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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: aug on Monday 05 March 12 10:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi
wonder if someone could help me? My GG-gran is Harriet Gladwin nee' cooper i'm trying to find info on her brother william (Bundle) cooper who married Amy Deacon. I have his birth 1865? Not sure if right i have no death date to him and dates to wife amy. And i'm trying to find all his children and dates.
I have one daughter Elizabeth cooper who married Derby Smith and have children minty,jasper,emily
Love any help?
jew
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What country/city are you referring to?
Was Bundle a nickname or a middle name?
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Hi
Bundle was a nickname.. think he was born croydon surrey..maybe mitcham living in tent
jew
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His parents are Levi cooper b 1827 and Counslatie
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Still trying to narrow it down which should be easy given the unusual names but they might not have been registered.
Minty SMITH - possibilities -
1953 Tonbridge, mother as Smith
1955 Croydon mother as Smith or Eastwood
Jasper - far too many
Will try to continue tomorrow - nearly 1.30am here!
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Hi sandra
ok... Eliza Smith nee' cooper her mother maiden name is Hilton should of said this before
Eliza mother born chittenfold died/ Buried Epson ,1891 Living Bandstead as Travelling Gypsy.
Eliza and husband in a book called Old way and New. Its just her siblings i want to know..
I hear from you 2moro thanks for your time
jew
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Hell sorry her grandmother was a Hilton..
Her mother is Amy Deacon.. Sorry i made a mistake and put Hliton
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Looks like they didn't repsond to the census on most occasions as they are impossible to find.
Let's start with Elizabeth COOPER and Derby SMITH. That way hopefully I can backtrack to find her with her parents and siblings.
No record of a marriage for these 2.
There is a death registered for a Darby SMITH 1966 at Croydon giving him a birth of c1884.
No birth reg found for him at this stage.
Found what seems highly likely to be him with his parents (Alfred and Charlotte) and siblings in the 1901 census at Cuddington, Surrey. His birth is given as 1889 Epsom, so 5 years difference to age at death. There was also an Uncle Harry LEE with them. They were living in a caravan and 2 tents.
I can't find him in 1891 or 1911 so cannot confirm the year and place of birth given in 1901.
Do you have any idea when he is supposed to have married Elizabeth or approximate years and places of birth for their children (Minty, Jasper & Emily as you have quoted)?
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Trawling through the names and finally found William (Bundle) and Amy! Their address was White Hill Down, Effingham, Surrey. The 5 children were Levi (c1892), Rachel (c1897), Unity (c1899) noted as a son but others have this name for girls, Packey (c1907) - others note her as Pashey, Amey (c1908). There are no places of birth given for any of the family.
Levi might be the child registered Apr qtr 1893 Croydon
Rachel - no reg found for Croydon - might be elsewhere
Unity - no reg found
Packey/Pashey - not found
Amey - name far too common to determine
I need to verify some details beofre continuing:
You believe that Elizabeth COOPER (wife of Derby SMITH) was the daughter of William and Amy?
I haven't been able to find any marriage for William and Amy (might not have married in the legal sense) so how did you determine Amy's surname of DEACON?
The Elizabeth COOPER that I found that is supposed to have married Derby SMITH then had daughter Minty around 1911 must have been born around 1891. Does that sound correct?
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Hi sandra
Derby smith married Eliza cooper 1911 shere.. Residence Hatchurst downs
Married in Littie village church.. Eliza b 1890C Walton on the hill merseyside.
childen of theirs jasper smith b 25/6/1921 Reigate D 25/6/2003 His mother Eliza died when he was 6.
Emily smith b 10/5/1927
Levi smith b 1912c
minty 1911 I have no death dates for their kids.
I think derby was born Hatchurst Downs?
His parents Alfred smith and Charlotte Lee.
Eliza mother Amy cooper nee' Deacon have her parents Thomas Deacon b 1848c and Rachel Frankin b 1843
Hope this all helps? I have look later what you found,as i off to work.
jew
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Hi Sanda
I have no marriage for william and amy, In the book that was wrote i found he was with a Amy Deacon they settle around mitcham common surrey. I have some of her sibings.. I found some other children of theirs but no dates of birth for some them,they had 7 children in all Minty,amy,Levy,Jasper,Rachel,Reuben,Emily Then i found unity cooper so their must of been 8? children unity i found married Venus Pidgeley 1919 seven Oaks kent. Hope this all helps?
jew
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Hi sandra
Sorry about this i had Amy surname as Deacon it is Deakin's just to let you know
jew
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Found Amy with her parents and siblings in 1881 as DEEKINS/DEAKINS living in a tent at Cheam, Surrey:
Thomas c1846 Licensed Hawker POB unknown for all except the baby
Rachel c1849
Amy c1866
Rose c1868
Thomas c1870
Abraham c1873
Rachel c1876
Alfred c1878
Un-named Female Infant aged 3 months born Cheam, Surrey
There is a birth reg for Amy DEEKINGS March qtr 1866 at Croydon which could be your Amy.
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Hi Sanda
I have no marriage for william and amy, In the book that was wrote i found he was with a Amy Deacon they settle around mitcham common surrey. I have some of her sibings.. I found some other children of theirs but no dates of birth for some them,they had 7 children in all Minty,amy,Levy,Jasper,Rachel,Reuben,Emily Then i found unity cooper so their must of been 8? children unity i found married Venus Pidgeley 1919 seven Oaks kent. Hope this all helps?
jew
Now I'm completely confused! I had also found Unity marying Venus PIDGELEY but no mention of some of the other children you have now named. You also haven't included Elizabeth (wife of Derby) in the list of children. So was she really the daughter of William/Bundle and Amy?
This book you have referred to, I have seen it mentioned on some other forums that are specifically for people interested in their gypsy heritage. Has the author given any proof of these births/marriages/unions or is it just hearsay? Without genuine proof via birth certificates etc it can be almost impossible to prove anything. Also if a mother died leaving young children behind, it's possible these children may have been cared for by other family members and grew up in the belief that these people were their real parents.
I'm not sure if I can help any further as there is so much confusion surrounding this whole group of people and so much re-use of names that it is extremely difficult to figure out who belongs to who. Also not having marriages and births registered makes it even worse.
I would suggest that you Google some of the more unusual names (the various Minty's for example) and you will come across many sites specific to your needs (Romany heritage etc) and might even find some cousins that have had more success.
Best of luck with your ongoing search.
Sandra
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Hi sandra
thank-you for your help.. Eliza cooper was daughter of william cooper and Amy deakins. In book their is a marriage cert of Eliza and derby smith i try and send you. with father name on cert william cooper.
Thanks again.
jew
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I've been looking into this for a week now...with a combination of harvesting information from threads on this board and other traveller message boards and some detective work in the BMD index, I have gathered a lot of information. However, there are still a lot of missing pieces to the puzzle which I'd appreciate some help with.
First, a few errors/comments:
Hi Sanda
I have no marriage for william and amy, In the book that was wrote i found he was with a Amy Deacon they settle around mitcham common surrey. I have some of her sibings.. I found some other children of theirs but no dates of birth for some them,they had 7 children in all Minty,amy,Levy,Jasper,Rachel,Reuben,Emily Then i found unity cooper so their must of been 8? children unity i found married Venus Pidgeley 1919 seven Oaks kent. Hope this all helps?
jew
I think you're confusing generations here.
William and Amy had the following children: Amy, Patience, Unity, Rachel, Levi, Elizabeth.
The final child, Elizabeth married Darby Smith and had the children you mention.
Found Amy with her parents and siblings in 1881 as DEEKINS/DEAKINS living in a tent at Cheam, Surrey:
...
Un-named Female Infant aged 3 months born Cheam, Surrey
...
The unnamed female would turn out to be Rebecca Deakins.
Now I'm completely confused! I had also found Unity marying Venus PIDGELEY but no mention of some of the other children you have now named. You also haven't included Elizabeth (wife of Derby) in the list of children. So was she really the daughter of William/Bundle and Amy?
You are correct. See my comments above.
If anyone else is researching this family and wants to swap info, please let me know.
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Hi
Lets throw a stone in the pond and see where the ripples land
William Cooper was my mum's Unca Bundle
Mum's cousin Unity married Venus (uncle Veenie) Pidgely who travelled with Bottons big fair with a big refreshment stall and a chipper my mum used to work there
Cousin Levi was my age and we were close
The Pidgely family lived in Walton on Thames and ran a business
there
Another of mums cousins was Aunt Patience (pashey) who married Barney Jewel and lived in a house in Mitcham
I could go on about Derby Smith and the "Sperit" but that's for another day
Coopers pup
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Hello Amy Deacons was my great aunt she was me g grandfather leonards sister I am doing a family tree fer me mother and could do with some help......I need help with amys sisters Rachel,rose and brothers Thomas and Abraham any help would be much appreciated...6
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Hi MD1972
I'm doing a tree on genes so myself need lots of info on Amy and Husband William cooper. Williams sister Harriet Gladwin nee' cooper is my 2x grandmother..
I have the siblings you wrote on here. But I have one other sister of Amy if it is her sister?
Britannia known as (polly) married Leonard Dixie The son of sarah ann Eastwood and Edward Dixie.
I have Amys parents Thomas and Rachel She Formley Franklin. And Rachels mother Lucy was born Middlesex abt 1826... That's all I have so far of Amy... I'm also looking for photos of Amy and William..
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My G granparents were Amy and Bundle Cooper and I know She was a Deacons If you know anything about the Coopers and Deacons are now or any photos would be very grateful...
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I don't have any photos of Amy and William cooper. I have their children on my tree but! No photos. Photos I have his of Williams sister Harriet Gladwin nee' Cooper grave spot. And her husband grave which Is still their in mitcham. Harriet buried Queens rd Croydon. And photo of her hubby and daughter at a wedding of his granddaughter. Love to have a photo of Harriet and William and Amy.. Plus I have a map of harriets father Levi cooper grave area in Queens. And photo of her mothers grave in Epsom...