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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: Berni on Friday 09 March 12 14:13 GMT (UK)
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I am really struggling finding information regarding my paternal Gr Grandfather
Michael B o'Shea born 10 Sep 1866 in Emlagh cahercivenn
married Margaret Anne O'Reilly 8 Apr 1883 St Fininan's Chapel Caherciveen
I have his occupation as merchant tailor and general draper
I have been unable to find a death for him or any other information
any advice or suggestions appreciated please
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You would need a bit more detail to narrow down a search for possible deaths... have you found him on the 1901 and/or 1911 census returns ? do you think he stayed in Caherciveen ?
Shane
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O'Shea / Shea is quite a common name in Kerry - there's a number of possible deaths in Caherciveen district - see :
Michael O'Shea death, year of birth 1860s (https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AMichael~%20%2Bsurname%3AO%27shea~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1862-1870~%20%2Bdeath_place%3ACahersiveen%20%2Bdeath_year%3A1884-1950~&collection_id=1408347)
You may be able to exclude a few of those..
Dont know if you've already checked the Kerry burials ...worth a look :
http://kerrylaburials.ie/en/Index.aspx
Shane
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based on birth of their childrens Michael was alive up to at least 1893, and still living in Caherciveen.
I think the marriage was in Dromod parish, which is the one south of Caherciveen. Presumably Margaret's 'home' parish..since she was living in Scariff townland.
Marriage of Michael O'Shea and Margaret O'Reilly (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/0b2db40544200)
Shane
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found St Finan's Chapel on the OSI maps - it's close to Waterville..
see : St Finan's RC, Dromod parish (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,450493,568603,7,9)
(now listed as St. Finian's)
This 25" map is dated 1896
Shane
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Hi Shane
yes this is their marriage
They had 6 children and the youngest being my grandfather
Christopher Stephen O'Shea born 23 Dec 1893
Grandfather got married 1917 in Granard Co Longford
from his birth until his marriage I can't find the family
none of them appear in either census that I can find
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Do you have the other children's names?
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names and baptism dates for the children I located...all Caherciveen RC parish
Bartholomew Patrick O'Shea - 27 February 1884
Mary Catherine O'Shea - 10 February 1885
John Valentine O'Shea - 14 February 1887
Michael Joseph O'Shea - 14 January 1889
Margaret Ann O'Shea - 12 May 1890
Christopher Stephen O'Shea - 24 December 1893
The town of Caherciveen is listed as part of Caher DED on the 1901 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Caher/) and 1911 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Caher/) return
Shane
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Thanks Shane,
I wanted to check a family I had found - Shea family 1901 (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Caher/Newmarket_Street/1403731/)
I think it is a strong possibility:
Mary Catherine = Mary K ; John and Michael; Christopher Stephen= Stephen.
heywood
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that looks a good possibility ... so where's Michael ?
There is one O'Shea master tailor that I saw in the town - but his name was Patrick..he's single and too young - see : link (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Caher/Chapel_Street/1403558/)
Shane
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and he's not married - too young to be Michael and too old to be Bartholomew Patrick :-\
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I am really struggling finding information regarding my paternal Gr Grandfather
Michael B o'Shea born 10 Sep 1866 in Emlagh cahercivenn
Berni,
do you have this birth certificate?
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Hi Shane
here are the 6 children:
Bartholomew Patrick born 25 Feb 1884
Mary Catherine born 9 Feb 1885
John Valentine born 13 Feb 1887
Michael Joseph born 13 Jan 1889
Margaret Anne born 12 May 1890
Christopher Stephen born 23 Dec 1893
I don't have Michael B 's birth cert
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This looks like Michael's baptism on IrishGenealogy
Baptism of Michael Shea - 16 September 1866 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/75fb810203844)
Address : Capp.
Parents : Bartholomew Shea & Hanora Casey
Dromod RC parish
and the extracted birth record is at : link (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FPYY-J5S)
Gives date of birth as 10 Sep 1866, and 'Emlagh District' as place of birth. These locations are often sub-districts rather than actual townlands. The page reference is 048, which you can use to match up with an Index record to order a research cert. This will show more details such as place of birth and father's occupation...
just wondering - if you dont have a cert how do you know for sure that this is the correct birth ?
Shane
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Hi Shane
I have a copy of 1911 census
for Bartholomew and Honoria Shea
they have 2 children Michael 17 years and Catherine 13 years
I think he is related to my Michael B
I think this is the Michael you found the birth for
Bartholomew and Honora King got married on the same page as
Michael B and Margaret O'Reilly
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here's that family on the 1911 census :
Shea household - 1911 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Caher/High_Street/102123)
I'm not sure I get what you mean by 'I think he is an uncle to my Michael B' - do you mean Bartholomew ?
Shane
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Hi Shane
I have a copy of 1911 census
for Bartholomew and Honoria Shea
they have 2 children Michael 17 years and Catherine 13 years
I think he is related to my Michael B
I think this is the Michael you found the birth for
Bartholomew and Honora King got married on the same page as
Michael B and Margaret O'Reilly
Michael aged 17 yrs would be born abt 1894. Shane found one born 1866.
Amongst the possible spouses on the same page as Michael B and Margaret, there is a Bartholomew O' Shea and Honora King. They may not be spouses to each other, but they are possible candidates for the family in 1911.
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That family are here in 1901 Batt Shea 1901 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Caher/High_Street/1403637/)
It is quite possible that Bartholomew and Michael are brothers, rather than uncle and nephew
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Berni,
what do you think of that family in 1901 as possibly yours?
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Heywood
So far your link for 1901 census is the closest match
Although Margaret Anne is not listed and she would be abt 11 years old
Including my grandad I have managed to trace 4 of the siblings to living relatives.
Michael, John and Margaret all went to USA
So far not followed on the lives of Bartholomew or Mary
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a possible marriage for that Bartholomew and Hanoria - link (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ce9caa0524549)
Caherciveen RC parish, bride's surname is Lynch, groom's father's name is Bartholomew
Shane
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a possible marriage for that Bartholomew and Hanoria - link (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ce9caa0524549)
Caherciveen RC parish, bride's surname is Lynch, groom's father's name is Bartholomew
Shane
Yes, that's possibly the one from the census and M B O'Shea is the witness. :D
There are Bartholomew Sheas in abundance :)
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Far too many Bartholomews :-\
Do you think the marriage link for Bartholomew could be a brother for Michael B?
Michael's father was Bartholomew Shea
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Was Christopher a tailor too ?
Did he marry a Mary Caddon ?
Did he die in Manchester in 1963 ?
If so there are other people doing his tree but they have no parents filled in ?
Do you have his marriage cert from 1917 Granard as I can't seem to find a match !
What spelling of his name did he marry under ?
I'm just hoping that you are working with the correct names for his parents and siblings.
Tara
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That's what I said Bernie and Michael looks to be the witness (about them being brothers)
have you looked at the 1901 census for Margaret and children?
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Heywood
the 1901 census you found is the closest however Margaret is missing
she would have been about 11
Margaret, John and Michael I have traced to living relatives they all went to US at different times
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Hi Tara
Yes Christopher was a tailor
He married Mary Cadden
I am aware of the public tree you are referring to
they have all the family photo's :-[
But I'm working alone on my research, as no one seems to have any information
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Hi Bernie,
So just to clarify, did you get the marriage cert ?
Are you sure you have the correct birth cert ?
Where did you get the names of 'Christopher's' siblings ?
I'm just concerned that you may be working on family stories as opposed to fact.
Is there a reason why the other family have no parents in for Christopher, if they are the ones with all the pictures surely they know who Christopher's parents are !
Sorry to bang on, I just want to make sure you get the right tree done :)
Tara
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Tara
My father was the eldest child of Christopher
I have Christopher Stephens Birth cert and baptism also his death cert
The 'other family' who are doing a tree is the son of my eldest aunts daughter
They have listed my grandmothers maiden name wrong
I also have a letter from the church Christopher and his siblings were baptised in
listing their D.O.B's and their parents names
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Hi Bernie,
Well, I've tracked down their marriage (which you don't mention having)
Name: Jane Cadden
Date of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: Granard
Volume: 3
Page: 119
Christopher O' Shea same details
This is Mary Jane
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Longford/Granard_Urban__in_26_files_/Moxham_Street/1550134/
I wanted to see what name he used in his later years to see if it made it easier to track him on the 1911 census
He wasn't in the military or RIC by any chance to explain his absence from the 1911 census ?
GOOD GOD I WAS JUST ABOUT TO POST THIS AND THEN I THINK I FOUDN HIM IN 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Stradbally/Gowlane/105319/
Tara
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Tara
I've had problems accessing my tree this evening
Yes I've just found the marriage listed under her middle name
I am thrilled you found grandad in 1911 he was known to people as Christie :D
Thank you so much for all your hard work. You are a star !!
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Ok
So now I need to find the death of Michael B
perhaps on the 1901 he is working away given he is a merchant tailor
I also need to find where daughter Margaret Anne born 1890 is in this census
I need to find out if Bartholomew is a brother of Michael B
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Thanks for finding him Tara. I had tried various searches and am so glad you got him! I can have a rest now. :)
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Thank you all for all your help I am truly grateful
for all your advice and time
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Hey Heywood,
Good all round teamwork :)
I will have another look for the rest of the family tomorrow Bernie !
By the way you have said that some of Christy's siblings emmigrated - was that before or after 1911 ?
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Hi Tara
They all emigrated before 1911
John V 1907
Margaret A 1910
Michael J 1910
I have details of my grandfather from his marriage onwards
and thanks to you have him in 1911
looking at the 1901 census
Margaret Shea is head of household although stating she's married
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I think Shane mentioned this chap earlier BUT in 1911 this Patrick O'Shea is living at 32 Newmarket Street and in 1901 what we think is 'your' O'Shea family are living at 31 Newmarket Street - too much of a coincidence surely, both master tailors, brother of Michael B ???
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Caher/West_New_Street/102211/
I don't know whether this is another total coincidence but look at who is living at no 31 in 1911 (a few discrepencies tho)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Caher/New_Market_Street/102173/
No joy with Margaret tho, even with every crazy spelling I could think of - but I'm sure given time she'll show up !
Maybe, she was taken on a business trip with her father ??
Tara
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I too wondered that Tara- both Margaret and father missing so perhaps together. I have tried Maggie/Anne/Annie but to no avail.
Berni,
this doesn't really matter, I know, but I have looked on Ellis Island for those emigrants and can't match them. There are people of similar names but from different families. :-\
I was wondering if they emigrated to the same place and people and Michael snr may have also visited?
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Yes Heywood,
I was hoping she might show up with either set of grandparents - I tried all of Ireland putting in birth place as Kerry to narrow down the search but still nothing.
Bernie - if I was you I would try the English 1901 census next - HA I have this funny vision in my head of Michael B going to England on business and Margaret going with him (crazier has happened).
I know your Grandad Christopher ended up in Manchester - was there family there who maybe Michael B and Margaret visited in 1901 ?
Also missing though is Bartholomew Patrick b 1884 - did he die young or did he emmigrate before 1901 ???
Tara
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Hi Tara and Heywood
All I have for Bartholomew Patrick is his birth 25 Feb 1884
I'm thinking with all the Barthomew's in the family if he was known as Patrick
Tara I will look at the census links you posted
I have an aunt called Margaret but she is known to the family as Peggy
Perhaps Margaret Anne was known as Peggy too, I will certainly check England census
for Michael B and Margaret Anne
My grandparents ended up in Manchester because Gran had family living there
My dad who was 89 when he passed only ever mentioned Uncle Michael, so think if there were
O'Shea's in Manchester he would have mentioned them.
Also apart from birth I can't find info for Mary Catherine born 9 Feb 1885, Michael B had a sister Catherine
who he wrote to in US in 1887 referring to her as Kate, perhaps this Catherine was known by this name too.
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As I said before, I can't see those emigrations on Ellis site. Perhaps you found them somewhere else?
Did they all go to the same place/relatives?
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Hi Heywood
John Valentine arrived in New York 17 May 1907 aboard SS Carmania
He went to New York to carry on his work with the Commercial Cable Company
Michael Joseph arrived in Boston 9 Jun 1910 he gives aunt Kate for his address
ship name Cymric
Margaret Anne was travelling on the same ship with her brother Michael Joseph
So sorry but until now I didn't even realise they were travelling together :-[
Interestingly I have just found a Miss Margaret O'Shea arriving in London 17 Jun 1902
from New York aboard the Minnehaha (could this be Margaret who is missing from 1901 census?)
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That's why I can't see them on Ellis site ::)
I was trying to see if there were any other sightings of the family going to the same place/person.
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Those ship records for Maggie and Michael state that their next of kin was their uncle Bart O' Shea High Street Caherciveen.
Tara
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Caher/High_Street/102123/
Him, I presume !
Tara
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Oh, and they also state that it was an O' Sullivan relation that they were going to.
Tara
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Tara
this would suggest that both parents had passed by 1910
The relation should be Kate Sullivan (O'Shea) married Patrick J Sullivan
yes the census link for Bartholomew Shea must be a brother of Michael B
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He' s the Bart we had before. That narrows Margaret's death 1901-1910
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Yes he must be the same Bart, Heywood
still hunting for deaths of Margaret and Michael B :-\
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We are assuming that all was 'well' and that the parents died within that time period but they may have been elsewhere and the children gave Uncle Bart as next of kin for that reason. Sadly, we just don't know.
Using the approximate year of birth we have here, there are these deaths - none within the right time: Michael O'Shea (https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3Amichael%20%2Bsurname%3Ao'shea%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1864-1868~%20%2Bdeath_place%3Akerry&collection_id=1408347)
There are others for Michael Shea but the nearest is 1902 in Caherciveen.
Sorry-- just noticed that Shane posted these earlier.
There are two for Margaret O'Shea - 1945 and 1952 :-\
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Just for information - there is an M O'S in the census for Ballydribben, Killarney which was the Asylum. He is married and a tailor but is 56 yrs. I have had a try to check to see if the age is mistranscribed but there are so many records, I didn't succeed.
I doubt that it would be him.
Have you been in contact with the other people who have a family tree that has been mentioned. Do they have any ideas or family stories/records re Michael and Margaret?
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Hi Heywood
Given that John V left in 1907 and Margaret and Michael left 1910
and it looks like my grandfather was a servant and tailor with another family in 1911
that either both parents had passed or at least their mother had passed.
at least with all your help I know Michael B had a brother Bartholomew :)
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Hi all
Would like your opinions on this please
I have just come across a death for Margaret O'Reilly
Sep 1926
Vol 4 Pg 189
Scariff Co Clare
is it possible that my Gr Gran returned to her birthplace and took her maiden name back?
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Sorry Bernie,
I very much doubt it :(
Anyway I thought it was decided that she has passed between 1901 & 1911 ??
Tara
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Hi Tara
I haven't been able to find her death.
I emailed the RC church in Caherciveen and they have replied saying they have no records for Michael B O'Shea. Given that 4 of their children (that I have been able to trace) were no longer in hometown in 1911, I assumed bioth parents must have died. Perhaps if I locate Michael B in the 1901 census it may give me some clues on where he died (unless he was away on business)
My father was born in 1919 and he never talked about his paternal grandparents, he only told me where his father was born. I have been in contact with John Valentines descendant and he says he never spoke about his parents either....very odd !!