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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: jsm25 on Thursday 15 March 12 13:45 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to identify a coat of arms which belong to the Bell family. We know a Henry Bell (1731 – 1816) who lived at Portington Hall, Nr Eastrington, East Yorkshire used the arms on his house and other members of the family have it on their headstones.
Does anyone know how to write a formal description for the arms, and how you go about making a correct identification?
Is it possible to find out about the history of the family from the coat of arms?
John
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This doesn't show in my 1902 edition of Armorial Families.
There are a number of lines of enquiry:
The grant of Arms is to a person, not a family, and is passed down the male line by primogeniture. In England and Wales this is controlled by the College of Arms, who will search for you - at a price! http://college-of-arms.gov.uk/ My experiencehere was that we have alleged family crested items - no Grant was ever issued and my g-g-g-grandfather seems to have suddenly invented the device with no authority. It's possible to get Arms granted for yourself, again at a price....
You can get hold of copies of Burke's Peerage, Burke's Knightage and Baronetage, and Burke's Landed Gentry in a major library, or online for old editions, and follow up that way. Burke, as I understand it, was given the genealogies by the families themselves and there was no formal checking, and I have found some quite entertaining fiction in at least one Burke genealogy.
Might be worth trying (I have no local knowledge, and I don't know whether you can visit) the local library which could have a Local Studies section with informantion. A family which used a coat of arms would have had influence locally and left documentary traces. Try also the County Record Office on the same lines.
They might have been connected with one or more Manors - you can trace where those documents are via the Manorial Documents Register at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/mdr/
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There are a number of coats of arms belonging to Bell families that use a hawk as their crest but interestingly I have only found one, the Berks and Bucks family where the wings are extended. In all cases they have bells on their ankles. I can't quite see from your picture whether this is true in your case.
Can you let us know what the motto under the shield says as again that is not very clear? I will have go at producing the blazon (proper description) for the shield when I have a little more time if no-one does it in the mean time.
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The blazon (written description) of the arms would be:
Gules, a chevron Ermine between three bells [sometimes, church bells] Or.
(So the arms are clearly "canting" arms; that is, the arms are a pun on the surname.)
The blazon for the crest could be blazoned equally well several ways, but all would come close to:
Atop a mount Vert a hawk rising [wings elevated and addorsed] Or charged [on the wings] with a chevron couped Gules.
The closest coat of arms in Papworth's Ordinary of British Armorials is for Bell (Sunderland, co. Durham), with Sable, a chevron ermine between three church bells argent, the differences being the colours of the field and of the bells. And Burkes' General Armory notes the crest for this Bell as being A hawk close proper beaked and belled or, also different than the one you are looking to identify.
None of the other Bell's listed in Burke's General Armory come as close.
In Crozier's General Armory, subtitled "A Registry of American Families Entitled to Coat Armor," there is a listing for a William Bell of Massachusetts (1737), from Scotland, whose arms are blazoned as Azure, a chevron ermine, between three bells or, with the crest of A falcon, wings expanded, ermine. So the arms are identical except for the field colour (blue here, instead of red), and the falcon crest is a different colour and lacks the couped chevron but is otherwise very similar.
I hope that this is helpful to you.
David
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I wonder whether the hawk (or falcon) is supposed to be gold or in its natural colour. All of the crests that I found describe it as a hawk propr. billed and belled that is in its natural colouring. However I would agree that in the picture it appears to be the same colour as the bells which would be gold.
It is however obvious from the fact that the wreath is coloured incorrectly that the picture could have other errors.
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Thank you for you your replays so far I have tried to look it up but did not fully understand the descriptions.
I have attached the coat of arms from a different member of the family (I only have a scan of this) and this is very similar to the ones on the headstones.
I photographed the colour coat of arms from some distance and then have zoom in so the motto at the bottom is not legible.
I don’t know if this helps but the oldest family member we know of is Thomas Bell b1690 we then have tree Henry Bells, a Henry Wade Bell and then Arthur Bell b1860 d1946 and he used the coat of arms on his headstone.
Any more thoughts greatly appreciated
John
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My other thought is that the colour way not be correct as the house has had a number of owners and they may have just painted it what they thought look good!
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My other thought is that the colour way not be correct as the house has had a number of owners and they may have just painted it what they thought look good!
That is certainly a possibility; if the photograph of the carved version is "hatched" correctly for heraldic colours, the field is black, the chevron ermine, and the bells are white! That makes a huge difference in trying to track it down. Indeed, this revised blazon would match the arms (but not the crest) of the Sunderland Bell arms found in Burke's that I quoted earlier.
David
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Thank you all for your assistance it’s a great help and its interesting to get the correct colours. ;)
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Hi
The coat of arms with three bell is common in the Scottish borders mainly Dumfriesshire. The Bells are well known in the disputed lands around Canonbie, Middlebie etc.
You mentioned an Arthur Bell mid 1800s. My family tree has traditionally named the oldest son Arthur and we can go back to 1808 with this line but always on the Scottish side of the border.
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I have in my possession a memorial book for a Mrs Smith who was the daughter of John Bell born Mary Ann on 5/10/1803 died 17/12/1891
John Bell was of Portington Hall she married Joseph Smith of Eastrington in April 1825
It is a lovely piece of family history - i dont know how I got it - it has her photo and signature in it.
If you are a relative would you be interested in it as it has no use to me but I do not want to just throw it away .
Your post here is over 2 years ago so I am hoping it is still a 'live' email
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Looks quite a bit like that of my family, from Thirsk (North Riding)
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Hi - do you think this is a bit of your family history then message
*if you think so
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Was responding to original query from John (re: Yorkshire)
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Here is another coat of arms. It is likely that this is a related family - the three bells, and the ermine chevron or fess are in common - but suitably differenced.
Here we have what we want to find - an individual of some distinction who possesses or believes he possesses in the male line the exclusive right to this version of these arms.
Worth checking further. If you do not find in the records of the College of Arms, check those of the Lord Lyon for any arms granted in Scotland.
Differences of tincture, crest, etc, will probably be evidence of a related ar assumed-related family distinguishing itself by a difference.
Since nobody would wish to use arms in a firm to which he was not entitled by direct descent in the male line from the original holder. Indeed, in Scotland this would be an offence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arms_of_Robert_Bell.JPG