it wasent true and that Chaplin him self used to use the gypsy story to enhance the mystery when he first started out in show buisness a bit like Yul Bryner and like wise his son said similar ?but who knows also like Elvis all searches have come up with no Romany connections as far as i can see?
-
The story about Charlie Chapplin is not true, He was not born on the black patch.
Yet, members of Charlies family visit Black Patch for unveiling of the memorial and the annual Romany reunion.
Even MI5 could not find a birth certificate for Charlie.
The majority of Romany's did not bother with birth certificates .
-
Since the previous post a fellow researcher as well as a search in Newspaper reveals what is Charlie Chaplins Birth and explains why not found if they were "touring at the time with a show"
(Roy Stockdill-Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer)
The record is just one paragraph at the very bottom of a long column and it
reads:"BIRTH. - April 15th, the wife of Charles Chaplin, nee Lily Harley, of a
beautiful boy. Mother and son both doing well."
There isn't the slightest doubt that this is a record of Chaplin's birth since
his father was Charles Chaplin senior and his mother Hannah was also on the
stage under the name of Lily Harley.
There are various versions of where Chaplin was born but most accounts give his
birth as 16 April 1889 at Walworth, Surrey. However, this cutting shows the
birth as being a day earlier. He appears with his mother Hannah in the 1891
census, which gives his birth place as Walworth
-
I remember having quick look at the Chaplin side a few years ago and I think some of the Chaplins in Suffolk were 'hawkers'. His Grandfather, Spencer Chaplin from Suffolk, married an Ellen Elizabeth Smith. His Grt Grandfather was a Shadrack Chaplin who married a Sophia Hancock. I think some of the Chaplin side were also from Staffordshire.
Just a random thought, but maybe any Romany connection was on the paternal side?
-
Ellen Elizabeth Chaplin (nee Smith's) family look relatively unproven
Her father William Smith Born about 1807 in Felixstowe, Suffolk
Her mother Emily (Emma) Smith formerly Bristo
Born 10 Jan 1809 in Kirton, Suffolk, England, United Kingdom
Bristow(e) has been noted in this index "The Traveller – Tinker – Gypsy Surname Index of Great Britain"
Also if we look at Mary Ann Terry. The Terry surname is there too.
Also Jack Hill that wrote a letter to Chaplin claiming he knew Chaplin was born on the Black Patch. The Hill name appears as well
http://www.ausgenealogy.com/Avon/JJGypsyIndex.pdf
Makes you wonder ... all this Romany influence?
-
Was Emma Smith (nee Bristow) born to William Bristo(w) and Rebbeca Page?
This William Bristows parents were Jeremiah Bristo(w) and Margaret COOPER.
http://gayford.one-name.net/getperson.php?personID=I060&tree=T004
Maybe sallyyorks has a good theory, there could be quite a bit of Romany in Charlie Chaplins tree as well as other bloodlines - We all know women run the family though right?
-
Ellen Elizabeth Chaplin (nee Smith's) family look relatively unproven
Her father William Smith Born about 1807 in Felixstowe, Suffolk
Her mother Emily (Emma) Smith formerly Bristo
Born 10 Jan 1809 in Kirton, Suffolk, England, United Kingdom
Bristow(e) has been noted in this index "The Traveller – Tinker – Gypsy Surname Index of Great Britain"
Also if we look at Mary Ann Terry. The Terry surname is there too.
Also Jack Hill that wrote a letter to Chaplin claiming he knew Chaplin was born on the Black Patch. The Hill name appears as well
http://www.ausgenealogy.com/Avon/JJGypsyIndex.pdf
Makes you wonder ... all this Romany influence?
The surnames 'Chaplin' ('Suffolk', Yorkshire) and 'Hancock' are in the linked list too, and of course 'Smith'.
-
Wonder if the Chaplin family has ever tried a modern DNA test to try and pin down more evidence of Romany origin?
-
Since the previous post a fellow researcher as well as a search in Newspaper reveals what is Charlie Chaplin's Birth and explains why not found if they were "touring at the time with a show"
(Roy Stockdill-Genealogical researcher, writer & lecturer)
The record is just one paragraph at the very bottom of a long column and it
reads:"BIRTH. - April 15th, the wife of Charles Chaplin, nee Lily Harley, of a
beautiful boy. Mother and son both doing well."
There isn't the slightest doubt that this is a record of Chaplin's birth since
his father was Charles Chaplin senior and his mother Hannah was also on the
stage under the name of Lily Harley.
There are various versions of where Chaplin was born but most accounts give his
birth as 16 April 1889 at Walworth, Surrey. However, this cutting shows the
birth as being a day earlier. He appears with his mother Hannah in the 1891
census, which gives his birth place as Walworth
Hi Sue
Hows things with you, its me michael, a very interesting story about Chaplin, theres a mass of information that as yet to come out, i remember you telling me about how hard it was to do genealogy research years ago, how you would travel to read records, you told me you had paper records that you had transcribed all in a box in an old fastion type of way, in those days i would say you had to be very dedicated, you have helped many people over the yeares i am sure everyone knows that, you are one of the pioneers of these generations i am sure you will be yourself researched by researchers in the future, thank you for the many times that you gave me information from the census records, you do not need to write back, i just wanted everyone to know that i appreciate the efforts that you have done not only for me but for everyone, you have helped people with very strong ancestral trees and then its true you evan gave me your time to, i am sure many people are grateful for the hard work you have done over the yeares. Look after yourself.
-
Hi Michael thankyou for your kind words sorry late reply only just saw it as dont come on here very often ,hope you and your family are well and i see your a good researcher yourself now with all your newspaper info you have the "bug" it does get addictive and as you say so interesting the history side of things keep well and happy x
-
Sue
The family is doing fine, thank you, i was wondering if there was any chance you may still have all the census records that you discovered for me yeares back, i lost everything that i had saved, it is fine if you do not have them, i am not asking you to look again, i would like them to show the younger ones and remember how people are all linked back through bolsover woodsetts Attercliffe, Sheffield, Linconshire, Derbyshire and Notts plus more places, i have learned that in Gipsy family's no matter who they are big or small famous or not known, well evan if you have a name like Smith, well your great great grandad or evan dad or gr gr granmar may not be who you thought they were, the real truth may never be found, D.N.A will only make things worse as you get futher back for it may bring up connections that may be used to say you are related in this way when the truth is you could use D.N.A to connect in several ways from several distant family members, it can be made to work and it may sound real, it can be twisted, in time the science of D.N.A will say i was right, remember how you told me people only use the census reports to confirm a family name when truthfully they are not of that family, most times they do not evan know this, i am glad i do not claim to be from nobody only i am the son of my Mother and she was the daughter of her Mother, they all could be just local girls from yeares back who married or had a relationship with someone out of a Gipsy family or a Gipsy Aunt or Uncle link, who knows, they also may be stronger connections, i do not care each way, i intend to try and find out, if you do hold any records still from the Wilsher Wilshaw wiltshire and more names would you please put them on here for me, thank you again for the first time you did all that hard research, if you can not help me i think it is best to just do not write back, remember forever that i am very gratefully for the times that you helped me in the past, if you cannot help i suppose this will be the last time we talk, you be happy to, think of the young ones who come into this world when we are gone, leave them at least the truth, to many people of the past only thought of how they themselves looked, as they wrote their crooked words, the history of the Gipsies as yet to be wrote, we are all apart of this story, from the House to the Tent, from the Tent to the House, from Broomdashers to Hawkers of Carpits, Earthenwear Dealers and Horsemen of Old, big names, small names, dark hair and blue eyes, light hair and dark eyes, highley connected or scrag ends like me, everyone belongs to the great story of the unique people known as the Gipsies of Britain. Thank you again. xxx
-
Hi Michael yes i do have some of the census etc and other records shall I post on this thread or a different one ?
-
Will post what i have saved most is in order :) some may be random
1871*Attercliffe cum Darnall/Christchurch-Yorkshire
William Wilshire 50 B Bineton, Lincolnshire Widower Chairbottomer
-----------------------
1861*Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire
Alfred Heaps abt 1836 Snelston, DerbyshireHead/ Hawker
Ellen Heaps abt 1841 Lincoln, LincolnshireWife
Alfred Heaps abt 1868 Varions, DerbyshireSon
Eliza Heaps abt 1861 Varions, DerbyshireDaughter
Ellen Heaps abt 1841 Lincoln, LincolnshireWife
Emma Heaps abt 1863 Varions, Derbyshire Daughter
Henry Heaps abt 1867 Varions, Derbyshire Son
Jane Heaps abt 1858 Daughter
Mary Ann Heaps abt 1860 Varions, Derbyshire Daughter
Selena Heaps abt 1869 Varions, DerbyshireDaughter
/////////////////////////
Joseph Wilshaw 24 hd b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Jane Wilshaw 26 b b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Mary A Wilshaw 3 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Frederick Wilshaw 1 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
///////
William Holmes 45 hd b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Jane Holmes 29 wife b Barnsley, Yorkshire
Issac Wiltshire 40 lodger b Wombwell, Derbyshire
////////
John Wilshaw 37 hd b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Mary Wilshaw 38 wife b Sheffield, Yorkshire
James Wilshaw 11 son b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Sarah A Wilshaw 8 dau b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Herbert Wilshaw 3 son b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Emily Wilshaw 8 Mo dau b Sheffield, Yorkshire
-
1871*Longdon- Staffordshire(Other hawkers on page including Heaps)
Joseph Wilshaw 35 b Notts Nottinghamshire hawker
Maria Wilshaw 30 b Wath, Yorkshire hawker
Joseph Wilshaw 6
Thomas Wilshaw 4
Fred Wilshaw 1
----------------------------------------------------------------
1881*Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire=Street address:19 Slancer St
Joseph Willshaw 37 hawker
Maria Willshaw 32 hawker b Sheffield
Joseph Willshaw 15
Tom Willshaw 14
Fred Willshaw 9
Tim Willshaw 6
William Willshaw 3
Infant Willshaw
-----------------------------------------------------
1891*
Joseph Welshaw 49 Peddler/Hawker b Ackworth, Yorkshire
Maria Welshaw 42 wife b Sheffield
Jim Welshaw 16
Bill Welshaw 13 All said b Sheffield*
Walter Welshaw 11
Emma Welshaw 6
Henry Welshaw 4
-------------------------------
-
1901: CENSUS* INDEXED AS WILT-SHAW SO DOUBLE BARRELLED!!!
.Nottinghamshire, England Civil parish: Pleasley Ecclesiastical parish: Shirebrook Holy Trinity Town: Shirebrook County/Island: Derbyshire Country:
* Lots there in caravans:+
William Wilt Shaw 21 B Woodsetts, Derbyshire pot hawker
Maria R Wilt Shaw 20 Hul Yorkshire
Rebecca Wilt Shaw 4 Sheffield, Yorkshire
William Wilt Shaw 2 b Notinghamshire
*
Thomas Wilt Shaw 37 b Sheffield, Yorkshire 27 hawker
Margaret Wilt Shaw 20 wife b South Pool, Yorkshire image i think 30?
Emma Willt Shaw 2 months b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Harriett Wilt Shaw 10 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Julia Wilt Shaw 2 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Margaret Wilt Shaw 5 b Nottinghamshire,
Mathilda Wilt Shaw 11 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Thomas Wilt Shaw 7 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
---------------------------------------------
Knight may be related?
Alfred Tyler 35 trav pot higgler b Leics
Lucy Tyler 29 wife b Swadlincote, Derbyshire
*
Walter Knight 33 coal miner b Romsley, Worcestershire
Martha Knight 32 b Brampton, Derbyshire
Ada Knight 2 b Shirebrook, Derbyshire
Leonard Knight 3 months b Shirebrook, Derbyshire
Mary Knight 5 b Brampton, Derbyshire
Robert B Knight 12 b Brampton, Derbyshire
William Knight 8 b Brampton, Derbyshire
**
Joseph Wilt Shaw 56 B Darrington, Yorkshire ( THIS IS HIS DAD?)
Maria H OR k ?.57 wife b Bolsover, Derbyshire
Emma dau 18 BWoodsetts, Derbyshire
Henry 16 SON B Woodsetts, Derbyshire
*
MARRIAGE 1864 ROTHERHAM JOSEPH WILSHAW WED MARIA KNIGHT
---------------------------------------------------------
ARE THESE THE SAME JOSEPH?
1861*
1861*Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire
Joseph Wilshaw 24 hd b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Jane Wilshaw 26 b b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Mary A Wilshaw 3 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Frederick Wilshaw 1 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
///////
William Holmes 45 hd b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Jane Holmes 29 wife b Barnsley, Yorkshire
Issac Wiltshire 40 lodger b Wombwell, Derbyshire
////////
John Wilshaw 37 hd b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Mary Wilshaw 38 wife b Sheffield, Yorkshire
James Wilshaw 11 son b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Sarah A Wilshaw 8 dau b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Herbert Wilshaw 3 son b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Emily Wilshaw 8 Mo dau b Sheffield, Yorkshire
1871* Longdon, Staffordshire (SLEPT IN FIELD IN CARAVANS)
Joseph Wilshaw 35 b Notts, Nottinghamshire Hawker
Maria Wilshaw 30 b Wath, Yorkshire Hawker
Joseph Wilshaw 6 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Thomas Wilshaw 4 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Fred Wilshaw 1b Sheffield, Yorkshire
///////////
Alfred Heaps abt 1836 Snelston, DerbyshireHead/ Hawker
Ellen Heaps abt 1841 Lincoln, LincolnshireWife
Alfred Heaps abt 1868 Varions, DerbyshireSon
Eliza Heaps abt 1861 Varions, DerbyshireDaughter
Ellen Heaps abt 1841 Lincoln, LincolnshireWife
Emma Heaps abt 1863 Varions, Derbyshire Daughter
Henry Heaps abt 1867 Varions, Derbyshire Son
Jane Heaps abt 1858 Daughter
Mary Ann Heaps abt 1860 Varions, Derbyshire Daughter
Selena Heaps abt 1869 Varions, DerbyshireDaughter
///////
David Allen abt 1841 Hepworth Lincolnshire Head Hawker
Elizabeth Allen abt 1863 Sheffield Yorkshire Daughter
Harriett Allen abt 1845 Sheffield Yorkshire Wife
Henry Allen abt 1860 Sheffield Yorkshire Son
/
=============================================
1881*Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire
Joseph Wilshaw abt 1837 Sheffield YorkshireHead Razor hatter?
Jane Wilshaw abt 1836 Sheffield YorkshireWife
Mary A. Wilshaw abt 1858 Sheffield YorkshireDaughter
Charles Wilshaw abt 1875 Sheffield, YorkshireSon
Isaac Wilshaw abt 1866 Sheffield, Yorkshire Son
James Wilshaw abt 1868 Sheffield, Yorkshire Son
Percy Wilshaw abt 1880 Sheffield Yorkshire Grandson
Samuel Wilshaw abt 1873 Sheffield Yorkshire Son
Sarah J. Wilshaw abt 1862 Sheffield Yorkshire Daughter
~~~~~~~~---------
1891*Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire
Joseph Wilshaw 54 b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Jane Wilshaw 56 b Sheffield, Yorkshire wife
Isaac Wilshaw 25 Son
James Wilshaw 23 Son b Sheffield
Samuel Wilshaw 18 Son b Sheffield
Charles Wilshaw 16 Son b Sheffield
Percy Wilshaw 11 g/son b Sheffield, Yorkshire
Fanny Farebrother 15 servant
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1901*Yorkshire.Ecclesall
Joseph Wilshaw 64 RAZOR GRINDERB Sheffield
Mary S Wilshaw 51 WIFE B Sheffield
Arthur C Middleton 20 step son b Liverpool, Lancashire
Percy Wilshaw 21 GRAND/SON B Sheffield
************************************
This is the Percy above I think in 1911 as right age and birth place?
WILSHAW, Samuel Head Married15 years 38 1873 Insurance Agent Sheffield Yorkshire
WILSHAW, Florence Wife Married 36 1875 Sheffield Yorkshire
WILSHAW, Percy Nephew Single 31 1880 Razor Hafter Sheffield Yorkshire
WILSHAW, Joseph Son Single 6 1905 Sheffield Yorkshire
WILSHAW, Reginald Son 4 1907 Sheffield Yorkshire
LEACH, Ivy Guardian Single 8 1903 Sheffield Yorkshire
Registration District:Ecclesall Bierlow Sub District:Sharrow Enumeration District:
Address:18 Salmon Street Sheffield Yorkshire England County:Yorkshire (West riding)
-
Also put where they were together as in related via marriage etc other families /Heaps/Allen and Holmes and other connected families etc .
-
People not in houses*
1861*Pontefract, Yorkshire
William Willshaw abt 1811 Longbillington, Nottinghamshire, Head Tinner & Brazier
Lidia Willshaw abt 1812 Codbrough, Nottinghamshire, Wife
Joseph Willshaw abt 1846 Darrington, Yorkshire Son
Lidia Willshaw abt 1848 Lincoln, Lincolnshire Daughter
Walter Nelson * abt 1829 Scotland Son-in-Law
Lotis Nelson abt 1829 Stowe, Lincolnshire, Daughter
Henry Nelson abt 1853 Wakefield, Yorkshire, Grandson
George Nelson abt 1854 Wakefield, Yorkshire, Grandson
Harriet Nelson abt 1856 Carlton, Yorkshire, Granddaughter
Mary Nelson abt 1858 Pontefract, Yorkshire, Granddaughter
//
William Blewitt abt 1809 widow Stamford, Lincolnshire, Head tinner & Brazier
Sarah Blewitt abt 1837 widow London, Middlesex, Daughter-in-Law
Valuza Blewitt abt 1856 York, Yorkshire, England Granddaughter
Enis Blewitt abt 1860 Hull, Yorkshire, England
//
John Lee abt 1797 Woodbridge, Suffolk, Head
Charlott Lee abt 1791 Woodbridge, Suffolk, Wife
Tenna Lee abt 1834 Livingston, Norfolk, Daughter
Mary Boss abt 1791 Farnham, Suffolk, Widow
John Phillips abt 1832 Thorne, Yorkshire Tinner & Brazier
-
1861**Town: Pontefract (People sleeping in Tents)
County/Island: Yorkshire
William Willshaw 50 hd Tinner and Brazier
Lidia Willshaw 49 wife
Joseph Willshaw 15 son
Lidia Willshaw 13 dau
Walter Nelson 32 son in law born SCOTLAND **
Lotis Nelson 32 dau
Henry Nelson 8 g son
George Nelson 7 g son
Harriet Nelson 5 g/dau
Mary Nelson 3 g/dau
~~~~~~~~-------------------
Charlott Lee 70 /abt 1791 Woodbridge, Suffolk Wife
John Lee 70/ abt 1797 Woodbridge, Suffolk Head Tinner and Brazier
Tenna Lee 27 /abt 1834 Livingston, Norfolk Daughter
~~~~~~~~--------------------
Mary Boss 70 widow b Farnham, Suffolk
John Philips 29 b Thorne, Yorkshire Tinner & Brazier
~~~~~~~~-------------------
William Blewitt 52 Stamford, Lincolnshire Head Tinner & Brazier
Sarah Blewitt 24 London, Middlesex Daughter-in-law
Enis Blewitt 1 Hull, Yorkshire,
Valuza Blewitt 5 Sarah York Yorkshire Granddaughter
~~~~~~~~-------------------
1871*Parish:Doncaster Ecclesiastical parish:St George *:Yorkshire
Gypsies *Camp in Cherry Lane*
Walter Nelson 45 Hawker(Gypsy)
Lettuce Nelson 43
Henry Nelson 17
Harriet Nelson 13
George Nelson 12
Jemima Nelson 10
David Nelson 8
Alexander Nelson 6
Betsey Nelson 2
-----------------------------------------------
1881*Mexborough, Yorkshire
Walter Nelson abt 1826 Durham, Head besom maker
Clar Nelson abt 1828 Thurnsby, Yorkshire, Wife ?why Clar?
Alice Nelson abt 1865 Doncaster, Yorkshire,
Betsy Nelson abt 1870 Eastwood, Yorkshire,
Thomas Nelson abt 1873 Eastwood, Yorkshire, Son
William Nelson abt 1874 Mexbro, Yorkshire, Son
~~~~~~~~-------
1881*Parish: Thorne County/Island: Yorkshire
Alexander Nelson 67 Tin Plate worker born Kilroy, Scotland
~~~~~~~~-----------
1891*Civil Parish: Mexborough
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: Yorkshire
Walter Nelson 66 hd b Carington Lam, Durham, besom maker
Lettie 64 wife
Thomas 17b
Wm Nelson 15 coll lab
-----------------------------------------------------------------
George Nelson 29 b Royston, Yorkshire colliery labourer(caravan in Field)
lavina 27
Thomas 10
Lilly 11
Grtrude Nelson 5
Harriett Nelson 3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Adams 49 pot hawker
Jane Adams 39
George Adams 20
Robert Adams 18
Jane Adams 15
Joseph Adams 2
~~~~~~~~---------
1901*Mexborough St John the Baptist *Yorkshire
George Nelson 45 colliery labourer
Thomas Nelson 17
Gertrude Nelson 15
Harriett Nelson 12
Ephraim Nelson 8
Oscar Nelson 4
George Nelson 1 month
Walter Nelson 80 father bon scotland No occupation
-
1861*Town:Wath upon Dearne:Yorkshire
James Knight 44 b Chesterfield, Derbyshire Earthenware Dealer
Emma Knight 36 b Portsea Hampshire
Harriet Knight 14
Maria Knight 12 dau b Sheffield
Henry Knight 10
Tom Knight 7
Bill Knight 2
--------------------------
Josiah Blewitt 1801 In A Lane, Lincolnshire,Head Scissor Grinder
Sarah Blewitt 1793 Hoyland, Yorkshire Wife
Ann Blewitt 1838 Lincolnshire, Daughter
---------------------------------------------------------
1851*Ashover, Derbyshire
James Holmes 1804 Ashover, Derbyshire, Head
Ann Holmes abt 1832 Ashover, Derbyshire, Daughter
Sarah Holmesabt 1838 Ashover, Derbyshire, Daughter
///
William Knight abt 1805 Beeston, Nottinghamshire, England Head
Harriet Knight abt 1806 b Arnold Nottingham
Ann Knight abt 1837 Arnold, Nottinghamshire, England Daughter
Fanny Knight abt 1840 Wellington, Derbyshire, England Daughter
Henry Knight abt 1845 Wellington, Derbyshire, England Son Ashover,
Maria Knight abt 1847 Wellington, Derbyshire, England Daughter
This is Fannys bap*
FANNY KNIGHT Christening: 16/61839 Arnold, Nottingham Parents: WILLIAM KNIGHT Mother: HARRIET
other baps there include*(Confusing as Arnold down for Harriet and rest Wellington?)
2. JAMES KNIGHT - Christening: 06 MAY 1827 Arnold, Nottingham
3. JOSEPH KNIGHT Gender: Male Christening: 14 FEB 1813 Arnold, Nottingham
4. MARY ANN KNIGHT Is this Maria?)Gender: Female Christening: 07 JUL 1844 Arnold, Nottingham,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1861*Think this is her *
George Mann 40
Ann Mann 34
Charles Mann 13
Harriett Mann 10
John Henry Mann 6
Fanny Mann 4
Elizabeth Mann 9 Mo
Maria Knight 15 boarder b Ashover, Derbyshire
-
Groom's name: John Heaps
Bride's name: Cinementi Boswell
Marriage date: 22 Sep 1828
Marriage place: All Saints, Derby, Derbyshire,
-------------------------------------
Elizabeth Heap-Baptism Date 01 Apr 1801
Baptism Place Snelston, Derbyshire
Mother Sarah Heap
---------------------------------------
-
How do you do that Sue, how.
I always did love you, you know, in the way i love people, i dont love many people in that way, i am not a bad person, your are alright Sue, sometimes i wish i was already dead, that means your a happy person, i will tell you soon of some sad times when you wished you was alive, it is very strange Sue, you are so underrated, the Gipsies of the future will look back on your writings, your on point, you outsmarted the best of them so-called know alls, now you are a Woman. i will talk again.
-
Sue
Also why not this place about Chaplin, i charge you to look for Hawthorne Smith, hes a Wilshers to, i know i just gave it away, the Smiths are Great, you told me about at least ten years ago that the people i talk of could of come out of the Smiths, i know you meant well and who knows, there are lots of Hawthorns, Elliott's, Woodward's, i respect the Smiths, i respect you to Sue, sleep well, you will always be remembered.
-
Dont know about being remembered lol ,You need to write books to be in history lol , you still have away with words:) you must mean this Hawthorn :)
Name: Hawthorn Smith
Registration Date: 1917
Registration district: Southwell
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Re-registration Year: 1917
Mother's Maiden Name:Wilsher
A few Hawthorns about :)
-
Sue
I see you found Percy, i will tell you soon of Percy Wiltshire he was a Rouge for sure, he was a legend in his day, for he never gave ground, another unsung who lays dead in his grave, now i soon will speak of his Name............Percy Wiltshire........ the fighting man of Nottingham.
-
Was Percy in Sheffield before Notts? Yes think i found him in the 1939 register in Sheffield with wife Elizabeth.
-
Sue
Look at the census records you just put on they have a Percy on, i think there are two Percy's on, there maybe several Percy's, i just wish to know does Percy of Nottingham come out of the Sheffield Percy's, most of the Wiltshaws were from the Yorkshire way back at least to the middle 1800s, Rebbecca was born in a yard or field, i think it is known as Owens field.
-
I only ever put what i find in the records and as transcribed we know some said dif names when it suited them but you can normally tell if they are yours,yes I think the Percy in Sheffield must be same Percy ,you have notts and derby and yorkshire
-
No one could out think You Sue, You have just got that IT.... its true You know it to, i dont know why people of the past as in writers started all the rubbish, people are just people, lets talk another day Sue, do you know i thought rockerin cant was words, as in the past there were many words used round the city, unless you were raised with right knowledge everything would get mixed up, you could say rokkerin Romany to, but do you know all the book readers would only say rockering romany, all the old Gipsies new all about cant and Romany, the difference was they new how to separate the words evan thoe they understood them both, all the words i listened to from people when i was young sounded just like one language, how would i know when someone was saying Cant words, then other people used Romany ones, all i new was that it was not English in the modern sense, lots of people now learn from books old words, Gipsy's know straight away evan thoe some people they may know some words but they are pronouncing them wrong, that's how you can tell the real ones, there will not be a single Gipsy man of old who did not understand cant, through their dealings they would know such things, i suppose this is how it was the start of the end for the old true way of talking Romany, this must of happend over a few hundred years, Lee new lots of the old words but he is from very old lines of the Romany family's, they kept it strong, hes what you would call a Romany Gipsy, it is best just to tell the truth.
Good night Sue.
-
Night Michael talk again soon :)
-
Sue
I am looking through all the records that you have just put on,
thank You and take care
michael x
Sue
I was looking at the Percy's you found from Sheffield in those census reports, they may be just local Wilshaws, there are many many people with that name around Yorkshire, this could be one of them below from WW1
SHEFFIELD DAILY TELEGRAPH, FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 17. 1916. A batch of Sheffield's home on a few Day's leave. Photo ..
... home on a few days leave Sheffield, wounded, Private Percy Wilshaw,
Friday 17 November 1916
Sheffield Daily Telegraph
The Percy i was talking about could be this one from Nottingham, he sounds about right and his addresses over his lifetime suit the location, i was just trying to find out who his father was, there is a good chance this is the Percy i was looking for, truthfuly i do not know, he would be born in 1920s, i find him doing quite a bit of petty crime, no sign of nobody else or any kind of occupation that may help, he was a driver, a pitman, a labourer, if you ever find his Father let me know please, i do not think the Wilshaws from Sheffield that you found may be from the Wiltshires, they could be just locals, they could be the right people to, this Percy below could be two, i guess there are always mystries never to be found.
... ALLEGED ROBBERY WITH VIOLENCE Nottm.
Percy Wiltshire, 18
Nottingham Evening Post
Thursday 09 August 1945
-
yes thin there were 2 Percys about same age Mike so will have a look further to see if i can separate the two as so easy to attach the wrong one when similar age and in same pace!:)
-
yes thin there were 2 Percy's about same age Mike so will have a look further to see if i can separate the two as so easy to attach the wrong one when similar age and in same pace!:)
Sue your spelling looks more like mine:) don't call me mike, please call me michael, Sue you sent me a Percy Witshire from about 2008 on the Journey Folki web site, it was not the same as you put on a few posts back, i may have all those posts somewhere:) and all the census reports that you sent me years ago, i have just found hundreds of emails to from all sorts of people regarding several subjects close to heart!:) Sue i really do not mind anything, me and you swapped photo's of our granchildren you remember, and wedding photo's, have you forgot the photos of the Jurassic coast line that you would show me, i never forget a single word, lots of people have wrote to me down the years Sue, i know every part of Britain and have travelled to it to, often i have been down your way it is a beautiful place, just as you described it, i am not long back from Montenegro, i think that's how you spell the name:) they told me their that it means the land of the black mountain, thankyou for the help Sue, i am most obliged, we will have to go for a drink when i am next down your way, it would be my honor.
regards michael x
ps.. It as not been easy for me Sue this last year or so, all my posts first have to be read by a moderator, i have been forbidden from posting for reasons that are unknown to me, in the past my posts have vanished and been moved about, evan some have not made it through, i have stuck in there and tyred to help others and also learn myself the bigger picture of the people we all are trying to research, about the same time as the lady named Skyshot came on talking about the Wiltshires Wilshers Wilshaws i was then allowed to post freely, remember how i used to write to you and i would use the name skyo, now someone says skyshot, do you think it may be a coincidence, i do not know if my posts again will just be stopped from getting through, if you do not hear from me again it is because once again for reasons unknown to me someone will have the power to silence my words, so if these are my last words let you be the person i send them to. I appreciate the times when you helped me.
your pal michael
-
Sorry about spelling and funny as when i put your name I was gonna change it as dident look right and then phone rang and i forgot :) I did notice the name skyshot ,this bard works differently to the old jib board ,it keeps to the format of just research and exchanging records etc not really meant to chit chat on here :)you normally use pm for that ,and you have helped many i would think from all your newspaper records must have taken you ages transcribing :)
-
Hi,
I am one of Henty and esau relatives I believe they were my 4th great grandparents if I'm correct?