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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: maesyseren on Thursday 19 April 12 23:11 BST (UK)
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I am intrigued by this family - it seems to me that some of the names suggest a possible Jewish history?
Roger Lissaman b. 1555
Isobel Milles b.1561
Children recorded at Wolston, Warwickshire:
Katherine Lissaman 1584
Elizabeth Lissaman 1586
Josiah Lissaman 1588
Liddia Lissaman 1591
Elvathan Lissaman 1594
Alice Lissaman 1598
Abraham Lissaman 1602
Elias Lissaman 1604
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Seems unlikely - Jews were expelled from England in 1290 and there was no Jewish presence until at least the mid-17th century.
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It's possible they were descendants of Jews but not Jewish themselves.Old Hebrew names were popular up to the 20th. C.
At this time in history being anything other than C of E would have been extremely dangerous.
Although it sounds foreign I believe it's Anglo-Scottish.
jim
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There were Sephardic Jews in London prior to the mid-17th century, but they were mostly merchants from Portugal and would have kept their Jewishness very quiet. However, this family do seem to be English, the surname LISSAMAN certainly isn't Sephardic. Biblical names were quite fashionable, or they may have been non-Conformists.
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Thank you for the replies, I was just thinking that what is said makes perfect sense, but then whilst rummaging for the surname on Google I came across this family tale which I was unaware of. The two brothers I believe are said to be silversmiths. Not sure what to make of it, maybe the family had no Jewish origins, but did arrive from Eastern Europe at some point. I also read that the name had been found in old German records. Brain full of question marks now, will sign off and ponder .......
'Some of my ancestors were LISSAMAN's from Wolston, Ryton-on-Dunsmore and elsewhere in Warwickshire. In the 1800's a lot of them were carpenters, joiners or involved in the building trade..................... The oral history handed down in the LISSAMAN family was that two brothers came to England from Eastern Europe. They may have been Jews. One settled in Birmingham and one in Coventry - these are the two places where most can now be found. The 1881 census for the Uk has only 209 LISSAMANs including, variants, and the 1901 has a similar number. LISSAMAN is not an English name. It looks like if the story is true then they came to England before 1700.'
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post2;start=0;board=38
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LISSAMAN is an Anglo-Scots name http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Lissaman It's a variation of Leishman, a name I have in the Scots branch of my family - and they definitely were not Jewish.
Also, as in stated in my earlier post, the Jews who were in England at that time did not come from Eastern Europe, they were Sephardic and generally had Mediterranean names. (My own branch came from Italy and were called Todero before they Anglicised their name) Jews with northern European names who came from eastern Europe are Ashkenazi and they didn't emigrate here until the 18th/19th centuries.
I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but it would be a shame if you were searching down completely the wrong avenues.
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Sorry this is OT but - maesyseren Just had a look at your previous posts and noticed you were asking about the name HERITAGE. I have Heritage ancestors, and yes, they were boat people :D Don't recognise any of your names though, but mine came from Stratford and Birmingham.
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I had a look at the surname distribution map for the 1891 census for the Lissaman surname, and it seems they do indeed live only in the Coventry and Birmingham areas, with the exception of a few in London and Kent. They don't appear anywhere else, which is curious - would have expected to see a presence in Scotland.
I was interested to hear of your Heritage ancestors, thank you for mentioning it, prompted me to have another look at my Heritage line - discovered that I had got part of it wrong, but also found a boatman :). Joseph Heritage was born at Kineton in 1781 (not 1771) and his parents were not Judah and Mary - they were Charles and Sarah Heritage, also from Kineton. Josephs occupation is given as boatman on the baptism records of his children. I think his wife Elizabeth Rayson b.1782 may have sadly died in childbirth as her burial at Bedworth in 1820 takes place on the same day as the baptism of her son William. Williams burial is recorded a year later. They had two other sons; Joseph b. 1813 (in my line) became a carpenter and Richard b.1816 became a boatman. I have also found a baptism record for another son named Joseph born in 1811 and wonder if he died in infancy, but can find no further records of him.
I notice that Kineton is not far from Stratford so there may be a connection between our Heritage families.
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In Essex I have found some Levi surnames. Like your Lissaman they may not have had Jewish ancestors but it was just an English surname variant of the Levi firstname.
I have Abel ancestors and doubt they were of Jewish origin but as said an English surname adopted from the Hebrew firstname.
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maesyseren
in case you are interested and don't already know there are still Lissamans living in Wolston. I lived next door to one family as a child
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Hi,
Roger Lissaman was my 9th great grandfather, his son Josiah my 8th. I most definitely can trace a long line of Lissaman's in Wolston and Ryton-on-Dunsmore... I initially thought it sounded jewish too but from the research I did I agree with what the others say - anglo scottish.
~ Jo
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welshsewer, it's nice to know that there are still Lissamans in Wolston :)
aeracura, Josiah is in my line too, the generations are then Thomas, another Thomas, William, Benjamin, Edward, James, Charles, my grandmother.
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Hi :)
My line is Roger, Josiah, Thomas, William, Benjamin, Sarah, then another five generations before me :)
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That's strange - I seem to have an extra Thomas in the line ..... :D
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That would be because your second Thomas is my William's brother and that they tended to use the same names from generation to generation :)
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Hello,
I'm new to RootsChat and came upon this thread while googling my Jewish REST family. I specifically wanted to address this to kateblogs so I hope she sees this.
The REST family were of Sephardic origin and were living in England after being booted out of Spain or Portugal during the Inquisition. The earliest knowledge I have of this family name is in Lithuania where they were living in the early 1700s. The story is that they were invited to move Lithuania by the nobiity who were interested in their expertise in the flax and linen industry. I have had no luck finding this family in England and I do not know if the REST name was acquired there or after leaving. I was wondering if kateblogs might have an idea on how I might research this? I do find many REST families living in England-- none Jewish-- but how would I know if they were hiding the fact. There was an interesting REST family in Leeds or thereabouts-- biblical names *and* a child named Oliver Cromwell Rest. I thought this was interesting since Oliver Cromwell was instrumental in "legitimizing" Jews in England for a time.... Thanks for this forum!!
:)
<<There were Sephardic Jews in London prior to the mid-17th century, but they were mostly merchants from Portugal and would have kept their Jewishness very quiet. However, this family do seem to be English, the surname LISSAMAN certainly isn't Sephardic. Biblical names were quite fashionable, or they may have been non-Conformists. >>
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Hi Yoellie - sorry it's taken me a while to reply. I'm not familiar with the resources for Lithuania, so can't offer any useful advice about searching in that area. However, there is a mailing list for Sephardic genealogy here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SephardicForum/, and JewishGen http://www.jewishgen.org/ has lots of free databases you can search. I've just done a search for REST in Lithuania at JG, and it turned up 344 results!
If you haven't already it's well worth learning a bit about Sephardic culture, naming practices and so on. And also to remember that the name your ancestors were known by in England may be different to the one they originally had; so your Rests might have had a longer, more 'Spanish' sounding name at some point.
Sorry I can't be more help, good luck with your search!
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This might be nothing,but i have a strong intrest in Romany culture,and the name Lissimen rang a bell in my head.
I have a book of Romany photographic compilations and amongst them is a Lissimen family in an old fashioned bow top wagon pictured at Stow Fair in 1993.
Romany folk also favoured biblical names,and the first Roma arrived on these shores from Europe c mid 1500s.
Roma and Jewish culture share a lot of similarities.
Just a thought.
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Hi
My son (aged 14) has been asking me about our Family history and so I recounted to him the aural history from my Mum's side - she was a LISSAMAN - of two brothers coming from Eastern Europe and settling in Birmingham and Coventry - they were silver smiths. So I think that I am the source of the information that you found on Google.
The Romany info is interesting as the LISSAMAN's seem to be happy to travel. My LISSAMAN ancestors from the west midlands emigrated to USA, CANADA, AUSTRALIA and NEW ZEALAND.
In an attempt to identify the place from where they emigrated to the UK I came across this town in Poland:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leszno
I think its name of LISSA is post the emigration date so probably not relevant.
Regards
Mark
Thank you for the replies, I was just thinking that what is said makes perfect sense, but then whilst rummaging for the surname on Google I came across this family tale which I was unaware of. The two brothers I believe are said to be silversmiths. Not sure what to make of it, maybe the family had no Jewish origins, but did arrive from Eastern Europe at some point. I also read that the name had been found in old German records. Brain full of question marks now, will sign off and ponder .......
'Some of my ancestors were LISSAMAN's from Wolston, Ryton-on-Dunsmore and elsewhere in Warwickshire. In the 1800's a lot of them were carpenters, joiners or involved in the building trade..................... The oral history handed down in the LISSAMAN family was that two brothers came to England from Eastern Europe. They may have been Jews. One settled in Birmingham and one in Coventry - these are the two places where most can now be found. The 1881 census for the Uk has only 209 LISSAMANs including, variants, and the 1901 has a similar number. LISSAMAN is not an English name. It looks like if the story is true then they came to England before 1700.'
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post2;start=0;board=38
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Hi
My LISSAMAN line starts with Thomas (1629-1711 of Brandon), Thomas (churchwarden 1718 Wolston), William, Benjamin, Edward, James (m Eliza HERITAGE), and then Thomas H (my Great grandfather)
Hi :)
My line is Roger, Josiah, Thomas, William, Benjamin, Sarah, then another five generations before me :)
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Hi - James LISSAMAN Eliza HERITAGE are my GG grandparents and your great grandfather Thomas H was the brother of my great grandfather Charles Arthur, whose daughter was my grandmother. I think your Mum's account of the two silversmith brothers is fascinating, and it's interesting to see that Warwickshire is still mostly where the surname is found. Also interested by the idea of a Romany connection, although these Lissamans seem very settled in Wolston for several generations.
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Hi not sure if anyone is still reading this but I am a Lissaman from the Wolston area (well Rugby).
I can tell you that our surname is not Jewish and links back to 7th century England, the Lissaman branch actually comes from Rugby and spreads out from there. The reason it is known in Wolston is because of my branch of the family (fathers side) were all brought up in Ryton, it was a large family with a unique surname (I am the only Lissaman with my first name and from what I have searched there has never been another with it, it is also a fairly common name).
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Hi Lissaman
Yes I'm still reading the thread.
Thanks for posting. Always good to hear from another Lissaman, especially one that is still in the original area. I'd be very interested in hearing more about the history of the family pre 17th century. My great x6 grandfather Thomas Lissaman was buried in Ryton on 29 Dec 1750.
Regards Mark
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Hi - still reading too and would also be interested to know more of the history of the family :-)
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There were Lissamans in Stoke. Coventry at least until the 1970s. They were Non-Conformists.
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Hi
I've never posted before but was doing a search for my grandmother, Gladys Lissaman who lived in Coventry. We didn't know the origin of the surname but it appears to feature heavily in the Coventry area and surrounds. The family were stonemasons and other trades. Be good to know any more about the name. Thanks for posting about Lissaman as I live in Australia now and have never heard the name outside West Midlands.
Kat
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For Kateblogs — I read w/ interest your family was originally Todero from Italy. My mother’s maiden name is Todaro and her family is from Licata, Sicily. There are Todaros throughout Sicily and they are rumored to be of Spanish descent.
Do you think the Toderos and Todaros are one and the same? If so, do you have any additional information?
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That is interesting! I've never been able to place my family in Sicily, but there's evidence to suggest that is where they originated. It's seems likely the names are variations of each other - and would be variations of a much older name, Todros. The Spanish link is also interesting because variations of those surnames appear in databases of Jewish names in medieval Spain; it would also fit with what I know about the history of Judaism in the region. I haven't been able to make any connection with my people though.
Have you done any research into your mother's family?
For Kateblogs — I read w/ interest your family was originally Todero from Italy. My mother’s maiden name is Todaro and her family is from Licata, Sicily. There are Todaros throughout Sicily and they are rumored to be of Spanish descent.
Do you think the Toderos and Todaros are one and the same? If so, do you have any additional information?