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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: collier19 on Thursday 19 April 12 12:56 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find the ancestors of John Ford born in Charford in about 1808. He married a Sarah (of the great Unknown family!) and their daughter Fanny Maria Ford married Johannes F Hoffgaard (born in Denmark) in 1848 in Manchester Cathedral. John Ford in the 1851 census was a silk mercer. He had a nephew, Henry aged 21 born in Hall Torrs? and a niece Mary Ann Pepper staying with him.
Any help on the Fords would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
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Fanny Maria married Johannes HOFFGARD in 1872, not 1848. She was born in 1847 and her birth registered in Manchester district, Dec qtr 1847 vol 20 page 701. If you obtain her birth certificate it will give her mother's maiden name. Her baptism took place at Manchester Cathedral 29 Sep 1847. A John FORD married Sarah AGNEW or EGLEY (per IGI transcript) at Manchester Cathedral 1 Sep 1845. I imagine this is because Sarah was a widow so her married and maiden names are quoted. FREEBMD also confirms both names.
The 1861 census shows John FORD's place of birth to be South Brent, Devon, and although Charford is written in 1851, I think it should be Sherford - both Sherford & South Brent are in the South Hams region of Devon.
John FORD's baptism at Sherford is shown here http://www.our4bears.net/parishes/Sherford/Sherford_bap.htm
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John appears to be Unm in 1841 Census;
St Anns Sq, Manchester, Lancs.
John FORD, 30, Draper, NOT born in County
HO107/573/14/Manchester
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Hi
I have a John Ford b 1808 in South Brent son of Henry & Henrietta Mudge (Found on Find my past baptisms South Brent) Residence of Father Charford. John's brother Henry's children were also involved in the silk trade. Hope this helps.
Gaynor
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Hi
Here are the details of that Manchester marriage but it doesn't look right.1.9.1845
John Ford bach Oldham st Labourer s of Joseph labourer
Sarah Agnew or Egley spinster Oldham St William Egley labourer
Wit Ann Penson and Thomas Holland they all made their mark.
Ciderdrinker
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I agree it doesnt look right.
Baptism Oct 1847 not Sept;
Baptism: 22 Oct 1847 St Ann, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Anna Maria Ford - [Child] of John Ford & Sarah
Abode: Manchester
Fathers Occupation: Draper
Baptised by: H. W. McGrath
Think B/C is needed if collier19 doesnt have it by now :)
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I am trying to find who this John and Sarah are. Their son inherited a house and farm in Devonshire from a Ford/Churchill cousin circa 1911/12
quote author=trish1120 link=topic=593371.msg5712298#msg5712298 date=1438087392]
I agree it doesnt look right.
Baptism Oct 1847 not Sept;
Baptism: 22 Oct 1847 St Ann, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Anna Maria Ford - [Child] of John Ford & Sarah
Abode: Manchester
Fathers Occupation: Draper
Baptised by: H. W. McGrath
Think B/C is needed if collier19 doesnt have it by now :)
[/quote]
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat, with the aid of the GRO Index it shows the maiden name of the mother of the child Fanny Maria Ford b Dec qtr 1847 Manchester v20 page 701 was Lambert, there is a marriage of a John Ford to a Sarah Lambert Sept qtr 1845 Rotherham v22 page 392a
This marriage was 16th September 1845 Tinsley, Yorkshire both Bride & Groom aged 21.
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Thank you very much.
I made a mistake, the Devon property was left to a son of Fanny Maria Ford (Hoffgaard) making him a grandson of John and Sarah Ford.
The Yorkshire wedding and ages of bride and groom don't fit?? I understand "my" John and Sarah were married in Manchester Cathedral. Also the census returns for 1851 and 1871 indicate their birthdates of 1808 making them both 37 at the time of their marriage.
I'm now wondering who the younger Yorkshire couple are?
But you are adamant that Sarah's (Fanny Maria's mother) maiden name was Lambert?
Thank you
Hi and welcome to Rootschat, with the aid of the GRO Index it shows the maiden name of the mother of the child Fanny Maria Ford b Dec qtr 1847 Manchester v20 page 701 was Lambert, there is a marriage of a John Ford to a Sarah Lambert Sept qtr 1845 Rotherham v22 page 392a
This marriage was 16th September 1845 Tinsley, Yorkshire both Bride & Groom aged 21.
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Hi yes I can confirm the maiden name of the mother of Fanny Maria Ford was a Lambert, re the marriage, without sight of the parish record I would suggest that the age of 21 represents "21 or over" or Full Age.
The place of marriage, the birth places of both Sarah ( Wath upon Dearne) and the Niece Mary Ann Pepper ( Wentworth ) are all in the Rotherham Registration District.
Keyboard86
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Many thanks, I had guessed that Mary Anne Pepper was her niece because of the Yorkshire origin.
That is a great help.
I must learn how to use this rootschat because I only stumbled across it looking for Fords.
Thank you again
Hi yes I can confirm the maiden name of the mother of Fanny Maria Ford was a Lambert, re the marriage, without sight of the parish record I would suggest that the age of 21 represents "21 or over" or Full Age.
The place of marriage, the birth places of both Sarah ( Wath upon Dearne) and the Niece Mary Ann Pepper ( Wentworth ) are all in the Rotherham Registration District.
Keyboard86
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I'm new to rootschat so really don't know my way around it.
Do you have information on the Ford family or is it that you simply know how to follow leads to research? I am a gt-gt-grandson of John Ford b. 1808 and trying to unravel the Ford family. They claimed (according to my grandmother) to be descended from Fords of Chagford.
A few tips would be greatly appreciated.
Hi
I have a John Ford b 1808 in South Brent son of Henry & Henrietta Mudge (Found on Find my past baptisms South Brent) Residence of Father Charford. John's brother Henry's children were also involved in the silk trade. Hope this helps.
Gaynor
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I've only recently discovered rootschat and thus your post.
I'm a grandson of Eric Hoffgaard, youngest son of Johannes (John) Hoffgaard and Fanny Ford. Have you had success with your Ford researches? If so I would really love to know what you have.
I only know stories, I have many letters from Caroline Churchill (mother was a Ford) and relations of mine have or had many letters from navel members of the Ford family.
I also have a fairly extensive Hoffgaard pedigree if that is of any help to you?
Another person on rootschat has already been a great help to me, plus another old post answers another question.
Very exciting.
I'm trying to find the ancestors of John Ford born in Charford in about 1808. He married a Sarah (of the great Unknown family!) and their daughter Fanny Maria Ford married Johannes F Hoffgaard (born in Denmark) in 1848 in Manchester Cathedral. John Ford in the 1851 census was a silk mercer. He had a nephew, Henry aged 21 born in Hall Torrs? and a niece Mary Ann Pepper staying with him.
Any help on the Fords would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
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Hi again, take my word for it the previous for Sarah Lambert and the niece Mary Ann Pepper has me confused, but nevertheless :-
Henry Ford of South Brent married Henrietta Maria Mudge of this parish 26th April 1804 Dipord by Licence
Witnesses Henry Mudge & Robert Heath
To date these are the baptisms I have located in South Brent with Henrietta using her middle name of Maria:-
Henry 12th April 1805
Thomas 21st May 1806
Henrietta Maria 1st November 1809
William 2nd March 1812 ( Privately baptised)
William 1st December 1813 and Richard 1st December 1813
"For William see the.?? Register"
( Charford is mentioned as abode and Henry occ Yeoman)
These are in addition to that of John
Keyboard86
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Hi again, a couple of interesting Henry baptisms South Brent :-
Henry 24th December 1835 Thomas occ Yeoman residence Charford Mother Mary
Henry Mudge Ford 11th October 1796 Father John Mother Sarah residence Charford
Marriage 1st April 1790 Dipford by Licence John Ford to Sarah Mudge Witnesses Henry Mudge and Thomas Ford
Keyboard86
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Thank you very much.
I'm a little confused and quite overwhelmed, it looks as though there were multiple Mudge marriages with the Fords?
The 1835 baptism of Henry, if he is the same Henry as in Manchester 1851 census, must have been 5 years old at the time. I have come across this before, indeed I have a godson whose christening was forgotten about until he was 20 months old. His father, my uncle, was a local church warden, and was quite embarrassed about it.
Are you related to the Fords because though I know little proved factual information, my grandmother had a considerable amount of Ford "things" sadly now mostly dispersed, I think much sold? But I do remember some of them. I have "some" related material.
My factual knowledge has grown by many 100s% since your help.
For me its so interesting to actually look up the places all these people came from.
Hi again, a couple of interesting Henry baptisms South Brent :-
Henry 24th December 1835 Thomas occ Yeoman residence Charford Mother Mary
Henry Mudge Ford 11th October 1796 Father John Mother Sarah residence Charford
Marriage 1st April 1790 Dipford by Licence John Ford to Sarah Mudge Witnesses Henry Mudge and Thomas Ford
Keyboard86
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Hi again, no I am not related to the Ford family just enjoy helping those who are to trace back!
Have found quite a bit, but due to current time constraints will have to shorten my replies, and leave census returns to you!!
Henrietta M Ford married a William Rowe 23rd September 1828 South Brent by Licence Witnesses John Ford and Henry Ford, Henrietta & William spend their married life in Plympton St Maurice, and Henrietta Maria Rowe was buried 17th December 1877 Plympton St Maurice aged 68
Richard Ford married a Mary Ann Croaker 12th October 1845 Brixton by banns
In 1841/51 Richard has his mother Henrietta M or Maria H Ford b Diptford in household, he is farmer of 145 acres Residing Butlass Village, Brixton, Plympton St Mary
Henrietta Maria Ford was buried 6th October 1857 Plympton St Maurice aged 81
EDIT Henrietta Maria Mudge was baptized 26th April 1776 Diptford Father Henry Mother Mary
Sarah Mudge was baptized 13th May 1768 Diptford Father Henry Mother Mary
You will find in 1861 census with William Rowe and Henrietta M a William H Ford 14 Nephew b Brixton, he was baptized 16th October 1846 born 15th October 1846 Brixton Father Richard Mother Mary Ann Croaker
Keyboard86
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Well thank you I am very grateful.
Your help has opened up the Fords for me. Their very locations, mainly in SE Devonshire and the edge of Dartmoor, are becoming quite vivid.
The Fords seem to be farmers and clearly from what I know connected to Ford gentry, how and how closely I don't yet know. I have three printouts of wills from clearly another branch who would have been gentry, how closely related I don't know. Was the connection as a younger branch, possibly even illegitimate relations. It's familiar ground in my tree, the Beamans and Hulmes were such. In their case as small freeholders of whom many made their livings by also being tenant farmers.
These wills may help but they may also confuse.
John b 1808 does not appear in your list of baptisms, yet the John (also bapt 1808 but in Sherford) cannot be right because parents are stated to be John and Sarah. Also the location is a bit away from Charford, South Brent.
The three Ford wills lead to the Eric Hoffgaard (via Fanny Ford) connection but without explanation except that they were "cousins" (1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th???). They are
1. William Ford of Yeo, Yealmton Devon (where there is a family vault) will proved on or after 1st Feb 1860.
2. Sarah Ford, William's wife. Of Yeo Cottage. Proved 3rd April 1882.
3. Mary Rivers Ford, William and Sarah's daughter, of Mount Vernon, Bridgetown, Berry Pomeroy. How she got Mount Vernon and why (she was blind) I don't know.
She left Mount Vernon plus other properties including some from her father in Plymouth to her 1st cousin Caroline Churchill. Caroline Churchill died circa 1910/11 leaving a lot of her property to Eric Hoffgaard.
Kind regards
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Hi
I have a John Ford b 1808 in South Brent son of Henry & Henrietta Mudge (Found on Find my past baptisms South Brent) Residence of Father Charford. John's brother Henry's children were also involved in the silk trade. Hope this helps.
Gaynor
This is the John Ford baptism 23rd December 1808 Father Henry Mother Maria?
Keyboard86
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Many thanks.
I'm thinking that I need additional memberships, would you have any advice on good sites?
My tree is on MyHeritage but I keep being asked for passwords etc for additional search engines and subs sometimes within the same site. I'm not sure which to follow?
The tree is accurate, though over this Ford research I have been adding in attempts to "catch fish" removing if not confirmed etc. Example: Henry Ford b. 1830 a stated nephew included in 1851 census (trying to pin down his father). My tree does not include cousins, though I try to keep their information separately, spouses and siblings only, to stop it becoming too bulky, this leads onto other linked trees.
There is one possible worry in my tree, post 1800, a direct female ancestor. We know a fair bit about her mother, or perhaps step-mother?
Thank you for using your Find My Past on my behalf. I must learn how to efficiently do searches myself.
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Hi again, a couple of interesting Henry baptisms South Brent :-
Henry 24th December 1835 Thomas occ Yeoman residence Charford Mother Mary
Henry Mudge Ford 11th October 1796 Father John Mother Sarah residence Charford
Marriage 1st April 1790 Dipford by Licence John Ford to Sarah Mudge Witnesses Henry Mudge and Thomas Ford
Keyboard86
Hi again, I do not know which of the siblings of John had a son Henry b c 1830?
Thomas & Mary in 1841 census :-
Charford, South Brent
Thomas 45
Mary 35
John 10
Sarah 8
Henry 5
Census ref HO107/246/ 8/5 / 4
In 1851 census Mary is a Widow, in household a Henry Ford b c 1796 occ Retired Seaman b South Brent and a nephew Robert Ford 5 b London
The only other Henry b c 1830 living in Devon was aged 11 with a possible brother John 13 shown as pupils at Montviders House, Tormoham, Newton Abbot?
Keyboard86
EDIT all the 1851 census gives us is that the Nephew Henry was b c 1830 Hall Tows/Tours, Devon wherever that is?
Thomas Ford aged 17 address Brent Village was buried 16th October 1823
Keyboard86
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Hi again, I do not know which of the siblings of John had a son Henry b c 1830?
Thomas & Mary in 1841 census :-
Charford, South Brent
Thomas 45
Mary 35
John 10
Sarah 8
Henry 5
Census ref HO107/246/ 8/5 / 4
In 1851 census Mary is a Widow, in household a Henry Ford b c 1796 occ Retired Seaman b South Brent and a nephew Robert Ford 5 b London
The only other Henry b c 1830 living in Devon was aged 11 with a possible brother John 13 shown as pupils at Montviders House, Tormoham, Newton Abbot?
Keyboard86
EDIT all the 1851 census gives us is that the Nephew Henry was b c 1830 Hall Tows/Tours, Devon wherever that is?
Thomas Ford aged 17 address Brent Village was buried 16th October 1823
Keyboard86
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The above 41 and 51 census seem to be additional people.
Thomas (aged 45 in 1841) must be an uncle or cousin of John b 1808.
Henry aged 21 in 1851 Manchester census, birthplace Hall Torrs is quite close to South Brent.
I'm going to have to do more searching.
Thank you very much
All best
Roland