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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Dorset => Topic started by: B.E. on Tuesday 13 March 12 19:25 GMT (UK)
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It's not directly a genealogy question, but it's associated with somebody working on their family tree. The family in question has known links with Beaminster, Loders and Shipton Gorge, but the photo may not be in any of those places. Enlarge it a little to see 'County Police' above the door on the left.
Anybody know (or think they know) where it might be?
We don't have a date either. The owner thought 1890s. I'm wondering if it might be Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee?
* Moderator comment: image cropped to remove white space/scanner lid *
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Hi B.E. :)
Beautiful photo - I have moved it to the Deciphering and Recognition Board where it might receive more attention.
I think the date is about 20 years later than the owner's guess. I would put this around 1910. It's a pity the townsfolk didn't write the event on their big banner! It could be any celebration really. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that it's for the coronation of George V, which was in June 1911.
Cheers
Prue
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Prue .... there is some VERY feint lettering towards the right hand end of the banner ... only I dont know how to enhance it ... but someone will !
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Gave it a try Lydart, but can't see anything :-\
The only thing that makes me slightly hesitant about the coronation idea is that there are no Union Jacks or English flags flying in that bunting. Might not matter, though.
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Are you sure it is a banner?? :-\
- it looks rather rigid and the foliage at either end looks more like climbers . :-\ Wisteria or something like that.
I don't know - almost like an entrance to something! Odd place for an entrance, but . . . . .
Wiggy :)
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There's triangular bunting under it ...
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Looking at the policeman his helmet is rather a unique shape with the ridge half way down. I have looked but cannot find any reference to any force using this type of helmet. If it can be identified it may provide a location for the picture. I will keep looking.
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You're right Wiggy, it's a plank rather than a banner.
Brianz, here's the policeman's mugshot in case it helps :)
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Thanks for moving me to a better place - though I was hoping to attract the Dorset experts rather than the photo decipherers!
I attach another photo - definitely of Beaminster, apparently 1897. The decorations do look to be the same style as my original. What are your reasons for thinking it's later? Fashions?
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What's the Queen's Constitution? Haven't heard of that one?
You are right the decorations do look similar and the writing seems to b across a beam - with placed poles and greenery on either side.
Those big hats in the first picture make it later than 1897 though don't they? :-\ Apart from anything else.
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It says "Queen and Constitution" Wiggy ...
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When I looked at the photo without seeing any posts my initial reaction was 1890's
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1897 (second photo) would be Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee
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Hi all....I wouldn't say 1890s but I don't think it's as late as 1910 as I'd expect bigger hats. I'm also not seeing the characteristic pigeon-fronted blouse style of the Edwardian age. So my guess would be very early 1900s.
The old biddies at the right are 1890s, but an older style is often seen on older ladies.
Cheers,
China
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As far as the date is concerned, please note that we think the location might be somewhere in deeply rural West Dorset, where people may not have been bang up to date in the fashion stakes!
However, the main reason for originally posting the photo was to get the PLACE, not the date. While moving the topic to this board has engendered some interesting general discussion, I don't seem to be getting anywhere nearer the real objective. [Prue, is there any way I can persuade you to move the piccie back to the Dorset board where I might stand more chance of finding a local rootschatter who can say "Yes, that's my village"?]
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1897 (second photo) would be Queen Victoria's Golden DiamondJubilee
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Hi B.E.,
Have you contacted Dorset History Centre in Dorchester to ask if they have similar photos in their archives?
http://www.dorsetforyou.com/dorsethistorycentre
Nanny Jan
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Ooops, sorry B.E.
:-[ :-[ :-[
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In that case you shouldn't ask "when" the photo was taken in the thread title.
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Think it might say Queen and Constitution.
Google says this has been used as a pub name.
vv.
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Chinakay, my original post on the Dorset page just asked where - it was Prue who renamed it!
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Looking at the policeman's unform ....... it does seem a little different but definitely of British origin.
I wonder if it might be a colony of the time ..... say Malta or Gibraltar or some other place where the Brits have trod?
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Well, it never occurred to me that it might be on foreign soil. I thought it was quintessentially English, even though it may not actually be in Dorset.
Do they have 'County Police' in Gibraltar and Malta?
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Not one of the Channel Islands by any chance is it? During at least part of the 19th century they were regarded as part of Hampshire I think, but were they all?
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I wondered about that but the helmet is the wrong shape for the Channel Islands. It also appears to be the wrong shape for Bermuda, Bahamas, Ireland or the Isle of Man. I think if we could identify the helmet it would be a great help, it is certainly unique.
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To the rhs of the policemans head is a sign on the wall which seems to read Royal ?????? can anyone make it out?
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If you think it's Dorset..........not a very clear photo though...
http://www.plodit.com/buy-bobbies-on-the-beat-150-years-of-the-dorset-po--9781904349457.html
Nanny Jan
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A book about Police on plodit.com? You couldn't make it up!
The copper on the photo looks to me to have pretty much the same uniform as the one on the website.
I think brianz is right about the writing on the wall - odd though that it should be so indistinct. Some sort of weatherworn chiselling, maybe? The "Royal" bit seems to appear rather more by instinct than close analysis; by the same token, I'm half-seeing the lower word beginning with 'B', but I certainly wouldn't swear on it. It doesn't look much like a "Royal Bank" - or a royal anything for that matter!
The quest continues!
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Hi BE
My nearest connection with Dorset is that some of my in-law ancestors came from there and my cousin once lived there :-X However, what I've been doing in my spare minutes is to take a stroll around the the three places you mentioned -Beaminster, Loders and Shipton Gorge - on Google maps Street view. I think that Beaminster looks the most promising - I couldn't get up one of the streets that seemed the best match. I wonder if Francis Frith might have some photos too.
Also, I'd suggest that it was possibly the Coronation of Edward VII - August 1902.
gnu
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The policeman seems to have some sort of emblem on his lower sleeve ....... can this be enhanced somehow?
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gnu, I live in Beaminster, and I'm still unsure! :-\
The attached photo, taken during Victoria's Diamond Jubilee celebrations in 1897 and looking down the hill in the opposite direction (so the police station would be on the right) suggests that the current buildings housing the police station were already in place by that time. And although the road narrows, I don't think it's narrow enough to be the site of the original photo.
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BE,
The Staples part of my family were from not far away, some were born in and around Beaminster, (though my immediate relatives had been in South Wales for 10 years in 1897) so I love that photo. Thanks for sharing it.
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chrish,
There's actually a Staple(s) involved in the story behind the original photograph: Jane STAPLE who married James Cox GALE in 1850.
That said, virtually very other family around these parts (Beaminster, Stoke Abbott, Netherbury, Broadwindsor) was once a Staple(s)!!
Which strand is yours?
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A further thought (Heaven's that's 2!!!) Had the decorations started to be taken down which could account for the differences i.e. no writing in the banner. A further point, prior to 1948 there were very many police forces, and some quite small towns had their own police force. Was the officer in the strange helmet drafted in for crowd control from say Portland?
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RedRoger,
Thanks for your further thoughts...
#1. Not sure why they'd be taking piccies after the event.
#2. Beaminster had its own policemen - Superintendent FREEMAN and Constable JAMES were recorded on the 1891 census as being in residence at the Police Station. I can't imagine crowd control problems in Beaminster - ever! But then we don't actually know where the piccie was taken. Dorset County Police Force appears to have been formed in 1855.
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I've just done a quick google looking for the helmet. I found Police History Society. Thoiugh they have pictures of many different helmets, this was not amongst the collection, but a copy of the picture to them might elict the information.
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chrish,
There's actually a Staple(s) involved in the story behind the original photograph: Jane STAPLE who married James Cox GALE in 1850.
That said, virtually very other family around these parts (Beaminster, Stoke Abbott, Netherbury, Broadwindsor) was once a Staple(s)!!
Which strand is yours?
Staple(s) of Stoke Abbot. The only Jane Staple I know of was 1783 - 1851. But, as you say about Dorset, that is not to say that were not distantly related!
As an after thought I will search James cox Gale just for fun and the result is.........................no result. But there is an Elizabeth Gale 1808 - 91 born in Beaminster! Who, as Elizabeth Watkins, was claimed to be the last living eye witness of Waterloo. Assuming my facts are correct. Her first husband was William Crabb.
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JC Gale was a b*gg*r to trace!
b.Uploders 1817 (Loders OPC) to John & Diana (nee Lilly). Don't know what happened to Mum, but Dad remarried to Sarah (nee Bugler) in 1838.
1841 census: Higher Buckham, Beaminster. He's plain ol' James Gale (20). HO 107/280 F7P7
1850: m.Jane Staple, but transcribed as John Cox Gale (Beaminster OPC)
1861 census: East Street, Beaminster. He's now James C Gale (44). RG9/1365 P29
I did some work recently on George STAPLES b.1806 Stoke Abbott. He proved a challenge too!
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JC Gale was a b*gg*r to trace!
b.Uploders 1817 (Loders OPC) to John & Diana (nee Lilly). Don't know what happened to Mum, but Dad remarried to Sarah (nee Bugler) in 1838.
1841 census: Higher Buckham, Beaminster. He's plain ol' James Gale (20). HO 107/280 F7P7
1850: m.Jane Staple, but transcribed as John Cox Gale (Beaminster OPC)
1861 census: East Street, Beaminster. He's now James C Gale (44). RG9/1365 P29
I did some work recently on George STAPLES b.1806 Stoke Abbott. He proved a challenge too!
I have a 2 George Staple/s. 1862-1947, my g-grandfather and enigmatic singular George Staple 1806 - ? of Stoke Abbot/Abbas. I have not done much on him I freely admit, I think he is on one of the offshoot twigs. Will have to look closer at him.
Chris
PS This thread has gone a bit off the original track, hasn't it?
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Indeed it has. And I still don't know where the original photo was taken!
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Have you contacted the Police History Society yet?
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I have now! I'll report back.
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Here's a page or two regarding police helmets;
http://www.trooperhats.co.uk/index.html
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Hello BE et al.
as the owner of the mystery photo
(and descendant of Beaminster Gales and Staples !)
can I just say thanks for all the interest so far
amazing !
By the way I have sent an email to the Dorset Publishing Company
in the hope of contacting Maurice and Melvin Hann authors of
'Policing Victorian Dorset’ and ‘Bobbies on the Beat’ in the hope that they
as historians of Dorset Police might have an idea of where the police station in question is.
will let you know how that goes
Thanks again
Babs
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Hi Babs,
are you related to the Staples that B.E. and I were woffling about earlier?
Chris.
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I wonder if I should be getting commission from the Salvation Army here??
Chrish53, babs2,
Unless I've missed something I suspect you might have to go back some way to establish a link between your Staple(s) strands.
I think Jane Staple was the daughter of Thomas Staple (b.1792 Winsham), whereas George Staple was the son of Thomas Stapel [sic] (b.1779 Stoke Abbott).
[No news from the Police History Society yet other than a question about whether there's any writing on the photo or mount - I've said that there isn't.]
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Photo was taken at Whitchurch Canonicorum near Bridport. The building behind was once the village workhouse. Obviously taken before the war memorial was erected.