RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Anne W on Sunday 01 April 12 07:32 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I've hit a brickwall trying to trace Honora Young who married Lancelot Costello in 1852 in Ballarat. I can find no birth or death for her or any immigration records.
The couple had two children JOHN born 1855 in Ballarat and LANCELOT born 1857 also in Ballarat. Lancelot senior died in 1859 in Ballarat so there is a good chance that Honora remarried, but a can't find any evidence of this.
Lancelot Costello was an Irish convict from Tipperary, convicted of Manslaughter and transported on the St Vincent arriving in 1837. He got his TOL for the Goulburn area.
Lancelot Costello and Honora Young's son John end up in Bourke NSW , where he lived for 5 years with my Ann Hart/Magee's daughter. I am trying to find out if Honorah Young is any relation to Bridget Young, who married Richard Hart in 1852 in Gundagai and was the mother of Steve Hart who was a member of the Kelly gang.
Lancelot can be Lanty and Honora can be Nora, just to make things interesting! Any help with this would be great
Bye
Anne
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Here is a long shot ...
There is a marriage in NSW BDM for a John Dunn and a Harumoriah (!) Costello in Sydney in 1860. There are then births with parents John and Honoria Dunn.
By the way at Ballarat Cemetery it has Launcelot (!) Costello with several others in the grave but I don't think they are relevant http://ballaratcemeteries.com.au/php/sitesummary.php?id=37753
cheers,
Ros
adding : marriage reg 203/1860
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http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/COSTELLO/2010-08/1280894834
The above states:
I believe her father was William and that she died in 1902 in Eganstown
Jamjar
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The couple had two children JOHN born 1855 in Ballarat and LANCELOT born 1857 also in Ballarat.
They actually had four children here are the other two:
Births:
COSLOW Mary Ann b. 1854 BALL #4315
Father: Launcelot
Mother: Ann HONOR
COSTELLO Timothy b. 1859 BALLT #2080
Father: Lancelot
Mother: Honora YOUNG
Deaths:
COSTELO Maryann age 10mths d. 1855 BALL #1195
Father: Lancelot
Mother: Nora
COSTELLO Timothy age 2mths d. 1859 WAR #1221
Father: Lancelot
Mother: Honora
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Wonder if it was all too much?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5681582?searchTerm=%22Launcelot%20costello%22&searchLimits=
Jamjar
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You have two lads but one 'he'.
Lancelot Costello and Honora Young's son John end up in Bourke NSW , where he lived for 5 years with my Ann Hart/Magee's daughter
Jamjar
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At Eganstown cemetery:
McMAHON John, Bridget Mary, Mary Ann, Honora, Nora Monica, Dennis
ONEIL John, Honora
PRENDERGAST Honora, Patrick, John
Jamjar
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Ballarat cemetery:
Timothy COSTELLO 2mths 22-1-1859
As written on the site:
Costelo Mary Ann F/Lanty M/ 17Mar1855 10mth Ballarat?
Jamjar
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Thank you everyone for your help. If the RootsWeb poster is correct and Honora Young was from Tipperary then she can't be Bridget Young's relation as Bridget was from Galway.
Trove is misbehaving at the moment and I can't get on, but will try again later. I totally missed the two children who died young, thank you JamJar.
Lancelot Costello's and Honora Young's son John Costello born 1855 is the one who ended up in Bourke and was living with Frances Julia Crawford nee Magee. Frances Julia's mother was Ann Hart who could very well be the sister of Richard Hart who married Bridget Young. We have been trying to prove the relationship between Richard and Ann Hart ( see various RootsChat posts)
I was just wondering if Honora Young could just possibly be a relation to Bridget Young. It would be a real link between Ann Hart and Richard Hart if she was.
thank you again,
Anne
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It was Merlin who found the kiddies, Anne. I just found them at the cemetery using the link provided by Ros. What a team! ;D
Have you considered emailing the other person who is interested in this search?
Jamjar
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http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/COSTELLO/2010-08/1280894834
The above states:
I believe her father was William and that she died in 1902 in Eganstown
I don't think this is her death :-\
The Nora COSTELLO who died in 1902 at Eganstown is registered as 91yo, so that makes her born c1811.
If that was your Honora she would be 41yo at marriage in 1852 & having children up until she was 48yo in 1859.
Not impossible but I don't think it's your lady.
Does the parish registration of their marriage in 1852 give her age or any other details?
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Sorry Merlin for the ill directed thanks! The discovery of Honora Young is very recent so I don't have any certificates as yet, but I see I'll have to order her Marriage Certificate , if only to rule her out as any relation to Bridget.
I think the Egantown Nora sounds far too old, but believe me, stranger things have happened in the story of this family! I think Honora could have remarried.
The other mystery in this story is what happened to John Costello after he committed poor Frances Julia under the Lunacy Act in 1887 and she was shipped off to the Parramatta Psychiatric Hospital from Bourke ( a very long story this one).
There is a John Costello who married Frances Jane Torpy in Queensland in 1901. This couple spent time in Cunnamulla, where our Frances Julia's mother and sister died, as well as time in Bourke. Of course all their children appear in the Birth Index's as father John Costello, mother Frances J, which caused mass confusion for a while!
I don't know which is more unbelievable. That one man could have been involved with two completely different women called Frances J or two men called John Costello could both be having children in the Bourke area with women called Frances J!
John Costello's is another death that has to be found!
Bye
Anne
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Hi there,
Sorry for long post, and several possible diversions.
From the 13 volumes of the Bourke & District Historic Society .... so it is submitted info provided by their members researching in the 1960s to 2000s etc, but using their local records back into the 19thC.
So re elusive John Costello (could well be a different chap though)
Vol 8
ENNGONIA.
This short paragraph was provided 31 Jan 1978 by a relative of the PROUT family.
"Sydney and Alfred Prout, Grand Uncles, of Kangi Station in the channel country along with Patsy Durack AND HIS BROTHER IN LAW JOHN COSTELLO were mentioned in the Sun Herald two issues back. We say they perished on the Barclay Tableland and Australian Encyclopaedia says Simpson Desert, probably in the vicinity of the area where they merged."
JM comments
a) "Sun Herald two issues back" suggests to me that in early to mid Jan 1978 there was an article in that NSW newspaper.
b) The Durack family were very prominent and may be easier to trace to see if that bro in law (John Costello) was related to Lancelot Costello.
I had a quick look further on my CD, re John Costello and spotted this:
"1867 - Thylungra, Kyabra and Galway Downs were taken up by Patrick and Michael Durack and John Costello." So perhaps 1867 taking up a lease would rule out the Durack-Costello chap as you have your chap as born 1855.
I recall posting info this resource
" The following snippet is from the first page of Volume 1 and should help you find the hardcopy volumes
"Papers on the History of
BOURKE AND DISTRICT
Volume No. 1
Produced by the voluntary effort of members of the
BOURKE AND DISTRICT HISTORICAL SOCIETY
Bourke, NSW - October, 1966."
This link may also help
http://www.backobourke.com.au/news-events.php "
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,498551.40.html reply #40
From same offline resource
Early Bourke marriages
25 July 1863
James CRAWFORD, Batch. Of Sydney, Stockman 28, usual residence “Mole on the Macquarie Marshes, son of James Crawford, a stone mason and Mary Johnson and Frances Magee, spinster, usual residence Windsor Road, Sydney dau of Thomas Magee a shoe Maker and Nora Hart; Witnesses James Boyle and Mary Ann Boyle
15 October 1863
Thomas COSTOLLO (‘e’ missing, ‘o’ instead !) a batchelor, carrier, aged 44, born Lancashire, usual residence Bourke, son of John Costollo, Laborer and Margaret Degnum married Susannah MERIDITH formerly BRACKER, a widow, born London, a Ladies Bootbinder, aged 36, usual residence Bourke, dau of James Adam BRECKER a Waterman, and Elizabeth McAndrews witnesses Arthur MacAnstn and James Nelson (his x mark)
:) Could be a Ladies Bootbinder may have worked with a Shoe Maker?
:) Is it possible that Thomas Costollo had children and named one of them John in a naming pattern, after his own father?
Fingers crossed I am not side tracking too far, if so I apologise. (The info above could belong to the earlier generation :-[ )
Cheers, JM
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Sorry for the delay in replying but I have been away for the last few days visiting my daughter. I'm back now and ready to try and sort this out.
Thank you Majm for all your hard work. The James Crawford/Frances Magee marriage is my couple.
The John Costello who was associated with Patsy Durack is very interesting and there is quite a bit on him on line. He was originally from the Yass area and, according to his Biography, he organised and led a group of Irish Catholics from that area to settle in south western Queensland.
The more I dig into the story of our Magee/Crawfords the more I find that a lot of the families that were associated with them were from the Yass area. Yass was known as "Little Tipperary"at one point as there were so many Irish Catholics there.
This John Costello was the son of Michael Costello, a convict from Tipperary. Lancelot Costello was also a convict from Tipperary, but so far I can't find any other connection.
Thank you again for all your help.
Bye
Anne
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Lancelot (Lanty) Costello of Sydney married Hanora Young of Melbourne in 1852 at St Francis Church Melbourne. Lanty died at Warrenheip and Honora at Eganstown. She lived there from the 1860's until her death at 91 years old. Hanora is buried Eganstown Roman Catholic Church. When she died her husband and children has died before her. The couple married in their 40's and so started having children late. Lanty's death certificate - he died 26/10/1859 indicates he may have only been in Australia for 8 years and so arrived around 1851. The person who reported her death was a neighbour John Egan from Eganstown. Lanty's death was reported by Michael Kennedy who is listed as his brother in law. It seems possible that Lanty may have been married before to a Kennedy woman, but a search of NSW BDM did not reveal an earlier marriage. It may have taken place in Ireland. My feeling is that they both may have come from Borrisoleigh Tipperary.
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Hi All
I am a direct descendent of Lanty Costello. I did have a website which has unfortunately been lost. I haven't been involved in genealogy for some time. I will get my act together and msg again soon with information about your queries.
Kind regards
Sue
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Anyone still on this thread?
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Hi musclesmaginty and maginty :)
Welcome to rootschat :D
Anne W (the original poster) was active on the board in November so will have been notified of your post (if has same e-mail) and will probably be along soon.
In the meantime is there anything we can help you with?
Ros
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No that's fine! Muscles Maginty and Maginty are the same person, just changed email addresses. Just got interested in this again and wanting to swap stories :)
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Hi All- Hoping someone's still following this chat! I'm wondering if anyone has any more information on John Costello and his relationship to Frances Magee? Also- what happened to him after he had her committed and why he allowed his children to be found wandering the streets of Bourke? Maybe he went to jail?
I'd really appreciate any input! Thanks so much!!