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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: Ruskie on Monday 12 March 12 05:40 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for some births, deaths and marriages for a family I have found in the 1841 and 1851 censuses, but I can't seem to find any of them on Scotland's People. I would be grateful for some help with this.
Details from Ancestry's transcriptions are:
1841
Pathfoot of Blackcraig
Minnigaff
William Lamont age 68 b 1773 Kirkcudbrightshire labourer
Grace Lamont age 60 b 1781 Kirkcudbrightshire
1851
Challoch Croft
Blackcraig
Minnigaff
William Lamont 70 b 1781 Minnifgaff occupation Carter
Grace 67 b 1784 Minnigaff sister to William
Elizabeth McGoffog 14 b 1837 Minnigaff grandaughter
Agnes McGoffog 12 b 1839 Minnigaff grandaughter
I wasn't happy with the girls McGoffog transcription so I viewed the census on SP and the surname is quite clearly written as McGoffog. Elizabeth is a seamstress and Agnes is a scholar.
I am attempting to find a connection with this Lamont family and another Lamont family also in Blackcraig, so I was hoping to find some births deaths or marriages to see parent's names etc., and I would like to know who the grandaughter's parents are? I can't see them in the 1861 census. That surname is a problem for any marriage lookups too. :-\
For reference, the following are the Lamonts I am researching and I am wondering if or how they connect to the above family:
(I am not requesting details of these Lamonts at the moment as I already have quite a lot of information)
1841
Blackcraig
Minnigaff
William Lamond 33 b 1808 Kirkcudbrightshire ag lab
Margaret 25 b 1816 Kirkcudbrightshire
Jean 6 b 1835 do
Peter 4 b 1837 do
1851
Blackcraig
William Lamont 44 b 1807 Minnigaff labourer
Margt 40 b 1811 Glenluce
Jane 16 b 1835
Peter 14
Elizth 9
Lateshia 5
Wm 3
Jannet Polock 80 b 1771 mother pauper
Tateshea Blain (Polock) 43 b 1808 pauper
I know that the above places are all fairly close to eachother.
Thanks for any help with this. :)
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By chance when researching someone else, I came across the surname Guffog in a parish register, so this may be something to consider for the Lamont grandaughter's surname.
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Hi Ruskie, you wrote of your interest in Lamont families in Minnigaff area:
1851
Blackcraig
William Lamont 44 b 1807 Minnigaff labourer
Margt 40 b 1811 Glenluce
Jane 16 b 1835
Peter 14
Elizth 9
Lateshia 5
Wm 3
Jannet Polock 80 b 1771 mother pauper
Tateshea Blain (Polock) 43 b 1808 pauper
Here is an MI from Minnigaff with Lamont and Blain family names listed:
Erected by William LAMONT
In memory of his father William LAMONT who died 30th May 1874 aged 62 years,
also his mother Margaret BLAIN who died 30th July 1864 aged 60 years,
also his wife Martha BLAIN who died 6th Dec 1876 aged 27 years,
also his son Peter who died 12th Dec 1876 aged 2 ˝ years,
also his daughter Margaret who died 12th Jany 1877 aged 9 months,
also Thomas BAILLIE who died 3rd Dec 1937 aged 67 years.
Any good, do the names fit anywhere?
Sy
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I'm wondering if the surname should read McGuffey - have found a family in 1841 at Path House, Minnigaff who on one site are transcribed as Griffie and on another Guffie whom I can't find in 1851 but there are a number of McGuffie and McGuffey in Minnigaff in 1851.
John Guffie 30 Labourer
Jean Guffie 25
James Guffie 6
Elizabeth Guffie 4
Agnes Guffie 2
As you can see, the ages of Elizabeth and Agnes Guffie fit exactly with your 2 girls with William Lamont in 1851 hence my thoughts that McGoffog in 1851 should read McGuffey.
Annette
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Thank you Annette, it certainly is a possibility for the mystery grandaughters. I will do some more digging.
Sy, I don't believe what you have just posted!!!!!!!!! :o
And you have just answered SO many of the questions I've been puzzling over for years. This is the family I have been looking for!!!!! ;D
Do you know how I would go about getting a photo of the gravestone? Which churchyard are they buried in? Would there be further information on the stone? I would like to double check the year of Margaret Blain's death. I thought it might be 1874 rather than 1864.
You have made my day week year!!! Thank you!!!! :-*
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Hi Ruskie,
Sy, I don't believe what you have just posted!!!!!!!!! :o
And you have just answered SO many of the questions I've been puzzling over for years. This is the family I have been looking for!!!!! ;D
Do you know how I would go about getting a photo of the gravestone? Which churchyard are they buried in? Would there be further information on the stone? I would like to double check the year of Margaret Blain's death. I thought it might be 1874 rather than 1864.
You have made my day week year!!! Thank you!!!! :-*
Nice to know that brickwalls can sometimes be pushed over
:) Sy
I have access to the MI booklets published by DGFHS. Minnigaff was published in 2008 from a survey by a local church heritage group.
There was only the one LAMONT inscription listed.
You ask about photographs. Some 12 years ago I visited Minnigaff kirkyard and took some general photographs,
but I don’t have the one you want.
You can see my photographs at:
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dfsgal/Minnigaff/index.htm
You may be interested in this old McGUFFOG memorial, also listed for Minnigaff.
Note the McGuffie spelling variation.
[Pathhead mines refer to Blackcraig industrial villiage].
Erected by John McGUFFOG at Pathhead Mines.
Here is interred the body of Janet WYLIE his spouse who died July 19 1783 aged 50 years
also Andrew McGUFFIE our son who died March 1st 1758
and Janet McGUFFOG our daughter who died August 6th 1782
also William McCHESNEY son to Alex. McCHESNEY at Pathhead mines and grandson of the above who died Sept. 17 1776 aged 5 years
Penninghame graveyard in Newtown Stewart is the next nearest graveyard to Minnigaff
Here is an MIs listing BLAIN and POLLOCK families.
Erected by Thomas HANNAH
In Memory of
His son Thomas, who died in infancy
And of his wife Agnes BLAIN, who died 22nd August 1838 aged 73 years
Also his grandson William HANNAH, who died at Blackcraig 27th June 1901 aged 59 years
Also his daughter Sarah HANNAH, wife of Charles POLLOCK, who died at Blackcraig 10th Nov 1902 aged 30 years
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Familysearch shows William Lamond bp.27/5/1806 Minnigaff, son of William Lamond and Jennie Pay - I wonder whether his father died and mother remarried to a Pollock.
Annette
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Thank you again Sy, and thank you for the McGuffog information. I'm sure the families must be connected as my Lamonts also live around Blackcraig.
I am still over the moon with that Lamont MI. I'll have a look at your photographs shortly.
Annette, that baptism from Familysearch - is is submitted or extracted? I know that the parents of my William Lamont (who married Margaret Blain) were William and Janet Pollock. On his d/c his mother is Janet Pollock not Jennie Pay. :-\ I'm not sure what would have been written in the case of a remarriage ...
I know there were a lot of Lamonts in the area so maybe it's a different family.
I'll have a closer look at that baptism though, so thank you for finding it. I suppose it may also an error in the parish records. I know that did happen, and I sometimes see corrections, names crossed out etc -
Definitely worth chasing up. :)
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Hi Ruskie
It is an extracted record and I have viewed the original baptism on SP - May 27 1806, Willm. Lamond and Jenny Pay had a natural child - Willm. Lamond.
'Pay' in Scotland doesn't seem to be a valid surname as far as I can see. I searched through Minnigaff baptisms 1770-1780 and the nearest name I could find to anything remotely like Pay was a Janet Poag bp.31/12/1770, d. of Patrick Poag and Elizabeth Cowan.
I'm guessing since Janet Pollock was 80 in 1851 that she probably died before 1855 when you could have had a death certificate to assist in the search.
Annette
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Thanks again Annette. Janet Pollock is a bit of a mystery woman - I have found no birth, marriage or death for her, but she appears on the 1841 and 51 censuses, and is named as mother to William bc 1812.
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This morning I located these two old photographs in the DGFHS Research Centre archives.
They may be of general interest.
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Thanks Sy! They really help imagine what it must have been like for those living there. It looks lovely - very idyllic, though I'm sure the villagers didn't see it that way at the time. I'm going to have a look at google maps in case some of the houses still survive, though in a different form. Blackcraig looks to have been quite a small village so there may be some survivors.
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The thatched cottages look idyllic but anything I've read about the lead miners' lives in Dumfriesshire and KIrkcudbridgeshire describes a hard, dangerous and unhealthy life.
Here are two photos taken in June 2000.
The original Blackcraig village is long gone. The hamlet you now see by that name is relocated at the bottom of the hill just off the main route through DG on the way to Stranraer.
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THanks for the photos. :)I think these are the cottages I looked at via google maps. I'll have a look at old maps to see the location of the old Blackcraig and compare with google maps. I know what you say about the thatched cottages - I'm sure it must have been a cold damp existence for anyone living in them back in the 1700's and 1800's. (but they do look nice ;))
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Oh, Sy, sorry I nearly forgot - would you be kind enough to recheck that Minnigaff MI for my Lamonts pleas?. I would like to confirm Margaret's year of death is 1874 not 1864. Thank you. :)
Poor William, in a matter of a few months he had lost his wife, son and daughter. Although William is not my direct line, I couldn't resist getting the death certificates of all of those mentioned on the MI - His wife, son and daughter died from variants of TB. :(
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Would you happen to know exactly where the old Blackcraig hamlet was located?
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.....would you be kind enough to recheck that Minnigaff MI for my Lamonts pleas?. I would like to confirm Margaret's year of death is 1874 not 1864. ...
The dates as per the DGFHS booklet are recorded as 1874 for William and 1864 for Margaret.
That may be a transcription error by the transcribers but short of contacting the Minnigaff Heritage group who did the survey I can't verify the dates.
You say they died of variants of TB. Interesting ? If the family were actually involved in the processing of the galena ore from Blackcraig mines their deaths may in fact have been related to lead poisoning. Many a mining family of Wanlockhead and Woodend, the two main lead mines in Dumfriesshire, suffered from lead poisoning.
As for the location of the original village -- it and the mines are today forested over. The land in that area is part of a large Forestry Commission enterprise.
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Thank you once again. Interesting about possible lead poisoning - as far as I know, this generation were involved in forestry related occupations, but I suppose we don't know what kind of exposure they may have had to lead in their day to day lives. I'm going to try to chase up some information about this. :)
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... Interesting about possible lead poisoning - as far as I know, this generation were involved in forestry related occupations, but I suppose we don't know what kind of exposure they may have had to lead in their day to day lives. I'm going to try to chase up some information about this. :)
This may be of interest:
Working in forestry fits the post lead mining industrial scene of this area.
As I mentioned, much of the Blackcraig and neighbouring low hills are heavily forested.
There would probably have been a fair amount of lead processing slag to be cleared before planting started.
Here is something I trawled from the Internet some time back when looking for detail of the lives of Wanlockhead lead miners in Dumfriesshire.
Source: www.peaklandheritage.org.uk/redirect.asp?peakkey=20300321
"Lead miners spent their working lives in cramped passages with poor ventilation and only candles for lighting. Daniel Defoe described a miner as a “subterranean creature ... lean as a skeleton, pale as a dead corpse, his flesh lank ... and something of the colour of lead itself.”
The greatest risk to a lead miner’s health was the belland.
Its proper name is plumbism and means lead poisoning.
This is a description of the dreaded illness:
“A continual Asthma or difficulty of Breathing seizes the Patient, with a dejection of Appetite, his Complexion turns pale and yellowish; these are attended with a dry cough and hoarseness; swelling of the joints and limbs ensue, which are rendered useless...”
TB variant ! -- quite nasty anyway you describe it -- what do you think ?
Sy
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The causes of death for William's wife and children are:
Martha (aged 26) - Phthisis Pulmonalis
Peter (aged 3) -Tabers Mesentierican - tuberculosis of lymph glands in stomach usually from drinking milk of infected cows
Margaret (9 months) - Consumption
(so unsure if any/all of these relate to lead :-\)
His father William died from injuries received in an accident.
His mother died from 'right hemiplegia with apoplexia' so she appears to have had a stroke - also on the cert as causes of death are bedsores and insanity. Whether the insanity was due to lead poisioning or the stroke, I'm not sure. I am in the process of trying to find out more about this.
Interesting to learn about clearing the land of slag before planting the trees. The father William was a labourer/ag lab on a couple of censuses, so possible he was working in areas contaminated with lead. On other documents he is a wood forester.
Going back a generation, HIS father (also William) was a lead miner. I have no information about him, I haven't been able to find his death so don't know what he died from, but he appears to have died before 1841.
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I would just like to add to this post in case anyone in the future comes across it while researching this Lamont family.
I have obtained some information about Margaret (Blain) Lamont who died in the Southern Counties Lunatic Asylum on 30th July 1874. Anyone who is interested is welcome to contact me.
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I just started working on my Family tree and came upon this forum for my Lamont's...thank you all for so much information!! I would love to know more about Margaret (Blain) Lamont and the Lunatic Asylum..thanks again for all your hard work!
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Hello BarlissFamily. Welcome to rootschat and my Lamont thread! :)
The Lamonts are my husband's ancestors, so you and he must be distant cousins. His line is through William and Margaret's son Peter b 1838 in Minnigaff.
May I ask how you are connected to this family?
I am a bit rusty on the Lamonts as I haven't worked on them for some time, but I will dig up all my notes and get back to you later. :)
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My line is through Peter b 1838 as well...from what I have is Peter had a son Thomas(1859)...Thomas had a son Thomas (1897)...Thomas had a daughter Alexia (Lamont)1924..and Alexia had Carol (my mother) 1943...Im new to all this so pls bare with me....I would LOVE anything you have on Margaret Blain in the asylum...or anything else I might have wrong here...thanks so much for your time and help!
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Hi again. Yes, I have your Thomas on my tree (but born 1858 rather than 1859 which I probably estimated from his age on the census). My husband's line is through Thomas's sister Margaret b 1862. She married Thomas Wright from Cheshire and they lived in Liverpool.
Although I do have your Thomas I do not have any descendants for him (my tree is incomplete).
After you have made three posts the Personal Messaging system is enabled and we can exchange information that way.
I have to pop out in a minute but will get back to this later. :)
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Well this should be #3..I look forward to hearing from you!!
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Hi Ruskie, you wrote of your interest in Lamont families in Minnigaff area:
1851
Blackcraig
William Lamont 44 b 1807 Minnigaff labourer
Margt 40 b 1811 Glenluce
Jane 16 b 1835
Peter 14
Elizth 9
Lateshia 5
Wm 3
Jannet Polock 80 b 1771 mother pauper
Tateshea Blain (Polock) 43 b 1808 pauper
Here is an MI from Minnigaff with Lamont and Blain family names listed:
Erected by William LAMONT
In memory of his father William LAMONT who died 30th May 1874 aged 62 years,
also his mother Margaret BLAIN who died 30th July 1864 aged 60 years,
also his wife Martha BLAIN who died 6th Dec 1876 aged 27 years,
also his son Peter who died 12th Dec 1876 aged 2 ˝ years,
also his daughter Margaret who died 12th Jany 1877 aged 9 months,
also Thomas BAILLIE who died 3rd Dec 1937 aged 67 years.
Any good, do the names fit anywhere?
Sy
Hi all
I have in my tree a Janet Lamont (born c1872?) daughter of William Lamont (ploughman) and Martha Blaen (deceased) who married David Kelly Galloway at Glenshalloch in 1905. She is also buried at Minnigaff with her husband as I found her headstone when I visited a few years ago.
David Galloway was my G-G-uncle. I am not looking for any info on them, just thought people might be interested in the next generation of Lamonts.
Kirsty
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Hi Kirsty,
Just to make sure I have this right .... was your Janet b 1872 the sister of Peter b 1874 and Margaret b 1876, both who died young and are mentioned on the MI at Minnigaff?
If so, can I ask why you do not have an exact date of birth for her? :-\
Added:
I just checked Familysearch and they have her birth as 18 Jan 1873 Minnigaff.
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I have a note that William married Sarah after Martha died in 1876. I have them in the 1881 and 1891 censuses, but I don't have mention of a child called Janet b 1873, though they have a son called Peter. :-\
Is this the family of your Janet?
Do you have Janet in the censuses?
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Just to add in case anyone else comes across this thread in the future ... sadly the Thomas b 1859 that BarlessFamily has in her tree does not appear to be related to this branch of Lamonts.
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Hi Kirsty,
Just to make sure I have this right .... was your Janet b 1872 the sister of Peter b 1874 and Margaret b 1876, both who died young and are mentioned on the MI at Minnigaff?
If so, can I ask why you do not have an exact date of birth for her? :-\
Added:
I just checked Familysearch and they have her birth as 18 Jan 1873 Minnigaff.
I only found out about Janet from the headstone and then her marriage certificate. I estimated her birth year based on her age at marriage (she was 32) and on the headstone. Witnesses at the marriage were Lilias Blaen and Murray Cullen.
I do not have any census records for her. I have not done any further research into Janet's family as it is not my direct line. It is one a in a long list of things to do when I have spare time!
I thought that given the location and the parent's names matching there was a good chance that she belonged to the Lamont family that you were researching but don't have any further info to add just now I'm afraid. I do have a photo of the headstone somewhere but it eludes me at present.
Kirsty