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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: GeorgeRP on Saturday 21 April 12 23:32 BST (UK)

Title: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Saturday 21 April 12 23:32 BST (UK)
Hi All


Would someone please be able to find the birth date of an Nella 'Wendy'  Agnes Wendlandt, born in South Yarra Victoria circa 1900-1910.

Her parents were Bernard Wendlandt & Helen Gill.

Regards


George
Title: Re: Nella 'Wendy' Agnus Wendlandt
Post by: cando on Saturday 21 April 12 23:43 BST (UK)
Nothing from 1890 to 1920 in Vic.

Cando
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus Wendlandt - Victoria
Post by: Robert Coble on Sunday 22 April 12 01:03 BST (UK)
Hi All


Would someone please be able to find the birth date of an Nella 'Wendy'  Agnes Wendlandt, born in South Yarra Victoria circa 1900-1910.

Her parents were Bernard Wendlandt & Helen Gill.

Regards


George
Did  Nella 'Wendy'  Agnes Wendlandt, Marriage, where .who .when cause not record of this girl. Was her father in the music at all? nothing on the roll on her.
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus Wendlandt - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 03:33 BST (UK)
There is digitised Naturalisation document for HELEN WENDLANDT which contains a good deal of information about her.

I think she will be the HELEN (GILL?) you refer to.

At the time of application, 1914 she is working at PARADISE VALLEY Vic, as the proprietor of a Convlescent Home and does not mention a husband, though she is married.

She states she has no children

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/using/search/

Sue

PS I should add that I do not know why she applied for Naturalisation as she is a natural born British Subject, born Sussex ???
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus Wendlandt - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 03:49 BST (UK)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11641260?searchTerm=wendlandt&searchLimits=l-title=13|||l-category=Family+Notices

This notice commemorating their Silver Wedding anniversary gives the former name of HELEN as DOSWELL

Friday 22 December 1911

Sue

Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus Wendlandt - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 03:53 BST (UK)
She died in 1946


WENDLANDT Helen Janet
Father Doswell
Mother Unknown  UNKNOWN
Death Place EMERALD
Age 92
Year 1946
Reg Number 20713

Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus Wendlandt - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 04:04 BST (UK)
Dr BERNARD WENDLANDT departed Australia for Germany in 1913

WENDLANDT B MR aged 40 per KONIGIN LUISE II date DEC 1913 BREMEN VIA PORTS DEC 1913 001.

There was an article about his mother in a South Australian newspaper in 1927 which mentions him as living in GERMANY "still  ::)".

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/55040758?searchTerm="bernard wendlandt"&searchLimits=

This item  mentions BERNARD in 1927.

I think there was a parting of the ways between HELEN and her husband.

Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 04:32 BST (UK)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11585050?searchTerm=wendlandt&searchLimits=l-title=13|||l-category=Family+Notices

A marriage notice on Tuesday 4 January 1887. The date of the service seems to be 22nd DEC

A marriage registered in 1886

WENDLANDT August Heinrich
DOSWELL Helen Janet
His Birth Place SOUTH AFRICA
Year 1886
Reg Number 6920

Cannot explain the discrepancy between the registered given name of the groom and the name of the groom given in the newspaper.

Sue
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 04:42 BST (UK)
The identity of this person FRANZ, needs further research ???

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22331530?searchTerm=wendlandt&searchLimits=l-title=13|||l-category=Family+Notices

Death notice for HELEN mentions her loving son FRANZ etc.. Monday 9 September 1946


In Memoriam placed by her son FRANZ of Clematis. Argus Tuesday 9 September 1947

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/22506188?searchTerm=wendlandt&searchLimits=l-title=13|||l-category=Family+Notices

Sue


Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: Raylen on Sunday 22 April 12 05:40 BST (UK)
The identity of this person FRANZ, needs further research ???
Sue

From http://www.naa.gov.au/
Service Record for Franz WENDLANDT
There is a letter from Helen Wendlandt dated 12-7-1915
" I hereby give my consent to my adopted son enlisting
Born name - Sydney McIntyre  Age 19  Born 9-4-1896"

Possible birth
MACINTIRE  Sydney
1896  Melbourne South
Father: Unknown   other:  Florence Macintyre
Reg#13307

Raylen


Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Sunday 22 April 12 05:43 BST (UK)
Australian Electoral Roll
1909
WENDLANDT Bernard  Menzies Creek  Musician
WENDLANDT
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 05:44 BST (UK)
When FRANZenlisted for ww1 he was 19 years old (DOB 9/4/1896)
He described HELEN as his "adoptive mother " and Next of Kin.

His father, he said, is German and had left the country.

In 1963 FRANZ was living in Brisbane and has perhaps changed his name to FRANK.

The digitised file contains a note of Consent from Helen for her adopted son to enlist.

Sue

Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Sunday 22 April 12 05:45 BST (UK)
Oh dear....don't know what happened there

Australian Electoral Roll
1909
WENDLANDT Bernardt  Menzies Creek  Musician
WENDLANDT Helen  Menzies Creek   HD

Cando
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 05:47 BST (UK)
Sorry Raylen, I missed the bottom of page 1 where you already described the ww1 papers.

Sue
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 05:51 BST (UK)
It would be a help if the OP could let us know where the information about NELLA comes from

Sue
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 06:15 BST (UK)
This must be Nella's marriage


WENDLANDT Nella
To VINCENT Cyril
Registration Year 1928
Registration Number 4327
 

Sue
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: regross on Sunday 22 April 12 08:54 BST (UK)
Hi

Found a reference to person who may possibly be a child of Franz in the Ryerson index
http://www.ryersonindex.org/

WENDLANDT Tadeusz Marian aged 90  late of Sandgate Masonic Care
Funeral notice in the Courier Mail (Brisbane) 01JAN2011  EST YOB 1921

Bernard WENDLANDT was from Adelaide according to the mariage notification in Trove

An ELLEN DOSWELL  birth was registered in Southhampton in 1845 which matches closely with her age in the trove notification
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
regards

Robyn
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 22 April 12 09:37 BST (UK)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/7239937

Nella Wendlandt passed Grade 5 music in 1913 in Victoria

After she married CYRIL ROYDEN VINCENT, they lived in Ballarat and he was a grocer while she attended to HD's.

They lived in Wilmot, Tasmania in 1949.  CYRIL was born in 1902 in Queenstown,Tasmania.

When he enlisted for ww2, his next of kin was NELLIE

In 1963 NELLA enrolled to vote living at Malla Av, Robinvale Victoria.  She is the only one of the surname at that address 

Sue

Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 23 April 12 11:09 BST (UK)

Thankyou all for your information.


I have been overdoing it [gardening], and fell and hurt my back.

I apologize for not responding earlier, and will digest all the information given, and will summarize all the details on hand, and report back.


Thanking-you all again.


George



Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 23 April 12 11:48 BST (UK)
Hi every-one, I'm back again.

Most of the information posted thus far is correct, and of help.

When 'Nellie's husband  [Cyril Roy Vincent],  died in 1959, Nellie must have returned to Victoria to live.  Upon her death in 1991,  she was taken back to Tasmania to be buried with her husband at Carr Villa Cemetery in Launceston.

From family tree sources, they had three children, 1 female 2 male.

I cannot name them, as they may still be alive. If you would like that information, and think their names maybe of help,  please contact me on my P.M. Box.

The information given so far still does not give a birth date of Nellie, but at least It confirms  that  family, had links in Victoria, which gives me more scope to work with.

Cheers


George


P.S.   Nellie and Cyril married in Clifton Hill in Victoria, 5th March 1928
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Monday 23 April 12 12:39 BST (UK)
Your original post with its query asked for help to find the birth date of NELLA..... WENDLANDT.

Some obvious questions and some documented information  have emerged during the search.

From where, please, did you get the information that her mother's name was GILL.  (What is the documentary evidence please ?)

 Is it from her death certificate in 1991? Please can you give details of informant if so.

Have you noted in the thread's information that HELEN states she has no children.

Franz was clearly adopted.

Therefore, it appears, so was Nella.

Sue



 
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 23 April 12 23:35 BST (UK)

Hi Sparrett,

Thank-you for your mail.



The name Helen Gill came from Nella & Cyril's Marriage Certificate. No: 4327/1929.

It seems that Bernard was deceased at the time of Marriage, which may indicate she re-married.

Other than that, I have very little information, on Nella's family. [Plenty of Information on the Vincent side].






Regards


George
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 24 April 12 00:57 BST (UK)
It seems that Bernard was deceased at the time of Marriage, which may indicate she re-married.


No,
A close reading of the information so far provided in your thread will show the Death of HELEN JANET WENDLANDT in 1946.  If her name was still WENDLANDT she did not re-marry.

Reply #6 if you click on and read the link tells that Bernard WENDLANDT's mother says he is alive in Germany in 1927.

It is quite possible he died between 1927 and the 1929 marriage of NELLA, but it may have beeen more convenient to state "deceased" in any case.

An advertisement in Argus 1915 placed by MADAME WENDLANDT (Helen) indicates that he left without making provision for her and she needed to make her own livliehood

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/1496723?searchTerm="wendlandt" +divorce&searchLimits=

Are you able to answer my question regarding the informant on the 1991 Death Certificate?

Sue
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sydney researcher on Tuesday 08 May 12 15:30 BST (UK)
I have been astonished to find this thread, as I have a personal interest in the Wendlandt name. I am from Sydney

My grandmothers' sister, Gertrud Winkelmann, was a well known opera singer in Melbourne in the first decade of the 20th century. She was a student of Herr Bernard Wendlandt. There are many articles (found in Trove) about her concerts in Melbourne, under his musical direction.

What i know is that Gertrud travelled, alone,  to Leipzig, Germany, in 1912, to further her studies. Bernhard Wendlandt travelled to Germany about a year later, in 1913, to join her.  Reports were that she was well received in Leipzig. They were definately having a relationship. Family story is that they got married in 1914, in Germany, however I have no confirmation of this.

I was unaware that Bernard Wendlandt had apparently left behind a wife and family. Gertrud died in Berlin in 1919 from the world flu pandemic. Thery had a daughter, Helga Wentlandt, who was born in Germany during the war. She visisted Australia many years later with her daughter, but all contact was later lost, no idea what happenned to her or her daughter.

There is some fascinating info in this thread which i will study, however there seems to be some discrepancies with some of the info posted in this thread. If Bernard was age 40 in 1913 , then he would have been born about 1873. So difficult to believe he got married in 1886, he would have been only age 13. I am going to do some further digging to check/verify some of the info in the thread above.

Ther photo attached is of their daughter Helga Wentlandt, born in Germany during WW1. And also Gertrud Winkelmann
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sydney researcher on Tuesday 08 May 12 15:35 BST (UK)
Gertrud Winkelmann , 1913, Germany
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Tuesday 08 May 12 16:06 BST (UK)
Hi

Welcome to rootschat :)

I would suggest their is an error with Bernard's age on the outgoing passenger record.  I understand that the writing on many of the manifests were almost illegible and some in poor condition.

Search for his arrival in 1856 as an unassisted immigrant at Melbourne.
http://prov.vic.gov.au/index_search?searchid=23

From another resource
Mr B WENDLANDT  30 years  Arrived 30 May 1856 on the GARONNE Departed London  Nationality Foreigner

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sydney researcher on Wednesday 09 May 12 03:30 BST (UK)
Dear Cando

Thank you so much for that information. Yes I am new here, it overwhelms me how so many researchers are willing to help out, I hope I can return the favour.

My main interest is more about Bernhard Wendlandt. I know the original query on this thread was finding the birth of Nella Agnes Wendlandt.

It saddens me he appeared to have abandoned his first family. None of my family knew this.

Ive checked that immigration index link you highlighted, the date is June 1886 that Bernhard Wendlandt arrived in Melbourne per Garonne, age 30, not 1856. This date also matches other records of the Garonne that sailed from London, via Sydney, to Melbourne. So in summary, what we know about Bernhard Wendlandt is:

(1) born about 1856, place yet unknown
(2) arrived Melbourne June 1886 age 30, per Garonne, from London.
(3) Had studied at Liepzig University (Germany) and graduated as Doctor of Music
(4) Married 22 Dec 1886, Helen Doswell, at the German Church, Eastern Hill. (per TRove silver wedding notice 22 Dec 1911)
(5) was living with his wife Helen (and family) as late as 1909, in "Menzies Creek".
(6) Left Melbourne in late 1913, for Germany, to meet up with my great-aunt, the opera singer Gertrud Winkelmann, who had travelled to Liepzig, Germany, from melbourne, in late 1912.
(7) Married Gertrud Winkelmann in 1914, in Berlin, produced a daughter Helga Wendlandt during the war 
(8) in 1927, was working and teaching in Germany as a Professor of Music


To Sparrett: you mentioned above "An advertisement in Argus 1915 placed by MADAME WENDLANDT (Helen) indicates that he left without making provision for her and she needed to make her own livliehood".

I have checked very carefully that link, done my own Trove search, and cant find that reference. I can only find an advertismenet for her convalescent home. Any chance you can re-post that link or reference? 

Thankyou !!


Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sydney researcher on Wednesday 09 May 12 03:38 BST (UK)
Oakleigh Leader, 1897
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Wednesday 09 May 12 08:47 BST (UK)
I suggest you read replies#6 and 7 including the links.

You have missed quite a lot information.

Lots of snippets on TROVE.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: regross on Wednesday 09 May 12 09:15 BST (UK)
Hi,

I have been re-reading this thread.
some ideas

I feel we have two people
1) Helen Wendlandt nee Doswell
2) Nella Vincent nee Wendlandt

Supposing that Nella could the adopted daughter of Helen and Bernard? Given that she gives her mothers maiden name as Gill on the marriage certificate  has anyone looked for a birth of a Nella/ Helen/Helena/Ellen GILL?

regards

Robyn

Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Wednesday 09 May 12 11:41 BST (UK)
Hi everyone,

In answer to regross. There is a Nella Gill born 1921, in Tasmania.  Twenty years out I'm afraid, as my  Nella was born in 1902.

Regards

George
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Saturday 12 May 12 06:49 BST (UK)
Hi Sydney Researcher

Hopefully this will help you  :)

Bernard attended St Peter's College Adelaide. 
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8w/
Prize for German writing 1876
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8j/

As Sue as mentioned
Quote
Cannot explain the discrepancy between the registered given name of the groom and the name of the groom given in the newspaper.

I wonder if he had a third or even a fourth given name which wouldn’t be shown on the index

WENDLANDT—DOSWELL.—On the 22nd ult., at the German Church, Fitzroy, Helen, daughter of the late James Doswell, Esq., London, to Bernhard Wedlandt, of Adelaide.

Marriage
WENDLANDT August Heinrich born South Africa
DOSWELL Helen Janet  Born Sussex
1886  Reg#6920

This certificate would confirm it was Bernard as his parents names are mentioned in this newspaper item published in 1927
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8g/

Images of certs can be purchased online and immediately downloaded
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

Information on all certs in Victoria
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,373754.0.html

Quote
arrived Melbourne June 1886 age 30, per Garonne, from London.

Arrived Melbourne on the GARONNE June 1886 but continued to Adelaide  [apologies for the typo with the year]
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8h/

Helen also arrived on the GARONNE according to application for naturalization dated 1914…but why would she need to apply for a naturalization, she was born in England in 1861
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=31169&S=1&T=R

DOSWELL H Miss 20 years arrived in May 1886 on the GARONNE Port B Fiche 467 Page 012

Return trip to Melbourne from Adelaide Dec 1886
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8u/

Bernard was back in Tasmania in 1927
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0m8t/

Cheers
Cando



 


 
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: regross on Saturday 12 May 12 10:17 BST (UK)
looking at the dates again trying to sort it out in my mind:

It is NELLA WENDLANDT whose birth we are trying to establish est at 1902

It seems Nella's birthdate is some 14 years after the marriage of Bernard and Helen in 1886 .

At the date of Nella's birth Helen would have been
36 if aged 20 as the shipping records and naturalisation records suggest
Quote
DOSWELL H Miss 20 years arrived in May 1886 on the GARONNE Port B Fiche 467 Page 012
  this of course may be a mistranscription of 40

Quote
Helen also arrived on the GARONNE according to application for naturalization dated 1914…but why would she need to apply for a naturalization, she was born in England in 1861
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=31169&S=1&T=R

can find no appropriate birth in Sussex in 2 years either side of 1861.

or 57 if the following are correct:

Quote
An ELLEN DOSWELL  birth was registered in Southhampton in 1845 which matches closely with her age in the trove notification

which agrees with her age at death making it highly unlikley that she is Nella's birth mother.

Quote
WENDLANDT Helen Janet
Father Doswell
Mother Unknown  UNKNOWN
Death Place EMERALD
Age 92
Year 1946
Reg Number 20713

I really do think that Nella may be adopted also; in light of the  above and the following:

Quote
When FRANZenlisted for ww1 he was 19 years old (DOB 9/4/1896)
He described HELEN as his "adoptive mother " and Next of Kin.

finding an illegitimate birth 1901-1903 which could be in any state of Australia will be time consuming but Tasmania, Victoria and Qld may be the best choices with Gill or variations  or MacIntyre (Franz'z birth name) of the name a good starting point.



Robyn
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Sunday 13 May 12 08:40 BST (UK)
Helen Janet WENDLANDT stated in 1914 she had no children however we know she adopted one, her son Franz.  I suggest she also adopted Nella born c1900. I think there would have been birth notices in the Argus if Helen and Bernard had children.  Bernard featured regularly and Helen is also mentioned at functions...including a description of her clothes, which was the norm for that era.   There so few WENDLANDT’s in Aus in this period and only one Bernard/t.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0mdn/
WENDLANDT-DOSWELL.-[Silver Wedding.]-On  the 22nd December, 1886 by Pastor Herlitz. German church, Eastern Hill, Bernard Wendlandt, musician, to Helen, daughter of the late James Doswell, London. Present address-Kooree, Paradise Valley

The following is speculative research based on the father’s name in the above notice.

The 1886 marriage certificate would be useful but the index states she was born Sussex and there aren’t many DOSWELL’s in Sussex. 

1861 Census RG9/587/11/26
Living at Priory Street, Lewes, Sussex
DOSWELL James Head Married 37 years  Engineer in steam packet  Born Romsey, Hampshire
DOSWELL Jane  Wife  Married  26 years  Born Dublin, Ireland
DOSWELL Maria  Dau  6 years  Scholar  Born St Helier, Jersey
DOSWELL Ellen Dau  4 years   Born Newhaven, Sussex
DOSWELL James Son  1 year  Born Southwick, Sussex

I cannot find Ellen on the 1871 but note there was a death of a Jane Maria DOSWELL  at Lewes in 1863. ?death of her mother and bearing in mind the 2/3 year gap from the birth of son James, possibly in childbirth. 

Deaths Sep  1863
DOSWELL Jane Maria   Lewes 2b93

Fortunately not many DOSWELLS in England…this could be her father
Deaths June 1876
DOSWELL James  50 years St. Olave 1d152

1881 Census  RG11/445/93/20
Living at The London Hospital,
37 & 38 Alie Street, Whitechapel
DOSWELL Ellen  21 years  Hospital Nurse  Born Newhaven, Sussex

On the 1881 census her elder sister Maria 26 years born St Helier, Jersey Islands is a domestic servant living at  Fenwich Road  Camberwell – so that places her along with her father in London [1911 anniversay notice]

I would suggest this is Maria’s marriage however she is now a tad younger than she should be….

At the Parish Church of St Martin, Kentish Town, Camden
Jun 19 1906 
Henry EDWARDS 44 years Bachelor, Decorator of 1 Vicars Road Father Henry Foale EDWARDS decd, gentleman
Maria DOSWELL 46 years, Spinster  of 1 Vicars Road  Father James Edward DOSWELL, Engineer

Ellen/Helen's age is not constant but her place of birth [Newhaven, Sussex] is and the occupation hospital nurse would tie in with her owning a convalescant home in Vic.
1861 born c1857
1881 born c1860
1886 born c1866
1886 Marriage cert....this would be useful.
1914 born c1861
1946 born c1854

Quote
An ELLEN DOSWELL  birth was registered in Southhampton in 1845 which matches closely with her age in the trove notification which agrees with her age at death making it highly unlikley that she is Nella's birth mother.
Robyn

I can't find the trove notification that indicates a birth c1845.  She died in 1946 aged 92 years which indicates a birth c1854.  I cannot find a birth registration for Ellen on freebdm and the only registration c1857 in Lewes, Sussex is for an Elizabeth Emily.  Unfortunately people do change their given names ;)

This appears to be the baptism for the Ellen born 1845 Southampton.

DOSWELL Ellen
Born 1845
Baptised 8 Oct 1845 at Southampton, Hampshire England
Father Richard Doswell  Mother Sarah Sophia

George this will really interest you  ;D

Mercury Hobart Saturday 22 June 1901
Departures
Warrimoo, s.a., 3,326 tons, H. J. Richardson, for Melbourne.
Passengers Saloon: Madame Wendlandt; Misses Turnbull, Gill; Mrs. Back; Masters Jamieson, Franz.

Perhaps there were two adopted/fostered daughters. 

For completion on Helen's life.

From arrival in May 1886 - 1914
Lived in
South Yarra 7 months
Moonee Ponds 18 months
Various addresses in City of Melbourne 6/7 years
Brighton 7 years
Paradise Valley 18 years - this would be Menzies Creek

Australian Electoral Roll
1909 already posted
1914
WENDLANDT Helen Janet Menzies Creek  HD

1919, 1924, 1931, 1936, 1937, 1942
WENDLANDT Franz  Clematis   Orchardist
WENDLANDT Helen Janet  Menzies Creek  HD

Helen is buried at
Emerald Cemetery
WENDLANDT Helen Janet  92 years
Location   H 305  Area   [EM]H-H

I think she was born 1857 and the age on the shipping record should be 30 not 20. The 1861 census is probably the closest to her true age. 

Cheers
Cando

 









Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Sunday 13 May 12 09:49 BST (UK)
Hi Cando, & all other researchers,

Thankyou for all the time and effort, [probably hours in total], helping me with a very difficult search.

Obviously plenty of information on Bernard & Helen, and I would agree that Nellie was adopted.

Along with my twin brother, having been privately adopted at birth,  I've learnt  if you don't want to be found, it's not very hard to hide your tracks.
[You only have to change your name a couple of times].

Thank-you all once again, I can probably, now lay this post to rest

George
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Sunday 13 May 12 11:08 BST (UK)
George I think this search has been one of the easy ones....the shipping passenger list suggests that Helen travelled with a Miss GILL in 1901 and surely this was 'Nella'.

Thankfully the adoption process was more 'open' from the mid 1970's in Victoria.

Cheers and good luck
Cando

Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Sunday 13 May 12 11:21 BST (UK)
George I have just noticed that you state Nella was born 1902. 

What was her age on the marriage certificate please? 

If she was born in 1902 that certainly puts a spanner in the works. Initially you were seeking birth details between 1900 and 1910.  Her age on the marriage certificate is important to validate what I have found.

Cando
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Sunday 13 May 12 12:29 BST (UK)
Hi cando,

I have just tried posting/attaching  the Marriage Certificate, but it didn't work.

However her age is either 25 or 28, it is very hard to read.

If there is any other way to get the Cert, to you please tell me how.

Regards

George
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: majm on Sunday 13 May 12 12:52 BST (UK)
Do NOT post the image of the whole document Copyright issues for RChat.  Cando offline at the moment.  Instead try taking a snip of that section from your scanned image of the doc so that Cando can see THAT snipped image.  You give the jpeg snipped image a different file name and attach that to your reply.

Cheers JM on e reader aghhhh
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 14 May 12 09:48 BST (UK)
Hi majm,

Have done what you asked, hope it works.

George
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: majm on Monday 14 May 12 09:54 BST (UK)
It works just fine  ;D
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 14 May 12 10:05 BST (UK)
Hi All,

Might be a bit easier to read if it is turned up the right way.

George
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Tuesday 15 May 12 03:15 BST (UK)
Thanks George :) 

Well if Nella actually knew her true dob and was being honest about it, taking into account she was marrying a man aged 25 years, it couldn't have been her with Madame WENDLANDT on the Jun 1901 passenger list.  Perhaps it was her birth mother.  Adoptions prior to 1928 were informal as legislation wasn't passed until c1928 [from memory].    I note that Nella had the same occupation as her 'mother'.  Nella was living at the same address as her husband at the time of their marriage.

Bernard WENDLANDT was reported as being in Tasmania in 1927.   I wonder if he was responsible for the news snippet about his mother which included information about himself.

There is a file on NAA which includes a letter written by Bernard from London re the reinstatement of German nationals property in New Guinea.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Tuesday 15 May 12 04:07 BST (UK)
Hi Cando

After our adoption, my brother and I were borought up in the slums of Prahran in Victoria, [at least they were those days],  and our Primary School education from grades 1-6, were at Hawksburn State School.

Our grade 5 teacher who taught Arithmatic was a teacher by the name of Ms Helen Gill, bit of a coincidence.

George

**Sorry bit more to add**  Hawksburn's boundary links up to South Yarra where Nella was born
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: NoeleenM on Thursday 17 May 12 10:42 BST (UK)
Hi All,

just came across this thread, My Husbands Grandmar is Nella Wendlandt  she married Cyril Vincent,   this is the first he has heard that she is adopted will have to go throw paperwork to see what i can find. the shame of this husband mother passed away only a few weeks ago could have asked her what she knew about her mother

regards

Noel
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: cando on Thursday 17 May 12 10:49 BST (UK)
Hi Noel

Welcome to rootschat :)

Helen WENDLANDT stated she had no children on her naturalization application in 1914.

Perhaps Nella did not tell her family she was adopted and perhaps she thought she was Helen's natural child.  Actually it would have been a informal/private arrangement.

You could purchase her death certificate however the information there would only be as good as the knowledge of the informant.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: NoeleenM on Thursday 17 May 12 10:56 BST (UK)
hi cando,

yes may have the death cert somewhere will see what we find in house clean up, Nella was raised by someone else she was told her parents were musicians and traveled alot, guess Helen could not look after her perhaps when Bernaid left, allthough nella named her daughter after her
Title: Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: NoeleenM on Thursday 17 May 12 22:35 BST (UK)
this has me thinking now maybe Bernaird was the father and the Miss Gill was the mother funny she had Gill on marriage cert and not helen wendlant (but had bernaid Wendlant as father) just hope we come across her birth cert in the clean up
Title: ***COMPLETED*** Re: Birth Date of Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 28 May 12 23:24 BST (UK)
Hi all,

I have just been advised by the family of Nella Wedlandt, that her birth date was the 25th May 1902.

Thank-you to all who have helped in this search.



Regards



George
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: ROCKY 111 on Sunday 04 November 12 09:24 GMT (UK)
George,

I am married to one of Nella's grandchildren and know all 7 grandchildren born to Nella's 3 children with Cyril Roy

I was interested in your connection to the family. Are you from the Vincent side of the family? I am keen to learn more about the Vincent Side of the family. I know that Cyril's parents were Willam Henry and Lilian May.

Have you ascertained whether Nella was adopted? Was Franz a step brother?

Just some more information for you she lived in Launceston from the 60s onwards until she passed away in 1991.

Rocky 111
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: NoeleenM on Sunday 04 November 12 12:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Rocky,

i to am married to one of Nella's grandchildren, i have a little information on the family im guessing your wife is from one of the son's

regards
Noel
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 05 November 12 06:44 GMT (UK)
Hi ROCKY111

Will get back to you shortly., probably a couple of hours.

I was born a Vincent.

Cyril Roy Vincent, was my 1st cousin, once removed.


GeorgeRP
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: sydney researcher on Monday 05 November 12 06:58 GMT (UK)
Hi

I am a relative of Bernard Wendlandt's second wife, Gertrud Winkelmann. I have an interest in finding out more about Bernard Wendlandt , and trying to trace/contact descendents from his daughter by second marriage, Helga (dec), who I believe settled in Victoria sometime after after WW2. 

It does sadden me to to learn on here that Wendlandt does not seem to have been
a good father, after abandoning the children of his first mariage.

In the last few months I have been able to gather quite a lot of info about Bernard Wendlandt. if any one is interested I am happy to pass my info on, feel free to drop me a private message. 

Sydney Researcher
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 05 November 12 07:19 GMT (UK)
Hi ROCKY111,

Please send me a personal message, so that I can give you my e-mail address.



George
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 05 November 12 07:20 GMT (UK)
Sorry ROCKY111

Click on the scroll, next to the square


George
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Monday 05 November 12 09:49 GMT (UK)
Hi ROCKY111,

I've just been informed you have to post 3 messages before you can gain access to the Personal Message Icon.

To all RootsChatters, please advise if I am telling ROCKY111, the wrong information.

Anyway ROCKY, as I stated I am a Vincent by birth. I have acquired  good  accurate records over the years, and do not add anything to my tree which I cannot verify. The Senior's of RootsChatter have been very helpful in achieving this.

You say you are a Grand-Child  of Cyril & Nella. Cyril's father was William, [Deceased],  William was the eldest  brother to my Grand-father, Arthur, [Deceased], the youngest son of 15 children in total.

You are not allowed to give out  any information on living people, but you could say that you are the Grand-daughter  of Nella's eldest/youngest, son or daughter, I will then know where you sit in the family. That will enable me to help you with the information you require, until you make your 3rd posting.

It will make easier when you make your 3rd  post, and have access to the icon, and allow messages to be sent via normal e-mail.

All other information you post, [other than a personal message],   about deceased Ancestors, is available for all to see.

Regards


GeorgeRP
Title: vincents in townsville
Post by: aylwardluke on Friday 09 November 12 06:10 GMT (UK)
GeorgeRP

I am searching for my Edward Vincent in and around brisbane /Toowoomba 1919-1928; ihave found Vincents in Townsville in the 1920s and now know that my Edward Vincent visited Townsville for work at the Council in 1923

In my searching with Trove I have come across much info on vincents in Tasmania but do not know if they might be related to me;

My Edward Vincents mother was Mary Anne Baker; his fathers name is variable!!

Any connection between your vincents in Townsville and mine???

Thanks

Luke Aylward (Mr m Vincent)
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: GeorgeRP on Friday 09 November 12 10:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Luke,

No I don't believe that the Edward Vincent you are looking for is related to myself. As far as I know my line of  Vincent's  never ventured to Toowoomba.

The only connection we have  to Toowoomba is that my Edward Vincent's  wife, Mavis Fisher, spent some time there, although she married in Victoria.

Sorry I cannot be of help.

George
Title: Re: Birth Date of *** COMPLETED*** Nella 'Wendy' Agnus WENDLANDT - Victoria
Post by: Nathie on Monday 10 July 17 07:49 BST (UK)
I don't want to turn everyone on their heads with this, but I found the following today...

I found a Musician Bernhard August Heinrich Wendlandt, born 18th June 1861 in South Africa, to missionary father Heinrich Wilhelm Wendlandt (deceased by 1915) & then re-married mother Elisabeth Louisa Henriette Homann (nee Bensen). His mother remarried a Pastor and was last living in Adelaide, Australia. On the wedding certificate from Berlin in August 1915, it states that Bernhard Heinrich August married Gertrud (Mary) Winkelmann, born 13 Nov 1885 in Bairnsdale, Victoria. She was a singer by profession from Melbourne, born to Heinrich Gustav Alwin Winkelmann (1853-1933) and Maria Woodburn (1854-1937), both living in Melbourne, Victoria in 1915, but both her parents later died in Toowoomba, QLD. The wedding of the two took place on August 30th 1915 in Berlin Germany. I found a copy of his marriage to Gertrud on Ancestry. Did Helen know what became of her husband, I wonder ? His second marriage only lasted 3 years in either case.

There is also an entry of his second wife's death. Gertrud Wendlandt (nee Winkelman) died on 1st Dec 1918 in Berlin Wilmersdorf at home. Her death certificate was undersigned by her husband Bernhard August Heinrich Wendlandt on the 2nd December 1918. Gertrud's sister Florence seems to have died in 1962 in Oakey, QLD as well. I found no record of what became of Bernhard after 1918 in Berlin - yet.