RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tyrone => Topic started by: Andrew C. on Tuesday 24 April 12 16:14 BST (UK)
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Please stick with me on this one.
On the 1901 census there is an Ellen Loughlin boarding with my great grandmother Catherine Loughlin at House 145 Sion Mills. On the 1911 census Ellen with her child Francess Olive Loughlin appears to have gone to live with her sister in law Catherine Loughlin at 27 Main Street, Sion Mills. Who was Francess Olives father?
At 27 Main Street there is also a William Loughlin who I know was in Coatbridge, Scotland in 1912 (Ulster Covenant). My great Aunt Margaretta married a William Loughlin who I am led to believe was a cousin. I know Margaretta, her spouse, my grandmother and more of their siblings end up in Coatbridge so I am presuming this is the William Loughlin Margaretta Loughlin married.
In 1901 Catherine (not my ggrandmother, the other Catherine Loughlin), William plus other children including an eldest son Robert are at House 5 Scotstown, Urney. I mention Robert as my great grandfather was Robert Loughlin as was my great great grandfather.
The thing is I believe my great grandfather only had one brother Samuel who I think married Ellen Aitchison (my great grandmother was Catherine Aitchison, I had put Ellen and Catherine down as cousins, different father on IGI).
So could William and Margaretta be second cousins not cousins? This is just guesswork, dangerous I know. Coincidentally (or perhaps not) at House 142 Sion Mills there is a Jane and Susan Aitchison boarding with a John and Rebecca Loughlin (my grandmother was Rebecca Loughlin), do not know where they fit into the picture.
I don’t really have a point to this post just thought putting it down in writing may make it clearer in my head and perhaps someone might have some observations.
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I've spaced your post into paragraphs to make it easier to read. Starting with the first bit-
On the 1901 census there is an Ellen Loughlin boarding with my great grandmother Catherine Loughlin at House 145 Sion Mills. On the 1911 census Ellen with her child Francess Olive Loughlin appears to have gone to live with her sister in law Catherine Loughlin at 27 Main Street, Sion Mills. Who was Francess Olives father?
1911 census: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Attaclady/Main_Street/847601
Remember that all relationships are given in regard to head of household. According to the census Ellen Loughlin was Catherine's sister-in-law and Francess was Catherine's niece. It does not say that Ellen was the mother of Francess but if she was her mother then Francess would seem to be illegitimate since Ellen wasn't married.
The only way to find out would probably be to get Francess' birth certificate (if illegitimate then you are unlike to get father's name).
Here are the details needed to order the certificate-
Frances Olive Laughlin Apr./June 1901 Strabane registration district volume 2 page 293
1901 census: www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Altaclady/Town_of_Seein_or_Sion_Mills/1751153
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At 27 Main Street there is also a William Loughlin who I know was in Coatbridge, Scotland in 1912 (Ulster Covenant). My great Aunt Margaretta married a William Loughlin who I am led to believe was a cousin. I know Margaretta, her spouse, my grandmother and more of their siblings end up in Coatbridge so I am presuming this is the William Loughlin Margaretta Loughlin married.
How do you know that the William in 1911 census is the same as the Coatbridge one in 1912? Have you checked the 1911 Scottish census just to make sure?
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In 1901 Catherine (not my ggrandmother, the other Catherine Loughlin), William plus other children including an eldest son Robert are at House 5 Scotstown, Urney. I mention Robert as my great grandfather was Robert Loughlin as was my great great grandfather.
1901 census- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Urney__East/Scotstown/1754979
1911 census- www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Attaclady/Main_Street/847601
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Sorry about the lack of paragraphs. It was a bit of a ramble.
The William who signed the Ulster Covenant in Coatbridge in 1912 gave his address as 27 Main Street, Sion Mills. I though it safe to presume that this was the William who was living at 27 Main Street on the 1911 census.
On the 1911 census Francess Olive, as you point out, is down as Catherine’s niece and Ellen Catherine’s sister in law. Again just a presumption but I do think it points to Ellen being Francess’s mother. It does say Ellen is single would it definately have said widowed if her husband had died?
Not writing any of this in stone just trying to get a picture of relationships and the interconnection between the many Loughlins and Aitchison in this part of the word. Don't worry I am not uploading any of it to a tree more of a puzzle I am trying to put together. Hope I haven't wasted your time.
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Hi there,
Just an observation about Frances Olive Loughlin...
For some reason 'back then' the word niece was also used for a granddaughter.
It's possible that Frances Olive was the granddaughter of Catherine ie the daughter of one of Catherine's sons and was just in the house that evening.
Tara
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Had not heard of neice being used for grandaughter before, that's interesting.
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That's why you need to get the birth certificate for Frances that was mentioned earlier.
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Yes, I wouldn't say it was widespread but I have come across it quite a bit.
I was wondering could she have been the daughter of Robert who ended up going to Scotland ?
I suppose you will only know for sure by ordering the birth cert that 'aghadowey' gave you the details for !
Good Luck
Tara
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Yes I appreciate the birth certificate is crucial. Another one to add to the long list.
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Hi, coming a bit late to this thread but I can confirm that there was no father recorded in the Civil birth record of Frances Olive Laughlin, birth recorded Newtownstewart RD 1901, mother Ellen Laughlin, no father recorded
Regards
Joe
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Thanks Joe
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Hi from Australia. My great aunt Annie nee Whiteside was married to Willie loughlin who was given the freedom of coatbridge after becoming a ww1 hero. I don't know dates of birth but would have to be late 1800s. After the war they ran a fish and chip shop probably in coatbridge. They never had children. Maybe Willie was the son of William. Hope this helps. Brenda
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A different William Loughlin although there maybe a connection if your Willie is from Tyrone. The William I referred to married Margaretta and did have a son William however William junior was blind. There are a few Loughlins in Coatbridge as there are in Tyrone not sure how they all connect though.
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I am a direct descendant of the Loughlins, Sion Mills, Co Tyrone. I have done a lot of research. William Loughlin is one of 6 brothers (William,Alexander,James,Charles,John, Robert) I am related to Robert Loughlin 1858-1895. My GGGrandfather. I don't know anything else about William. Robert & Catherine had 9 children Sarah(1877-1903),Robert(1879-1933), Elizabeth1883-1934, Samuel(1884-1948), Isobel (bella)(1887-1967), Rebecca(1890-1957), Margaret(1892-1946), Thomas(1894-1910) and Annie(1896-1919). Samuel 1884-1948 is my GGrandfather who moved to Greenend, Coatbridge. Samuel is the only loughlin who moved from Sion Mills, Co Tyrone, Ireland to Coatbridge Scotland. Samuel & Rebecca had 3 children. James, Robert, Annie. Annie (1924-1982) is the only Annie I have found. Hope this helps some!
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Hi Lisa
Sorry for the late reply just noticed your post.
I am a bit confused by your post however. You say William Loughlin is one of 6 brothers (William, Alexander, James, Charles, John and Robert) What William are you referring to? I was under the impression that the Robert Loughlin who married Catherine Aitchison was the son of Robert and Margaret (perhaps Loughlin) and this Robert was the son of Samuel, which I got from family search. And going by the baptism records of Urney Parish church I thought Roberts siblings where Margaret, Mary, Samuel and Isabella. As mentioned previously there are lots of Loughlins in this area with similar names and lots of intermarriage, so I may be wrong.
Not sure why you are saying your grandfather Samuel Loughlin was the only one to move from Tyrone to Scotland. All of the siblings apart from Jane and Thomas who both died in Tyrone at a young age came to Scotland. Even Jane’s son Robert Hyndman and his half brother William Hyndman came to Scotland. Robert lived in Johnstone, Renfrewshire and the rest in the Coatbridge area. As you say Annie died young also. Elizabeth, Margaretta, Samuel and Robert where married in Tyrone and Becky and Bella where married in Scotland.
I am sure I have a picture of your grandfather, my father, their cousin Bobby Loughin and their aunt Bella taken at Deeds Street, Coatdyke in the 1950’s, if you wish I will try and upload it.
Andrew
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Hi, I have recently been looking up my family tree on my fathers side. His name was James loughlin 19/01/43
He has a sister Helen and a brother sammy. His mum was Elizabeth McLean and his father was also James loughlin. Hope to hear from anyone like :)
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Hi Julia,
Where were your Loughlin's from?
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My dad was from Coatbridge
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My dad was from Coatbridge
Scottish birth certificate list date and place of parents' marriage. You can then look up your grandparents' marriage to find their parents' names, etc. Census records will also help (latest available is 1911)
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
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Just looking at Lisa's post again, she is saying she is descended from the Samuel Loughlin in Urney in 1911 (who is my grans brother) he has a son James could James be your grandfather? This is just speculating. Is there a link to Tyrone hence why you looked on this board? There where a few Tyrone loughlins in Coatbridge. Do you know if your family were Episcopalians?
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Yeah the tyrone thing is something I just found out through a member on the ancestry site. I believe Samuel is my great grandfather and James was my grandfather who had 3 children sammy, Helen and James
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Yeah the tyrone thing is something I just found out through a member on the ancestry site. I believe Samuel is my great grandfather and James was my grandfather who had 3 children sammy, Helen and James
You really do need to verify everything (especially if the details you've found on Ancestry are from one of the family trees). With Scottish records it should be fairly straightforward to check if Samuel is indeed your great-grandfather.
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As Aghadowey says you need to confirm your grandparents. If there is a connection to my tree I believe Lisa (other post) is your cousin once removed her grandfather being Samuel who went to Australia. You grandad and my dad would be cousins, I think?
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Even Jane’s son Robert Hyndman and his half brother William Hyndman came to Scotland. Robert lived in Johnstone, Renfrewshire and the rest in the Coatbridge area.
Hi Andrew,
This is my first post here and I don't use message boards much, so please accept my apologies if I haven't got the hang of this...….
Would you know if Jane Loughlin referred to above in your post is the person who married John Hyndman (labourer, widower) on 3rd September 1858 at Urney Parish Church? This person could be my 3xggf re-married?
The Hyndman surname in unusual in itself but to find one in roughly the same area, with the same forename, occupation and status as my 3xggf increases the chances of this John Hyndman being the same person?
I ask because my 3xggf, John Hyndman had (as far as I know) three sons with Helen Wilson, her date of death is unknown but bef.1867. The three sons moved to Scotland, Andrew (my 2xggf) and Joseph moved to Johnstone and William moved to Charles Street, Glasgow. By 1887 their father John Hyndman had died, but exact year of death not known) and in 1891 both Joseph and William in Johnstone died three months apart. I know from my research that John Hyndman did not move to Scotland with them as I unable to find a record of his death on www.scotlandspeople and I have extensively searched there.
I do also know from Poor Law applications made that Joseph and William were born in Sion Mills (between 1851 and 1853) which is close to Urney. I also know of a Robert Hyndman who lived on the next street to my Hyndman's in Johnstone. I can't yet find a link, if there is one to my Hyndman's as I found that he married Annie Edgar in 1890 at Douglas Bridge and his father was Robert Hyndman, not John Hyndman. I assume that this is not the same Robert Hyndman that you refer to?
It's also interesting that you mention a half-brother, William moving to Coatbride, not far from Glasgow.
If you are able to add anymore information to my enquiry that would be wonderful and hopefully I will hear from you soon?
Kind Regards,
Andrew Hyndman.
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Hi Andrew.
Wrong generation I am afraid. My Jane married William Hyndman around 1898. I had previously noticed the marriage you refer to when looking at Tyrone records, I am sure there is a connection not sure where. There is a lot of intermarriage with the Loughlins so a lot of common names I see what else I can find out.
Andrew
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Hi Andrew
I found this forum chat by chance on google and think we may be linked through the Laughlin line as a lot of names and places seem to match. Do you know if any of your Laughlin ladies married to anyone with the surname Bustard?
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Sorry meant Loughlin, spellcheck is a pest sometimes!
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Sorry for the late reply Ian I have not been on for a while. Yes, my Gran's sister Elizabeth married Robert Bustard.
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A belated welcome to RootsChat :)
Do you know if any of your Laughlin ladies married to anyone with the surname Bustard?
Yes, my Gran's sister Elizabeth married Robert Bustard.
Robert BUSTARD to Lizzie LAUGHLIN on 19th January 1906 in Strabane R.D.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10114/5680425.pdf
Robert and Lizzie in 1911 census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Attaclady/New_Street/847648/
KG
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Thanks Kiltaglassan I notice that the witnesses were another sister Bella and a brother in law William Hyndman. William was married to another sister Sarah who died in 1903.