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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: JuneNZ on Thursday 08 March 12 07:24 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find the burial place of Brice Webb, buried November 1884 and his wife Elizabeth who appears to have passed away between the 1871-1881 census. They appear to have spent most of their lives in the Civil Parish of Bedminster.
Have had no luck with Arnos Vale, Canford Crematorium that administers Avonview and Greenbank cemeteries. Sent a message to the Parish Office of the Diocese that looks after the annexe cemetery of St Marys Redcliffe 23 Feb but have not had a reply. Can anyone suggest where to search next?
Brice Webb's last place of residence was Colston Almshouse and I think that he was a non conformist religion.
Any help to solve this puzzle would be appreciated. June
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On an OS map of Bedminster, a cemetery is marked at Malago Vale (right-hand edge, close to bottom) http://www1.somerset.gov.uk/archives/Maps/OS62htm/0606.htm
Arno's Vale is the obvious choice, but if they belonged to a particular church, they may have been buried there?
Bristol & Avon FHS has a list of burial sites:
http://www.bafhs.org.uk/burial-data
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Thank you for the link to the historical map. I had not realised that coal was a big industry in the area. I cannot find any results for the Malago Vale Cemetery on a google search.
I have a copy of his death certificate however it does not indicate where he may be buried. On the top of the certificate it advises that Death in the Sub-district of Saint Augustine. His grand-daughter Ada Thomas who registered the death lived in St Michael, Bristol.
I will keep on searching.
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The place of death would point to a north Bristol burial, although you can never rule out Arnos Vale - I believe they had two registers for Anglicans & Noncoms - the cemetery is certainly divided - did you check both registers?
If he was a nonconformist it would also rule out anglican churchyard burials - it might be worth trying to track down which denomination we're looking for. It may be worth contacting the Bristol RO - they would also have a list of which churches had their own burial registers
Steve
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"Thank you for the link to the historical map. I had not realised that coal was a big industry in the area. I cannot find any results for the Malago Vale Cemetery on a google search.
I have a copy of his death certificate however it does not indicate where he may be buried. On the top of the certificate it advises that Death in the Sub-district of Saint Augustine. His grand-daughter Ada Thomas who registered the death lived in St Michael, Bristol."
St Augustines is very central to Bristol, as is St Michaels Hill. Both within walking distance of the Bristol City Centre.
HTH.
Judy ( ex Bristolian)
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Thank you for your reply Judy, I appreciate you taking the time. It appears that the family were buried at St Johns which has been demolished and the graveyard turned into a park.
I have asked the Bristol Records office for copies of the details from the parish register.
The death certificate for Elizabeth Webb, married to Brice Webb, arrived. DOD 31/01/1873 she was apparently 76 at death. My next search is to find the death details for Ann Webb (nee Day) who appears to have been married to an older Brice Webb. My ancestor came to New Zealand as Emily Day and her sister was married as Eliza Day. The family appear in the census records with the surname Webb, Mill Lane, Bedminster, which leads to the assumption that Elizabeth and Brice may not have been married.
Kind regards, June
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Hi June NZ
Are you sure that St John's has been demolished and the graveyard made into a park? When I worked in Bristol centre I remember this church (St John the Baptist or St John on the wall) and had the pleasure of visiting it. The church and the graveyard still exist. Please see the following link
http://www.about-bristol.co.uk/chu-07.asp
This St John's is about 200 yards from St Augustine
I hope this helps, Peewee (another former Bristolian)
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I think the St Johns in question is the old parish church of Bedminster - not the one in central Bristol
Steve
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thanks steve I misunderstood. The following website has some interesting information and photos
ww.churchcrawler.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bedmjb.htm
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Most of my paternal line ancestors were from the Bedminster/Redcliffe Hill area and I myself have not been able to trace one single grave primarily because some of the older churches have been demolished, including St Johns mentioned above. Most frustrating.
Judy
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Most churchyards in Bristol were closed by the 1848 Act, or at least had restrictions placed on them.
So many Bristolians (and Bedminster!) were buried in places such as Arno's Vale.
And, don't forget that Bedminster used to be a part of Somerset, rather than being part of Bristol!
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Nothing like a challenge! Bedminster now part of Bristol did not used to be.. Now situated in Somerset when it used to Gloucestershire..
It is an interesting lesson on geography for me. Elizabeth Webb is detailed through the census records Ancestry extractions as having been born at Broughton Rolf, Somerset England in the 1851 records, Brampton Ralf, Somerset in the 1861 record, and in the 1871 hand written page it appears to be Brompton Ralph Devon, extracted as Broughton Ralph Devon England on Ancestry. There are times I wonder whether I am tracking the same woman.
On The Geneologist site Brice Webb is extracted as Alice Webb although Brice is written as plain as the nose on your face...
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The River Avon used to be the border!
Bedminster was on the south bank, so was in Somerset - indeed Somerset County Cricket Club used to play some home matches in Brislington!
Redcliff Hill is north of the river, so in Bristol, Gloucestershire!
I used to live in Bedminster, and my daughters went to St Mary Redcliff Infant School!
Just to confuse matters even further, Bristol was a City & County for over 600 years ::)
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Hi JuneNZ
I live in Bedminster, and St Johns had another graveyard as well as the churchyard. Sadly though for you it's all grassed over, but you might be interested to know that it's recently been planted with lots of fruit trees! I walk through there every day. I could take a photo if you like?
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Thank you for your very kind offer. I wonder what they did with the headstones on this cemetery. Sad to think that they may also be underground. A nice outcome for a cemetery to be a pleasant orchard. Regards, June
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Hi June. I got you a couple of photos. As I suspected I think they might've laid the gravestones down and grassed over them as you can see from the first photo. I can only find one like that tho. There's only one monument left and that's been stuck in the corner . No idea why that particular one was saved, maybe it was the message at the bottom and the sad tale of the two young people lost at sea.
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and this is how the graveyard looks now
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Thank you for the photos, it looks like a peaceful place. Could you advise me the name of the street that the park is on. Perhaps the Church (denomination Anglican?) that owned the St Johns church may have historical photos or the Bristol Archives. Regards, June
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Hi June
if you go onto google maps and google Malago vale trading estate, you'll see the piece of land that was the burial ground by the side of that. It's diamond shaped with a path running diagonally through it. It lies between Cotswold Road and St Johns Lane.
If you then look immediately north over the top of the trading estate on the other side of the railway tracks, you'll see a piece of green land bounded by St Johns Road and Church Lane, that's where St Johns Church and churchyard was until it was demolished.
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my name is An dries and i am a Great Grandchild of Fred Matthews Saddler Redcliffe Hill, i note he married a Clutterbuck well known in Bristol, i thought they had 5 sons Reginald Arthur (Dickie my Grandfather) he married Lydian Maud Stokes who's father was a dairyman Langton St Bedminster, left a sizeable inheritance. Harold took over the Saddlery business, married mable 2 children Fred and a daughter, business now Matthews Roofing, Jim he had a son and daughter i think the son was called Jim who built a successful Garage business i think he had a child with tragic illness and he sold everything, daughter from memory very attractive, Jim Snr worked for Sidney Seward main Ford Dealer Portwall Lane, Sid who married May/Mae one of the daughters, Sid & May had 2 sons Alan and Clive who worked with Sid, they fell out, Alan married his cousin Faye my Mother Peggy Eileen's youngest sister, my mothers 1st marriage was to Henry ? Paine/Payne who supplied the cigarette rolling machines for W D Wills he came from Yorkshire, Joan my mothers middle sister married a Lewis who was a wholesale tobacconist Bedminster, became Lewis Meeson chain of Tobacconists and Newsagents, my mother and Joan both Divorced but remarried, i remember meeting Gladys who worked as house cleaner for May, i understood there were 5 brothers all of whom fought in 1st world war and returned home, don't know the names of other 2, my mother was a favourite grandchild of Fred and told many stories including go to the Wills Est for Sunday tea, he was i believe a Alderman of Bristol, there was a parrot in the shop who would call him when a customer came into shop, i have seen the Harness they made for Georges Brewery, gather they also made for Wills, Baldwins and other main Bristol businesses.I have a 2nd cousin Paul who i am in contact with who now lives in France, his father was also Fred and i knew him as an uncle but who his Father was i do not know. Divorce, Adultery, illegitimacy, silver paper fraud and Black Market quite common in the past. Fred seems to be a common family name i wouldn't discount the Mines they stretched from one end of Bristol to the other, have never heard whether Fred had any siblings, i.e did Jacob, (Jewish name??) have any other children
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I am trying to find the burial place of Brice Webb, buried November 1884 and his wife Elizabeth who appears to have passed away between the 1871-1881 census. They appear to have spent most of their lives in the Civil Parish of Bedminster.
Have had no luck with Arnos Vale, Canford Crematorium that administers Avonview and Greenbank cemeteries.
a lot of the Arnos books were lost dew to the pore maintenance and up keep prior to the compulsory perchuse by Bristol city councle when the then owner let the place fall in to disrepair there for it is posable the information has been lost
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There are several Brice Webbs in Bristol in the 16 and 1700's. They were Quakers. The Quakers had their own burial pit - Redcliffe Pit. I think it is opposite St Mary Redcliffe, now all grassed over of course. The Internet has photos.
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Thank you Mary. We walked past there when we visited Bristol in 1916! I will go to the Internet and search further. Quakers. That may explain why a daughter of the Webb house married into a family that from family lore Plymouth Brethren. She was Emily Day who lived in Mill Lane Bedminster with Elizabeth and a Brice Webb (whose mother was Ann Day) Mysteries all around. My assumption was that he used his Mothers surname to differentiate himself from his father who was also a cabinetmaker. We do hold copies of two letters to his Grandson in New Zealand signed off Your loving Grandfather Brice Webb. However the two girls both put Brice Day as their fathers name on their marriage certificates! Did you find reading material that referred to Quakers?
Kind regards, June
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2016! It was too early in the morning!
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Hi June
I've been looking at your Webb family as I am currently researching Brice Webbs in Bristol back in the 16 and 1700s and I thought I would see if there is any connection.
I am a bit confused though about your post as follows -
"That may explain why a daughter of the Webb house married into a family that from family lore Plymouth Brethren. She was Emily Day who lived in Mill Lane Bedminster with Elizabeth and a Brice Webb (whose mother was Ann Day) Mysteries all around. My assumption was that he used his Mothers surname to differentiate himself from his father who was also a cabinetmaker. "
I have checked the censuses but cannot find an Emily Day living with Elizabeth and Brice. (The Brice Webb I mean here is the one dob 1809 whose parents were Brice Webb and Ann Day) Their daughter Emily Webb was with them in 1841 and 1851 in Mill Street/Lane. I couldn't find that Brice had changed his name to Day.
As I said I have been researching your Brice Webb to see if he is connected to mine several generations back. How far back have you gone? At this stage I have his grandfather and also his Grandmother Sarah Phillips whose two brothers whose baptisms are in the Quaker records.
Regarding Quaker information if you Google Quakers in Bristol you should find several sites of interest.
Regards
Mary
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My research trail is already posted on one of the forums, you may find it if you Google search the parties, however in brief:
- My 2x GGrandmother was Emily Day. Her father is recorded on her Death Certificate as being Bryce Day, and her mother Elizabeth Day.
- She emigrated from England to Nelson,NZ and then travelled on to Lyttelton Canterbury to marry Charles Lucas. Her name Emily Day, aged 22, Spinster married 14 March 1857 at the Temporary Church, Lyttelton, Canterbury NZ. Intentions to marry Register: 7 March 1857 states that she had been there 1 week, aged 22.
The shipping documents record: C Lucas 20 pounds for E.Lucas and E.Day on the vessel Masterman. Vessel was John Masterman that arrived in Nelson on February 8th 1857.
Nelson Immigration: Register of Applications 1855-1862-1872 records No 309, Day, Emily (adult) Address, Mill Lane, Bedminster, Bristol. Sureties C.Lucas Senr & C. Lucas Jnr (Uncle and nephew)
-This address gave me a lead to search the Census records for Mill Lane, Bedminster. 1841 had a Elizabeth and Brice Webb and children Emily and Eliosa. 1851 had Emily and Eliza. Hmm
- Obtained the Marriage record for Eliza - father stated as Brice Day. Married to Edward Thomas, Cordwainer, Widower.
-1871 Census record for Brice Webb and Elizabeth also includes Edward W Thomas Grandson. Brice Webb 1809's Death Certificate has informant Ada Thomas, Granddaughter.. both the names of two of Eliza's children.
2 letters letter held by a 3rd cousin from Brice Webb to his Grandson Alfred, son of Emily Day (Lucas), are very devout. Signed off your affectionate G Father, Brice Webb.
I have other documents relating to Brice Webb's parents and have made a mission of having as many of my relatives DNA tested with Ancestry as I can in the hope that an identifiable Webb/Day or Thomas match may come up.
I have sent you a personal message with my email address and I am happy to provide documentation of the research.
It would be nice to have help in solving this mystery. Are you a blood descendant of the Webb family?
Kind regards, June
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Hi June
That is certainly a strange situation with Emily Day/Webb. Maybe she was 'eloping' so gave a false name!! Sometimes we have mysteries in our family (I have one) that are never resolved unfortunately and it is so frustrating.
I had a Brice Webb dob 1716 of Bristol as my 3rd cousin. Recently I also connected the Webb family of Alderley/Cromhall Glos. to another branch of my family. In reviewing my Bristol lot I realised I had made an error because I had wrongly given the father of Brice Webb of Bristol as Brice Webb of Cromhall which was incorrect, so it was back to the drawing board!
At the moment I am trying to sort all this out and I will then email you. Thanks for the address. It will be interesting to see if we are connected. I am just so surprised there are so many Brice Webbs down through several generations.
Regards
Mary