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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: Lady Jean on Thursday 23 February 12 17:52 GMT (UK)
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Have dutifully looked through all the message boards and found nothing.
If someone is able to research a marriage certificate for me - it might give some needed information.
This is good solid info from our family bible -
William Hay Marshall born: 27 February 1812 - probably Denny
died: 1 January 1868 - Kelvinhead, Kilsyth
married to:
Jane (Jean) Hay born: 1812 - probably Denny
died: 15 Nov. 1887 - USA
WILLIAM's FATHER
Robert Marshall (Jr) born: ?
died: 18 December 1831 - Denny
married to:
Marey Hay born: 29 November 1773 - Denny
died: 9 August 1814 - Denny
ROBERT's FATHER
Robert Marshal (sr) born: ?
died: 20 January 1832 - Parish of Trelawny Jamaica
Can anyone help??? Please!!!
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Hello Lady Jean - Welcome to Rootschat!!
According to the IGI (Familysearch) William Hay Marshall and Jane Hay were married in Denny on 6th April 1833.
This appears to be an extracted marriage (although could be one of the dates for Publication of the Banns) and lists a Batch Number of M11476-4.
The actual image will be available from Scotland's People, but it's doubtful if there will be much extra information on it.
Anne
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Thank you, Anne!
Hoping to be helpful to other searchers as well.
Yes - I have seen that marriage date - yeah! - but not much other info.
Have tried Scotland's People site and wasted money - can't figure out ??? how to use it properly! :-[
Is there any hope of getting a marriage certificate for William's father, Robert married to Marey Hay? Or is that dated too far back before such records were available?
And btw - two of William's daughters married two Anderson brothers.
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Checked the census fror Denny on FreeCEN and came up with the following:
1841 - at Haggs, Denny, William Marshall, 29, coal miner, wife Jean, 29, also Elisabeth Marshall, 8.
1851 - at Haggs, Denny, William Marshall, 39, collier, wife Jean, 39, children, Mary,7, and Robert,8. All born in Denny.
Family Search shows the marriage mentioned in the earlier post and the birth (8-10-1845) and baptism (8-2-1846) of Robert and the baptism of a daughter, Jean, 19-3-1848.
Graham.
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Family Search also shows Robert Marshall and Mary Hay having the following children:
David, b. 9, bp. 30 Sept 1798
Robert, b. 7 May, bp. 3 June 1804
Mary, b. 1, bp. 28 Sept 1806
John, b. 20 Apr, bp. 1 May 1808
an unnamed son, bp. 23 Apr 1810
Graham.
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Thank you, Graham. That's the family!
I have all the family info from William, Jane (called Jean) & children onward - just not backward!
Your 2nd post - with Robert Marshall & Marey Hay's children -see family bible attached.
Jean
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There is a birth of a Robert Marshall to William Marshall and Margaret Stewart in Kilsyth in 1770, but might not be him. What I would suggest is looking at the baptisms of Robert and Mary's children in the Denny register to see what the entries say. They might include the names of witnesses which could point to relatives. Occasionally the entries give actual relationships. You would want to see the entries anyway as they shoud give a residence and might give an occupation for Robert.
Graham.
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Jean, a long shot, try a search of the National Archives of Scotland.
http://www.nas.gov.uk/onlineCatalogue/
Skoosh.
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Thank you, Skoosh - I will.
Also, thank you Graham. Will look forthwith in the Denny registers ...how do I find them? Is there an internet address or link you could provide?
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Scotland's People is the official site which lets you check indices, then pay (a fairly reasonable sum compared to many others) to see and, if you like, download, the page from the original register. You will find lots of postings about the site. Some people say it is expensive, but they tend to be looking for the post 1855 birth marriage and death certificates and can waste money by paying to see certificates for the wrong person. In your case, you know the parents' names and have dates, so know that what you look at will be relevant. The index for the old parish registers (1500s -1854) gives parish names, dates and parents, so it is easy to search. It only contains what was recorded or has survived. Not everyone's baptism was recorded, so you may well find that some of the names in your Bible are not there.
Graham.
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Hi,i am puzzled because with Mary Marshall born 1806 and married William Walter Fleming,that is correct,but where I am confused is in 1861 Mary is Mary Marshall with two children Matthew and James Fleming and Aunt Agnes Burns Nee Marshall(Agnes is my 4x grandmother who was widow of Thomas Burns a shoemaker. Agnes is Mary's aunt but Agnes father and mother are David and Janet Marshall nee Williamson,i know she had one brother John in 1768 Falkirk Stirlingshire.
David Marshall is a farmer as is recorded on Agnes Death record of 1862 Haggs Stirlingshire.
In 1851 we have Mary and William Walter Fleming's daughter Janet age 13 with my Agnes Burns nee Marshall family,so how can Agnes be recorded as Mary's aunt if Mary is daughter of Robert Marshall 1771,whose father was Robert who died in Jamaica. I am wondering if Robert snr is David Marshall's brother,as their is a record of two brothers Robert and David Marshall born 1737 and 1738 to a William Marshall and Mary Curray in st ninians Scotland,so please can anyone help me work this out. Agnes Marshall was born 1774 Falkirk Stirlingshire died 8 jul 1862 she was a publican,spirit retailer. cheers Karen
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Karen - This is very interesting info and also very confusing. Now the census does say Mary Marshall - her maiden name instead of Fleming. Is that why you think her aunt, Agnes Marshall was not listed as Burns as well? I don't think this Agnes is the Mrs. Burns. I think this is an unmarried Agnes Marshall - brother of Robert Marshall and of different parents from what you have. Have no real way of knowing of course. Have asked my cousin to look at this and see what she thinks ..and will get back to you on our suppositions. Do you have any documentations that would help? Do you have a tree on ancestry.com?
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Thankyou for your reply Lady Jean,i do have a tree on ancestry under Beaver Jacobs family,i also have quite a bit of info I have collected,i have Agnes Burns nee Marshall's death record,she died in 1862 age 89. I did know when they were widowed often they go back to their maiden names,i noticed Mary Fleming nee Marshall did too,but in 1871 Mary was Mary Fleming again.I think she was with her son James Fleming in 1871 as a midwife,i thought I had saved it but havn't,so will find that again.
The other Agnes Marshall the one who didn't marry I found died 1859,before 1861 census,but hadn't saved her as she wasn't connected to me just yet. but I will try and find that again.
I also found both My Agnes and what I think her neice Mary Fleming nee Marshall both had grandchild marrying in 1897,they were Robert H Burns and Agnes Aitken Fleming,so there is a connection again with the two families. Just like the Janet Fleming in 1851 daughter of Will Walter Fleming and Mary Marshall,Janet is with my Agnes Burns nee Marshall family.
I can't wait to hear back from you when you find out a bit more from your cousin. Hope we can solve this one way or another,i just want to have the correct Agnes Marshall.
thankyou again Karen(NZ)
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Hi Lady Jean, i guess this won't help with your search, but just to let you know i think we have a family connection through the Marshalls. Margaret Marshall married into my family,the Sneddons, some time in 1830 or so. I also have connections to Burns and Hay. Haggs/Hollandbush was a small mining village, so most people were probably related to each other in some way.
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Have dutifully looked through all the message boards and found nothing.
If someone is able to research a marriage certificate for me - it might give some needed information.
This is good solid info from our family bible -
William Hay Marshall born: 27 February 1812 - probably Denny
died: 1 January 1868 - Kelvinhead, Kilsyth
married to:
Jane (Jean) Hay born: 1812 - probably Denny
died: 15 Nov. 1887 - USA
WILLIAM's FATHER
Robert Marshall (Jr) born: ?
died: 18 December 1831 - Denny
married to:
Marey Hay born: 29 November 1773 - Denny
died: 9 August 1814 - Denny
ROBERT's FATHER
Robert Marshal (sr) born: ?
died: 20 January 1832 - Parish of Trelawny Jamaica
Can anyone help??? Please!!!
Jean my couisan Recently passed and left an interesting Family tree behind. I believe The marshalls you speak of are the same family. By looking at the comments above not everything matches but all names from robert marshall to the last name Hay however the hay is an Elizabeth married to a James marshall. also last name Collier comes up. much more if you are interested. im very interested and just exploring myself.
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Don't get too excited yet! Some given names are useful for tracing families, but there are several that are so common that they are not all that useful on their own. These include Alexander, James, John and William for males and Ann(e), Elizabeth, Isabel(la), Jean/Jane, Margaret and Mary for females.
The 'Community indexed' IGI lists 40 marriages of a Marshall to a Hay in Scotland.
Note that until the start of statutory civil registration in 1855 there was no such thing as a 'marriage certificate' and that marriage records up to 1854 seldom give the name of the bride's father, let alone that of her mother or the parents of the bridegroom.
James Marshall married Elizabeth Hay in Denny, Stirlingshire on 5 September 1831. The index also lists the name Matthew Hay - which could be one of the rare instances of a marriage record giving the name of the bride's father. The IGI lists two children:
Matthew, baptised in Denny 8 June 1834
David, baptised in Denny 20 December 1843
The 1841 census lists this family at Haggs, Denny
James, 30, Coal miner; Elizabeth, 30; Matthew, 5; Mary, 3; Robert, 1; Elisabeth Wilson, 70 ; all born in Stirlingshire
In 1851 the family were at Backrow, Denny
James, 43, Collier (i.e. his occupation was still coal mining); Elizabeth, 43; Mathew, son, 16, Collier; Mary, 13; Robert, 10; James, 9; David, 7; John, 5; Martha, 2; Elizabeth, 1; all born in Denny
William Hay Marshall married Jean Hay in Denny on 6 April 1833
The IGI lists just three children
Robert, baptised 8 February 1846
Jean, baptised in Denny 19 March 1848
William, baptised in Kilsyth, Stirlingshire 15 July 1853
As already stated, In 1841 they too were in Haggs
William Marshall, 29, Coal miner; Jean, 29; Elisabeth,8; all born in Stirlingshire, plus what looks like three lodgers.
In 1851 they were still in Haggs
William Marshall, 39, Collier; Jean, wife, 39; Mary, daughter, 7; Robert, son, 5; all born in Denny.
So these are two entirely separate couples. The coincidence of address, surname and occupation could indicate that James Marshall and William Marshall are related, but this is not necessarily the case as Marshall is a very common surname. You would need to see the death certificates of both William (who you know died in 1868) and James to check this out.
You can look up the full transcriptions of the census at http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl and you can (and should) view the original documents at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk at modest cost when it comes back online next week. On the same site you can view the original baptism and marriage records (and learn exactly what Elizabeth's marriage record says about Matthew Hay) and the death certificates of William and (assuming he died in Scotland) James. You may find that the baptisms of some of the children listed in the census but not indexed in the IGI are also available at Scotland's People.
You will note that the census confirms the birthplaces of both William Hay Marshall and Jean Hay as Denny.