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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: MissyJ137 on Thursday 19 April 12 02:07 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I've been tracing my ancestors back into Wales and need a little help from some amazing Rootschatter researchers.
My great grandmother Charlotte THOMAS was born in Cardigan and immigrated to Australia in 1869. I just found out that her parents were Evan and Jane THOMAS.
What I know so far is that Evan was listed on her death certificate as Marine Master. I've had a look at the information in the occupations section of R'chat, but realise that I can't find his certificate of competency as I don't know where he was born (as the search result for his name came up with multiple people). I'm guessing he was born in around 1815? as his first child was born in 1840. He doesn't appear on any census records that I've found.
I don't know Jane's surname before she got married, however can see her in the census records living in Cardigan, St Mary's Parish, in 1841, 1851, 1861 and 1871. Her occupation on these is listed as Mariners wife. She disappears from the census data after this and I think that the death I found in 1872 (vol.11b, p.2) is hers.
They had 6 children:
Evan (1840 - ?) - worked as a mariner 1861 census on "Glenroy"
Charlotte (1843-1903)
Jane (1846 - ?) - milliner
Margaret (1849 - ?) milliner
John (1855 - ?)
Marianna (1857 - ?) - milliner
So my big task is to try find:
1. Where and when was Evan born
2. What was Jane's surname before she was married so I can try to find their marriage certificate
3. What was Evan's certificate of compency number so I can find more about the ships he worked on
4. When and where did he die?
5. Their parents names (very unlikely to find it but thought I'd add it as a wish ;D)
Any help will be appreciated as to where I might be able to find this information about Evan and Jane.
Many thanks,
Mel :)
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Charlotte's birth cert would give you Jane's maiden name. Her age on the 2 census entries suggests her birth was a bit before 1843, given that she is enumerated as 9 in 1851 & 19 in 1861. Perhaps this registration?
Charlotte Thomas sept qtr 1841 Cardigan vol 27 pg 37
There's a good site for Welsh mariners
http://www.welshmariners.org.uk/index.php
There's an entry for her brother Evan cc no. 93696, gives his last address as 9 William St. Number 10 is now a holiday let
http://westwalesholidaycottages.co.uk/number-10
I can't see an obvious marriage after civil registration in 1837, nor in the last few years of parish marriages.
:-\
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Thanks Osprey. I've just applied to get a copy and also of her marriage certificate to see if it helps me out with her husband parents details.
Mel
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best & cheapest way if you're ordering from overseas is to order from the GRO which you can do online, assuming you have a credit card of some sort. Cost is £9.25 and includes postage. You'll need the registration district and vol & page numbers I gave you.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
In the UK, it's possible to order from the registrars who now hold the registers. Last time I ordered from Cardigan, they needed an sae which would be difficult from abroad.
It's always a good idea to ask. A poster asked me the same question a few weeks ago and ordered from a commercial site before I'd replied, so paid nearly 3 times the amount!
:o
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Thanks. I ordered them both from GRO and have to wait for them to be posted to Australia. According to their website it should take about 7 days...I'll need to be patient! The conversion from GBP into Australian dollars is similar to what we pay here, so £9.25 isn't too bad.
Charlotte's husband was David Davies. On his death certificate it listed his father John Davies (occupation: miner) and mother unknown. I thought as it's such a common name that I might struggle a bit more about him, hence trying to find Charlotte's family first :)
David was born in Aberayron in 1836.
Mel
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that's not going to be easy! Aberaeron doesn't appear as that on early census records. Think it's covered by Llanddewi Aberarth & Henfynyw. But it's coastal and not really a mining area, although there's mining elsewhere in the county - plenty of lead mining in the Cwmrheidol area
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/Henfynyw/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/LlanddewiAber-Arth/
It's a really pretty place, lots of Georgian buildings painted with strong colours. Think there must be meetings with shade cards as neighbours never have the same colour!
http://www.aberaeron.info/
:D
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Update...
The birth certificate I ordered for Charlotte THOMAS finally arrived today (still waiting on the marriage certificate). It lists the father as John not Evan, occupation sailor :-\. So I'm not sure if it's the correct Charlotte or if her father was a "Evan John" or "John Evan" THOMAS?
If it is the correct certificate, the positive is Jane's maiden name is included...but it's DAVIES, so will not be easy to get any more info. Fingers crossed that the marriage certificate might hold the answers of her father's name.
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think the John is correct. Have a look at the mariners' site and there's an entry for John Thomas born 1810. He died in 1867 , of William Street, Cardigan and probate granted to his widow, Jane.
CC number for him = 47682
His death reg
John Thomas 56 june qtr 1867 Scilly vol 5c pg 225
possible marriage
John Thomas sept qtr 1837 Cardigan vol 26 pg 35 with Jane Davies on the same page
bit more maritime info
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN/MaritimeHeritage.html
;)
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Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at the mariners site and see what I can learn about him :)
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record of his burial
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/more-info/?t=burials&id=1300108
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Update...
David and Charlotte's marriage certificate arrived today. Very interesting! It confirms her father's name was John THOMAS (deceased, a master mariner)and address before marriage was William St, Cardigan.
David is listed as a widower. Profession was Grocer and he lived at Albert Square, Aberayron at the time of marriage. Father is listed as John DAVIES (deceased), a farmer. This might make more sense than his father being listed as a miner on the death certificate.
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is is definitely Albert Square on the cert? There's an Alban Square there.
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Yes it definitely is spelt "Albert Square" on the marriage certificate. I've had a look today but haven't been able to find him in any of the census data. It's also interesting that it's David's second marriage.
I did find a lot of information about the chapel that they married - Bethania Welsh Baptist Chapel. It looks so beautiful! The certificate states that the minister was Evan THOMAS and witness was William EVANS. I couldn't find out much about Evan THOMAS. I wonder if he might be related to the family?
I also ordered John's death certificate and his and Jane's marriage cert to get their father's names.
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There's a mention of Albert Square, Aberaeron in volume 5 of the Journal of the Ceredigion Antiquarian Society. I don't have access to the publication, but it's evidence that the spelling was correct in 1868. It may have changed after the 1900's to be known as somthing else, like Alban?
http://www.ceredigionhistoricalsociety.org/ceredigion-index.php?letter=a
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I'd assumed it was Alban as that was the name of the man who was instrumental in the planning of Aberaeron
http://www.aberaeron.info/history.htm
Evan Thomas isn't uncommon, so I wouldn't assume a relationship. It was my gggrandfather's name, so I've had the joy of searching in Cardiganshire for someone called that.
If the couple were Baptists, you won't find parish baptisms for them. The denomination doesn't practise infant baptism, but Believer's baptism and it would be unusual for names of parents to be mentioned.
http://www.baptist.org.uk/believers-baptism/what-is-baptism.html
I've got Baptists in Pembrokeshire, just across the river from Cardigan.
Welcome to the wonderful world of West Wales non-conformists with common names!
::)
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I received the certificates that I orderd from GRO today. It confirmed John died aboard his ship "Glenroy" in the Scilly Islands.
John and Jane's marriage certifcate shed a little more light on but also brought up more questions about the religion of this family ???
On 10th August 1837 John THOMAS, a mariner married Jane DAVIES, who was (hard to read - looks like seamstrefs) a seamstress. He was living in Bridge-End, father Evan THOMAS was a Master Mariner. Jane was living in (what looks like) Mwldan, father William DAVIES, was a Mariner.
They got married in the Parish Church in Cardigan, which was St. Mary Church (Anglican) by Vica Griffith THOMAS, witnessed by Lavinia M THOMAS & William OWEN.
So, the Welsh Baptist connection might have come through Charlotte's husband's family, rather than hers. I'm wondering if there might be chistening records for John and Jane's children?
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don't let the denomination of the marriage deceive you. From the start of civil registration in 1837, marriages could take place in non-conformist churches, but a registrar had to be present. This was the case until the 1890s. As this is very soon after the start of registration, (July 1st), perhaps they were still thinking in the pre-registration way, when the marriage would have had to be in the parish church.
It will be seamstress. The first s will be a 'long s', can look like f, but it isn't.
http://typefoundry.blogspot.co.uk/2008/01/long-s.html
Bridge End and Mwldan look fine for the addresses. The supports you can see in the photo are against the castle wall.
http://www.cambria.org.uk/HLC/lowerteifivalley/cardigan.htm
Does the cert give their ages? Or is it the less than helpful 'of full age'?
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Yes only said "of full age". Would their birth records be held in the parish church from this time? From death records they are 1810 for John and about 1815 for Jane.
Both their fathers worked on ships as mariners. This might have been how they met.
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not exactly an unusual occupation in the area, plenty of mariners around.
There are no birth records prior to civil registration, only baptisms. Most parish baptisms from the period exist, but as one or other of them could them be non-conformist, it's unlikely that a parish baptism would exist, parish baptisms being Church of England at the time. Cardigan St Mary baptisms are online, but no sign of one for John or Jane, & none for their children.
Have you had a look for the fathers on the Welsh mariners site? There are entries for each name that could fit.
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I saw a couple that would fit Evan THOMAS. They were all Trinity house requests. That's why I thought if I can find birth certs I could narrow it down as the requests included the wife's name.
I didn't have time to look for William last night as it got too late.
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Aberaeron doesn't appear as that on early census records. Think it's covered by Llanddewi Aberarth & Henfynyw.
I found a reference that might possibly be David DAVIES baptism. As his birth should be about 1836, it might be correct as it was for Jan 1837 in Llanddewi Brefi, father was John. Is it possible that's one of the parishes that became known as Aberaeron on the later records?
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No
Llanddewi Brefi and LLanddewi Aberarth are two different places.
Part of Aberaeron is in the parish of Henfynyw and the other in the parish of LLanddewi Aberarth.
There is an Alban Square in Aberaeron and an Albert Street.
alism
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Thanks. I've hit a brick wall with trying to find any further details about him or his parents and thought it was a long shot :(