RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: aakarlhamo on Tuesday 27 March 12 18:49 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have just found my birth mother who has told me that her mum has always said that there is gypsy/Romany/fairground blood in the family. She also mentioned something about it being French Romany? Unfortunately, she can't remember any more than that but she did say that she remembers an old photo of her gt grandfather whittling outside a gypsy caravan.
Just about all of the family tree for that side of the family has been resolved and our Serjeant name comes from Haslingfield Cambs and can be traced back to yeomen in the early 1700's. The origins of our name is French and it should have an accent over the first 'e' and be pronounced Surjeon
However, there is a marriage of a Maria Thurston born abt 1800, Sutton, Isle of Ely, to John Serjeant born abt 1795 Haslingfield. They married in 1829 at St Benedicts Church (Cambridge I think). I have the pallots marriage for them. (these are my mum's gt grandparents!)
In the 1851 census John is a journeyman butcher. I cant find the 1841 or 1871 census for Maria and John. In 1861 they are living in Harlton where John continued as butcher until his death in 1880.
On Maria's 1887 death certificate her name is given as Ann Maria Bush Serjeant but on the Pallots marriage and census she is listed as Maria!
Bush is such a random name I wonder if it was the mother's maiden name?
The name Thurston does have connections with fairgrounds although this is in the 20th c and looking at it logically I wonder if they were a showmen family at that time?
I would be grateful for any insight or info.
Thanks Carole ;D
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Hi.
Most of the Gypsies ! entered England via France a few hundred years ago and in Scotland a bit earlier, in France they are not known as Romany but Manush once as Bohemians, when they arrived there was already itinerant people in England who lived like Gypsies they were called Chorodies also Kora-Mengre who the Romany classed as a filthy people in looks and ways, some English Folk today are desended from these people and not just from Romany Folk, the Romany adopted the local surnames sometimes miss understanding the surname meaning, there was also the Hindity-Mengre or Irish Travellers who had been in England for about 400 years before the Romany had arrived, The Scotish and Irish Travellers, The Scotish,Welsh and English Romany not forgetting the Fair Ground folk are all seperate tribes with there own identity and customs which is good to know when researching your tree.
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Hi
I think the family is here in 1841, relying heavily on the transcription as the image is quite faint.
Ho107/68 6/7
Caxton and Arrington, Little Eversden , Cambs.
John Sergant 45 Butcher
Marion 35
Alfred 11
Abslom 9
Abigail? 6
Ammon 4
Helen 1
All born in county.
Best wishes,
Cathy
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Thank you so much for the information on the gypsy tribes - really interesting and useful as it will open up my searches ;D
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Hi Cathy
Thanks for the 1841 census and yes that is them - fantastic where did you find it as it isn't on ancestry or freecen?
Carole ;D
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Hi Carole,
The 1841 is on Ancestry and strangely much clearer than FindMyPast.
Transcribed under John Lergant 1796.
HO107/68 9/6 7
Cathy :)
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Cheers Cathy, I am off to get that elusive census!
It does make me laugh with the variations of the name ;D
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Googling "Thurston's fairs" found this interesting picture of "Mr Sargent of Thurston's Fair 1906":
http://www.jeffreygreen.co.uk/037-mr-sargent-of-thurstons-fair-1906
Thurston's funfair regularly visited Newport Pagnell and a property next to the Market Hill, where Newport Fair was traditionally held, is currently named Thurston House.
Maybe try doing some more research on Thurston - try the national fairground archive site - to see if you can find more about possible showmen ancestry.
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Hi
Thanks for the fairground site suggestion I will have a look and see if it offers any info.
I just loved the postcard and the message about the boots. Not sure if he is one of my Serjeants although it is strange the Sergeant and Thurston name connection ;D
Regards
Carole ;D
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I’m friends with a Thurston who is a showman (woman) there is and always have been a difference between gypsy Roma Irish travellers and showman and circus travellers tho.
Showman are inherent business men and have a base usually a wintering yard where it’s treated like a housing estate, each position pays council tax etc