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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: chanel on Saturday 28 April 12 06:44 BST (UK)
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Hello Everybody,
The 1891 Census found one of my ancestors at "Vauxhall Street, Manchester" - he was a "General Warehouseman" at that time.
There is a present-day "Vauxhall Street", a short street apparently unoccupied and unused, that comes off Collyhurst Road in an area to the north of Manchester CBD. This seems to be a large, open area typical of a former heavy industrial site such as cotton mill, paper mill, heavy engineering. I notice a waterway nearby, also.
I wonder if anyone has any knowledge of the history of activity in this area. There are certainly no houses in or close to Vauxhall Street now, I don't think, but that doesn't necessarily mean there weren't any back in 1890. Would appreciate any bits of information.
Chanel.
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Tabberner Thomas & Co Ltd had a factory there.
This snippet is from an 1898 directory http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lnp/
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There was also the Ebenezer Works - a tarpaulin factory - that is listed in the 1891 census at the end of Vauxhall Street. This belonged to John Blackwell & Co.
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I don't see a "general warehouseman" in the census for Vauxhall Street, Collyhurst Road ( I am looking at RG12/3249 folios 41 and 42 pages 6 and 7) - what was your man's name?
There's a James Duff in Upper Vauxhall Street, a jobbing warehouseman... is that him? (RG12/3249 folio 71 page 13)
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Sorry everyone - I've stuffed-up the date for this one - it should be 1881, not 1891.
The job description is "Home Trade Warehouseman"- his name is Edward T Mammatt.
Chanel
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If you look at the occupations of the other people listed in the 1881 census pages for Vauxhall Street it will give you a good idea of the kind of neighbourhood it was. There are warehousemen, foundry workers, mill workers, leather workers, oil sheet workers, dressmakers and embroiderers, a smith, a butcher, a baker, a gas mantle maker.
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On the Godfrey map of NE Manchester, 1891, it shows the Ebenezer works taking up about half the south side of Vauxhall St. The north side follows the edge of the 'Old Quarry' which extends quite a way up Collyhurst Road. I presume this is one of the quarries where Collyhurst Sandstone came from?
There is also a rope walk along the north side. To the west is Collyhurst Road and the River Irk, and beyond that a large railway carriage shed. A footbridge crossing the river and railway leads to an old clay pit.
The Vauxhall Iron works are to the east of Vauxhall St, but a few streets away, the other side of Rochdale Road. Nearest church is St Catherines C.E. St Patricks on Livesey St is the nearest RC church.
:) Barbara
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Thank you both for this great information.
Shaun, you make a good point.
Barbara, all this from a map?!!
Just one more thing, please. Do you think I can assume that this Vauxhall Street is the one referred to in the 1881 Census record for Edward T Mammatt - if so, then that back in those days, Vauxhall Street must have had houses in it? Not a terribly nice place to live!!
Chanel.
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Link to Godfrey Maps website and shop
http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/lancs10407.htm
Cannot praise these maps too highly! Massively good value at only £2.50 each and very reasonable postage
It does seem to correspond with your Edward Mammettt's address - probably the best thing to say about it is there would be plenty of employment opportunities, but it would be a heavily industrial environment
:) Barbara
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Sorry, Barbara, I'm still not 100% clear - were there houses in Vauxhall Street on your map?
Chanel.
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Sorry, Barbara, I'm still not 100% clear - were there houses in Vauxhall Street on your map?
Chanel.
Yes. I've just noticed that Vauxhall St was a lot longer then than it is now. If you were standing on Collyhurst Rd looking along Vauxhall St in 1891, there would be the quarry on your left, and a few buildings on your right followed by the Ebenezer tarpaulin works. Then you would reach Sand St which in those days went right across Vauxhall St.
Crossing over Sand St (now renamed Dalton St), Vauxhall St continued straight across until you got to Rhoda St (now called Hamerton Rd) and there were a lot of houses between Sand St and Rhoda St, on either side of the road. I think your Edward Mammatt would have lived at this end of Vauxhall St, not the Collyhurst Road end.
On the present-day maps there are two tower blocks on that end of Vauxhall St, and the original line of the road has vanished.
Online map from 1930 here
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=055-cr14&cid=-1#-1
click square 2C, then look for Vauxhall St crossing between squares 1a and 1b, it will probably become clear!
:) Barbara
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Thanks for the link, Barbara, I've found Vauxhall Street on the map and, together with the other details you've let me have, it's given me a wonderful insight into this bit of Edward's life. Thank you for taking my query on board.
Just by the way, it cost me $A10.38 delivered here to Melbourne, for one of the Old Ordnance Survey Maps, so you see how lucky you are being on the spot and getting them for two pounds fifty.
Thank you again.
Chanel
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Something else to bear in mind, if you are trying to get a picture of the area at the time, is that a lot of the streets/roads running off Collyhurst Rd were on a slope. There is quite a drop from Rochdale Rd down to Collyhurst Rd., on account of the River Irk.
Even a lot of the houses further up Collyhurst Rd. were on a slope, with steep drops at the back of the houses.
They just built houses on any bit of land that was near to the factories.
Eric
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Thanks for that observation, Eric. As well, it seems logical that cottages in this sort of location, would have disappeared when the surrounding industries disappeared. The area has not been redeveloped for housing or for anything else, it seems. Maybe its too unfriendly!!
Edward T Mammatt and his wife, Mary Alice, occupied the cottage at12 Vauxhall Street in 1881 but by 1891, they had moved to 92 St Oswalds Grove, Manchester. This address seems to have been in the same vicinity because a couple of streets before the Census taker reached St Oswalds Grove, he was in (what must have been nearby) Rochdale Road. I haven't been able to spot this address in Barbara's map, though.
Chanel
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Hi Chanel
I think 'Cottage' would have been a bit quaint. More like pokey terraced houses, in cobbled street with a little back yard-if they were lucky.
Like you say, 'too unfriendly' by today's standards.
St Oswald's Grove was a crescent off Rochdale Rd., almost opposite St Oswald's Street, just before Churnet St.
Eric
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Thank you for those details, Eric - I now have St Oswald's Grove just about pinpointed on my map. Gurnet Street is still there - a useful guide. This area seems to have been redeveloped as a big housing estate in recent times.No doubt the old dwellings(!) in the area were a pretty crummy lot, worthy only of demolition in later years.
Well, thanks to you folk, I now have a wonderful "picture" of part of the life of Edward T Mammatt, an ancestor whose very existence I knew nothing of six years ago! His wife, Mary Alice, "disappeared"after the 1891 Census and he did likewise after the 1901 census, so I've a couple of brick walls to surmount before I can put finis to this ancestor.
Chanel
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Hello Chanel
The nephew on Edward Mammatt's 1891 census became my grandfather.
I could tell you what happened, if you're interested.
All the best
Moonglow
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Hello Moonglow,
It's nice to hear from you - thank you for your contribution. Just to be clear on what I think you're referring to.
The "nephew" in the 1891 Census entry for the Edward T Mammatt family was Edward Sankey, aged 3, nephew of Mary Alice Mammatt (Sankey). Also. said nephew appeared to be the one who was listed as an orphanage resident in 1901 Census. I don't know anything further about him.
Is this consistent with the information you have? Whatever, I'd be delighted to hear about what you do have. Is this board the right place for us to do this??
Regards.
Chanel.
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Dear Chanel
There's a London music book publisher called RoganHouse.
Drop an email to them - the girl there knows the story.
All the best
Moonglow
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Thanks Moonglow - I'll chase it up.
Chanel
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I am trying to find the grave of WW1 soldier Peter Archibald who died on 27 Sept 1916 in Huddersfield after service with 12th Royal Fusiliers. No trace found of Huddersfield burial. However, the 1911 Census shows an Archibald family, including a Peter Archibald, at 92 St Oswald's Grove, Rochdale Road, Manchester. Does this ring a bell with anybody?
This research is being done on behalf of the In From the Cold Project.
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You have the right family, Trevalyn:
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Thank you, ShaunJ. No trace of him in Manchester City Council burial records. Any suggestions for Church graveyards in the St Oswald's Grove vicinity?
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I wonder if the family were Catholic?
I was going to suggest Moston Cemetery but he is not mentioned on CWGC site for there :-\
https://www.cwgc.org/find/find-war-dead/results/?cemetery=MOSTON+(ST.+JOSEPH%27S)+ROMAN+CATHOLIC+CEMETERY&fq_warliteral=1&fq_servedinliteral=Army&csort=surname&tab=wardead
Sorry, I can’t get ‘shrink link’ to work.
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Thanks, Heywood. I have no info. on religion but I think the family may indeed well have been Catholic. Not currently listed by CWGC as a War Grave - for whatever reason. I will make direct contact with St Joseph's. In the meantime, all other suggestions will be gratefully received.
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CWGC shows him listed on the Brookwood Memorial but no other details.
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Thank you, Heywood and ShaunJ. I have located Peter Archibald's grave in St Joseph's, Moston. really appreciate your help.
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That’s super - and so quick.
I am really pleased for you.
Heywood