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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Breconshire => Topic started by: rumneywoodchippy on Sunday 08 April 12 17:21 BST (UK)

Title: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Sunday 08 April 12 17:21 BST (UK)
hi
 is it possible to find a family tree for the davies of llywell, i believe the families were all closely tide as it was a small village in the 1800,s
 i have been to llywell with my wife and seen the area,  i have been to llandrindod
(i think its spelt) and done some research of the parish records for llywell church,
but i live in norfolk and its a bit far to just pop over, if you know what i mean,
i have traced my family back to william davies son of rees and ann, baptists 1858
looks like 11th Dec,,, page 124 no 987 of the baptisms of llywell

   william became a tailor and fathered my grandmother florence grace davies 1902,,
     but i can not guarentee the father of rees or the maiden name of ann.
there are to many rees,s and ann,s from the area, i have all the census back to 1841 but cannot make the connection with out going back to the records office
         any helpers
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Monday 09 April 12 20:09 BST (UK)
Well you certainly have got a tricky job on  your hands, because even nowadays the majority of the families in Llywel are called Davies!  Llywel is the parish church of the area and serves not only the hamlet of Llywel but also the village of Trecastle.  Do you have any idea where your Davies family might have lived?    That might help to narrow it down a bit; but I do believe that you are probably related in some way to every Davies in the Llywel/Trecastle area!

Regards
GS (who used to live in Trecastle)
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Tuesday 10 April 12 18:25 BST (UK)
hi gs
   first of all i am new to the site and looking through other davies request i see you are the favourite for answering the davies questions, so best regards
                         my problem is although i am fairly good with the census because of the shear amount of davies in the area you cannot guarentee the correct family even with the same job title,,
   i have some parish records of families from llywell church which when searching thought they might be my family but on reflection with out a few more marriage certs its hard to tell,, i have a couple of pages from the church registry.
      questions.. are the llywell church records available on cd,,,?    has anyone managed to sort out the davies in some sort of order? that you know about,,,

   anyway thanks for your reply,,  we are on holiday soon in prestatyn on some research on the st. asaph convent,,,   will see if i can take a day out to the records office in llandridod and see if a few more pages on marriages help
  best regards for now runmeywoodchippy
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Tuesday 10 April 12 19:21 BST (UK)
hi gs 
just reading your question the family so far as i know is as this

llywell parish records

william     Bapt, 11 (dec)  1858  rees & ann davies  Llywell village  labourer
Thomas    Bapt  19  aug 1860      "   "    "         "      Llywell village  labourer
James      Bapt, 10 Aug,  1862     "    "    "         "     Llywell village  labourer
Mary ann  Bapt  25 oct 1864         "   "   "          "     Ca*rly*****     Farmer

i Also have a elizabeth Bapt, 12th jan 1862 Rees & ann Trecastle  labourer
she is not on the census  so could be a different family or she could have died before 1871 

1871 census    Llywell Village
rees davies    head   34      abt 1837   llywell   farmers labourer
ann                wife     36      abt 1835  llywell   """"   ""   wife
william            son      13     abt 1858  llywell                   son
thomas           son      11     abt  1860  llywell                  son
james              son       9    abt   1862  lywell                   son

1861 census  Llywell Village
rees Davies     head      24     abt 1837     LLywell       Ag Lab.
ann                  wife       24      abt 1837    Llywell         "  "  wife
William             son        3        abt  1858  Llywell                son
thomas            son    9/12months   1860 Llywell                 son

i havn,t got rees and ann in the 1851 census yet  ,,

                             best regards rumneywoodchippy
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 10 April 12 22:35 BST (UK)
I think you might take some degree of encouragement from the fact that the Davies family of Trecastle/Llywell are all related, so if you can connect with one, you will connect with all of them, and they are all, without exception, lovely people!

Somewhere I have a book called 'Roots and Branches' by T Evans which gives details of the various families of Trecastle/Llywel.  Not sure if it is available generally, I know it was privately published.  I have also some rather extensive research notes which I did when living in the area; I will see if I can find them too.

Llywel village is really tiny - there are only about half a dozen houses there - so theoretically it shouldn't be hard to find out where your family lived.

Regards,
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Wednesday 11 April 12 16:12 BST (UK)
anwyl rhymney,
Your family appear on M.I. C22 at Llywel P.Ch. There are about 5 names on the inscription(just checked my survey) The parents  of Rees were William & Ann Davies. This family appears in T.O.Evans book Roots & Branches pp. 126.
Garfydd
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Wednesday 11 April 12 18:18 BST (UK)
thanks gs and garfydd,
† †seems my new projectwill be book collecting again amazon have the book in listing and on cd but not in stock,, so would presume in time i may acquire a copy,, sound invalueble as a source to famly history..
† † †if the parents of rees born abt 1837 is william and ann davies does this mean the father of ann is david davies age 80 and she was visiting him with rees and maryann in 1851 Breconshire > Llanfihangel Nant Brane > District 7 > 24 ,,
† † †its the right age for rees and he seems not to be around in llywell

gs..† not to be to personal,, but are you a davies???......

garfydd..† does anwyl mean something different in welsh than dear,,??
isn,t dear spelt with two n,s, ;D† ::)
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Wednesday 11 April 12 20:58 BST (UK)
Tommy Evans' book 'Roots and Branches' is an interesting piece of work but tends to be rather subjective in places so needs to be treated with some degree of caution.  I have a copy somewhere so I will see what it has to say about the Davies family.... if I can find it since my house move last year.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Thursday 12 April 12 20:49 BST (UK)
thanks gs. and thanks for your time
     some of my family lines have been very interesting if not hard to trace ,, my g, grandmother from ireland, elizabeth hughes has been a great mystery for year, and the davies very hard just by the shear amount of families around,,  now you have said that the llywells are related in some form i will start to put together some family chain,,  do you know if there is available on cd copies of the llywell parish records,, from llandrindod record offices maybe? 
     regards for now rumneywoodchipy
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Sunday 15 April 12 12:49 BST (UK)
I have found my copy of Roots & Branches now: here is an extract of the piece referred to by garfydd:

"William Davies born 1858 was a tailor at Canolmaes.  He married 25.4.1879 Ann daughter of Rees Davies and they had issue: 1879 Margaret Ann, 1880 Walter James; 1882 Mary Louise; 1884 Walter Rees; 1886 William John, 1888 David James."

Regards,
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Sunday 15 April 12 16:11 BST (UK)
thanks gs.

  on the 1911 census william is on his own with 4 children including my grand mother florence grace,  the 1911 census asks how many children were born and how many are still living,,. i was quite shock to find william had seventeen children,, i only have nine at the moment in my tree,
    The book has added a couple of more children from the early days, thankyou for the information,,,   unfortunately in 1911 only ten children were still living,, but we all know life in the old days was a bit harder, without the meds we have today..
    i,ll send of for the marriage cert now i have a exact date,, couldn,t do it before there is about lots william davies marrying an ann davies..

    thanks for you help, will post some more soon
                                                      regards rumneywoodchipy
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Sunday 15 April 12 19:58 BST (UK)
Do you have an address for the family in 1911?  I see from Roots & Branches that Tommy Evans gives their address as Canolmaes, which is a house in the main street of Trecastle.  If you google Canolmaes, Trecastle you can see a picture of the house as it appears to be for sale!

Regards,
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Monday 16 April 12 19:32 BST (UK)
hi gs.
  i thought canolmaes was a house name,, who does tom say is living at the  house in trecastle , william 1858 is living at no4 king str. brecon with
Elizabeth A Davies    41
William J Davies    14
Elizabeth P Davies    10
Susannah P Davies    9
ivor e Davies    4
Llewelyn t Davies    9 Months

in 1911 he was living at 4 Maendu Court. brecon.with
William Davies    53
Ivor Edgar Davies    14
Llywellyn Tom Davies    10
Florence Grace Davies      7
         elizabeth is no longer around wonder if she died..

have sent of for another birth and marriage cert today from brecon will see what turns up,, must be a headache for the registrar he.he. so many same davies,, with same names,,   
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Monday 16 April 12 23:37 BST (UK)
In Trecastle, because so many people have the same surname  they generally don't use surnames; it is like that today so presumably it has been that way for a very long time.    To differentiate between families, they used the name of your house or farm.  Thus if William was living at Canolmaes he would most likely be known as  William Canolmaes.   Thus when we lived at Bear House in Trecastle, my husband was known as Mike the Bear.  We always felt rather sorry for a friend of ours who had bought a cottage next to the village public lavatory.  The locals referred to the house as Toilet Cottage (not its real name) and consequently the hapless owner became known as Dai Toilet.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Friday 20 April 12 20:03 BST (UK)
hi gs
 thanks for all the informations one of the baptizms i was unable to read and now im awear of the name its writen very much the same,,
     still waiting for another marriage and birth cert,  but  just received a copy of roots and branches  by T evans,  had a flick through,, very interesting book specially at the beginning where he explains how children are name after grandparent  ,,  the copy of the book is on cd and came from ireland of all places,
   you are right some heaving reading,,
                            again thanks for your help
                                     regards for now rumneywoodchipy
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Friday 20 April 12 21:23 BST (UK)
Roots and Branches can be rather heavy - as someone in Trecastle commented "It reads rather like Genesis in places".  There is, however, an awful lot of useful information in there but as I said before, some of it needs to be treated with a little bit of caution.

Enjoy the reading of it though - as a matter of interest the family I was researching was the Nicholas family, and there is a chapter devoted to them in there.  They are not family, but the house we owned was their home in years gone by.

Regards,
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Tuesday 24 April 12 20:37 BST (UK)
hi gs

† i thought the same that the book was like reading the bible as well, but we could say its the bile of llywell, he has certainly done some research from the area to put the book† together, and some good clues to other parish records,,
† †am i right in thinking that canonmaes is a house name only, reading the book it sounds as if it is a place, it mentioned several times in the chapters im reading,, also is Gilfach a place† south of brecon (roughly) or could this be a houe name,
† † † you said canolmaes was a house in trecastle but i could not find it on google maps i hade a stroll down the main street but couldn,t find the house, any help with what it looks like,† † †as i enter trecastle there is a cafe on the left† †with red 40 mile speed limit on the road,,† † † further up i come to the first row of houses before the bend† on the bend there is Pendre cottage on the right and further round a few farms on the right.
† †coming back in to town there is the pub the castle coaching inn now on my left..† † now most of the small cottages are now on my right is it one of them

† † hope you are well† † †best regards rumneywoodchipy
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Wednesday 25 April 12 16:39 BST (UK)
hi

 no worries have found farm just past llywel church,,
     on the census its spelt with a y in the name,, canolymaes
also spotted a gilfach  this side of trecastle   a road which goes up to a house/ farm it would be more likely to be the gilfach  t. evans is talking about

                   regards all best wishes rumneywoodchipy
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Friday 27 April 12 18:05 BST (UK)
Glad you've managed to find the properties!  Llywel/Trecastle is a really interesting area with loads of history:  the Romans were there and it was from Trecastle that the route over Mynydd Bach Trecastell goes up the 'rhiw' onto the top.  This was used by the Romans extensively (there are the remains of two hill forts up there) and later by the Normans who built a motte and bailey in Trecastle and another smaller one on Mynydd Bach.

I was told that at one time the church and Llywel and the village of Trecastle were separated by a lake; nowadays the area is just marshland.  In those days the families of the local gentry would often be rowed across the lake to the church at Llywel on Sundays.  Makes for quite an idyllic picture, doesn't it.  There is also an interesting 'coffin road' which runs down the slopes of Mynydd Bach to the church at Llywel, and this was used to carry the coffins down from the upper farms to the funerals.  It is incredibly steep so must have been a difficult task.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Saturday 28 April 12 10:42 BST (UK)
annwyl rumneywoodchippy,
Thank you for the details from certificates(£10!!).
Canol(middle)y(the)maes(meadow), often referred to as Canolmaes. From the data you sent I checked my reconstructions=
William Davies bo. 18 Oct. 1858. chr. Dec.11, 1858, Llywel P.Ch.
s/o Rees Davies(1837-1895)=Ann Price(1830-1903)
s/o William Davies(1810-77)=Ann Evans 1834
s/o Rees Davies=Margaret Price 1803
This is my model very much summarised
Garfydd
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Tuesday 01 May 12 14:35 BST (UK)
rumneywoodchippy
I have reconstructed your Davies, Llywel, family using the census returns & the Llywel P.Ch chr. events.  Do we have a problem? The wife gives her birthplace as Onllwyn. Their eldest son William J. aged 14 in the 1891 would have been born ca. 1877. You have a marriage date of 1879? Did you get a birthcertificate for any of the kid? Susannah would be a good one. The dta gives me a niggly feeling.
Garfydd
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Monday 07 May 12 21:29 BST (UK)
hi garfydd hope your well
† † yes just checkd my ancestry site and i came up with the same line as you, i hadn,t come up with a date for rees and marg,t price, did you find her in the parish rcds, you put her christning at 1803,,

† at the moment i only have† the birth cert for my grandmother florence grace 1902
but i agree the birth cert for susannah would be a good one, i am in contact with the grandson of susannah priscilla, the only other relative of the family,, i will contact him and see if he has a cert for her and what the father /mother names† are,, if not will send for one,,

i am on holiday next week in prestatyn but i am taking the long journey via brecon,† llywell,† and onllwyn, have been to these all before nice places,, onllwyn a bit bleak , mineing village,,† roman rd with the onllwyn houses,,

† will post again soon when i can confirm a little more info on the births of william,s children,,
† † it seems strange to me still how williams wife is known as ann in the early days and elizabeth ann in the latter days, will continue with the searching
† † † † †best regards for now rumneywoodchippy
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: rumneywoodchippy on Saturday 02 June 12 21:16 BST (UK)
hi garfydd  hope you are well
   had a fine holiday in wales, had a visit to the regoffice and sorted a few baptisms,,  and sent of for a few birth certs,

   working from the 1891 census, we have

elizabeth a   davies       31       born onllwyn     now at brecon
mary L                            9       
walter r                          7     
david j                            3
ivor h                              10 months
elizabeth g                      10 months

   the parish records lists
  mary louisa  daughter of william and ann of trecastle  and he,s a tailor
may 19th1882
  walter rees  son of william and ann of trecastle   and he,s a tailor
july 4th 1884
  David james son of william and ann of canolmaes  and hes a tailor

the twins are not on the llywell parish record, or i didnt get time to look at 1881 baptism but elizabeth is now living in brecon so might have baptized childrn in a brecon church?

  so i sent of for the birth cert fo mary Louisa, walter rees  and the two twins
remenber we are looking for the difference in the name from ann to elizabeth anne,,   this is the return

  mary louisa was born 22nd march 1882  at trecastle to william davies and
anne davies nee davies     father is tailor
  walter rees was born 3rd march 1884  at trecastle to william davies and
anne davies nee  davies   father is a tailor
 Ivor edgar born 25th june1890 to william davies and elizabeth ann davies nee davies at the street brecknock    father is a tailor
 elizabeth gwendoline born 25th june 1890 to william davies and elizabeth anne davies nee davies  father is a tailor

                 it would seem that after leaving trecastle elizabeth starting using her first name on documents and papers,
                 this could conclude that the ann davies written about in roots and branches  t, evan could indeed be the one and same,
                 also there is no william davies, head, on the census, and there is a william davies visiting his father at canolymaes with a mary ann rewbridge
the head of the house is rees and ann  with william born about 1859 and is a tailor and mary ann rewbridge is a grand daughter
               
         well what are you thoughts on it garfydd, still might need a couple of more baptism and birth certs?
               best regards brian
 
   
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Wednesday 06 June 12 16:21 BST (UK)
Annwyl Rhymneywoodchippy,
I enjoyed your recent mail. Made, as usual, notes. Street Btrecon is probably The Struet-my Aunt Gwen & Uncle Frank lived there in the 1950s. You have enough info to get the marr. cert. for Wm.Davies(s/o Rees both weavers) to an Elizabeth Ann Davies(to get her father's name) But were they marr. near Llywel or Onllwyn, you might to try both but you do have 3 names which would be on the correct cert.? Seventeen children born alive!!! I wil give the burial registers a whirl.
Garfydd.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Garethwj on Wednesday 01 August 12 10:37 BST (UK)
Hi
On my grandmothers birth certificate, it states that she was born at Canolymaes, Traianmawr, in 1901.  Is Canolymaes a farm and if so, who owned it at the time?  Her father was Lewis Price, an agricultural labourer, who may well have lived on the farm.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Wednesday 01 August 12 11:16 BST (UK)
as far as I can recall Canolymaes is a house in the village, will get back to you.
Canol(middle)y(the)maes(meadow)
Garfydd
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: brevitas on Wednesday 01 August 12 16:48 BST (UK)
Hi
On my grandmothers birth certificate, it states that she was born at Canolymaes, Traianmawr, in 1901.  Is Canolymaes a farm and if so, who owned it at the time?  Her father was Lewis Price, an agricultural labourer, who may well have lived on the farm.

See

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,608960.0.html

 :)
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Garethwj on Thursday 02 August 12 13:06 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for this.  It was the breakthrough I was looking for. Lewis Price was my great grandfather, however the only thing I could find through the online records was the record of his death (committed suicide by hanging himself in the hayloft belonging to Ystradfawr farm, Ystradgynlais, where he worked as the farm bailiff, dated 1909).  Obviously dropped the Shute element of his surname, but with that all the rest has fallen into place.
Many thanks to all of you.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Thursday 02 August 12 15:35 BST (UK)
I descend from Rees Price Shute brother of Lewis. Famous family of illeg. Family shared with late Mona Morgan.
Garfydd
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Garethwj on Friday 03 August 12 07:01 BST (UK)
That's amazing. That makes us distant relatives!  I would really appreciate it if you could share your tree on the Shute side.  When you say famous illegal family, what do you mean?  Also, why would Lewis drop the Shute surname?

Gareth
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Friday 03 August 12 10:21 BST (UK)
Anwyl Garethwj
I am not very with computers=can do emails

Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message system to pass such information if necessary.

& google but cannot do "enclosures". A famous family of "illegit"=illegitimates! I have a number of A4 reconstructions for our shared kin. My paternal gd.mother was Elizabeth Thomas(1876-1940), Penyrynys,Cray. Her mother Elizabeth Price(1854-1885 an illegitimate d/o Hannah Charles)=William Thomas.† Her mother Hannah Charles(illegitimate d/o Rachel Charles)=Rees Price Shute and had a few legitimate children. She the d/o Rachel Charles d/o Lewis(a family from Talley, Llandeilofawr,Cmn.) These "Charles/Price" ended up, amongst other places, at Posty, Tygwyn & Penyrynys in Cray, Breconshire. A number then moved to Cadxoton, Longford & Neath.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Garethwj on Saturday 04 August 12 11:35 BST (UK)
Sent from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:

From: Gareth J*
Date: 3 August 2012 11:33:13 GMT+01:00
To: *
Subject: Shute et al
Garfydd
Maybe easier to communicate directly by email.† I have done online ancestry searches on Rees Price Shute, but can find nothing. Do you know who Rees/Lewis parents were?† Were there any other sibings?† What is your relationship to Rees?
Thanks
Gareth

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Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.

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Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Tuesday 07 August 12 15:03 BST (UK)
anwyl Gareth wj
answer to your questions yes, yes. My 3x gt.gd.parents. Lewis Price Shute's widow remarried( a Pritchard off the top of my head) & kept a pub in Llywel.  Her M.I. at Callwen, part vandalized by a relative said not to be too pleased by the second marriage. Yr wyf fi yn byw yn Lloegr.
Garfydd'
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Garethwj on Tuesday 07 August 12 16:20 BST (UK)
Garfydd

Mary Price, my great grandmother did indeed remarry Ivor Pritchard and ran the Three Horseshoes in Trecastle.  I have obtained the birth certificate for Lewis, born 1875 in Pantyfynow, ystrdgunlais, son of Rees Shute and Hannah, formerly Price.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Wednesday 08 August 12 11:31 BST (UK)
Anwyl Gareth wj
I would be interested in the birth cert. details for Lewis bo. 1875 at Pantyfynnon(the spring hollow), Ystradgynlais-Need to check my records as I have a lot of Shute etc. certificates. Hannah on the 1875 birth cert. should be Hannah Charles. I recently had an articled published in Cronicl Powys illustrating how the illegit iss. of Hannah had their surnames altered to conceal the situation=Powell, Williams, Price etc. Hannah, the first child of Elizabeth Charles, was born 20 Dec. 1854, father unknown but we did have a few ideas.  Elizabeth did later(after 4 illegits.) marry Wm. Thomas = my gt. gd.parents.The great mystery/debate is why this family had so many illegitimates-were they a predessor of the current single family phenomena?
The Shutes came from Llanfairarybryn, Rees might be the son of a John
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Garethwj on Thursday 09 August 12 08:33 BST (UK)
There's not much more on the birth certificate other than stating that Rees was a coal labourer.  What is MI?
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Thursday 09 August 12 14:33 BST (UK)
garethwj
M.I.=Memorial Inscriptions. I surveyed approx. 50 graveyards(S.W.Brecs.&N.E. Cmn)  means there is a graveyard stone for yours&mine.
Rees Price Shoot, aged 29=Hannah Price, aged 35(gives father as a Daniel Price=suspect) at Soar Chapel, Trecastle 10 S.,1868.
Do I have this right= issue of Lewis Price Shute
1. Mary Ellen bo 1897=1.Thomas Morgan
                                     2. David Pearce
2. David Rees bo 1898=Olwen Williams,
3. Hannah Blodwen=??????
lived at Treboeth, Swansea, a Jehovah's Witness?
4. Lewis=Mary Ellen Price at Callwen Church 1920,
Can you recall any of this family(young woman aged about 30 & daughter aged about 10) lived ca. 1945-1947 Cardonnel Road, Skewen in part of the house.  One of ours re. my late mother.  Only saw them once and they knew me.
Garfydd
fydd
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Garethwj on Thursday 09 August 12 15:27 BST (UK)
Garfydd

Issue of Lewis Price Shute are correct.  Mary Ellen and David Rees were christened (loose term) Shute as shown in 1901 census, but 1911 census shows them as Price.  Hannah Blodwen Price was my maternal grandmother (died 1979).  She married Ernest Hill (my Mum's father) in 1925.  He died aged 49.  She then married William Williams in 1955 and they lived until their deaths in Skewen.  Lewis Thomas Price (b 1907) was decapitated in a railway accident in 1915.  They were living with their mother, Mary Price (Shute) at Railway Terrace, Ystradgynlais at the time, hence Lewis Thomas had wandered onto the railway line at such a tender age.  A tragic family indeed.  When his father, Lewis Price (Shute) hung himself in October 1909, his wife Mary had not long given birth to the fifth and youngest member of the family, Maggie Ann Price (b 1909).  My mother is still alive, aged 83 (Audrey nee Hill Jenkinson) and lives in Pyle, Mid-Glam.  She is finding all this fascinating. At the age of 11, she was sent by Hannah Blodwen to work for her grandmother (Mary) at the pub for 6 months. To this day, she describes it as slavery!
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: garfydd on Friday 10 August 12 11:19 BST (UK)
garethwj
A quickie. Very interesting email. I lived at 1 Brynsyfi Terrace, 62 Burrows Road, Skewen and had only just left Neath Grammar School in 1955. My father must have known your kin. Did he live close to Coedffranc School, died of a "facial" cancer & worked on the railway? Does Cardonnel Rd. ring a bell? I am going to look and an old address book.
We had a cousin "Gloria" living in Ystradgynlais-rings any more bells.
Garfydd
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Garethwj on Friday 10 August 12 12:14 BST (UK)
Hi Garfydd

Wrong person I think.  My maternal grandfather, Ernest Hill (husband of Hannah Blodwen), died of heart compications in 1950.  The 1911 census shows him as a 10 year old, living with his brother, James (Jimmy), who was 20 and a postman, and his sister, Mary Elizabeth Hill, 22.  They were living at 4 Evans Court, Water Street, Neath.
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Carandalex on Wednesday 22 May 13 08:15 BST (UK)
I have a similar problem with so many Davies.  Not helped as it is pre registration dates.  My g g grandmother was Margaret Davies born circa 1794/96 in Llywell.  Censuses give the date as 1794 in Defynnog, but the Llywell Parish Register in 1821 has her age 25 years at the time of her marriage to Robert Candrick/Kendrick. Of course, in those days there was no mention of parents.  Robert was a shepherd and they seemed to have lived in Losged, Abercamlais, Cwmdu before moving to Tredegar between 1851 and 1861.  I have found 2 entries for Llywell but there are also some Defynnog too.  I would like to trace her parents so am wondering if anyone looking at Davies  has any connection or information.   

Best Wishes
Carol

Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Monday 27 May 13 22:27 BST (UK)
Hello Carol - I have done quite a bit of research on the Candrick/Kendrick family for a friend of mine who is descended from Margaret Davies and Robert Candrick.  I will have to look out the Tree and see if I can find anything  which might help you but I think - if I am right - that I was stumped by the number of the Davies family in the Llywel/Trecastle area.  I did manage to trace Robert's origins to Berwick-upon-Tweed though; my friend's family had always said they had Scottish ancestry through that line but had never previously had any evidence to prove it.

Regards
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Carandalex on Tuesday 28 May 13 09:39 BST (UK)
Hello Greensleeves (?),

Thanks for responding.  I am the g.g.grandaughter of Robert Candrick, g. grandaughter of Rhys and grandaughter of Hannah.  Hannah died when my mother was young, my grandfather remarried, there doesn't seem to have been much contact with the Kendrick family.  I grew up in Wales not knowing that I had all these cousins in the nearby villages, until I started tracing the family. I have now met a few from Fochriw and Brithdir.  I, and my cousin in Tasmania, have traced most of the Candrick/Kendrick side but we have become stuck with Robert.  If you have found anything that links him to Etal/Ford/Berwick on Tweed then I would be very interested to see that information.  We have been unsuccessful at finding him in any parish records.  My branch of the family also believed that the family originated from Scotland.  Apparently, one descendant believed it was Wick, and it wold have been about the time of the highland clearances.  Equally, they could have confused Berwick and Wick, and Berwick on Tweed was, at one time, in Scotland.  If so, they could have been Roman Catholic or even Presbyterian, in which case I don't think they baptized until the children were older.  I have visited both Etal, a tiny but beautiful village, and Ford.  In fact, I have photos on my private tree on Ancestry.  There was once a Presbyterian church in Etal but the Anglican church is a much later addition.  I did try to grave hunt in the parish church in Ford, but it was wet, the grass too long and me not dressed for the occasion!

There is some disagreement within the various branches of whether it was Candrick or Kendrick.  Our branch always believed it was Kendrick.  I have been unable to find the name Candrick in any Scottish clan or names.  I believe they were either Kendrick or MacKendrick, the Mac being dropped when they came to Wales.  At the time they came to Brecknockshire and Tredegar the area was predominantly Wesh speaking, as were the family, according to the census.  There is also no letter K in the Welsh alphabet, so K would have become the phonetic C.  They were also illiterate, siging things by mark, so probably would not have recognised the change.

I would like to know who your friend is, if he/she agrees.  I'm not sure if there is a way that I could message you with my email address.  It could be I already know them!  They may be interested to know that I have recently found the burial place of Robert's son, Robert 1825 -1868. My son lives, just a few miles away, so I hope to visit in the summer.

Back to the Davies of Llywell, I've only just started revisiting this side.  I suppose my best bet is to look at the Davies in Llywell in the 1841 census.  Unfortunately I don't see a Davies as a witness to their marriage and, at that time, father's names weren't recorded on the record.

Hoping to hear if you have a connection to Berwick on Tweed and more family for me to know.

Best wishes

Carol
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Tuesday 28 May 13 20:48 BST (UK)
Hello Carol

Once you have made more than three posts you can send Personal Messages so if you would like to share email addresses, please feel free to PM me.  I could also then tell you the name of my friend;  I will also need to find the notes of my research so I can tell you precisely how she is related but I do know that she still has family living in Tredegar.

I do know that I got the 'Etal' connection from the census returns, as you have too, no doubt.  I also remember that I did extensive checks online on records available in that area, but I don't think I actually managed to pin the birth or baptism down.  However, Berwick-on-Tweed was on the drovers' route and of course it is possible that Robert was born whilst his family were en-route for pastures new and thus were not actually permanently resident in Etal.

Throughout the tree I remember that the name changed between Candrick and Kendrick, and my friend was always of the belief that it was originally MacKendrick or some similar name.

Going on to the Davies family, the problem with the Llywel and Trecastle area is that nearly every family is either Davies or related to the Davies clan, so any research in that area is a bit of a nightmare!

Regards
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Carandalex on Tuesday 28 May 13 21:14 BST (UK)
Hi,

 So this is post 3!  Not sure of how to PM you but I gues all will be revealed!

Best wishes

Carol
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Thursday 30 May 13 12:03 BST (UK)
Hi Carol - I have emailed you the papers relating to my research on the Candrick/Kendrick family.

Regards
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: cathpj on Friday 15 August 14 21:06 BST (UK)
Garfydd
I have only just come about this site.  My grandmother was Mary Ellen Price who married Thomas Morgan and then David Pearce,  buried at Callwen Church. My Mum is Mary Ellens youngest daughter. Sadly, I can't trace the family history back before Mary Ellen and Thomas / David.   Which bit of the family are you from and have you traced back any further ? Would love to hear if so.
thanks
Catherine
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: cathpj on Friday 15 August 14 21:52 BST (UK)
Again replying to Garfydd, it was my grand mothers grave that was defaced, is that the Mary Ellen yu mean and I guess she was from the Shute Lewis strain then ?
Late to this whole family tree thing, trying to pick up !
best
catherine
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: sarah on Monday 18 August 14 11:46 BST (UK)
Hi Catherine,

Welcome to RootsChat. I am sorry but Garfydd email notifications were not working and had bounced back to us, I have changed the email address so hope that this reply finds Garfydd well.

Regards

Sarah :)
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Carandalex on Tuesday 19 August 14 11:46 BST (UK)
Hello,

It's that old Ecclesiastical/ civil parish thing again!  Would Llywel come under Defynnog civil parish?  In the FindMyPast baptismal parish records, how does one know if a marriage occurred in Llywel church or Llanspyddid church in 1821, given that they are in the same parish?  I have a family member married in Llywel parish but census give birth as 1774/1776 Defynnog.

Thanks for your help, once again!

Carol
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Cinders59 on Saturday 22 May 21 20:10 BST (UK)
Hello

Just to say, I have Davies's from llywel and Trecastle
It has been a long road finding all the info 21 years.

Mine are :

William Davies b 1793 outside Brecon accoring to 1841 census, Married to:
Ann Davies b 1798 Llywel. on 11 Dec 1821 Llywel

Children:

Elizabeth b 1821 Trecastle
Ann Davies b 1826 cannot find her after 1841
David Davies b 1832 Trecastle
Thomas b 1834 Trecastle
Mary Davies 22 Feb 1837

William d 17 Jan 1848 he was a weaver:
DEATH: On 17 Jan 1848 at Bishop Town Hamlet of Trianglaes: William age 55yrs a Weaver,died of Inflamation of the Heart with Pleurisy 5 Days certified.
He was living at Tre Esgob Bishops Town Brecon
Margaret Davies was the informant and present at the death,
She was living at Bishop's Town Also.
buried Jan 20th 1848
Abode was Tre-Escob

I do not know who Margaret Davies is.

Mary died 9 Feb 1848 and was buried in Llywel Parish Church

Both William and Mary were buried in The Parish of Llywel

in 1851 Census all the family had moved to Killybebill, Pontardawe Glamorgan except for Ann the child I cannot locate her

The family continued to live in Alltwen Glais Clydach in Glamorgan

I have been unable to find William birth record or where he was born as 1841 census just said born in or out of parish

And have been unable to find Ann senior parents either

Julie


Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Wednesday 26 May 21 21:56 BST (UK)
Hi Julie
The problem with Trecastle is that the majority of families are Davieses.  For this reason the people who live there don't use surnames but are called by the name of their house or farm.  For example when I lived there I lived in Bear House so my family were known as The Bears. My friend who lived nearest to the public loos in the village had the misfortune to be given the surname Toilet Cottage. I love the humour - one guy was known as Dai Bungalow because it was said he had nothing upstairs. ;D
Tre Esgob is the Welsh version of Bishops Town so they are both the same place.  Tre Esgob is part of Trecastle, being the land on the western side of the Login Brook, which at one time was owned by the Bishop of St Davids.   The parish church, St David's, in at the hamlet of Llywel, about two miles west of Trecastle and separate from it.  My mother is buried there.
One other point is that 'Killybebill' is actually Cilybebyll which might help you to find it when searching.

I'll look out my book with notes relating to the Trecastle families and if I can find anything which might be useful for you, I'll let you know.

Regards
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Cinders59 on Thursday 27 May 21 19:41 BST (UK)
Thank you Greensleeves.
That would be great any information,

I did wonder if there is a graveyard, I know there is a big Church but dont think they would have been buried there, and dont know of another grave yard

Julie
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Sunday 30 May 21 21:32 BST (UK)
The graveyard at St David's Church, Llywel is large and most people from Llywel and Trecastle and the outlying farms have been buried there for centuries. There is an ancient 'wake way' or 'coffin road' which comes down from the mountain opposite the church, where coffins of the deceased from outlying farms were carried down for burial in the churchyard.

There is another smaller church at Traenglas which I believe also has burials, and another at Cray.  There are also the chapels, too, where your ancestors could have been buried if they went to chapel. The Traenglas church is interesting because, according to local information, there was a falling-out between the local gentry and the vicar of Llywel, so the gentry removed their support from St David's, and went and built their own church at Traenglas!

Regards
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Cinders59 on Sunday 30 May 21 22:05 BST (UK)
Oh thank you,
On the burial transcripts it just states Burials in the Parish of Llywel
So it would behard to find one, even if they had headstones.

Julie
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Greensleeves on Wednesday 02 June 21 08:58 BST (UK)
I'm still trying to find my book with notes about the various Trecastle/Llywel families, but I do have information on one branch of the Davies family.  They lived at The Bear, Trecastle, where we moved to in the 1980s, it then being called Bear House. It was a former pub, but later used by a stone mason so the gardens were strewn with pieces of stone cherub and half-finished gravestones. It was a lovely place; I wish I still lived there.

The Davies family as they appear at Bear, Trecastle in the 1911 census are:
Thomas Davies, widower, Stone Mason, aged 74 (so born abt 1837), Trallong  (his wife's name was Elizabeth)
William Davies, married, aged 29, Stone Mason, born Trecastle
Harriet Davies, wife of William Davies
Violet Elizabeth Davies aged 7
Thomas Gordon Davies aged 2
David Brychan Davies aged 6 months

I'm wondering if this Thomas Davies is one of those you are looking for?

Regards
GS
Title: Re: Davies of llywell
Post by: Cinders59 on Wednesday 02 June 21 11:25 BST (UK)
Thank you for the reply,

All the family who were still alive arrived in Cliybebyll by 1851 after William and Mary the daughter died in 1848

They were living in Pen Yr Heol in 1841
But cannot find any trace of Ann the daughter.

But thank you for looking up for me
Julie