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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Trees on Tuesday 27 March 12 15:16 BST (UK)
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Having found several An..ry trees indicasting that two people on my tree married and emigrated to Newark New Jersey I am trying to validate the information. I have the 1890 census which has the right age for the wife but there are only two children listed in family search for the couple giving the mother's maiden name and there is a discrepancy .
The census shows 4 children born in New Jersey to be Samuel Aug 1890, William Aug 1892, Elizabeth 1894 and John Aug 1898 and she declares having 4 children all still living but Family Search has:
Parents: Joshua Beer, Emily Loosemoore
name: Beer
gender: Female
birth date: 12 Apr 1893
birthplace: Newark, Essex, New Jersey
father's name: Joshua Beer
father's birthplace: Eng.
father's age: 29y
mother's name: Emily Loosemoore
But the only girl on the census is Elizabeth b Apr 1894
How reliable is this birth record? why can't I find the other children's births?
How can I find if the parents arrived together as a married couple between 1881 and 1890
the 1890 census indicates they have been married 14 years but I can't find any record of a marriage in the UK
Hope someone can help sort them out for memany thanks
Trees
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Do you mean 1900 U.S. census? (almost all of 1890 was destroyed years ago).
1900 census gives 14 years married (c1886) but both in U.S. since 1888 so it sounds as though the marriage took place before they arrived in U.S.
There is another record on LDS site (www.familysearch.org) besides the one you've found.
Male child born 4 Aug.1898 Newark, Essex Co., New Jersey- parents Joshua Beer (age 32, born England) & Emily Loosemoore (age 32, born England).
Both would be extracted birth records from New Jersey.
The nearest port of entry to Newark is New York- have you searched from them arriving together (or separately) at www.castlegarden.org.
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Many thanks aghadowey You are right I do mean 1900 census (found on family search)
I think this family search record is for John those dates are fine but why is Elizabeth a year out and what of Samuel and William How can I find Joshua and Emily's deaths they should be 1904 and 1934 respectively if the trees are right would Emily's death record give her maiden name?
My Emily Loosemore is born June qtr 1865 which is a very good match dare I accept the cousins married ?
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The 1895 New Jersey state census has them living in Newark with children Samuel, William, & Elizabeth.
Samuel & William's WWI & WWII Draft Registration cards both give their birthplace as Newark.
Here are the WWII ones- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRWV-34C
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XRWV-344
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Thanks for those : shellyesq it all helps build up the picture I am sure Joshua is on my tree now all I need is the proof that he married his cousin :)
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There looks like some mention of this family here: http://genforum.genealogy.com/handford/messages/91.html
Joshua is in the 1910 Census, so I think the death date of 1904 is off. Emily is widowed in the 1920 Census.
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There's a possible death notice for Joshua in the New York Times from 1911:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=FB0915F93E5517738DDDAB0A94D1405B818DF1D3
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wow that certainly links with my data Shellyesq and many thanks for the death notice. Interesting though that piece also has a death in 1904 I wonder if this is where others had found it.
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Emily appears to be in Newark city directories up to 1932, but not after that, so a 1934 death date seems like a possibility.
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I think I have enough evidence if the two birth 's on Family Search are sound to accept that the cousins have married but where and when is still a dark secret :o If they did marry in 1886 as per the 1900 census they were quiet young and waited a long time for the first child.
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I don't think this has been mentioned (apologies if it was):
Sailing on the Etruria from Liverpool and arriving New York, New York 13 February 1888:
Joshua Beer, age 22, (cannot read occupation), "last town" Devon.
The person above him also has Devon written down, and he has the same occupation. The man was John Levering(?), age 29. I mentioned him, in case there is any connection between the two. At this point, it doesn't appear that Emily was on board the ship.
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The 1910 Census says they were married for 21 years, Joshua immigrated in 1887, and Emily immigrated in 1889. If he immigrated first, that might explain the lack of children earlier.
In a passenger list for the City of Chester from Liverpool to New York, 17 Apr 1886, there is a Joshua Beer, age 21, laborer, from Devon. It's hard to read where he was going, but it might be Pittsburg.
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This may be more than you want, since it isn't about your couple, but sometimes checking other facts helps in the end:
Newark, Essex County, NY: Edmund Down and Ellen Loosemoore had a son, William J Down, 17 October 1895. Both parents were born in England. William was age 25, Ellen was age 24.
1910 Newark Ward 8 census:
Edmund L Down and Ellen L Down (with family). Edmund immigrated 1888. Ellen immigrated 1892. Edmund was a Motorman, Street Car.
Did Emily have a sister named Ellen?
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Brilliant thank you both now my Joshua was b 1866 in Atherington Devon so either could be right
Is it possible he went over and came back for her? was there a Emily Beer or Loosemore on the 1888 ship?
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Gracious Lisa there are DOWNS in the same family have you hit on something here I need to check the DOWN connections
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There is an Emily Loosemore, age 20, sailing on the Gallia from Liverpool to New York, arriving 3 May 1889. She was a servant, and it looks like her last legal residence was Liverpool.
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Was Ellen LOOSEMOREb about 1871? If so she is sister to Emily
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I'll check the 1881 census for where my Emily and Ellen were
1881 Ellen still with parents in Devon Emily a servant in Bishops Tawton so neither near liverpool
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While looking around U.S. records, I believe I saw the couple written down as "Downs" at least one time.
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I didn't check census for the same years, but checking the Beer family (1900 census) and the Down family (1910 census), they were living slightly less than one mile away from each other.
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William Henry Down married Ellen BEER in 1875 and had 9 children 1875-1888 in Devon now Ellen Beer was cousin to both Joshua and Emily
Are we on to something here?
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Edmond L Down is from the same village Atherington he is with his parents in 1881 must check his relationship to William
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1900 Newark Ward 8, District 75 - 8 June
Ed? Down, born Apr 1870, immigrated 1888, Inspector NJRR (New Jersey Railroad?)
Helen ? Down, born July 1871, immigrated 1890
The had been married 8 years. Three children are living with them.
(On Anc...try, he is shown as Edm* Doron for this census record.)
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It looks like Edmond l was son of John and Jane and born in Atherington but my William was son of John and Elizabeth b in Westleigh married Ellen Beer and raised his family in Atherington they must at the least have known each other I bet they turn out to be cousins have to go for a bit back later wow I love a hot chaseThank you all for this invaluable help
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Hi Trees,
Just a small snippet, posting on another forum some time ago from the great-grandson of Edmund Ley Down - "Down Ancestors from High Bickington"
http://www.high-bickington.org.uk/chat5.htm
Sandra
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1895 Newark Directory
Edmund L Downs, driver, h 52 1/2 Washington av
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1899-1901 Newark Holbrook Directory
Beer Joshua, foreman, h 9 Mt. Pleasant pl
Beer Chas N, motorman, h 9 Mt. Pleasant pl
;)
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Chapter 8 - Loosemore of Creacombe and Rose Ash
Under Family of George 1814
Ellen, a younger sister of George 1860, born in Atherington on 30 Jul 1871 (Ellen 1871) became engaged to a local boy Edmund Ley Down, born in Atherington on 21 April 1870 who then emigrated to USA in 1888. She followed him four years later and they were married on 6 September 1893 in Newark, New Jersey. Their descendants still live in N.Y. state.
http://www.loosemore.co.uk/Chapter8/CHAPTER8text.htm
Marriage - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FZG5-J8S
Pedigree Resource File - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M196-HD7
Sandra
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Another small snippet - posted a few years ago but maybe you can contact the poster. Sounds as though they may know where the "family plot" is in Newark. New Jersey.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/handford/messages/91.html
Sandra
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good work everyone I was away a couple of hours and look what you have all achieved bravo plenty here to keep me going for a while
Will digest alll the titbits and return Many thanks
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Sandra Reply #27 prooves Ellen Loosemore was sister of Emily Loosemore (Mrs Joshaua BEER) so the plot thickens I'll plough on through all your posts but this is shaping up really neatly the links between the Beer,Handford,Judd ,Loosemore and now Down families is taking some unravelling and will keep the old grey cells active many many thanks
Lisa Reply #27 what sort of foreman do you think he was I noticed he was a foreman on the 1900 census but no indication to the industry involved. Strangely I can't find Chas N on the 1900 census can anyone else? :) The only Charles i have so far on the tree is Charles Frederick can't find one on the UK censuses either :'(
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Hi Trees,
The 1900 Census shows Chas Norman listed on the end of the Beer household described as a border born November 1872 New Jersey - Single - Occupation:- Motorman.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M9J3-FBW
Funnily enough he is also listed as Chas N Beer in the 1902 City Directory, along with Joshua at 9 Mount Pleasant Pl.
Sandra
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How odd I wonder what was going on does Chas Norman turn up on later censuses I wonder? Perhaps one of the Beers filled in the Directory entry and the chap assembling the entry thought the Norman was part of the Christian name I can see it happening after all we don't usually write our surnames in capitals to distinguish them from given names may be we should so many surnames are also used as given names aren't they my own father had the name Marshall his mother's maiden surname My husband has Lewis as a name the surname of one of his grandmother It is a common praactice here in Wales I know several William Williams (one we call Bill double check but thats another story) , James JAMES David DAVID,and John JOHNs ;D
I have followed Edmund Ley back a couple of generations so although he joins the tree on marriage he doesn't link up with William Henry
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Apart from a discrepancy in the birth place, now born England 1871 (immigrated 1890 NA) ??? Could this be Chas Norman married in 1910 to Cynthia. ???
1910 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MKTL-N8F
1920 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M451-XTS
1930 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X4DZ-X7J
Sandra
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yes I think that looks good so he is a bit of a red herring I think the directory entry was a mistake somewhere along the line. I've been chasing through the uk censuses for the rest of the family it realy is an interwoven mix of about four families I think everyone in North Devon relates somehow to me :) and boy is the tree bushy I think I will need to do some drastic pruning soon but it is fascinating and they have some interesting occupations too the eariest Beers were thatchers that is prooving and interesting look
must go hang the washing or I'll miss this lovely drying weather back later
trees
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Lisa Reply #27 what sort of foreman do you think he was I noticed he was a foreman on the 1900 census but no indication to the industry involved.
Hi Trees,
The 1910 Census says Joshua was a Foreman - Stable. ;)
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MKT2-TZB
The son Samuel was a cigar - salesman in 1910 and William was a driver - wholesale cigars.
Son John E Beer was Editor of a paper in 1920 and City Editor Sunday Call/Cell in 1930.
The 1920 shows a Veronica Beer and Ruth Beer - think Veronica was the wife of William (and Ruth a daughter) On the 1930 Census William is widowed and unemployed and no sign of Veronica but he has 3 children, daughter Ruth born 1920 and 2 sons. (better not name incase still living)
Sandra
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According to a family tree entry Veronica died in 1925.
Edward one of the sons has also died
Edward S. Beer. 31 August 1924 - 18 June 2008
Last Residence: 08867 Pittstown, Hunterdon, New Jersey
SSN was issued in New Jersey (Before 1951)
There was an Obituary but its not coming up for me at the moment.
Edward S. Beer - Home News Tribune - (Jun/24/2008)
William Edward Beer - Born 5 Aug 1892 in Hinsdale, New Jersey
and died Dec 1967 in Newark, Essex, New Jersey,
Sandra
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So more interesting work I never thought we'd have a newspaper man very interesting.
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OK lets summarise the situation
Joshua and Emily Beer from Devon are on the 2900 and 1819 censuses in Newark,Essex new Jersey
On the 1910 census The 1910 Census says they were married for 21 years, Joshua immigrated in 1887, and Emily immigrated in 1889. So they didnot marry in the UK neither do we find a marriage in America :o in 1900 they seem to tell a different tale ie they married before they left and both arrived in the same year ::)
There is evidence in Family Search that two of the children on the censuses were children of Joshua Beer and Emily LOOSEMORE this is proof of who the bride really was.
A Joshua Beer was on two passenger lists:
The City of Chester from Liverpool to New York, 17 Apr 1886, there is a Joshua Beer, age 21, laborer, from Devon. It's hard to read where he was going, but it might be Pittsburg.
and
Sailing on the Etruria from Liverpool and arriving New York, New York 13 February 1888:
Joshua Beer, age 22, (cannot read occupation), "last town" Devon.
Which is our josh or did he briefly come back perhaps to persuade Emily to follow him? Was he sent as a missionary i know some Mormons came back to tell folk of their new found faith. Does it say on any census what religion they were? or am I thinking of Canadian Censuses?
There is an Emily Loosemore, age 20, sailing on the Gallia from Liverpool to New York, arriving 3 May 1889. She was a servant, and it looks like her last legal residence was Liverpool.
All the ages are possible for the couple Did he send for her having got a home and job sorted out did she go to marry him but found when she got there every one assumed they were already wed so they "forgot " to marry and told the lie that they had married before he came to America Umm
Next we found her sister had come and had married in New Jersey too :
Edmund Down and Ellen Loosemoore
Edmund Down doesn't appear to relate to William Henry Down cousin to Josh, Ellen and Emily
Ed? Down, born Apr 1870, immigrated 1888, Inspector NJRR (New Jersey Railroad?)
Now was he on eitherThe City of Cheste or the Etruria? Is it possible that the boys went together to try their luck in the USA? or did they meet up in Newark and Josh and Emily introduced him to Ellen?
It would be good to find them on passanger lists too.
We have established the deaths of both Joshua and Emily can we do the same with Edmund and Ellen?
Gosh we have come a long way with this many thanks to your hard work.
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Edmund & Ellen are in the Newark city directories through at least 1942. Coverage is spotty after that.
There's a submitted tree that gives a marriage date for them & death dates and burial places for both: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M196-HD7
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There's a submitted tree that gives a marriage date for them & death dates and burial places for both: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/M196-HD7
Above is also quoted in reply 27 but the site seems to be playing up on both of these links now. ???
This is the note I made on Ellen.Helen :-
Ellen Loosemore - Born 30 July 1871 Atherington, Devon, England
Died 25 May 1952 Atlantic Highlands NJ burial: 28 May 1952 Delawanna NJ
Helen Down was buried in E. Ridgelawn Cemetery; Delawanna NJ, Section 24 Lot
Edmund Ley Down last lived at 59 Chester Avenue in Newark NJ. At the time of his marraige in 1893, he was living at 52 1/2 Washington Avenue in Newark. As of the 1900 federal census, he was still living on Washington Avenue with his wife and 3 children. According to the census, he was employed as an inspector on the New Jersey Railroad.According to his grand son, he had brothers who changed their names to their mother's maiden name (Ley) and moved to New York City after anunsuccessful strike placed them on blacklists. His brother John LeyDown was listed as a witness to his marriage.
Edmund Ley Down - Born 21 April 1870 - Atherington, Devon, England - Died 4 October 1950
Newark NJ - Burial: 7 October 1950 - Delawanna NJ
Sandra
Added Must be intermittant - links working again now ;D
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On the 1881 census in Atherington you have:
John Down
Jane (nee Ley)
John L 1864
Henry L 1866
Jane 1868
Edmond L 1870
George L 1871
I'm guessing all the boys had Ley as second name so it would be easy for them to use LEY as an alternative surname there still is no law that says a woman must take her husbands surname but it is verrrry rare for her not too
Did the whole family go across the Atlantic?
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Hi Trees,
Didn't check them all but saw George Ley Downs in Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan. Wales in 1901
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XSWF-LHT
George Downs 32 Born Atherington. Devon.
Cathrine Downs 30 Born Troedyraur Merthyr, Glamorgan, Wales
Edward James Downs 10 Born Treherbert, Glamorgan, Wales
Ida Elizabeth Downs 6 Born Axminster, Devon, England
Daniel George Downs 4 Born Axminster, Devon, England
William John Downs 1 Born Axminster, Devon, England
and https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XW9G-VZ2
Atherington, Berkshire, England in 1901
John Down 76 Farmer. Employer.
Jane Down 66 Farmer's Wife
Henry L Down 35 Farmer's Son - Worker. Died 1966
Jane Down 33 Farmer's Daughter - Worker
George Pearce 16 Servant
Henry L Down. Born 1866 - Died Q2 April/May/June 1950 aged 84 years Barnstaple Devon.
Volume: 7a Page: 283
Sandra
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Father John Downs Died 17 th March 1903 - Probate Date: 17 Apr 1903
John Down of Little Hall, Atherington, Devonshire, died 17 th March 1903. Probate granted London 17 th April 1903 to Henry Ley Down (farmer) and Jane Down (spinster) an George Ley Down (farmer) Effects £1067 - 12s - 3d.
Sandra
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George Ley Down - Born abt 1872 in Atherington, Devon, England and died 15 Sep 1928 in Little Hall, Atherington, Devon.
George Ley Down. Died 15 September 1928 Devon. - Probate 27 th October 1928
George Ley Down of Little Hall Farm, Atherington, Devon died 15 th September 1928 - Probate London 27 th October 1928 to Elizabeth Down (widow) and John Down (farmer) Effects £5153 - 1s - 1d.
(Wonder if he remarried because Catherine was his first wife ??)
Sandra
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This is proving to be a nice site http://www.devonheritage.org/Places/Atherington.htm
The 1850 directory is full of family namesIn 1850 " Down, Henry, Little Hall" I hope they are able to extend the parish rexords at the monet they only have burials if they had baptisms you would be able to identify the infant deaths but it is a good startU for one will be bookmarking it
I wonder how they pronounce LEY ? (Lee or Lay)
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Checked yes Henry and Jane are the grandparents of all the Ley Beer boys
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Ancestry message board posting on Jane Delbridge wife of Henry Downs
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.delbridge/43/mb.ashx
Jane Delbridge daughter of Richard Delbridge and Elizabeth Cawsey.
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/j/a/c/Joan-A-Jachowski/GENE7-0006.html
Richard Delbridge, born 1754; died May 1816 in Atherington, Devon, England. He married Elizabeth Cawsey June 7th, 1779 in Atherington, Devon, England.
Sandra
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We know from the detail in the pedigree resource file that John Ley Down was a witness at the marriage of his brother Edmund.
Checking back John L Down was with Edmond on the Etruria arriving 9 th April 1888.
Haven't found him in New York City under Ley though ???
Sandra
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Oh now that is interesting remember
Sailing on the Etruria from Liverpool and arriving New York, New York 13 February 1888:
Joshua Beer, age 22,
so John L Down was with Edmond on the Etruria arriving 9 th April 1888. must have been the next sailing of the ship
I wonder why they all went was it for religion or work must look at the situation in 1888 and had a missionary been in Atherington just before They don't head out for Salt Lake City so I don't think it was a Mormon mission
Now I find two of my BEERS married to TUCKERs have left the village for Canada about the same period I think they were all agricultural workers so it could be mechanisation of farms influencing employment
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looking at that second link I have a john SHUTE 1775 from Dolton with nothing other than his baptism I wonder if he has strayed to Atherington? May be worth a quick check it would be good to help someone else along
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I wonder why they all went was it for religion or work must look at the situation in 1888 and had a missionary been in Atherington just before They don't head out for Salt Lake City so I don't think it was a Mormon mission
Part of the reason could be in the information in the pedigree resource file "According to his grand son, Edmund had brothers who changed their names to their mother's maiden name (Ley) and moved to New York City after an unsuccessful strike placed them on blacklists"
Sandra
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looking at that second link I have a john SHUTE 1775 from Dolton with nothing other than his baptism I wonder if he has strayed to Atherington? May be worth a quick check it would be good to help someone else along
Haven't managed to find John Shute with a Jane, many other options but not that combination.
Glanced through 15 - 20 tree entries but noone has got any concrete information on either of them. Drawn a blank.
Sandra
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Me too I'm afraid I know my John SHUTE was baptised in Dolton butt he is way out on a twig so I haven't paid him much attention till now