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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: Stiubhard on Monday 19 March 12 15:57 GMT (UK)
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My great great grandfather John McKenna married Margaret Wilson in Minterburn Presbyterian Church on Christmas Day in either 1851 or 1852 (I am attempting to clarify the date, which differs between the record on Family Search and Emerald Ancestors). The groom's father was Robert McKenna and the bride's father John Wilson. Margaret was 27 at the time of the wedding. It seems that there is a strong connection between Minterburn church and the Wilson family. John and Margaret spent some time in America, as my great great Aunt Jane McKenna is shown on the 1901 and 1911 Belfast census as being born in the USA. She would have been born around 1860/1861. Her sister, Margaret McKenna, was born in Tyrone (Aughnacloy) in 1866. Ideally I would like to know where in the US John and Margaret were living when Jane was born, but I haven' t been able to find them on any records. or even on a shipping/passenger list. Any information gratefully appreciated. Presbyterian McKennas are unusual. In the 1901 census for Tyrone there is one single Presbyterian by that name, and he is a 4 year old boy. There are a handful of Church of Ireland families. As Aghaloo parish is right on the Monaghan border where the McKenna clan originate, there is a possibility that John was a Monaghan man and married in his wife's church. Any information gratefully appreciated, particularly help with the American mystery.
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When you found Jane McKenna (perhaps under married name?) did you look at the orighinal image as well as the transcription? sometimes the transcription leaves out details written on the original so it's worth checking if you haven't done so already.
If the family were back in Ireland by 1866 when Margaret was born you could try searching for the parents in 1860 U.S. census (with or without baby Jane). U.S. research is difficult whithout knowing the state as many records were kept on a state level and even then, 1860s is early for registration of births on a state basis.
You'll need to be careful because there seem to be another couple named John McKenna/Margaet Wilson having children in Belfast in the 1860s also.
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Many Thanks. I have looked at the original census return and there are no additional clues. The Belfast couple are the same family, they moved to Belfast after the birth of Margaret, to the Shankill Road, where my great grandmother Elizabeth McKenna was born. Neither Jane or Margaret married and they continued to live on the Shankill with their bachelor brother James until all three passed away. Another brother, Robert, died in his teens, and the only other sibling, Mary Ann (Annie) married a Robert Troughton and emigrated, first to Canada and then to the USA in the 1920s. Jane was the eldest and the only one born outside Ireland. As she was born around the time of the outbreak of the Civil War I was intrigued in case my great great grandfather had been involved in the conflict. There are several soldiers named John McKenna from Ireland listed in both armies.
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I had discounted the 'Belfast' couple due to the following births-
Mary Ann born 25 July 1864 Belfast (page 270 in civil register)
Robert born 28 June 1866 Belfast (page 353 in civil register)
Elizabeth born 12 Oct.1868 Belfast No 5, Co.Antrim (page 326 in civil register)
James born 19 Aug 1871 Belfast No 5, Co.Antrim (page 345 in civil register)
Your original post said a daughter Margaret was born in Aghnacloy in 1866 (the above Robert born in June that year in Belfast and children born before and after that date in Belfast).
If the parents were married in 1851 (as in LDS database) then it's quite possible they had quite a few other children born, either in Ireland or U.S., before 1864.
This looks like the McKenna family in 1901-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Woodvale_Ward/Wigton_Street/1008105
and in 1911-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Wood_Vale_Ward/Northumberland_Street/164679
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That is indeed the family. The only other clue to their American travels is on the 1901 census form original where the entry for Jane under "Where Born" has been over-written. I can make out that the enumerator has written "America", but cannot make out what the original entry was.
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Looks to me like America and U.S.A. written one over the other so not much help there.
Had a wee look at 1860 census and there are lots of John McKennas born in Ireland around the right period but only a few with wife Margaret-
- John McKenna (30) in Lowell, Middlesex, Mass. (but no young children)
- John (30) in N.Y., N.Y. (no children)
- John (34) in Buffalo, Erie, N.Y. (2 young children b.N.Y. but think they stayed in U.S.)
- John (25) in N.Y., N.Y.
Of course, McKenna could be mis-transcribed or have a completely different spelling...
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I now have the transcript of the marriage certificate for John McKenna and Margaret Wilson in Minterburn Presbyterian church on Christmas Day 1852. John McKenna was a farmer from Drummond townland, and Margaret Wilson was from Glendavagh townland. Griffiths valuation for Aghaloo parish shows a John Wilson, farmer, leasing 36 acres in Glendavagh, which was one of the bigger farms in the townland.
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My gg grandfather James WILSON of Mulnahorn m. Mary HAMILTON of Drummond at Aughnacloy Presbyterian in 1838. James' father was Robert WILSON who I believe also had a holding in Drummond. I have collected various other WILSONs from this area over the years and wonder if they fit in with your WILSONs. I also wonder whether a male WILSON from your line has been DNA tested?
Are the Minterburn parish records online or did you have them searched in Ireland?
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Hi David
I have little or no idea about the Wilson's. I only managed to find my great great grandparents marriage details last year on familysearch.org , and then got a hard copy through Emerald Ancestors. I have been to Minterburn and there are still Wilsons being buried in the graveyard there...there was a service just last month. The records aren't available online but can be searched at the Northern Ireland Public Records Office (PRONI). None of my family have been DNA tested (although I suspect one or two have been fingerpinted :P ) Out of interest, did you find a Susan Wilson who married a George Bell? As I posted previously George Bell was a witness at my gg Grandparent's wedding and I'm trying to link him to a George Bell in Savannah, Georgia. Long shot.
Stuart
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If Stuart and David are still researching the Wilsons of Mulnahorn, or looking for others of their ancestors' families in Co. Tyrone, this information may help. You can now access and view the ORIGINAL civil registrations of birth/marriage/death for Northern Ireland counties through the GRO in Belfast. You can pay for "credits" to use on the GRONI web site (GRO of Northern Ireland) from any country in the world with a credit card or PayPal. The registration indexes can be checked at no cost, then you pay to view more details or the original record. This on-line GRO service started in spring 2014 (April, I think).
Civil registrations of Protestant marriages began in 1845 (as we should all know), so the 1852 marriage at Minterburn Presbyterian Church would be registered with the GRO, as well as being entered in the church registers. Sometimes ministers used the government forms, so you may find the exact same details. Other times the minister used his own free-style to enter a marriage in his books, so details might vary from the civil marriage record. As Stuart wrote, Minterburn church records are on microfilm at PRONI, and you'd have to go there, or have another researcher go there for you, to view the microfilm. Minterburn records are fairly clear and easy to read on the film.
I'll be glad to share any information on the Wilsons of Mulnahorn. I have a bit on William Wilson of Mulnahorn and Isabella Hadden, who married in 1852 at Ballymagrane Presbyterian Church. William's father was Thomas Wilson.
Margaret Barnes in Australia is also researching Wilsons of Mulnahorn. You can find her posts on other message boards about the Wilsons and Hamiltons.
Regards,
Annie
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Hi Annie. Thanks for that. I had already accessed the online search facility when it was launched at GRONI. I have had to ration myself to 25 tokens every pay day or I would soon end up in trouble with the bank manager :P I see from Google maps that Mulnahorn Lane is not very far at all from Glendavagh Road. Do you know what the connection is, if any, between the Mulahorn Wilsons and my John Wilson of Glendavagh? From the looks of things my great great grandmother was one of three Wilson girls, the other two being Maria and Jane. It's confusing though because there are lot of Wilsons in the Minterburn church records.
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Stuart,
Glad to help further if possible. You wrote: <<Do you know what the connection is, if any, between the Mulahorn Wilsons and my John Wilson of Glendavagh? From the looks of things my great great grandmother was one of three Wilson girls, the other two being Maria and Jane. It's confusing though because there are lot of Wilsons in the Minterburn church records. >>
Does this mean that you found two other Wilson girls -- Maria and Jane -- to be daughters of a John Wilson of Glendavagh, possibly from their marriage records? Or did you identify them as sisters of Margaret Wilson (who married John McKenna in 1852) through other sources, documents or family stories? And are you a resident of Ireland that you can check back over Minterburn church records? Or, if living elsewhere, did you copy all the pertinent Wilson entries when you were in Ireland? If so, I'll be glad to help you sort out the families by analyzing the Wilsons in my research notes with the Minterburn families' births/baptisms and marriages. There were Wilsons of the Dyan (have you seen their extensive family chart?) and there were related Wilsons at Glenkeen.
Glendavagh is a very ancient townland, and I've found deeds and leases back to the 1760s-1770s there on my Haddens and related families. The oldest mention of it in the Registry of Deeds seems to be about 1708. Then we come forward about 50 years and I found that on January 21st, 1767, John Marshall of Mullaghmassagh granted to Archibald HADDEN part of Glendavagh which "said John Marshall held by a lease renewable forever" from Henry Marshall, to hold subject to redemption on payment of £100. On October 22nd, 1783, Joseph Marshall of Mullaghmassagh devised to John WILSON part of Glendavagh for 31 years at £14 sterling.
So my Haddens and possibly your Wilsons were neighbors at Glendavagh.
Glendavagh can be found under various phonetic spellings and interpretations in old records, including these:
Clondaw=ghy - 1609
Clonedaughie (?)
Clandaghy (?) - abt 1655
Clundavagh (?) - 1664
Clondaugh - 1666
Glendavogh, Glendavagh, Glendavogh, Clondavagh - abt 1691 in Aghaloo parish vestry books.
I'm very interested in the townland and its families. Would you like to write me personally and we'll go over further records?
Regards,
Annie
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Hi Annie. It took me a while to find the notes I had made on my last visit to the PRONI. I went through the Minterburn church records. I didn't find my great great grandmother, Margaret Wilson, but that didn't surpise me as I know the old tradition was often that the eldest child was baptised in the mother's church. I did find several Wilson children where the father was John Wilson. They were Jane (b1834) Richard (b1836) Moses (b1839). For each the mother is Jane Moore and the residence is Tannaghlane, which is right beside Minterburn and Glendavagh. There were also entries for a Henry Wilson (b1841, and a James (b1841) who appear to be twins. Their mother is Mary Jane Melon (or Melor) and the residence is Legane. Legane is also in the immediate area of Minterburn. I have assumed that the children of John Wilson and Jane Moore are my great great grandmother's siblings because a) Jane and Richard are family names that reoccur in subsequent generations and b) there is a record of the marriage of a Jane Wilson to James Marshall in Minterburn Church in 1855 where the bride's father is given as John Wilson of Glendavagh.
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Stuart,
You seem to be making great progress with the Wilsons. You wrote about Minterburn Presbyterian records:
<< I did find several Wilson children where the father was John Wilson. They were Jane (b 1834) Richard (b 1836) Moses (b 1839). For each the mother is Jane Moore and the residence is Tannaghlane, which is right beside Minterburn and Glendavagh. There were also entries for a Henry Wilson (b 1841, and a James (b 1841) who appear to be twins. Their mother is Mary Jane Melon (or Melor) and the residence is Legane. Legane is also in the immediate area of Minterburn. I have assumed that the children of John Wilson and Jane Moore are my great great grandmother's siblings because a) Jane and Richard are family names that reoccur in subsequent generations and b) there is a record of the marriage of a Jane Wilson to James Marshall in Minterburn Church in 1855 where the bride's father is given as John Wilson of Glendavagh. >>
Have you checked the Tithe Applotments to see where the "John Wilsons" may have been counted in Aghaloo parish? In 1825 and 1837, there were 3 John Wilson entries in the same townlands:
John WILSON - Glendavagh
John WILSON - Glassdrummond
John WILSON - Kilshanagh
In 1825, there's a William WILSON at Tannagh, and in 1837, a William WILSON at both Tannagh and Glendavagh. It seems odd not to see a John Wilson at Tannagh, since a man of that name and location was baptising children at Minterburn in the 1830s, but the Tithes aren't all-inclusive. If the man wasn't a farmer/agricultural land holder, or is he wasn't the "main" landholder of his farm (maybe his older brother or father or uncle was the tithe-payer), we won't find his name.
Also you can track John Wilson's land holdings at Glendavagh (and any Wilsons at Tannagh) from Griffith's Valuation Revisions, now on-line at PRONI, to see who took over the farm. The occupant/tenant transfers in the Revisions are fascinating.
And, since you found Jane Wilson, daughter of John Wilson of Glendavagh, marrying James Marshall in 1855, I'd trace that particular family and contact descendants if you can find them. Jane seems surely to be a sister of your ancestor Margaret Wilson who was a daughter of John Wilson of Glendavagh.
There's helpful information in various record sources on the Marshalls of Glendavagh/Aghaloo. Type in that name in a Google search, or I can copy more of my research notes for you.
Please write me directly if you want more help -- send a private message and we'll be in touch.
Regards,
Annie
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Hi Annie. Been a while since I chased any Wilsons :) I looked up Griffith's for Tannagh and there is a John Wilson. More interesting for me when I looked at the holding for John Wilson in Glendavagh and compared it with the modern map the farm seems to be lergely the same. I intend to visit next week to see if anything of the old farmhouse remains. In this part of the world old buildings were often retained even when newer ones were constructed. I also see that an adjoining farm in Glenkeen townland was farmed by Robert Wilson. That part of Tyrone was coming down with them! I also plan to call off in Caledon to see if there are any local history projects/contacts. I shall let you know how I get on.
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That is indeed the family. The only other clue to their American travels is on the 1901 census form original where the entry for Jane under "Where Born" has been over-written. I can make out that the enumerator has written "America", but cannot make out what the original entry was.
I make it out to be Clones!
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Lol...I can see where you get that, but I'm pretty sure Annie's theory is right...it looks like America and USA overwritten. But thanks for the suggestion.
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Lol...I can see where you get that, but I'm pretty sure Annie's theory is right...it looks like America and USA overwritten. But thanks for the suggestion.
;D ;D Bet Annie sees Clones when she looks again! ;D