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Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: J. Hemsley on Wednesday 02 May 12 10:07 BST (UK)
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So far the suggestions are as follows: Crane, stork, heron, magpie, raven, crow, great bustard, pigeon. Also, there was a suggestion that the tail looks like that of a ‘barn swallow’.
Personally, I have absolutely no idea at all…I thought it looks a little like a female pheasant.
Other suggestions?
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Previous topic on Deciphering and Recognition Help: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,594913.0.html
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Hi Prue,
Should I not have re-posted this? I wasn’t sure whether folks who read the ‘Heraldry…’ thread necessarily also read the ‘Deciphering…’ thread? Trying to cast a wider net, I suppose.
To the other rootschatters (including Prue):
Does anyone have a comprehensive heraldic library, and the willingness, to help me in searching for a ‘Hemsley’ armiger. Possibly with a bird (of some sort) crest :-\
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From the tail and tips of wings - I think the bird is a swift. I can't find any heraldic coats of arms with just one bird on it but I noticed when surfing the county that quite a few mentions of the swift appeared in the results.
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From the tail and tips of wings - I think the bird is a swift. I can't find any heraldic coats of arms with just one bird on it but I noticed when surfing the county that quite a few mentions of the swift appeared in the results.
Given that the bird appears to be standing atop a torse or wreath, I suspect that this is a crest and not a coat of arms. If I get the chance, I'll try looking through Fairbairn's a little later.
David
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Going through my 1905 copy of Fairbairn's looking for similar birds, and taking my main clues from the length of the legs (longer than many birds) and length of the neck (not so long as a heron's or stork's, but longer than a swallow's, pigeon's or crow's), I think the bird is a bustard (see Plate 102.9, below), which Fairbairn assigns to the Getham family.
This identification is, of course, tentative, because we cannot know how accurately the artist who carved the matrix for the seal followed the model.
David
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Hi Prue,
Should I not have re-posted this? I wasn’t sure whether folks who read the ‘Heraldry…’ thread necessarily also read the ‘Deciphering…’ thread? Trying to cast a wider net, I suppose.
Reposting is fine - it's just always good to let people know what work has already been done (whether or not it seems directly relevant) ;)
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I think it may be a Dove. There are plenty of examples of this bird featuring just in the Crest rather than the Coat of Arms.
This one belonging to Robert Barkley bears a striking resemblence:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7102/6974963202_31616f276e_c.jpg
Regards,
Matt T.
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I've been comparing the bird on this seal with some examples of birds in The British Herald by Thomas Robson (1830):
Bustard (plate10 fig.48), Crane (pl 11, fig. 39) Dove (pl 12, fig. 15) & Raven (pl 11, fig. 58) all from the following :
https://archive.org/stream/britishheraldor01robsgoog#page/n340/mode/2up
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Though I've determined that the seal's bird most resembles the bird from plate 19 fig. 64. Though frustratingly, that bird is not named so I cannot identify it, again it comes from the above source. What do you think?
Are they the same? And what bird is pl 19, fig. 16 (remember it's not a crane/stork, bustard, dove nor raven)?
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Could it be a ring-dove, or a pigeon?
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I am currently identifying a seal and whether it will help me or not confirm ancestry, as I've been stuck around 200 years ago, with an earlier birth of about 1785-1787.
Fairbairn's Crests is the only one I could find, with drawings in a 2nd volume, fortunately it is searchable online, with a downloadable large PDF.
Volume 1 with Descriptions and part of the Plates Index
https://ia601407.us.archive.org/34/items/fairbairnsbookof01fair/fairbairnsbookof01fair.pdf
Volume 2 with other part of Plates Index and Plates of the Crests
https://archive.org/stream/FairbairnsBookOfCrestsV2#page/n29/mode/2up/search/Coe
In the Plates Index the first number denotes the Plate and second number relates to the Crest.
All the best Mark